[almohajem]

(05-31-2015 09:22 AM)dreambig Wrote:  

(05-31-2015 08:07 AM)almohajem Wrote:  

- Does she do/work something useful. For example, doctor, reduce your health bills. Or Lawyer, takes care of your legal stuff.

I don't really get guys that want to marry a submissive/feminine women. There is no such thing. The more submissive, the worse is the deal.

You obviously have a lot to learn.

And I find it funny that you think someone can just turn up in Asia on a business trip and bang a "9.5". How much experience do you have with women?

I'm not much experienced. But here is to clarify more.

1. you hire the asian bitch. you can't get a 9.5 bitch to suck your balls overnight. I have no problem paying for sex.

2. I have been with submissive women and not submissive women. Hard women are intolerable. But "very" submissive women are usually sneaking because they think (or you really are) a very good deal to them.

3. Obviously you need to marry a "relatively" submissive women and one that follow your lead. But after a certain point, and if you get one way too submissive/obedient, you may have to wonder if she is too good, or you are too good for her.

[Odin]

Why risk marriage ? Sounds like you have done it once ( like me) and have paid the price, why risk it again? The problem is that over time women change, you change, and in this current world with Viber, Whatapp, FB, Tinder, Twitter, POF , dating sites, etc etc ...for me its just not worth the risk , its to easy to have a secret relationship with someone else ....and next minute there goes your house, your kids, and half your pension..

I will never marry again, only if the girl is rich and not a headfuck,but were are these women?

If a women really likes you for what you are , she will stay with you without marriage, but that doesnt happen does it ?

[Onto]

(05-31-2015 12:37 PM)almohajem Wrote:  

I'm not much experienced. But here is to clarify more.

1. you hire the asian bitch. you can't get a 9.5 bitch to suck your balls overnight. I have no problem paying for sex.

This isn't a P4P forum.

(05-31-2015 12:37 PM)almohajem Wrote:  

2. I have been with submissive women and not submissive women. Hard women are intolerable. But "very" submissive women are usually sneaking because they think (or you really are) a very good deal to them.

Any woman who realizes you are a great catch will want your appreciation and to surrender themselves to you. This a good thing.

(05-31-2015 12:37 PM)almohajem Wrote:  

3. Obviously you need to marry a "relatively" submissive women and one that follow your lead. But after a certain point, and if you get one way too submissive/obedient, you may have to wonder if she is too good, or you are too good for her.

If there is any negative, it's we might feel a sense of fault we don't deserve them.

[LeeEnfield303]

I've sometimes heard the advice, "If you want to know what your bride will be like in 20 +/- years, take a good look at her mother."


I think this has a lot of truth in it.

[RURALGAMER]

I know it's not something to bring up because of differing opinions but a bunch of today's service at Church was about screening for this kind of thing.

[samsamsam]

(05-31-2015 04:02 PM)RURALGAMER Wrote:  

I know it's not something to bring up because of differing opinions but a bunch of today's service at Church was about screening for this kind of thing.

What were some of the highlights. If you don't want to make it too religious you can just provide the bullet points and not tie it back to scripture. Just curious thanks.

[RockHard]

(05-31-2015 01:03 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Keep reading these lists, and I'm not sure why you guys think girls are static.

If you out there seriously in the game, bagging chicks, you know that they make life changing decisions in a heartbeat.

WIA

Well, that's a good point. It's really important to be able to pick up on the warning signs. Here's a big one I've seen play out many times: you have kids, and the kids get old enough (youngest is 5 or 6) that suddenly the kids are a bit more independent, in school full time, and she suddenly has a lot less responsibility and a good sized hole to fill in her life. What's she going to do with that?

[jbird669]

Great debate here and lots of great info.

I married wrong. There were signs before that I either ignored or looking back should've paid more attention to. And of course, afterwards my brother and sister-in-law told me they never liked her and she was awful for me.

Then again, because of her and what she did, I found the red pill. It's a slow process but I am learning more and have banged 5 girls in the past year, one them being a weekend LTR that is perfect for where I am in life.

[samsamsam]

(06-02-2015 11:19 AM)jbird669 Wrote:  

Great debate here and lots of great info.

I married wrong. There were signs before that I either ignored or looking back should've paid more attention to. And of course, afterwards my brother and sister-in-law told me they never liked her and she was awful for me.

Then again, because of her and what she did, I found the red pill. It's a slow process but I am learning more and have banged 5 girls in the past year, one them being a weekend LTR that is perfect for where I am in life.

If it is not too painful, what were some of the signs? Thanks.

[RockHard]

(06-02-2015 01:42 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

If it is not too painful, what were some of the signs? Thanks.

You weren't asking me but I'll chime in anyway. I pointed out a couple earlier in the thread
* Changes in musical tastes for the sluttier
* Changes in reading habits (Gone Girl, 50 Shades, Cheat Prey Slut)

Life changes
* Like I mentioned, more opportunities with kids growing older
* Changes in employment

Behavioral changes
* Engaging more with social media - went from anti-facebook to couldn't stay off the thing. Generally becoming more obsessed with her smartphone.
* New friends, especially ones that set off the slut radar
* Taking advantage of new freedom - going out with these new friends a lot, especially when you're not invited into the new social circle. Very bad if the new social circle includes men.
* Suddenly having male friends online, even in places like Words With Friends.
* Holding double standards - she gets on you about you going out and getting loaded but does the same with her friends.
* Wants to get a new tattoo

Time to hire a PI or a Lawyer
* Starts locking down her phone: first a password (to keep the kids out you know), then she turns of text preview so you can only see who's texting, not what's in the message. Honestly, if she gets weird at all about her phone, that's a huge red flag.
* You start seeing unusual cash withdrawls from your joint account.
* Any indication she might have a bank account or credit card she hasn't cleared with you.

I could probably add more into this list, but that's what jumps out at me.

[LeeEnfield303]

^^^ Great, great points. Gold.

[RockHard]

I've got another one which is possibly a stretch:

Changes in how she keeps house. If she used to be a neat freak and starts letting that stuff go, she used to keep her nightstand or vanity clean and now it's cluttered, that kind of thing. I'm not totally sure on this one, but I think it's partly her mentally checking out of your household, or being distracted by another guy.

I've heard that the the word "slut" evolved from meaning a bad housekeeper to a woman who tends to immoral conduct. I used to think that it was just a play on words but now I think there's probably a connection in behavior.

[mardan]

IMHO you should not be reloading another bullet in the chamber to fire the same way you did last time.
What I would do is take time off, learn game, change myself, learn about women.
Become a different guy.

Then you won't even have to ask anyone, you will know.
The fact that you are asking for advice is the telling sign that you do not know.
It is not knowledge you need (which is what you would get by asking).
You need that inner knowing that comes only with experience.
Which will likely take a few years in the minimum, and if you work at it.

[mammal]

Irresponsibility: spending on things she can't afford and being hounded by creditors, not maintaining car, clothing so it lasts far less, bad driving record.

Inconsiderate: to other drivers, clerksand waitresses who have to put up with her shit because they're afraid fo getting fired. Returns borrowed items soiled,damaged, needs to be remindedto return them. Returns borrowed car with empty gas tank. (The few times I borrowed a car from a relative, I returned the car washed and with a full tank of gas.)

How she treats her relatives. I don't mean going shopping with mom or on a vacation that her parents pay for. Does she help them fix things around their house, Spring cleaning, etc.

[reco2100]

I was told by some e recently to have a list of 5 and 5.

This means a list of five things you must have and five things you will not tolerate.

Also the tests of putting her in stressful situations is good. Take her on public transit if she is not used to it. Or camping if she is not used to it. Another one is being spontaneous call her up and say be over in thirty minutes to pick you up be ready. See how she reacts.

Finally I have many of tells before my marriage. And mostly they are about me.

[RockHard]

(05-31-2015 01:05 PM)LeeEnfield303 Wrote:  

I've sometimes heard the advice, "If you want to know what your bride will be like in 20 +/- years, take a good look at her mother."


I think this has a lot of truth in it.

Maybe. If my ex was more like her mother, I might still be married. I get along pretty well with my (soon to be ex) mother in law.

Problem is, my ex takes after her father. Even the shit he does that drives her batshit, she does too.

I don't know what to make of that except that it's another sad case of masculinzed American women. The unfortunate part is that I didn't pick up on this until we'd been married several years. She's much closer to her mom than her dad but in the end, she acts much more like her dad.

(side note, I need an antonym for fiancee, as in she's my ex but the divorce isn't final yet).

[CactusCat589]

CleanSlate mentioned how his ex-wife reacted with hostility to when he fell ill. To me, this strikes me as very unlikely to marry someone without knowing how they'll react to less-than-optimal circumstances. This is something you as a man, with all your faculties and intellect, should have screened out right away. This is like letting a con artist run your bank account. In the Middle Ages you'd be floating face-down in a river with arrows in your back!

You have to be judgmental (in your head, without letting other people see it). Not only am I processing how she's reacting to a minor or major annoyance, but I'm extrapolating to make an educated guess on how she'd react to something if we were together 3 years down the road as a serious couple. I treat it like a CIA mission where if I fail, the White House gets fucked. I get to know everyone in her social circle until I'm as close a friend as necessary for them to show their real selves.

I want to see if they are good people. If they are genuine, and are actually concerned and worried for other people we mutually care about. Or my gf, or me. Are they weasels and fakers? Is there even a single bearded hipster or feminist, or someone who's interned for a senator in their extended social network? I look through their facebook and instagram and see if there are red flags.

A mark against her friends is a mark against her.

Anything where you have to have a serious talk with her about dealbreakers, you need to end it right away. Not only do you abandon all investment you've already put into the relationship, you are grateful that she was sloppy enough to show her true colors. I'm not going to try and mildly suggest to a girl "You're kinda dressed really casual. Could you step it up a little, please?" I'm going to end it with minimal fuss and find a girl who doesn't dress like a slob when I'm over. I'm not gonna let myself be witnessed hanging out with her or with the creeps she insists on hanging out with.

What I've learned, is that this takes a lot of work. You have to be someone that people are relaxed and unguarded around in the first place. It's not even a zero tolerance policy, it's less than zero tolerance The way I see it, failing to do my due diligence has a price. There's the opportunity cost that I could be with a girl who's at least an 8 in looks + character. Then there's the damage to myself and future well-being if she moves in and hurts my finances, which hurts my ability to watch out for my friends and family. There's a lot at stake for us, which is why American men have to ruthless until we've found a really exceptional girl.

Edit: To really drive this home, the most severe thing I've had to forgive either of the 2 girls for is accidentally sneezing on me, and being late 15 minutes.

[Nightwing]

Almohajin,

The definition of submissive can vary by place, opinion, and time, but let me define submissive in the manosphere.

By submissive, we mean a woman who will love us unconditionally, will care for us when we need it, will cook us a warm and hearty meal when we get back from a hard day of work, and not say it's 'sexist' to cook. We want a woman who will take our opinion into consideration, actually listen to us when we speak, and not start a fight just for the sake of starting a fight. We can only dream that this woman will follow us to the ends of the Earth (I guess this saying doesn't really apply anymore because we have figured out that the Earth is round like a ball), but she must also be willing to please her man.

From what I get, these 'business trips' 9.5 submissives you are talking about, you probably mean the company entertainers who are paid to be secretaries/poon servers. They get paid very well to suck your cock, but it's all about their earnings. I'm sure if you offered them better incentives, they could be your personal poon secretaries too. We don't want these ones for marriage, though.

Again, we don't want a servant that turns over the tray, and waits on us when we talk submissive, we want a woman who cares for her famjam, and has an undying love for her husband.

Two different things.

[Apollo21]

(06-07-2015 02:14 AM)CactusCat589 Wrote:  

CleanSlate mentioned how his ex-wife reacted with hostility to when he fell ill. To me, this strikes me as very unlikely to marry someone without knowing how they'll react to less-than-optimal circumstances. This is something you as a man, with all your faculties and intellect, should have screened out right away. This is like letting a con artist run your bank account. In the Middle Ages you'd be floating face-down in a river with arrows in your back!

You have to be judgmental (in your head, without letting other people see it). Not only am I processing how she's reacting to a minor or major annoyance, but I'm extrapolating to make an educated guess on how she'd react to something if we were together 3 years down the road as a serious couple. I treat it like a CIA mission where if I fail, the White House gets fucked. I get to know everyone in her social circle until I'm as close a friend as necessary for them to show their real selves.

I want to see if they are good people. If they are genuine, and are actually concerned and worried for other people we mutually care about. Or my gf, or me. Are they weasels and fakers? Is there even a single bearded hipster or feminist, or someone who's interned for a senator in their extended social network? I look through their facebook and instagram and see if there are red flags.

A mark against her friends is a mark against her.

Anything where you have to have a serious talk with her about dealbreakers, you need to end it right away. Not only do you abandon all investment you've already put into the relationship, you are grateful that she was sloppy enough to show her true colors. I'm not going to try and mildly suggest to a girl "You're kinda dressed really casual. Could you step it up a little, please?" I'm going to end it with minimal fuss and find a girl who doesn't dress like a slob when I'm over. I'm not gonna let myself be witnessed hanging out with her or with the creeps she insists on hanging out with.

What I've learned, is that this takes a lot of work. You have to be someone that people are relaxed and unguarded around in the first place. It's not even a zero tolerance policy, it's less than zero tolerance The way I see it, failing to do my due diligence has a price. There's the opportunity cost that I could be with a girl who's at least an 8 in looks + character. Then there's the damage to myself and future well-being if she moves in and hurts my finances, which hurts my ability to watch out for my friends and family. There's a lot at stake for us, which is why American men have to ruthless until we've found a really exceptional girl.

Edit: To really drive this home, the most severe thing I've had to forgive either of the 2 girls for is accidentally sneezing on me, and being late 15 minutes.

Exactly. Just like the government runs full background checks before issuing security clearances, you need to do your own evaluations before you get serious with someone.

That said, if most guys did this, they'd probably screen out 90% of the women they meet. Which poses a real problem in terms of finding enough qualified women in the first place...the higher the bar...the fewer the candidates...which means you have to get more creative, work harder and move faster to get women who are ideal...and therefore much more likely to get married faster.

[loki]

Disclaimer: I have never been married and never intend on being married.

However I have noticed in my LTR's over time, I start to see cracks in their acts after 2-3 yrs max, sometimes sooner. Sure they are nice as pie up until then but sooner or later you will get a dose of the real bitch hiding inside.

Pro Tip: Women who don't care for money never talk about it.

There are good women out there but they are few and far between now days.

Also keep a close eye on how they treat other people, especially strangers, people that serve them in shops and the poor. its a good gauge of what their heart is really like. Listen to how they talk about other people, both people known and not know.

and when ever a women talks, watch her body language because a lot of what we communicate honestly is with our body language not with our mouths.

[CleanSlate]

CactusCat589's post makes a whole lot of sense.

It's all too easy to make excuses for a girl you care about. They can even put up an act or show that they care about others, including poor people. My ex wife was extremely generous, to the point of giving leftover food to the homeless, and ordering flowers for a friend who was feeling down just to cheer her up. Well, look what happened.

I don't even think it's enough to watch their body language when they are around other people. Sure, if you get a bad impression by watching their body language, it would be obvious to you by that point that you don't want her with you any longer than a pump and dump or a brief fling. But I get the feeling that many, many girls have their acting masterfully honed to fool beta bucks into marrying them. Some can keep up the act a whole lot longer than two or three years, which is plenty of time to get a wedding ring on her finger.

Isn't that what we call "girl game" around here? I mean, girls have been talking girl game, sharing notes, exchanging stories, and giving each other advice since 3rd grade. Take us RVFers, we find each other when we are in our adult years, mostly after college or sometimes during. That puts us about 15-20 years behind girls in their gaming skills, albeit used for different purposes.

I have to agree that you'd have to be your own personal CIA agent to vet whether a woman is good for a LTR, and at the same time, hide what you are thinking and doing. I used to think "innocent until proven guilty", and now that has changed to "guilty until proven innocent." They are ALL guilty until they prove themselves year in year out all the way to the end. It's up to the modern man to decide whether or not to invest his whole life in the very iffy (and unlikely) chance that the girl he marries is actually one of the few good ones.

Personally, I'm leaning towards not.

[fiasco360]

tagged to post later.

[LeeEnfield303]

(06-07-2015 12:11 AM)RockHard Wrote:  

(side note, I need an antonym for fiancee, as in she's my ex but the divorce isn't final yet).

STBX?

[Tytalus]

(06-07-2015 03:54 AM)Nightwing Wrote:  

By submissive, we mean a woman who will love us unconditionally, will care for us when we need it, will cook us a warm and hearty meal when we get back from a hard day of work, and not say it's 'sexist' to cook. We want a woman who will take our opinion into consideration, actually listen to us when we speak, and not start a fight just for the sake of starting a fight. We can only dream that this woman will follow us to the ends of the Earth (I guess this saying doesn't really apply anymore because we have figured out that the Earth is round like a ball), but she must also be willing to please her man.

From what I get, these 'business trips' 9.5 submissives you are talking about, you probably mean the company entertainers who are paid to be secretaries/poon servers. They get paid very well to suck your cock, but it's all about their earnings. I'm sure if you offered them better incentives, they could be your personal poon secretaries too. We don't want these ones for marriage, though.

Again, we don't want a servant that turns over the tray, and waits on us when we talk submissive, we want a woman who cares for her famjam, and has an undying love for her husband.

Two different things.

(06-18-2015 12:17 PM)loki Wrote:  

Disclaimer: I have never been married and never intend on being married.

However I have noticed in my LTR's over time, I start to see cracks in their acts after 2-3 yrs max, sometimes sooner. Sure they are nice as pie up until then but sooner or later you will get a dose of the real bitch hiding inside.

I don't think this gets talked about around here very much since this website is more for short term relationships than long term relationships.

There is NO SUCH THING as unconditional romantic love. It is hopeless, hopelessly naive and immature to believe such a thing exists. Your parents will probably love you forever, but in love? No way. Romantic love lasts 2 years tops. Then your blinders come off and your judgement comes back and you wonder who the fuck you married and what the fuck you were thinking. This happens to BOTH genders. She will not be enchanted with you forever. You will make mistakes and displays of low value (hopefully not too many) and will become much more realistic about who you really are over time. The same will happen with you about who she is.

If you want someone to unconditionally love you no matter what, then yeah, don't get married and have a good relationship with your mom.

You want your wife to love and appreciate you forever? Well be a man, not a chump. Fix the shit in your house without her asking you to, let alone having to remind you. Keep your cool. Keep your career and income steady and rising over time. Be good with your kids and not lose your shit. Help out a bit when she's having a bad day. Flirt with her plenty and play grab ass when the kids aren't looking. Pass her shit tests.

You cannot just be, and expect her to love you.

Also I think one should also keep in mind that you really can't be looking for a unicorn. Everyone has rough parts of their personalities. Everyone. We here accuse women of having long laundry lists of desirable traits, well, guys can do the same thing.

With things that are NOT major red flags, remember that the only time you have leverage to change her behavior is BEFORE the wedding, the engagement in particular.

She has a lousy diet but still thin? Get her to clean it up. Doesn't exercise as much as you like? Get her to the gym more. She gains 5 lbs? Tell her she needs to lose it ASAP.

My wife's friend married a man, who I shit you not, will not drink anything (or so I hear) other than cherry coke. Goes through at least 6 cans a day of the stuff. So severely unhealthy in his lifestyle that the friend can't get pregnant. Had she spoken up and said this HAD to change for them to get married, well, his health may be lousy instead of being a wreck.

Conversely, another friend of my wife's was complaining that her husband spoke up as she hit 145 lbs, and was 140 when she married him. I couldn't believe it, this quiet, mild mannered dutch guy belligerently on his wife's case every time she hit 145 on the scale. And, to boot, she lost the weight every time he told her to.

My reaction on the inside was a combination of:



On the outside, I was upfront. I said as soon as he was cool with her putting on 5 lbs, she'd have another 5 lbs, then "145" would be her new normal. And then 150 etc. She didn't like that I didn't back her up, but at the same time, agreed with what I told her.

Another piece of advice, don't rush into marriage. It takes at least 3 months, to see personality patterns. I don't believe in long engagements, keep those things short so you don't give her, your mother, and her mother several months to plan on how to fritter away your hard earned money on one stupid day.

Here are some links to Athol Kay's blog about unconditional love that are interesting.

http://marriedmansexlife.com/2012/02/unc...antage-of/

http://marriedmansexlife.com/2011/07/fat...onal-love/

[Rage_on]

A woman isn't going to make you happy. After some time YOU may stop liking all the qualities you thought were great. You're likely to grow weary of fucking her and you'll miss your freedom. But hey freedom is scary.
I think it's important to note that everything a woman thinks and feels changes after she has children. The masculin qualities she likes now will become a source of insecurity for her later and she could make your life hell.
The things we use to qualify "goodness" in a woman: lack of promiscuity, respect, admiration of us etc. are volatile. They are subject to change. If she hasn't had any sexual partners that may be a prime motivator for her to WANT them later (after you subjugated yourself to her via giving her "your" children), marriage is a risk. Period. A super fucked up, borderline type girl COULD make a great wife someday. There are no concrete indicators to insure an even remotely risk free choice. Marriage is kind of dumb. It takes more skill and more proven aptitude to obtain a drivers license than a marriage license. Fuck man. I'm not saying don't ever do it. But even in the best of circumstances you have legally bound yourself in service to an ever changing being. To grasp for assurances is silly.