[The Lizard of Oz]

Any forum for men in which women are allowed to participate -- let alone become prominent posters -- is bound to fail. And this is not even because of the shortcomings of women as posters and thinkers (though they are vast) but simply because the interactions of men with each other in the presence of women -- even in their virtual presence -- inevitably degenerate into a worthless struggle for the all-important prize of female attention and admiration. This utterly destroys the great and age-old virtues of discourse between men at their ease: plainspokenness, rationality, camaraderie, and humor.

Therefore, all other failings of the Red Pill Reddit aside (and I've never read the site for more than a few moments since I find its very look and layout extremely annoying, to say nothing about the content), the prominent presence of females on that site would have been enough to foretell its decline; just as, all other virtues of the RVF aside, the cardinal virtue of it being a forum for men only (with one pleasantly quaint and whimsical exception) is, more than anything else, what has allowed it grow in scope and reach while maintaining its exceptional quality.

As far as their rhetoric against Roosh goes, I find it baffling. In such dealings as I've had with Roosh, one of the things that struck me most strongly is how scrupulous and fastidious he is -- even to excess -- in his determination to avoid taking any money if he is not completely convinced that he is providing a service in return. To accuse such a man of being a "sellout" who is intent on monetizing other people's ideas seems absurd on its face.

[memcpy]

On a lighter note, still no response from the Meninists

   

[infowarrior1]

(05-22-2015 02:25 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

(05-22-2015 12:16 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  

The most sickening comment of all is: "I respected Roosh until he pulled this lame bullshit move. He's trying to monetize TRP by changing the name of TRP. I like the guy and I like his work but this entire "Neomasculinity" thing is the most transparently self-serving bullshit ive ever seen.

The only reason I ever trusted TRP in the first place is because I knew no one was profiting from it. By contrast, I am 100% sure that someone IS profiting from "Neomasculinity," so I will NEVER, EVER be able to trust it."

This is part of a particularly stupid memeplex that's been floating around for a while, I think it might be an off-shoot of the "Information wants to be free!" pro-piracy advocates. The idea that profiting off of your work makes you corrupt.

What utter bollocks.

On the contrary, you should be suspicious of anybody who does anything for free or at a loss. People who are working for free demonstrate:

A)Entitlement: everybody has to eat, everybody has to pay their expenses somehow. A "journalist" making $27k in New York City isn't paying her bills through readership, she's paying it through a trust-fund, or by mooching off her parents.
B)Arrogance: if people aren't willing to pay for your stuff, then it probably isn't worth reading. Operating at a loss means that you're more interested in having your voice heard than in considering what your audience would enjoy.

What are the results of operating at a loss?

A) Journalists who push a feminist agenda nobody wants to hear, so-as to control the narrative.
B) I once knew a film maker who quit his first job making commercials because it 'compromised his artistic vision', who then went on to live off welfare while making unwatcheable B-Movies.
C) Internet Aristocrat's meltdown a while back - the guy makes great content but refuses to monetize it. Hey, idiot - if you received ad revenue from your videos, you'd be more inclined to spend the time recording this great stuff I like to watch!
D) Content-creation becomes restricted to those who are born wealthy (and have never lived a day in the real world), or those who can make political connections to push an agenda (and all of the money is in Marxism right now).

These arguments are beyond idiotic, yet I keep hearing them from idealistic Millenial idiots who are going massively into debt on student loans, thinking that money ought to be free. It's the ultimate r-type, rabbit, free-resource, John Lennon, pie-in-the-sky, moron mentality.

Alright guys I will be playing Devil's Advocate here. I hope all your guys will take this into consideration.

The fact is if one's sole income is to fight feminism or any one enemy. Then one is incentivized to perpetuate this war in order to make a living. A chief concern that I have for the Manosphere is that it becomes dependent upon the existence of fighting feminism in order to remain relevant. Hence we become so specialized in doing this one thing that our other skills atrophy and become unable to deal with new threats and challenges.

And if our sole purpose is to fight something. Wouldn't that incentivize us not totally defeating our enemies or inventing non-existent enemies as feminism of the modern day done?

But if the manosphere exists in its own right for a purpose that does not become irrelevant with time or with the solving of a problem. Then it should be able to escape this conundrum. And continue to be a positive force in society.

That being said. Its encouraging that the manosphere has moved on beyond just fighting feminism. I'd say that if we ain't fighting we should be a male-space oriented towards discovery and better understanding of human nature, building,creating, innovating(as we are already doing) pursuing excellence and virtue and aiming for the stars.

[TheFinalEpic]

I didn't even realize that we are all different groups. I think that we are all working towards common goals (MGTOW, RedPill, Neomasculine, etc.) and have a common enemy in radical feminism. The issue with a lot of this side of the web (as with any movement) is you have the circle-jerking keyboard jockies that don't actually go out and change any aspect of their lives even if we are giving them the formula. I personally have stopped reading a lot of the articles on RoK because it has lost sight of what brought me to it in the first place (actionable advice that I can take into my life and make changes through work) and has gone to articles about what is wrong in the world; heres something for everyone: in every generation, there have been plenty of people that have thought the sky was falling. Its why we've lost so many members of high value that made a huge difference in this community. They got jaded, they couldn't take one more thread about "look at this woman getting a pussy pass" "Look at how we'll all never get married" and "feminists are ruining the west".

The fact of the matter is: We Are Men

That puts us in the same camp as all of these "communities" that I personally see as ONE community that is now infighting and loosing sight. This isn't North vs South or even Men vs. Women, it is humanity as a whole looking to get back the happiness and fulfillment that a generation ago was a no-fucking-brainer. I don't care about all of the political correctness, because I will act the same way I always have, and pass the shit test that so many betas fail in apologizing for the pettiest of social justice "crimes."

All of this is a waste of energy to be in-fighting with these groups. The fact remains that we push the same shit, who gives a fuck what we call it.

Work out
Eat Healthy
Approach Women and Have Sex with them, potentially find a good girl (they do still exist)
Build Yourself through education, business, a career, and hobbies that make you an interesting person.
Above all else, do what makes you happy and a better man.

It's really that simple, I don't see why we need to attack one another when we all push the same basic fundamentals.

[Darius]

(05-22-2015 08:37 PM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  

The fact is if one's sole income is to fight feminism or any one enemy. Then one is incentivized to perpetuate this war in order to make a living. A chief concern that I have for the Manosphere is that it becomes dependent upon the existence of fighting feminism in order to remain relevant. Hence we become so specialized in doing this one thing that our other skills atrophy and become unable to deal with new threats and challenges.

The problem is that unless you do it anonymously, you may lose your source of income.

We live in an era of thought crime, which can be punished by removal of your means of income.

It's almost necessary to monetize it or to have a source of income that isn't vulnerable to being taken away from you.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Dr . Howard nailed it. There is a mini war between the Blue Pill and Red Pill subreddits. It's the new cool thing as an internet warror to join the rivalry. I know so because my roomate is a Blue Pill fanatic who frequently infiltrates the Red Pill to post obscene lies. It's entertainment, not a genuine lifestyle change. There's no need to consider them at all. Let Reddit be Reddit.

I know when Scorpion and Lizard post I'm in for a good one.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Frankly all the beef is unnecessary.

1. The Red Pill reddit was of course using a platform that is virtually uncontrollable - you find plenty of men and women there who say crazy stuff. Who cares what they say? It's bullshit anyway criticizing 50$ talks in NYC while fully accepting 2000$ weekend workshops.

2. Red Pill seemed to attract everyone from PUAHATe Game hating crowd to traditional men.

3. Whether Rollo likes Roosh's Game advice or his "performance" at the Dr. Oz show is frankly irrelevant. Sure - it may be hurtful, but who cares?

4. Personally I don't understand the need to attack the evo-psych 'sphere terms. Sure - the terms are facsimiles of reality and Alpha/Beta is not going to be taken literally or seen in any comparison to lions/wolves or primitive humans. While some points seem to make sense from the lense of evolutionary psychology I am not completely sold. The terms used by the 'sphere of AlphaFucksBetaBucks, hypergamy, SMV etc. - make sense, but guys should realize that this is not a set quantifiable science. While it explains our dating lives better than conventional psychology, the reasons for all of this may be beyond evo-psych, but who cares really if it works?

I don't see much difference between the message portrayed at RationalMale vs. the one at rooshv.com. They styles and opinions on some subject diverge and certainly the strategies, but not the gist of the matter.

Anyone with his right mind can perceive the strengths and also weaknesses of men in the 'sphere. Personally I think just as in real life it is better to keep criticism to yourself, unless that person asks you for feedback - otherwise you end up with useless beef. It's useless, because those very same parties agree on 95%+ of things in those areas of life.

[AnonymousBosch]

(05-22-2015 08:37 PM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  

The fact is if one's sole income is to fight feminism or any one enemy. Then one is incentivized to perpetuate this war in order to make a living. A chief concern that I have for the Manosphere is that it becomes dependent upon the existence of fighting feminism in order to remain relevant. Hence we become so specialized in doing this one thing that our other skills atrophy and become unable to deal with new threats and challenges.

A while back I mentioned Roosh's personality type would prefer "breadth" of knowledge and influence.

Read this again:

What Is Neomaculinity?

The beauty of Neomasculinity is that it casts a wide net. It's not just fighting feminism: there's varied threads a man can investigate to improve himself, his partners and his community, because I'm telling you now, it's not just physical self-improvement and banging pussy - I've reached the end of that road, and I am still seeking more out of life.

One again, I mentioned Quintus' personality type would prefer "depth" of knowledge and influence.

He picks up the ball, starts running with it, and investigating the deeper expansion of each Theses and their worth for men:

Commentary on The Theses of Roosh V's Neomasculinity

If men can't read both of these articles, and see just how powerful this concept is and how defining a statement this is for a community that is mocked as 'uneducated dudebros' and derided as believing in nothing but 'Men's Rights' and 'tricking women into bed', then they belong on Reddit, being Queefsplained at by Veggie_Girl.

This is Martin Luther nailing his 95 Theses to the door of Castle Church. It's a founding document, whether or not anything comes of it. I'd like to think something will, and that I was here to see it happen.

I'm not hearing anyone else in the Manosphere or on Reddit coming up with such a clear conception of every angle of attack that is negating the happiness of the modern man, and, as such, it deserves to be re-read and considered. These are two of the smartest men I've ever interacted with, clearly and concisely offering you an entire way of considering your life to increase personal happiness. It's far from just sitting around, bitching about feminists.

The guys on TRP Subreddit have spent too long listening to SJW's and Paper Alphas, and it's dulled their minds.

[Ingocnito]

Roosh's platform and selflessness sold itself to me 4+ years ago. He wasn't overly complicated in his explanations, or overly scientific with every piece, every book, that the time added value of his efforts, his materials, lost the vote of my time to continue following. He also wasn't too simplistic and colloquial in projecting his message that it lost value either.

Let me provide and analogous explanation:

Like developing the motor engram of your nervous system during very heavy weight lifting exercises (low rep, high weight), Roosh took the path of making that nerve path very strengthened. Now he can back off the high weights and focus on developing the muscle surrounding that engram which isn't going away.

[Roosh]

My response video is compiling and then I will upload to YouTube.

[Mr West]

(05-22-2015 09:15 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Frankly all the beef is unnecessary.

1. The Red Pill reddit was of course using a platform that is virtually uncontrollable - you find plenty of men and women there who say crazy stuff. Who cares what they say? It's bullshit anyway criticizing 50$ talks in NYC while fully accepting 2000$ weekend workshops.

2. Red Pill seemed to attract everyone from PUAHATe Game hating crowd to traditional men.

3. Whether Rollo likes Roosh's Game advice or his "performance" at the Dr. Oz show is frankly irrelevant. Sure - it may be hurtful, but who cares?

4. Personally I don't understand the need to attack the evo-psych 'sphere terms. Sure - the terms are facsimiles of reality and Alpha/Beta is not going to be taken literally or seen in any comparison to lions/wolves or primitive humans. While some points seem to make sense from the lense of evolutionary psychology I am not completely sold. The terms used by the 'sphere of AlphaFucksBetaBucks, hypergamy, SMV etc. - make sense, but guys should realize that this is not a set quantifiable science. While it explains our dating lives better than conventional psychology, the reasons for all of this may be beyond evo-psych, but who cares really if it works?

I don't see much difference between the message portrayed at RationalMale vs. the one at rooshv.com. They styles and opinions on some subject diverge and certainly the strategies, but not the gist of the matter.

Anyone with his right mind can perceive the strengths and also weaknesses of men in the 'sphere. Personally I think just as in real life it is better to keep criticism to yourself, unless that person asks you for feedback - otherwise you end up with useless beef. It's useless, because those very same parties agree on 95%+ of things in those areas of life.

This is a very good point. While I think Rollo's comment's are a bit uncalled for, I personally, would not have cared what "The Red Pill" subreddit was saying about me had I being Roosh. Of course I understand where Roosh is coming from (considering the disproportionate response by so called "red pilled men") but it is the equivalent of not being liked by incel MGTOWs because you haven't given up on women or casual sex. What they think is irrelevant.

[tpiddy]

When I was 17 in 1999, I was reading odd websites and collections of usenet posts about speed seduction and characters that would end up in a book called the Game. I was a somewhat awkward computer geek, but internalizing these stories helped me develop with women and in the next year have success and finally get laid and start a relationship with an attractive girl. I directly attribute it to learning the basics of game. My interest in game and the male-centric spaces of the internet has waxed and waned over the years depending upon where I've been in life, but I've kept an eye on it.

The ideas and practices of self improvement and questioning parts of society have directly resulted in success in parts of my life. Roosh as you became a part of the community, I became a fan. I enjoy your writing and this forum has helped me take mini-retirements, travel internationally and develop in other ways.

I have watched this little cultural unit of the internet develop, multiply, evolve, and splinter over the years to where we are today, a political movement that has blasted through into the larger culture in various aspects over the years. Today it seems to be one focal point in a real cultural battle in major industries and areas such as gaming, science fiction, universities, and I'm sure part of the next presidential election will be shaped by soundbites and ideas being battled over in publications, twitter, reddit and forums like this.

I'm not at all a fan or follower of the red pill subreddit, but I do have some reservations about "neomasculinity" though. Will it create a litmus test? Personally, I don't really believe in apple cider vinegar. I'm naturally skeptical of most natural medicine, there is so much woo out there. I'm also a little confused. Does it promote going out and sticking your dick in everything or procreation in a traditional family?

I totally understand your desire to separate yourself, and RoK from other definitions and movements. The media is completely (over)reacting to statements you make and RoK articles. You have ended up a big part the cultural debate right now and people are misidentifying things as men's rights activists or pick-up artists. But, if you were at all curious, my advice would be to try to frame things more ideologically rather than as a manifesto or a laundry list of beliefs.

[Comte De St. Germain]

$50 for a lecture from someone who helped me out through his sites pfffffffftttt

I'm shelling out 10k a year to the American education system where I'm learning Jack shit from most of my professors.

[Roosh]

My response video:

[jariel]

(05-22-2015 12:35 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Charging 50 dollars in NYC is chump change. These guys are idiots

No doubt; people in the city pay 20x more than that to consultants to help them get their kids into the right preschool, if Roosh really wanted to cake up, he could do so.

(05-22-2015 12:23 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

This should be a teaching point for us. Any time you try to do something positive, expect hate and negativity from losers.

You're always on point, I just experienced that teaching point once again recently, it's definitely an appropriate warning; when you shine, someone else is going to try to bring in their darkness.

[cibo]

I think the thesis does a good job of separating itself ideologically from the red pull. Also Neomasculanity just sounds a lot better than a term from a 15 year old movie full of trench coats. Notice all the non manosphere sympathizers immediately got on onboard the new term.

That said, I can where the hate is coming from. Roosh tends to have a strong affect on where the manosphere is going. Much more than a whole forum of people on reddit and many of the blogs. He's a smart guy and people will be jealous of his success which was hard earned.

I think everyone would like to go down as the guy who wrote the doctrine of a new important ideology. The fact is Roosh does a lot of the things we want to do but don't for a number a reasons, some good, some bad. Through his life choices he's in position to provide leadership to a lot of men through the organizations he created (RVF, ROK, REXX). And frankly I'm glad he's here.

If anything, if you're not getting haters, you're not being awesome enough.

Also I hope he expands his talks to LA next time.

[Eskhander]

(05-22-2015 08:30 PM)memcpy Wrote:  

On a lighter note, still no response from the Meninists

WB on the girl but Meninist is a real thing?

What's the deal with Rational Male? Does he just copy Heartiste? Referencing the screencap Roosh posted. I have never heard that accusation before.

[Slim Shady]

(05-22-2015 08:20 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

To accuse such a man of being a "sellout" who is intent on monetizing other people's ideas seems absurd on its face.

You know what? I was actually hoping that Roosh was making a big profit on his World Tour and other such endeavors. That is why I bought a ticket.

Now he has already clarified that this isn't the case, but even if he were "selling out", think about who he is really selling out to: his own loyal supporters.

I have no problem with him "selling out" to us, because that means that he will keep providing us with services. It is better that he receive patronage from us than from feminist media overlords who will try to hijack the message.

It's like the argument: should we pay politicians higher wages so that they will be less tempted by lobbyists? If you have a smart and intelligent man making good decisions, fighting the good fight, and helping spread the message of truth, then why shouldn't we pay him more so that he can do a better job spreading the message?

Our world view, the truth, is on the precipice of making it onto the mainstream. The Dr. Oz show appearance, the Mad Max article going viral, etc means that more people are hearing about us. This means that the attacks will come harder and stronger. Roosh's name and face is out there, making him a target.

A little cash in his pocket is a good tool to help him fight these attacks, do more tours, and open more eyes.

For example, think of every dollar in his pocket from his tours and books as a contribution to the fight against feminists trying to put innocent young men in prison for fake rape. It's better to donate to Roosh than to your alma mater, which is directly going to fund feminist policies that ruin men's lives.


People who think money is no matter are fooling themselves. In fact I will extend it so far as to say that they have already admitted defeat. They believe that the fight against feminism and authoritarianism can not be won. By bad mouthing people who are actually fighting, these people have accepted a state of perpetual victimhood, and they like it. They like to have their little feminist approved subversive club where they can pretend like they are part of the fight, but really they never want to progress to the point where they can be truly free and non-anonymous. They like to quietly talk about how men are oppressed and blame their failures on it so that they will not have to take responsibility for themselves.

Sounds a lot like feminism.
------------------

P.S. Way to throw down the hammer in the response video Roosh..

[kerouac]

Women will do almost anything for an Alpha Male

Quote:

This was about 8 years ago. One of the football players I went to high school with slept with one of the teachers (28F). She was hot, but obviously past her prime and rapidly approaching the wall (she locked down her BB [39M] in marriage less than a year prior). The rumor spread like a wildfire because the AF couldn't keep his mouth shut about it, and eventually some SJW ratted them out. The police got involved because he was 17 and like 364 days old when it first happened.
She was not prosecuted because the AF's father refused to press charges and the "child" refused to testify against her in a court of law, obviously because what they did was consensual. Hubby didn't divorce her, as far as I'm aware.
Her actions were not without consquences. I went to one of the best public high schools in the country; the average teacher makes about $100k/year including benefits. She was fired after less than 4 years with the school district and surrendered her teaching certificate to the state.
So let's summarize.
She was willing to sacrifice 10 years of hard work (schooling from 18-24 to get her teaching certificate, and 4 years of work experience as a teacher at one of the best public schools in the country), a career easily making six figures, an extremely early retirement/pension, her reputation via media exposure, risk losing her BB marriage, risk becoming pregnant with the alpha male's child, risk assault and battery from a jealous husband, risk becoming a registered sex offender against minors, and risk going to jail for a long time.
All because she wanted to have access to alpha male dick once.
THAT is an example of some of the things that women will do for alpha males. But only for males that are alpha enough; beta males greatly disgust them.

Read this and try not to cringe.

Quote:

To be fair, powerful men like CEOs and politicians risk everything for a woman all the time.
Sex happens to be one of the three powerful survival forces (after self-defence and hunger) and very few are capable of ignoring it.

All I see is...

[WanderingSoul]

(05-22-2015 10:19 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I'm going to bed, but here's my response video while it still uploads:

It should be viewable in about 20 minutes.

[Augustus]

I just do not not understand people's fear of someone making a profit.

When I enjoy the work of an artist or writer I WANT to pay for their work. I view it as a way to thank and show appreciation to them.

I will gladly pay for a ticket for Roosh's lectures/books because I truly want him to get something for all that he provides.

As for the RedPill subreddit, Roosh said it best in his youtube response: its approved and moderated by feminist Ellen Pao. You would think that a "philosophy" that places so much importance on self-reliance wouldn't house their headquarters under that roof.

[Augustus]

(05-22-2015 11:20 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  

(05-22-2015 08:20 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

To accuse such a man of being a "sellout" who is intent on monetizing other people's ideas seems absurd on its face.

A little cash in his pocket is a good tool to help him fight these attacks, do more tours, and open more eyes.

For example, think of every dollar in his pocket from his tours and books as a contribution to the fight against feminists trying to put innocent young men in prison for fake rape. It's better to donate to Roosh than to your alma mater, which is directly going to fund feminist policies that ruin men's lives.

I echo these sentiments. "Monetization" has become a such a dirty word to some and much of TRP are showing their true socialist colors by freaking out over Roosh wanting to make a little bit of money.

[Samseau]

(05-22-2015 10:19 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I'm going to bed, but here's my response video while it still uploads:

It should be viewable in about 20 minutes.

One of your best vids; love the bold predictions and assertions.


Also, just so people understand something: how is Roosh selling out?

If Roosh were selling out, like Rollo claims, he'd be organizing a huge seminar for gays and women. THAT is selling out. Right now Roosh's world tour caters to the same group he's catered to for the past 10 years.

Seriously, selling out? What the hell are they talking about?! They don't even know what words mean apparently.

[jariel]

(05-22-2015 11:26 PM)kerouac Wrote:  

Women will do almost anything for an Alpha Male

Translation of all posts in noted thread:

[Zero]

And this is the reason so many men are failing in life now because we never stick up or come together as man. I seen women who never seen each other in life stick up for each other like their blood relatives. I think this thread should of been locked a long time ago because it serves no purpose but feeding the hungry beast what it wants. Also many here are mgtow and it seems soon as one is brought up people here try their hardest to throw shit on every single one. I associate more with mgtow but I bet you I still get my fair share of getting women, money, and live a comfortable lifestyle. May I ask again what was the purpose of this forum again? I don't think it was to feed other peoples ego up about how they feel about you. In real life would you really go ape shit if someone called you a name/or have a opinion of you? Of course not because its not even worth to entertain anyone who does not affect your life.