[XXL]

(05-17-2015 06:15 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 03:18 PM)XXL Wrote:  

@WIA

so called average player happens to meet
very attractive women. sometimes gets them. and rarely keeps them. but he's very good at whining on forums how different game is in the city/country where he fails

basically lack of consistency. every really cool cat i met could meet get and keep really hot girl relatively fast anywhere he went.

In my experience, that would make him an average guy, not an average player.

WIA

Hmm.. When I see an average I see a guy who is surprised when he even has a chance to meet a true hottie, feels super lucky when he gets her and isn't surprised at all when he loses her within 2 weeks period.

There is also one level above well rounded advanced player level which is puppet master level. It's when a guy can keep a very attractive girl [who gets hit on everywhere, facebook, mall, street, work, school] completely on the hook even though he's just a regular guy with nothing tangible going on for him that she can use to rationalize her choice to stay with him. That's the purest game skills. Nothing to shoot for really but still good source to learn from.

[PainPositive]

Being "advanced" is defined as "far on or ahead in the development process".

By that definition most guys on the forum are advanced when compared to the ordinary man.

For me, it's consistently banging the girls I want to bang. I.e. the best looking young woman in my vicinity.

[Nascimento]

One thing this thread seems to be missing is the mention of the all-important game concept of Vibe.

How do you carry yourself?
How do you appear to others?
How relaxed, how intriguing, how impressionable is your demeanour?
How do you make the women in your life or auditioning for a role feel around you?

Vibe is a concept we need to discuss more often. I believe there are a lot of components to it, and that it's loosely defined.

I am still far from being an 'advanced player' for lack of a better term myself. But, in any discussion of game epitome we must mention vibe, somewhere.

[Isaac Jordan]

Krauser in his initial podcast discusses the transition from intermediate to advanced game:

5:33: He starts by delineating the various stages (beginner, intermediate, advanced).

He defines the "beginner" stage as one in which much effort is expended for little or no gain. Similar to Kamikaze's post above, Krauser's "beginner" is one of conscious incompetence, in which a man knows he sucks at/needs to work at picking up women, but has yet to see any success from his approaches.

Intermediate would be banging roughly one new girl of reasonable quality every month, but having to work pretty hard for it (50-100 approaches/week). His intermediate player has the basics down, and is doing a decent job/seeing results, but he's working quite hard so the process is fairly inefficient. There's a nagging sense of "I hope this gets easier". This would correspond with the "conscious competence" quadrant.

The advanced player "basicallys get the game, deeply understands it, can deconstruct it, can change the model on the fly, knows exactly what he's up to, and his results show that". Unconscious competence, essentially. Krauser points out that it's difficult to use numbers, like "X number of lays/month", because as one becomes more advanced, they simply work less for each lay. It's not as big of a deal any more, as the ego isn't invested in getting a number/date/notch. He goes on to note how advanced players focus more on improving their strengths, as they've already minimized their weaknesses and find their time better spent perfecting their own particular style/niche.

The rest of the podcast is very much worth listening to, as are his others.

[Pride male]

Read this on some blog.

Beginner game : Cannot get girls, even those attracted to him. Approach anxiety, Elliot Rodgerism, no kino escalation, failing shit tests etc.

Intermediate game : Can only get girls who are already attracted to him. Social circle game, no cold approaches, settling for plain janes, oneitis, waiting for heavy handed IOIs, club and night game etc.

Advanced game : Can get girls interested in him as well as those not into him at first. Day game, cold approaches, hitting on married women, brushes off multiple rejections, persistence etc.

But personally I agree with what was said before. An advanced player is an all rounder. He ticks all the boxes. Looks, money, fame, sexual prowess and personality. E.g Leonardo Dicaprio.

[WestIndianArchie]

I'll take your word for it on Krauser. His concept of game is far different than mine.

WIA

[Moma]

For me, advanced game is someone who can achieve a consistent level of results with a wide range of lizards regardless of the environment and tools that they have on hand in which tools are:
1) Reasonable money and transport. This means they can achieve a near consistent level of lays from even taking public transport to a high end club.
2) Clothing or social status. They can have on basic clothing and be totally unknown in the location that they choose to operate but have enough tangibles to be able to pull. This would be akin to someone pulling decent lizards in India. I'm not expecting SNL but at least SWL (Same Week Lay) over there.

The individual would be getting the sex from a variety of lizards and not just be able to work their niche angles (black guys killing it with gingers and blondes or white guys killing it in Brasil etc). Their lays should come from 7s and highers from ALL races. Their lay report should be a pretty even spread rainbow list of 7s and higher of ALL races

The advanced game specialist should be able to actually have a group of lizards that hunt for him. Wing lizards, bisexuals and lesbians who he has fcuked a few times and now work for him to bring him more prey.

So in summary, a location independent, gamer with no niche who actually has the ability to semi pimp certain other lizards (except that they bring him more hos to fcuk as opposed to money) would be someone who has advanced game to me.

[Fortis]

(05-18-2015 05:24 PM)Moma Wrote:  

The individual would be getting the sex from a variety of lizards and not just be able to work their niche angles (black guys killing it with gingers and blondes or white guys killing it in Brasil etc). Their lays should come from 7s and highers from ALL races. Their lay report should be a pretty even spread rainbow list of 7s and higher of ALL races

Let's say a guy is only posting about being Indian and smashing blondes because that's what he wants? Would that mean his game isn't well rounded enough, or would you say that his game is advanced enough to suit his goals?

[memcpy]

Can get consistent threesomes without the use of fame-game.

Both girls should be hot. No points for 1hottie 1fugly.

[Moma]

(05-18-2015 05:42 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 05:24 PM)Moma Wrote:  

The individual would be getting the sex from a variety of lizards and not just be able to work their niche angles (black guys killing it with gingers and blondes or white guys killing it in Brasil etc). Their lays should come from 7s and highers from ALL races. Their lay report should be a pretty even spread rainbow list of 7s and higher of ALL races

Let's say a guy is only posting about being Indian and smashing blondes because that's what he wants? Would that mean his game isn't well rounded enough, or would you say that his game is advanced enough to suit his goals?

In my view, in order for him to be at an advanced level he has to be able to conquer all gamuts with his skill set. Each group that one targets requires a specific skill set and by being able to slay all races means that the player can change his hat seamlessly to seduce the target race.

It's like someone claiming an individual is the best NBA player in the world but that particular individual, although excelling at busting anyone's ass can only bust your ass in the low and high post, cannot dribble or hit three point shots.

An advanced player should have all round game and his portfolio should reflect his versatility.

[Fortis]

(05-18-2015 05:56 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 05:42 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 05:24 PM)Moma Wrote:  

The individual would be getting the sex from a variety of lizards and not just be able to work their niche angles (black guys killing it with gingers and blondes or white guys killing it in Brasil etc). Their lays should come from 7s and highers from ALL races. Their lay report should be a pretty even spread rainbow list of 7s and higher of ALL races

Let's say a guy is only posting about being Indian and smashing blondes because that's what he wants? Would that mean his game isn't well rounded enough, or would you say that his game is advanced enough to suit his goals?

In my view, in order for him to be at an advanced level he has to be able to conquer all gamuts with his skill set. Each group that one targets requires a specific skill set and by being able to slay all races means that the player can change his hat seamlessly to seduce the target race.

It's like someone claiming an individual is the best NBA player in the world but that particular individual, although excelling at busting anyone's ass can only bust your ass in the low and high post, cannot dribble or hit three point shots.

An advanced player should have all round game and his portfolio should reflect his versatility.

I see where you're coming from with the NBA example, but I'm not quite sure it is as applicable to game. I'm pretty sure a guy like Krauser doesn't game British lizards; he just games foreign chicks in Britain and abroad. This is not to say that I even think he's advanced (that's for everyone to decide on their own), but I think one can very much be an expert in a certain niche. Some brahs have no interest in certain lizards, and they wouldn't see it as necessary to learn to excel with those types. Me? I don't particularly like Latinas *Gasp*. So I probably won't be hitting up Colombia and mastering spanish to better dominate the latin market. On the other hand, I'm very interested in learning to excel with asian lizards, especially asian lizards abroad, so my study of game would naturally push me in that direction.

Going back to the NBA example: the world's best point guard might be a good shooting guard, but being an expert shooting guard probably isn't required to achieve mastery as a point guard.


I suppose what I am getting at is that Advanced game is where a man targets a niche, exploits his niche by tailoring himself to his targets and achieves consistent success in that market with above average lizards. I think a player might evolve beyond a niche and then begin to target another niche at some point, though.

Your points now have me thinking, Moma (as they often do).

[Moma]

Fortis, I still feel that advanced game is a well rounded player who can survive in any arena and achieve similar results. A man who has found his niche and specialises at that niche will be at a disadvantage if put in an 'unfamiliar' situation. Men who work niches are akin to those running social circle game, they eat because they are on 'familiar' turf.

I feel that a man with advanced game has a keen understanding of female psychology when it comes to extracting sexual favours from her and even more (but let's keep it within game for sex for now).
A man with advanced game knows female psychology well enough and has enough experience on the field that he can tweak this knowledge to bypass any cultural resistance i.e. the difference in gaming in Bombay as opposed to gaming in Bulgaria to extract consistent sexual rewards from lizards.

I personally don't feel that a man who is a giant within his niche can be considered one with advanced game since in this sense, the award of advanced game is an objective term as opposed to subjective.

[Noir]

This is an interesting topic, my thoughts are that it comes down to the internalization of everything happening real time. Reading the girl, the environment and knowing how to adapt.

High competency/automation of ALL of these qualities:

Social savviness: being able to read his environment and know exactly what the vibe is with each person. Knowing how to open, what to say, having the 'birthday boy vibe'. aware of all of the points below in real time and making minute adjustments in-set to harness and pump attraction levels.

Body language mastery: This is overlooked in my opinion but one of the most crucial. Adaptable and exuding confidence -> can read when women mirror or when their body language is off to steer the interaction.

Mastery of his intent: Can give one look to show his intentions, always met with eye-contact or looking down. Once meeting girls, can flirt, banter and ramp up the sexuality.

10/10 belief: Not a care in the world for failing as his opinion of himself is not rooted in 'game, almost delusional. Shit tests bounce off him.

Adaptability/opportunism: Can pull bangs out of any scenario i.e. best case scenario and utility of his time and energy. Can harness buying temperature, can identify logistics quickly and whether it will be an SNL or day2 kind of girl.

Quality: Consistent quality in line with own standards that are set high as he is self-defined in the top leagues -> self-entitlement.

Frame control: Unfaltering, non-negotiable, dominant, assertive and friendly. Hit with a lot of shit tests as women cannot believe he is the real deal, forfeiting said shit tests 5-10 minutes into interaction once the 'courting turbulence'/'walk the walk' phase is passed. (in line with 10/10 belief)

Using his strengths to his benefit: Picks ideal environments for his strengths, showcases his most attractive side to girls he knows will be attracted akin to a venn diagram intersecting.

Outcome independent: This is a natural, internalized process in which he is fully calibrated, fearless.

In control of his sexual energy and vibe to project what he wants: Can elicit sexual emotions from the beginning through engaging her senses (touch/smell/visual/aural etc.) and lead accordingly.

Post-bang conversion: Women want him in their life, consistently due to his authenticity and ability to make everything seem natural.


Leading to

Results = % of success + high quality of women

In my opinion, 70% upward of pulling girls he has spoken to for more than 60 seconds of whom he has the intent of banging, either by cold approach or introduction etc. on a consistent basis, regardless of environment and peers.

[swuglyfe]

(05-19-2015 11:51 AM)Noir Wrote:  

This is an interesting topic, my thoughts are that it comes down to the internalization of everything happening real time. Reading the girl, the environment and knowing how to adapt.

High competency/automation of ALL of these qualities:

Social savviness: being able to read his environment and know exactly what the vibe is with each person. Knowing how to open, what to say, having the 'birthday boy vibe'. aware of all of the points below in real time and making minute adjustments in-set to harness and pump attraction levels.

Body language mastery: This is overlooked in my opinion but one of the most crucial. Adaptable and exuding confidence -> can read when women mirror or when their body language is off to steer the interaction.

Mastery of his intent: Can give one look to show his intentions, always met with eye-contact or looking down. Once meeting girls, can flirt, banter and ramp up the sexuality.

10/10 belief: Not a care in the world for failing as his opinion of himself is not rooted in 'game, almost delusional. Shit tests bounce off him.

Adaptability/opportunism: Can pull bangs out of any scenario i.e. best case scenario and utility of his time and energy. Can harness buying temperature, can identify logistics quickly and whether it will be an SNL or day2 kind of girl.

Quality: Consistent quality in line with own standards that are set high as he is self-defined in the top leagues -> self-entitlement.

Frame control: Unfaltering, non-negotiable, dominant, assertive and friendly. Hit with a lot of shit tests as women cannot believe he is the real deal, forfeiting said shit tests 5-10 minutes into interaction once the 'courting turbulence'/'walk the walk' phase is passed. (in line with 10/10 belief)

Using his strengths to his benefit: Picks ideal environments for his strengths, showcases his most attractive side to girls he knows will be attracted akin to a venn diagram intersecting.

Outcome independent: This is a natural, internalized process in which he is fully calibrated, fearless.

In control of his sexual energy and vibe to project what he wants: Can elicit sexual emotions from the beginning through engaging her senses (touch/smell/visual/aural etc.) and lead accordingly.

Post-bang conversion: Women want him in their life, consistently due to his authenticity and ability to make everything seem natural.


Leading to

Results = % of success + high quality of women

In my opinion, 70% upward of pulling girls he has spoken to for more than 60 seconds of whom he has the intent of banging, either by cold approach or introduction etc. on a consistent basis, regardless of environment and peers.

This man sounds like a motherfucking Jedi Master. Completely aware of his surroundings at all times, able to read a person instantly, tailor perfectly, never miss a beat.

[WestIndianArchie]

This discussion is trending towards mastery.

Not sure how I feel about that direction.

WIA

[CH-Toronto]

(05-18-2015 08:26 AM)Nascimento Wrote:  

One thing this thread seems to be missing is the mention of the all-important game concept of Vibe.

How do you carry yourself?
How do you appear to others?
How relaxed, how intriguing, how impressionable is your demeanour?
How do you make the women in your life or auditioning for a role feel around you?

Vibe is a concept we need to discuss more often. I believe there are a lot of components to it, and that it's loosely defined.

I am still far from being an 'advanced player' for lack of a better term myself. But, in any discussion of game epitome we must mention vibe, somewhere.

Isn't "vibe" more or less "frame"? It seems the two have a strong correlation at the very least.

(05-18-2015 12:48 PM)Pride male Wrote:  

Read this on some blog.

Beginner game : Cannot get girls, even those attracted to him. Approach anxiety, Elliot Rodgerism, no kino escalation, failing shit tests etc.

Intermediate game : Can only get girls who are already attracted to him. Social circle game, no cold approaches, settling for plain janes, oneitis, waiting for heavy handed IOIs, club and night game etc.

Advanced game : Can get girls interested in him as well as those not into him at first. Day game, cold approaches, hitting on married women, brushes off multiple rejections, persistence etc.

But personally I agree with what was said before. An advanced player is an all rounder. He ticks all the boxes. Looks, money, fame, sexual prowess and personality. E.g Leonardo Dicaprio.

The levels here seem like they should all be dropped back one. (Beginner would be "no game", Intermediate would be beginner etc)

Leo is an anomaly because he's a celebrity, but without that status he would still be killing it.

[Moma]

WIA, I think that any skillset involving manipulation of humans in a social sense will involve mastery. To the novice, it may seem like mastery but it's really an exhibition of a higher competence in the particular type of skill. The same baseline can be applied to brilliant orators, superb salesmen. The advanced gamer should be an empath to a certain level where he leverages an intimate understanding of female emotions to extract sexual favours in the most efficient fashion.

His secular experience should be advanced enough that he can bypass cultural barriers and continue to manipulate emotions for his sexual yield. His sexual portfolio MUST reflect this. Anything higher than 59% of his preference on his career lay report will suggest he is working a niche angle and niche workers can NOT be considered at an advanced level of game.

[Moma]

Ch-Toronto, how do you know Leo would be 'killing' it as a non celebrity?

[MY DETROIT PLAYAS]

Moma successfully captured the essence in most of it's iterations as it pertains to women IMO

I would just add that Advanced players can:

- determine/manipulate a chick's "buying" temperature through tried and tested methods
- makes use of various algorithms to weed out time wasters, obstacles to his sexual goals
- capable of not only getting the girl but keeping her around
- "predict" favorable/unfavorable outcomes based on behavior patterns/cues
- knows when to walk away from an high risk/low reward situation

*Also being "Advanced" isn't just numbers/lays based, part of having an advanced understanding sometimes involves knowing when to walk away

[WestIndianArchie]

@Moma

Mastering addition and subtraction is different from doing differential equations and more advanced mathematics.

Better, faster, less effort, more situations, is what people are calling advanced game.

If that's all it is, to me there's not a difference between mastery and advanced game.

Still, I'm sure you've had a come to Jah moment, where you catch yourself going through the motions, and your dime piece is moving every moment of it - and you're like nah, this is not it. Your body language changes and people immediately start to react differently.

I might be asking the wrong question and getting answers that don't give me any insight.


WIA

[Nascimento]

(05-19-2015 12:45 PM)CH-Toronto Wrote:  

Isn't "vibe" more or less "frame"? It seems the two have a strong correlation at the very least.

No, they are very different things.

[CH-Toronto]

(05-19-2015 01:00 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Ch-Toronto, how do you know Leo would be 'killing' it as a non celebrity?

You're right I have no idea, but in terms of celebrities who have an 'ounce' of game he's up there. I think most have NO idea the effort needed for "normal" (non celebrity) people.

I think it was this story that made me think otherwise
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/art...inner.html

[Moma]

WIA, I don't think one can ever master game. There are too many variables and when it comes to human psychology, you can get better at understanding and controlling it but never to the point when you have complete mastery over it. Let's remove the term mastery from trying to understand the definition as the semantics are leading people askew. I agree with MDP's definition of advanced game being the ability to know when to leave. Qualifying a situation is an important part of game, yes.

[Pride male]

Are we all agreeing that advanced game is mainly about quality? As in, the advanced player only fucks dimes, 8s and 9s and no less than occasional 7?

[MrXY]

My definition is a pragmatic, results oriented one.

I consider a player to have an advanced level of pure game when he is capable of consistently getting SNLs from cold approach. I would include daygamers who make a quick hit to get a number and then set up a meeting with a girl another day to be in this group. The test is the ability to move a girl from being unaware of your existence to allowing your penis in her vagina within a few hours at most and being able to repeat this task consistently. By consistently, I don't mean every single time he goes out to cold approach, but at least every 3-4 evenings.