[Barron]

Not sure what the bid deal is about Trump on this forum.
Thought we would have learned by now that any person receiving mainstream coverage is in league with the status quo.

Ron Paul, for example, was the first candidate in a long time who opposed the current system and planned to disrupt the narrative.
Thus the mainstream ignored Ron Paul because his success would have meant a loss of control to the status quo dependent individuals who own and operate mainstream programming.

Rest assured that any person who is featured on major television networks, depicted as controversial or not, is given air time because they support a "mainstream approved" narrative, regardless of the politics they preach.

[rpg]

(07-02-2015 05:55 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 03:59 PM)rpg Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 03:16 PM)Baldwin81 Wrote:  

Pretty slick what Trump did with Univision. He understands that Republican Primary voters are disillusioned with how the party handles immigration. The GOP base goes fucking bonkers over immigration and he'll now be able to motherfuck everyone by saying they don't plan on doing anything about it. He's staking out some of his own territory since he also knows that he'll never been seen as Jesus-loving enough by the evangelicals.

I agree with Its_my_time, Trump will make this Republican primary as entertaining as it's ever been.

He knows he isnt going to win but he is going to accumulate alot of power. I hope he fucks NBC and Univision so hard he gets his campaign paid for through their breach of contracts. They fell right into his trap. Funny thing is the latino sjw's think they are next after gay marriage. Aint gonna happen. This is an issue both sides of the aisle love to have smoldering on the fence forever.

Whose trap? What are you talking about? Trump is getting his ass kicked right now and rightfully so. This has nothing to do with SJW's and everything to do with Trump being a nut-job and an idiot. Pissing off the fastest growing demographic in the country isn't wise and stupid. Its one thing to say that you're against illegal immigration, its another to paint a whole community and immigrants as a whole as "rapists" and "drug dealers," shit he even said "I assume some are good people." What you guys expect was going to happen? This isn't about Hispanics becoming the next "gay marriage", its about self-respect and not letting a guy come into a community and get rich off them especially when he things they're all rapists.

I find his stance on immigration odd since his hypocrite ass was once sued for hiring illegal immigrants to build his towers in Chicago and New York. Polish and Mexican ones.
Link

Kudos to my hermanos over at Univision and Telemundo for realizing this and not letting this fool get more rich off us. Not a penny more and my hats off to Roselyn Sanchez and the other male co-hosts who quit on the spot for the Miss USA pageant. This basically caused a trickle-down affect where you had NBC and Macy's cutting ties and even Carlos Slim coming in and ending all business with Chump!

On the real, his comments were all kinds of butt-hurt and bitterness over Carlos Slim (A Mexican) beating his ass financially. When Trump says "Mexico is beating us economically" he's basically saying "Carlos Slim is beating ME economically"

Trump is a tool and even with all of this he is pretending to be all cocky saying "I'm going to sue!" Univision pretty much laughed at his "lawsuit." No one is taking his threats seriously.
Link


I think he should just step down from the race. Even with all his money, saying that immigrants are rapists is not worth approximately $200,000 million dollars that he will lose as a result from all of this.


Trump pinatas are selling like Hot Cakes in Mexico.



Link


Edit: I just saw a Donald Trump pinata outside a Mexican store coming back from work. I might actually go buy one to support the cause. I'm not watching "The Apprentice", "Miss USA" or "Miss Universe". Screw Trump.

I honestly dont think even Trump thinks he has a chance. He is chumming the waters. Drawing out Univision, other media and retail is an exercise in waking up America that big media and corporate interests are hell bent on influencing the election as much as possible. Trump is done. But he is like a burning monk generating awareness.

[Alpharius]

(07-02-2015 06:15 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

Not sure what the bid deal is about Trump on this forum.
Thought we would have learned by now that any person receiving mainstream coverage is in league with the status quo.

Ron Paul, for example, was the first candidate in a long time who opposed the current system and planned to disrupt the narrative.
Thus the mainstream ignored Ron Paul because his success would have meant a loss of control to the status quo dependent individuals who own and operate mainstream programming.

Rest assured that any person who is featured on major television networks, depicted as controversial or not, is given air time because they support a "mainstream approved" narrative, regardless of the politics they preach.

It's not so much a political "approved" decision as it is a business decision. If you want to reach the largest audience you want to express something a large viewers can relate to, not a perennial fringe candidate talking about things most viewers are unconcerned with.

[It_is_my_time]

(07-02-2015 06:16 PM)rpg Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 05:55 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 03:59 PM)rpg Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 03:16 PM)Baldwin81 Wrote:  

Pretty slick what Trump did with Univision. He understands that Republican Primary voters are disillusioned with how the party handles immigration. The GOP base goes fucking bonkers over immigration and he'll now be able to motherfuck everyone by saying they don't plan on doing anything about it. He's staking out some of his own territory since he also knows that he'll never been seen as Jesus-loving enough by the evangelicals.

I agree with Its_my_time, Trump will make this Republican primary as entertaining as it's ever been.

He knows he isnt going to win but he is going to accumulate alot of power. I hope he fucks NBC and Univision so hard he gets his campaign paid for through their breach of contracts. They fell right into his trap. Funny thing is the latino sjw's think they are next after gay marriage. Aint gonna happen. This is an issue both sides of the aisle love to have smoldering on the fence forever.

Whose trap? What are you talking about? Trump is getting his ass kicked right now and rightfully so. This has nothing to do with SJW's and everything to do with Trump being a nut-job and an idiot. Pissing off the fastest growing demographic in the country isn't wise and stupid. Its one thing to say that you're against illegal immigration, its another to paint a whole community and immigrants as a whole as "rapists" and "drug dealers," shit he even said "I assume some are good people." What you guys expect was going to happen? This isn't about Hispanics becoming the next "gay marriage", its about self-respect and not letting a guy come into a community and get rich off them especially when he things they're all rapists.

I find his stance on immigration odd since his hypocrite ass was once sued for hiring illegal immigrants to build his towers in Chicago and New York. Polish and Mexican ones.
Link

Kudos to my hermanos over at Univision and Telemundo for realizing this and not letting this fool get more rich off us. Not a penny more and my hats off to Roselyn Sanchez and the other male co-hosts who quit on the spot for the Miss USA pageant. This basically caused a trickle-down affect where you had NBC and Macy's cutting ties and even Carlos Slim coming in and ending all business with Chump!

On the real, his comments were all kinds of butt-hurt and bitterness over Carlos Slim (A Mexican) beating his ass financially. When Trump says "Mexico is beating us economically" he's basically saying "Carlos Slim is beating ME economically"

Trump is a tool and even with all of this he is pretending to be all cocky saying "I'm going to sue!" Univision pretty much laughed at his "lawsuit." No one is taking his threats seriously.
Link


I think he should just step down from the race. Even with all his money, saying that immigrants are rapists is not worth approximately $200,000 million dollars that he will lose as a result from all of this.


Trump pinatas are selling like Hot Cakes in Mexico.



Link


Edit: I just saw a Donald Trump pinata outside a Mexican store coming back from work. I might actually go buy one to support the cause. I'm not watching "The Apprentice", "Miss USA" or "Miss Universe". Screw Trump.

I honestly dont think even Trump thinks he has a chance. He is chumming the waters. Drawing out Univision, other media and retail is an exercise in waking up America that big media and corporate interests are hell bent on influencing the election as much as possible. Trump is done. But he is like a burning monk generating awareness.

Trump is kicking ass and taking names. I have no clue if he is serious about being President, but I do know he loves attention and he is getting tons of it. And Univision and NBC look like buffoons, even more so if they lose in court over taking a stand for illegal immigration and the violence that comes with it.

There is a huge silent majority that Trump is speaking for on this issue. Most Republicans and it appears all Democrats hide on the issue and do nothing, as more and more Americans and people trying to come here illegal get badly hurt.

My brother put it best. He has talked to quite a few people he has known his whole life who rarely talk politics and he was not even sure of their stances on politics. They can't stop talking about Trump.

[Hotwheels]

(07-02-2015 06:53 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Trump is kicking ass and taking names. I have no clue if he is serious about being President, but I do know he loves attention and he is getting tons of it. And Univision and NBC look like buffoons, even more so if they lose in court over taking a stand for illegal immigration and the violence that comes with it.

There is a huge silent majority that Trump is speaking for on this issue. Most Republicans and it appears all Democrats hide on the issue and do nothing, as more and more Americans and people trying to come here illegal get badly hurt.

My brother put it best. He has talked to quite a few people he has known his whole life who rarely talk politics and he was not even sure of their stances on politics. They can't stop talking about Trump.

WAYYYY too many people think Twitter and Reddit are representative of the general American populace.

All they do is give a minority opinion a very large sounding board while promoting the hivemind.

[It_is_my_time]

(07-02-2015 07:13 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 06:53 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Trump is kicking ass and taking names. I have no clue if he is serious about being President, but I do know he loves attention and he is getting tons of it. And Univision and NBC look like buffoons, even more so if they lose in court over taking a stand for illegal immigration and the violence that comes with it.

There is a huge silent majority that Trump is speaking for on this issue. Most Republicans and it appears all Democrats hide on the issue and do nothing, as more and more Americans and people trying to come here illegal get badly hurt.

My brother put it best. He has talked to quite a few people he has known his whole life who rarely talk politics and he was not even sure of their stances on politics. They can't stop talking about Trump.

WAYYYY too many people think Twitter and Reddit are representative of the general American populace.

All they do is give a minority opinion a very large sounding board while promoting the hivemind.

I wish there was a counter boycott for people to stop watching NBC, Univision or shop at Macy's. And maybe there is or will be. But I rarely watch TV and would never watch a shitty network like NBC unless some huge sporting event was on their like the Super Bowl. I would never watch Univision and I would never waste money shopping at Macy's.

[Samseau]

People here aren't seeing the big picture. When someday America breaks apart post-bankruptcy, the Trump family will have the political and financial clout to rule a part of the USA.

No matter what happens, win or lose the election, the Trump family wins.

[Eskhander]

(07-02-2015 07:52 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

No matter what happens, win or lose the election, the Trump family wins.

Can't trump the Trump!

[Easy_C]

(07-02-2015 07:13 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 06:53 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

Trump is kicking ass and taking names. I have no clue if he is serious about being President, but I do know he loves attention and he is getting tons of it. And Univision and NBC look like buffoons, even more so if they lose in court over taking a stand for illegal immigration and the violence that comes with it.

There is a huge silent majority that Trump is speaking for on this issue. Most Republicans and it appears all Democrats hide on the issue and do nothing, as more and more Americans and people trying to come here illegal get badly hurt.

My brother put it best. He has talked to quite a few people he has known his whole life who rarely talk politics and he was not even sure of their stances on politics. They can't stop talking about Trump.

WAYYYY too many people think Twitter and Reddit are representative of the general American populace.

All they do is give a minority opinion a very large sounding board while promoting the hivemind.

I can second the favorable impressions.......I'm in a rural area for the summer and a lot of people out here who don't even know what an internet forum is are loving the guy.

[lavidaloca]

Lets be real. Trump will never win because too many voters won't ever take him seriously. Your president will be Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton. How many woman do you think will actually vote for Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton? 10% maybe?

Hes a great businessman but not someone I'd want to run the country.

[It_is_my_time]

(07-02-2015 09:36 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

Lets be real. Trump will never win because too many voters won't ever take him seriously. Your president will be Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton. How many woman do you think will actually vote for Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton? 10% maybe?

Hes a great businessman but not someone I'd want to run the country.

I can understand you saying he probably would not win an election because running on the brutal truth doesn't win the popularity contest.

But would you really rather have Bernie the socialist Sanders, Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush or Marco "H-1B sell out" Rubio running the country over Trump? We know everyone else will give us another 4/8 years of the same failed policies and same feminist disaster.

[TheNinja]

(06-18-2015 12:00 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

DeepDiver literally dove deep into this myriad.

And...there isn't much I can't disagree on his essay - I might of changed my mind.

That was a GREAT breakdown.

(06-19-2015 12:45 PM)captain_shane Wrote:  

The thing I liked in his speech was adding a 35% tariff to companies making products overseas and selling them here like ford. I really like his fiscal ideas, but his foreign policy is a bit worrying.

I'm a Chinese dude educated in the states, so let me play the devil's advocate here and show you the other side of the coin.

I think people underestimate how cheap overseas products help the day to day lives of Americans.

For example, If you force Apple to make products in the US, and then tax hell out of foreign competitors like Samsung, mobile phones will be so expensive in the US people won't get to afford it. I know you guys aren't worried about that because America will have an influx of jobs for manufacturing.

But this is where it gets really tricky. People don't realize that because of the globalization, 40-50% of the revenues of many American companies (Fortune 500 and NY listed companies) are already from overseas.

Apple makes 36% of their revenues in America, rest is overseas. That's a staggering number, 64%.

If Apple iPhones are manufactured in the states, they will become more expensive. Let's say the cost of an iphone increases 20% to $1000 per phone, in the US you will just tax foreign competitors like the Samsungs and the Motorola to be $1000 too. Apple can still compete in the US.

But Apple will get absolutely destroyed in other markets Asia (25%) and Europe (25%). Samsung phones will still be manufactured in China and will remain cheap. Foreign companies will absolutely destroy American companies overseas. You're going to kill your export market. This is why economic protectionism was abolished in the 90's.

American companies will especially hammered in places where Trump starts an economic war with, like India, Japan, Mexico, or China. They will ban these companies from selling there. Don't think these guys will just keep taking punches. They are big markets with many consumer spending power. The old frame work where our countries are just slave labors isn't very true anymore. The buying power of developing countries are growing every year. In less than 10 years most big American companies will make more from overseas than the US. Globalization will make all of us interdependent to each other.

Instead of protectionism like this, I think the right way to go about this for America is fixing the corporate tax system to avoid foreign safe havens. The corporate taxes are too high and nobody ever pays it. It's ridiculous. In HKG the taxes are like 10% and everybody pays it. You can use the tax money to pay off debt.

Lastly, I've always liked Mark Cuban's economic approach of pushing for small and medium sized business owners. Give them incentives, tax breaks or subsidies and have them replace big chains, especially in the service and retail industry. More entrepreneurship is needed in this country. That in my opinion is how America can live in this era of globalization. What you want to change here are the reliance to retailers than really dont bring any innovative value.

I want to stress out too that through out history, countries closing their borders have always collapsed. In 1950, check what happened with Mao and China. See how different it is when they opened up their borders. Japan has the same story before industrialization (Tokugawa shogunate and Meiji restoration right after). If the US becomes more protectionist, I think in 10 years it will re-open its borders and it will find American companies and products subordinate to Germans, Japanese and even the Chinese.

[Hotwheels]

(07-03-2015 05:09 AM)TheNinja Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 12:00 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

DeepDiver literally dove deep into this myriad.

And...there isn't much I can't disagree on his essay - I might of changed my mind.

That was a GREAT breakdown.

(06-19-2015 12:45 PM)captain_shane Wrote:  

The thing I liked in his speech was adding a 35% tariff to companies making products overseas and selling them here like ford. I really like his fiscal ideas, but his foreign policy is a bit worrying.

I'm a Chinese dude educated in the states, so let me play the devil's advocate here and show you the other side of the coin.

I think people underestimate how cheap overseas products help the day to day lives of Americans.

For example, If you force Apple to make products in the US, and then tax hell out of foreign competitors like Samsung, mobile phones will be so expensive in the US people won't get to afford it. I know you guys aren't worried about that because America will have an influx of jobs for manufacturing.

Was just at USC yesterday. iphones and G6's are around $600 if you have to buy one outright.

I'm am most definitely a capitalist, however if they had to make them here due to tariffs the cost might bump up 10-20 dollars. Likely wouldn't jump up at all due to shipping costs. Which they can right off.

Not a huge fan of either Roosevelt, but Teddy did have a good comment once. "You should not be able to buy something imported cheaper than something made here".

[kosko]

(07-03-2015 05:09 AM)TheNinja Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 12:00 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

DeepDiver literally dove deep into this myriad.

And...there isn't much I can't disagree on his essay - I might of changed my mind.

That was a GREAT breakdown.

(06-19-2015 12:45 PM)captain_shane Wrote:  

The thing I liked in his speech was adding a 35% tariff to companies making products overseas and selling them here like ford. I really like his fiscal ideas, but his foreign policy is a bit worrying.

I'm a Chinese dude educated in the states, so let me play the devil's advocate here and show you the other side of the coin.

I think people underestimate how cheap overseas products help the day to day lives of Americans.

For example, If you force Apple to make products in the US, and then tax hell out of foreign competitors like Samsung, mobile phones will be so expensive in the US people won't get to afford it. I know you guys aren't worried about that because America will have an influx of jobs for manufacturing.

But this is where it gets really tricky. People don't realize that because of the globalization, 40-50% of the revenues of many American companies (Fortune 500 and NY listed companies) are already from overseas.

Apple makes 36% of their revenues in America, rest is overseas. That's a staggering number, 64%.

If Apple iPhones are manufactured in the states, they will become more expensive. Let's say the cost of an iphone increases 20% to $1000 per phone, in the US you will just tax foreign competitors like the Samsungs and the Motorola to be $1000 too. Apple can still compete in the US.

But Apple will get absolutely destroyed in other markets Asia (25%) and Europe (25%). Samsung phones will still be manufactured in China and will remain cheap. Foreign companies will absolutely destroy American companies overseas. You're going to kill your export market. This is why economic protectionism was abolished in the 90's.

American companies will especially hammered in places where Trump starts an economic war with, like India, Japan, Mexico, or China. They will ban these companies from selling there. Don't think these guys will just keep taking punches. They are big markets with many consumer spending power. The old frame work where our countries are just slave labors isn't very true anymore. The buying power of developing countries are growing every year. In less than 10 years most big American companies will make more from overseas than the US. Globalization will make all of us interdependent to each other.

Instead of protectionism like this, I think the right way to go about this for America is fixing the corporate tax system to avoid foreign safe havens. The corporate taxes are too high and nobody ever pays it. It's ridiculous. In HKG the taxes are like 10% and everybody pays it. You can use the tax money to pay off debt.

Lastly, I've always liked Mark Cuban's economic approach of pushing for small and medium sized business owners. Give them incentives, tax breaks or subsidies and have them replace big chains, especially in the service and retail industry. More entrepreneurship is needed in this country. That in my opinion is how America can live in this era of globalization. What you want to change here are the reliance to retailers than really dont bring any innovative value.

I want to stress out too that through out history, countries closing their borders have always collapsed. In 1950, check what happened with Mao and China. See how different it is when they opened up their borders. Japan has the same story before industrialization (Tokugawa shogunate and Meiji restoration right after). If the US becomes more protectionist, I think in 10 years it will re-open its borders and it will find American companies and products subordinate to Germans, Japanese and even the Chinese.

In 2015 China and India still have aggressive protectionist policies, thier locals still but expensive iPhones.

America was at its economic peak when. It had some of the most aggressive tarrifs around.

America is a high production and high wage country. Its ability to present a environment that favors capitalizing creativity and monitizing that into prodw always meant it never had a shortage of ideas that could be flipped into production and profits.

The other truth is that China isn't even cheap anymore. They have assended up the ladder and just like the USA of old workers are seeing gains in income levels. Companies nkre are even choosing to use USA labor now since once you factor in the Govt tax kickbacks they will shower you with it drives your production costs to nothing, also places like Bangladesh have open them sleeves up as bottom barrel labour bins where you can pack 1000 workers into a box and work for pennies. China can't even compete with that anymore as it is far to advanced of a labor pool.

I don't buy the argument that protectinism didn't work. All of the biggest national economic surges came via the gates of heavy protection policies.

"Free Trade" has turned the globe into a ceasepool of labour traps where the only way to compete is to force your labour pool to work like near slaves. Massive corporations that don't want any accoutablity or to be forces to run more efficient simply just hover around for new countries to use and abuse.

As a Canadian I can't sit here with a strait face in saying that NAFTA did not destroy my nations economy. It nearly bankrupted my country and our economy has been a shell of its former self since it took effect.

[Hotwheels]

^^^^ The only true free trade country today is the US. And it's killing us.

You can buy a BMW M3 for the same or less here than you can in Germany. Compare prices on a Vette in Berlin versus Detroit once.

Not close.

btw Kosko-Thanks to NAFTA Canadian Pacific and Canadian National both own substantial US railroads. The cost of our lumber is down anyway....

[TheNinja]

(07-03-2015 05:46 AM)kosko Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 05:09 AM)TheNinja Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 12:00 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

DeepDiver literally dove deep into this myriad.

And...there isn't much I can't disagree on his essay - I might of changed my mind.

That was a GREAT breakdown.

(06-19-2015 12:45 PM)captain_shane Wrote:  

The thing I liked in his speech was adding a 35% tariff to companies making products overseas and selling them here like ford. I really like his fiscal ideas, but his foreign policy is a bit worrying.

I'm a Chinese dude educated in the states, so let me play the devil's advocate here and show you the other side of the coin.

I think people underestimate how cheap overseas products help the day to day lives of Americans.

For example, If you force Apple to make products in the US, and then tax hell out of foreign competitors like Samsung, mobile phones will be so expensive in the US people won't get to afford it. I know you guys aren't worried about that because America will have an influx of jobs for manufacturing.

But this is where it gets really tricky. People don't realize that because of the globalization, 40-50% of the revenues of many American companies (Fortune 500 and NY listed companies) are already from overseas.

Apple makes 36% of their revenues in America, rest is overseas. That's a staggering number, 64%.

If Apple iPhones are manufactured in the states, they will become more expensive. Let's say the cost of an iphone increases 20% to $1000 per phone, in the US you will just tax foreign competitors like the Samsungs and the Motorola to be $1000 too. Apple can still compete in the US.

But Apple will get absolutely destroyed in other markets Asia (25%) and Europe (25%). Samsung phones will still be manufactured in China and will remain cheap. Foreign companies will absolutely destroy American companies overseas. You're going to kill your export market. This is why economic protectionism was abolished in the 90's.

American companies will especially hammered in places where Trump starts an economic war with, like India, Japan, Mexico, or China. They will ban these companies from selling there. Don't think these guys will just keep taking punches. They are big markets with many consumer spending power. The old frame work where our countries are just slave labors isn't very true anymore. The buying power of developing countries are growing every year. In less than 10 years most big American companies will make more from overseas than the US. Globalization will make all of us interdependent to each other.

Instead of protectionism like this, I think the right way to go about this for America is fixing the corporate tax system to avoid foreign safe havens. The corporate taxes are too high and nobody ever pays it. It's ridiculous. In HKG the taxes are like 10% and everybody pays it. You can use the tax money to pay off debt.

Lastly, I've always liked Mark Cuban's economic approach of pushing for small and medium sized business owners. Give them incentives, tax breaks or subsidies and have them replace big chains, especially in the service and retail industry. More entrepreneurship is needed in this country. That in my opinion is how America can live in this era of globalization. What you want to change here are the reliance to retailers than really dont bring any innovative value.

I want to stress out too that through out history, countries closing their borders have always collapsed. In 1950, check what happened with Mao and China. See how different it is when they opened up their borders. Japan has the same story before industrialization (Tokugawa shogunate and Meiji restoration right after). If the US becomes more protectionist, I think in 10 years it will re-open its borders and it will find American companies and products subordinate to Germans, Japanese and even the Chinese.

In 2015 China and India still have aggressive protectionist policies, thier locals still but expensive iPhones.

America was at its economic peak when. It had some of the most aggressive tarrifs around.

America is a high production and high wage country. Its ability to present a environment that favors capitalizing creativity and monitizing that into prodw always meant it never had a shortage of ideas that could be flipped into production and profits.

The other truth is that China isn't even cheap anymore. They have assended up the ladder and just like the USA of old workers are seeing gains in income levels. Companies nkre are even choosing to use USA labor now since once you factor in the Govt tax kickbacks they will shower you with it drives your production costs to nothing, also places like Bangladesh have open them sleeves up as bottom barrel labour bins where you can pack 1000 workers into a box and work for pennies. China can't even compete with that anymore as it is far to advanced of a labor pool.

I don't buy the argument that protectinism didn't work. All of the biggest national economic surges came via the gates of heavy protection policies.

"Free Trade" has turned the globe into a ceasepool of labour traps where the only way to compete is to force your labour pool to work like near slaves. Massive corporations that don't want any accoutablity or to be forces to run more efficient simply just hover around for new countries to use and abuse.

As a Canadian I can't sit here with a strait face in saying that NAFTA did not destroy my nations economy. It nearly bankrupted my country and our economy has been a shell of its former self since it took effect.

America was it's highest peak when it was in a protection era -- but that was an age where there were very little global trading comapred to today. If America became a protectionist country today others will not follow suit. It's Game Theory and every entity (business, unions, politicians) will do that best for themselves.

Actually, I can even argue that by sheer numbers America is as richest as it's ever been. The difference is just in inequality. Poor people are poorer but rich people are damn sure richer.

The truth is it's very hard to persuade businesses to hire American workers over cheap labor. It's hard to expect them to pay you 8-10x more (when including workers comp, taxes, retirement, vacation, fees, etc). It's a concept of capitalism that is very hard to swallow for midlle class folks, and I sympathize with them. But I am very pro capitalist and I will not blame the companies for shipping jobs overseas.

What I'm suggesting is that American politicians should enact policies that will lower the gap of rich and poor, empower the middle class. The problem in America is not the jobs, but the pay of American workers.

[Hotwheels]

(07-03-2015 06:22 AM)TheNinja Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 05:46 AM)kosko Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 05:09 AM)TheNinja Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 12:00 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

DeepDiver literally dove deep into this myriad.

And...there isn't much I can't disagree on his essay - I might of changed my mind.

That was a GREAT breakdown.

(06-19-2015 12:45 PM)captain_shane Wrote:  

The thing I liked in his speech was adding a 35% tariff to companies making products overseas and selling them here like ford. I really like his fiscal ideas, but his foreign policy is a bit worrying.

I'm a Chinese dude educated in the states, so let me play the devil's advocate here and show you the other side of the coin.

I think people underestimate how cheap overseas products help the day to day lives of Americans.

For example, If you force Apple to make products in the US, and then tax hell out of foreign competitors like Samsung, mobile phones will be so expensive in the US people won't get to afford it. I know you guys aren't worried about that because America will have an influx of jobs for manufacturing.

But this is where it gets really tricky. People don't realize that because of the globalization, 40-50% of the revenues of many American companies (Fortune 500 and NY listed companies) are already from overseas.

Apple makes 36% of their revenues in America, rest is overseas. That's a staggering number, 64%.

If Apple iPhones are manufactured in the states, they will become more expensive. Let's say the cost of an iphone increases 20% to $1000 per phone, in the US you will just tax foreign competitors like the Samsungs and the Motorola to be $1000 too. Apple can still compete in the US.

But Apple will get absolutely destroyed in other markets Asia (25%) and Europe (25%). Samsung phones will still be manufactured in China and will remain cheap. Foreign companies will absolutely destroy American companies overseas. You're going to kill your export market. This is why economic protectionism was abolished in the 90's.

American companies will especially hammered in places where Trump starts an economic war with, like India, Japan, Mexico, or China. They will ban these companies from selling there. Don't think these guys will just keep taking punches. They are big markets with many consumer spending power. The old frame work where our countries are just slave labors isn't very true anymore. The buying power of developing countries are growing every year. In less than 10 years most big American companies will make more from overseas than the US. Globalization will make all of us interdependent to each other.

Instead of protectionism like this, I think the right way to go about this for America is fixing the corporate tax system to avoid foreign safe havens. The corporate taxes are too high and nobody ever pays it. It's ridiculous. In HKG the taxes are like 10% and everybody pays it. You can use the tax money to pay off debt.

Lastly, I've always liked Mark Cuban's economic approach of pushing for small and medium sized business owners. Give them incentives, tax breaks or subsidies and have them replace big chains, especially in the service and retail industry. More entrepreneurship is needed in this country. That in my opinion is how America can live in this era of globalization. What you want to change here are the reliance to retailers than really dont bring any innovative value.

I want to stress out too that through out history, countries closing their borders have always collapsed. In 1950, check what happened with Mao and China. See how different it is when they opened up their borders. Japan has the same story before industrialization (Tokugawa shogunate and Meiji restoration right after). If the US becomes more protectionist, I think in 10 years it will re-open its borders and it will find American companies and products subordinate to Germans, Japanese and even the Chinese.

In 2015 China and India still have aggressive protectionist policies, thier locals still but expensive iPhones.

America was at its economic peak when. It had some of the most aggressive tarrifs around.

America is a high production and high wage country. Its ability to present a environment that favors capitalizing creativity and monitizing that into prodw always meant it never had a shortage of ideas that could be flipped into production and profits.

The other truth is that China isn't even cheap anymore. They have assended up the ladder and just like the USA of old workers are seeing gains in income levels. Companies nkre are even choosing to use USA labor now since once you factor in the Govt tax kickbacks they will shower you with it drives your production costs to nothing, also places like Bangladesh have open them sleeves up as bottom barrel labour bins where you can pack 1000 workers into a box and work for pennies. China can't even compete with that anymore as it is far to advanced of a labor pool.

I don't buy the argument that protectinism didn't work. All of the biggest national economic surges came via the gates of heavy protection policies.

"Free Trade" has turned the globe into a ceasepool of labour traps where the only way to compete is to force your labour pool to work like near slaves. Massive corporations that don't want any accoutablity or to be forces to run more efficient simply just hover around for new countries to use and abuse.

As a Canadian I can't sit here with a strait face in saying that NAFTA did not destroy my nations economy. It nearly bankrupted my country and our economy has been a shell of its former self since it took effect.

America was it's highest peak when it was in a protection era -- but that was an age where there were very little global trading comapred to today. If America became a protectionist country today others will not follow suit. It's Game Theory and every entity (business, unions, politicians) will do that best for themselves.

There was a LOT of global trade in the early 20th century. And even at that the US made more or less everything the country needed, while exporting to other countries. In both world wars the victors knew it only took getting the US involved and it was over due to our manufacturing capacity.

Quote:

What I'm suggesting is that American politicians should enact policies that will lower the gap of rich and poor, empower the middle class. Like breaking grocery chains and cable companies and fast food companies into more a more local, mom and pop type of stores.

Grocery chains? Cable companies? McDonald's? /chuckle

Just a heads up. I buy my food at a mom and pop type store that you promote. Costs me at least 1/3 more than a regional chain store. Wally World is even less if you want to go there.

I'll never eat the meat they pawn however.

[TheNinja]

(07-03-2015 05:58 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

^^^^ The only true free trade country today is the US. And it's killing us.

You can buy a BMW M3 for the same or less here than you can in Germany. Compare prices on a Vette in Berlin versus Detroit once.

Not close.

btw Kosko-Thanks to NAFTA Canadian Pacific and Canadian National both own substantial US railroads. The cost of our lumber is down anyway....

The US is a protectionist country too, albeit probably in the middle of the pack.

For example, almost all the farmers are protected by the farm bills in congress. I absolutely despise that because these entitled farmers just sit there and collect checks and they really dont have the incentive to compete harder. In return, US agricuilture companies are so weak compared to international companies because of protection. They will never be able to export products.

What they should do is use agricultural land for something the US competes in, like Wine for example. American wine is growing big and actually making a contribution to the economy without much subsiddies.

[Hotwheels]

Sorry, Nebraska is not going to change from corn to grapevines anytime soon.

[TheNinja]

Quote:

There was a LOT of global trade in the early 20th century. And even at that the US made more or less everything the country needed, while exporting to other countries. In both world wars the victors knew it only took getting the US involved and it was over due to our manufacturing capacity.

Global trade was present but they are nowhere near the levels they are today.

Do you suggest manufacturing everything here locally? Food, fruits, phones, steel, wood, electronics?

Everything will be so expensive. Middle class Americans won't even get own cars if this were to happen.

If you want to have small tarrifs here and there, America is doing that already right now.

[Hotwheels]

(07-03-2015 06:37 AM)TheNinja Wrote:  

Quote:

There was a LOT of global trade in the early 20th century. And even at that the US made more or less everything the country needed, while exporting to other countries. In both world wars the victors knew it only took getting the US involved and it was over due to our manufacturing capacity.

Global trade was present but they are nowhere near the levels they are today.

Global population was not what it is today either. Yet, a nation of a 100 million people, probably high, exported far more than it imported.

Quote:

Do you suggest manufacturing everything here locally? Food, fruits, phones, steel, wood, electronics?

Everything will be so expensive. Middle class Americans won't even get own cars if this were to happen.

If you want to have small tarrifs here and there, America is doing that already right now.

Get this. A huge import back in the day was bananas. Know why? It was one of the few things that couldn't be grown here. The US is big enough and diverse enough when it comes to resources that quite frankly it doesn't need anyone else.

Saying people couldn't buy cars shows how little you know. Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes, Subaru, etc all build cars in the US for cost reasons.

With protectionist tarriffs prices may rise slightly on some things. However, wages would far outstrip the difference.

Quite frankly, the US has been subsidizing the rest of the world at it's own detriment for decades.

[Libertas]

(07-03-2015 06:37 AM)TheNinja Wrote:  

Quote:

There was a LOT of global trade in the early 20th century. And even at that the US made more or less everything the country needed, while exporting to other countries. In both world wars the victors knew it only took getting the US involved and it was over due to our manufacturing capacity.

Global trade was present but they are nowhere near the levels they are today.

Not quite. Globalization was arguably even greater than it was today in the 19th century prior to World war I. The U.S. had protective tariffs up the wazoo and still built up the greatest industrial capacity in the world. Kosko is right.

[kosko]

(07-03-2015 05:58 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

^^^^ The only true free trade country today is the US. And it's killing us.

You can buy a BMW M3 for the same or less here than you can in Germany. Compare prices on a Vette in Berlin versus Detroit once.

Not close.

btw Kosko-Thanks to NAFTA Canadian Pacific and Canadian National both own substantial US railroads. The cost of our lumber is down anyway....

That is true but both rail corps are Canadian only in name. CP has a bunch of desks in Calgary and attempts to call it a HQ but CP is run out of Chicago which is where the power base of the corp sits. Next, CN Rail has American oligarchs as majority shareholders, I don't even know what percentage the Canadian government even sits in with the company. All those were made possible via NAFTA where Americans took over Canadian assets for dirt cheap.

[Hotwheels]

(07-03-2015 07:56 AM)kosko Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 05:58 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

^^^^ The only true free trade country today is the US. And it's killing us.

You can buy a BMW M3 for the same or less here than you can in Germany. Compare prices on a Vette in Berlin versus Detroit once.

Not close.

btw Kosko-Thanks to NAFTA Canadian Pacific and Canadian National both own substantial US railroads. The cost of our lumber is down anyway....

That is true but both rail corps are Canadian only in name. CP has a bunch of desks in Calgary and attempts to call it a HQ but CP is run out of Chicago which is where the power base of the corp sits. Next, CN Rail has American oligarchs as majority shareholders, I don't even know what percentage the Canadian government even sits in with the company. All those were made possible via NAFTA where Americans took over Canadian assets for dirt cheap.

I used to work for CP and still do contracting for them. Believe me, the HQ is in Calgary and the American side quite frankly hates them. The US operations are based out of Minneapolis, but Calgary calls the shots.

If not for the FRA (Federal Railroad Administration), both railroads would be completely run out of Canada. The Feds will not allow dispatchers outside the US to run lines within the country due to hours of service and other rules however.

The Canadian government privatized CN years ago. As far as I know they haven't had anything to do with it since the 90's. And once private, it went from losing millions to making millions.

[Vaun]

First off, I am 99.9% sure his presidential run is a publicity stunt to promote the next season of the Apprentice.

His show was canceled, so whats he going to do?

The Apprentice was one of the lowest rated shows on television. NBC is grasping for straws. If they keep the show without him, he still benefits by pretending to want to be president.

Now that his show is canceled, continuing to run makes sense.

But I doubt he will get votes. Middle America doesnt vote for New Yorkers. Fatso Christy suffers the same problem. Combine that with never holding an office, he polarizes people he disagrees with and appears to have no political strategy and tact whatsoever. Brash = dumb. The immigrant statements were another PR play, to get Tea Party voters to like him. Being against immigration is totally opposite of the Republican stance, they are for immigration. All this does is rile up the minority of Tea Party voters that are vocal and get lots of attention, but ultimately are a small minority of voters. He played the Tea Party for his own personal gain, game recognized. Results from all this non-sense; best selling books, speaking tours, more TV and cultural relevance. I would love to see the ROI on this, it will pay off for him for decades.

Prediction = he's gone by Jan 2016.