[WestIndianArchie]

(05-19-2015 08:24 PM)Dantes Wrote:  

(05-19-2015 08:19 PM)Kaizen Wrote:  

It's a mathematical formula:

B/A Ratio. (Bangs/Approaches)

The higher the number, the greater the player.

Kaizen,

I agree but Quality has to be factored in.

As I mentioned before, Game is results driven. Your level of Game is determined by your success with consistently pulling high quality women over a long period of time. It shouldn't be more complicated than this.

So in your view, all that advanced game is basically the most efficient over time?

With that in mind, then most guys who've been doing this for 6 months know everything they need to know. The rest of it is just ironing out the details.
- Couple more lbs of muscle,
- couple drops of body fat %,
- move closer to the hot spots
- tweak the clothing style a bit
- make a few club promoter/bar tender friends

Pack on a couple dozen notches, and the player has the basic wherewithal to ferret out the time wasters, focus on the chicks that are DTF, and just ratchet his way up the "quality" list.

= Advanced Game - smoother pick up of hotter girls.

My problem is that I can't offer you a coherent but different conceptual framework.

But part of you has to believe that there's more to it than that, right?

Or am I alone on this one?

WIA

[CH-Toronto]

(05-19-2015 08:24 PM)Dantes Wrote:  

(05-19-2015 08:19 PM)Kaizen Wrote:  

It's a mathematical formula:

B/A Ratio. (Bangs/Approaches)

The higher the number, the greater the player.

Kaizen,

I agree but Quality has to be factored in.

As I mentioned before, Game is results driven. Your level of Game is determined by your success with consistently pulling high quality women over a long period of time. It shouldn't be more complicated than this.

Quantity means nothing if the quality is low. I don't understand how some people here are saying, "Quality shouldn't be a factor".

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-19-2015 10:55 PM)CH-Toronto Wrote:  

(05-19-2015 08:24 PM)Dantes Wrote:  

(05-19-2015 08:19 PM)Kaizen Wrote:  

It's a mathematical formula:

B/A Ratio. (Bangs/Approaches)

The higher the number, the greater the player.

Kaizen,

I agree but Quality has to be factored in.

As I mentioned before, Game is results driven. Your level of Game is determined by your success with consistently pulling high quality women over a long period of time. It shouldn't be more complicated than this.

Quantity means nothing if the quality is low. I don't understand how some people here are saying, "Quality shouldn't be a factor".

I don't think anyone is seriously arguing that point.

Quantity of bangs of Quality Girls/Time = skill of a player.

That's how I would read it.

I still think skill, mastery, and these other trails aren't "advanced", just efficient and effective.

But if gobs of hotties with the greatest of ease isn't "advanced" game....
If banging playboy models on the regular basis is just maximizing what you have, maybe there is no such thing as advanced game.

That's an interesting theoretical point, in practice it means that players young and old, newb and vet, will get better results by focusing on the basics, rather than trying to do anything new or different.

That's where this conversation leads.

WIA

[Moma]

CH-Toronto, the thing about quality is that it means different things for different guys. The only way to reduce this uncertainty of quality is for the advanced game specialist to have a diverse portfolio to reduce doubt.

I, for instance, I have little interest in the white lizards being constantly broadcasted on the forum. Everyone raves about Ukraine and Eastern Europe but I don't get overly excited. DR or Africa excites me far more and the ability to tear down those region would send me into a frenzy.

If I were constantly only pulling '8's' looking like the ones in the Excelsior black lizard thread (females with a crazy hip to ass ratio), how many guys would give me the crown? I'm sure it would be a minority.

Now, if I was hitting 59 percent of those and then mixing my other lays between Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Hungary, India, Latin America, it would be harder to dispute my rank as an advanced gamer.

[Moma]

Archie, I couldn't give the crown to a player if he was only banging gobs of hotties in his own circle. If I saw the guy travel thousands of miles away, integrating multiple cultures and continue to reap similar results then I would feel that he deserves the crown of advanced game.

Banging gob of hotties in his own city just means he has mastered his niche.

It's akin to a basketball player who scores and dominates on an indoor court with referees but takes a huge hit on his scoring average when playing on an outdoor court with wind influences, more contact and no calls.
The principles of ball are still there but the environment is different and requires an overall strong skillset to dominate than have a niche angle.

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-19-2015 11:17 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Archie, I couldn't give the crown to a player if he was only banging gobs of hotties in his own circle. If I saw the guy travel thousands of miles away, integrating multiple cultures and continue to reap similar results then I would feel that he deserves the crown of advanced game.

Banging gob of hotties in his own city just means he has mastered his niche.

It's akin to a basketball player who scores and dominates on an indoor court with referees but takes a huge hit on his scoring average when playing on an outdoor court with wind influences, more contact and no calls.
The principles of ball are still there but the environment is different and requires an overall strong skillset to dominate than have a niche angle.

Bo Jackson vs Michael Jordan?

To me, there's nothing particularly *advanced* about
- quantity
- quality

Travel adds a wrinkle to the mix, in that if you're not running game in your
- native language
- native culture

AND you're scoring with top level broads - you truly get the game. You've got a solid skillset, you're not working with the typical crutches, you're connecting with a chick DESPITE everything.

But a common complaint (hatred really) about the foreign conquests is that
- she might look good, but she's poor, she's low status.

So either she's looking for a payday, a passport, or has a gringo fetish.
It takes skill to stand above all the other gringos and love tourists - but that rarely satisfies the haters within OUR community. Usually there's the general white/light skin bias in that discussion, but that's neither here nor there.

Connecting with a foreign chick of the middle or upper class, despite having everything against you does require a deep understanding of when a girl is in to you, when's she's feeling you. I'll grant you that.

But is that advanced?

Is that what advanced game is?

Pushing away all of the noise, you know what buttons to push, how to lead, and when you're getting somewhere with a so-called "high quality" chick.

Is that how we're/you/the forums is defining advanced game?

My same point still stands, in that you're just adding a two 10 digit numbers together.

1,845,812,354
+ 8,657,982,316

Tedious to do by hand, but it's not really much different than adding 44+56

It's simple math, not calculus, not euler equations, not fractals.

The higher maths allow you to explore different things and talk in a new language and have new thoughts which leads to other insights.

But by dint of this discussion, "advanced" game doesn't seem to offer that at all.

Something in my gut, in my experience says that is wrong. But no really good counter examples spring to mind, so I'm thinking the simple math guys are carrying the day.

Advanced game is really just more efficient basic game.

WIA

[Moma]

Archie, if it's so simple, how come there are no live examples of those with 'advanced game'? The key requirements that I mentioned have been achieved by no one. We have no Bang India (language is not an issue there as Indians speak English). People dodge Toronto and DC in droves. There is no fantastic lay report written on those 'tough' cities in the 21st century and definitely not in the last five years.

To me, when something has been simplified, it's easily or easier accomplished. So why have the requirements I laid out not been met? Is it due to the lack of desire or the tendency for people to relax when they have discovered their niche?

We can simplify it conceptually all we want and reduce its awe by using basic naming convention but if no one has gotten to that level then as far as I'm concerned, it qualifies as advanced.

[The_CEO]

When she thinks "team appetizer" means buying appetizers for you?

[Ingocnito]

Advanced game is control. That may mean High #s, or high quality, or both. It might mean staying power, or ability to attract women to the extent they're approaching you.

At any rate, it's rooted in having a greater level of control of your outcome.

So I poise this question; Do you have to even be a "player" per se, to have advanced game? Maybe "advance game" is being able to turn off the energy draining efforts "game" takes, but rather turn it on/off with extremely focused precision when needed to get similar results to someone whose 24/7 in game mode.

If I approach 50 women (all 7s) and bang 3 of them, but another guy approaches 10 women (all 7s) and bangs 3 of them.. is he more likely to have advance game? Just a thought.

[Apollo21]

That's right. If you define game as "skill"...and there's a real point
at which your performance yields exactly the same results(quality,quantity, minimum time etc)
then no matter whether you've been doing it for six months or six years means
that you've optimized the process...changing up the variables won't advance your game
it just resets the switch.

However what you can advance is your understanding of game, its dynamics
the interplay, the psychology etc...it's like driving a car...once you get to a certain
skill level, the car is going to drive exactly the same.

Now you can start studying how the car works and advance your understanding
of all the technical details...however you're still going to get the same result when you
drive the car.

[bradz]

In my eyes - Advanced game means you bring home a [fairly] good looking girl almost every time you go out [with the intention of picking up and bringing a girl home].

[Octavian]

(05-19-2015 11:12 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-19-2015 10:55 PM)CH-Toronto Wrote:  

(05-19-2015 08:24 PM)Dantes Wrote:  

(05-19-2015 08:19 PM)Kaizen Wrote:  

It's a mathematical formula:

B/A Ratio. (Bangs/Approaches)

The higher the number, the greater the player.

Kaizen,

I agree but Quality has to be factored in.

As I mentioned before, Game is results driven. Your level of Game is determined by your success with consistently pulling high quality women over a long period of time. It shouldn't be more complicated than this.

Quantity means nothing if the quality is low. I don't understand how some people here are saying, "Quality shouldn't be a factor".

I don't think anyone is seriously arguing that point.

Quantity of bangs of Quality Girls/Time = skill of a player.

That's how I would read it.

I still think skill, mastery, and these other trails aren't "advanced", just efficient and effective.

But if gobs of hotties with the greatest of ease isn't "advanced" game....
If banging playboy models on the regular basis is just maximizing what you have, maybe there is no such thing as advanced game.

That's an interesting theoretical point, in practice it means that players young and old, newb and vet, will get better results by focusing on the basics, rather than trying to do anything new or different.

That's where this conversation leads.

WIA

Phew..glad we settled that one. How about we all go out and make some approaches then?

[WestIndianArchie]

You don't have to participate if you don't want to.

WIA

[CH-Toronto]

(05-19-2015 11:12 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Now, if I was hitting 59 percent of those and then mixing my other lays between Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Hungary, India, Latin America, it would be harder to dispute my rank as an advanced gamer.

Now, you're absolutely right. To be skilled in a variety of different environments/surroundings has to be factored.

[s3k]

A lot of variables to include to diffrentiate game and advanced game. Good question WIA. After reading most of he answer, most vering off of the question, I beliebve kamakaze came the closest. To me, being able to lay a quality chick subconciously at a relatively older age would be advanced game in my book. This is assuming you are just an "average joe". Than cone the varibles of luck, quality, quantity, conversational skills, looks etc etc which I won't get into. To keep it basic, gaming chicks subconciously (while thinking who going to win the golden state warriors series) and coming out with the lay more times than not, would be "advanced game".

[Noir]

I think people are missing the mark with what makes you advanced in game what is advanced game itself.

[WestIndianArchie]

@Noir, I have my theories as to why people are supplanting, cause I run into this a lot.

On a different board there is a question about how you cope with a hot chick that is boring you to tears.

The answers to me is clear. It's so clear to me what the problem is that it hurts

This question, people keep repeating the same idea,

I do what I do now, just better.

It's as if they aren't really reading all the other people saying the exact same thing. Or taking into account what I've said to other people who keep saying it.

That in turn bleeds into general forum psychology.

The pit bulls won't let the bone loose. All I can really do is let the post die, and come at my question from a new angle at a later time.

WIA

[Moma]

Archie, what kind of answer are you expecting? You don't seem satisfied as of yet with the definition. Perhaps you have expectations of game so high that a practical definition doesn't suffice for the bracket you have it in.

[WestIndianArchie]

I'm expecting an exploration of the idea.
I'm expecting novelty, new ideas, new insights from a group of guys who have been around the block.

What I'm getting back is more of the same, no matter how I ask the question or offer more clarification.

It could be that there is no such thing as advanced game, it's just internalizing the basics, practice, experience, and refinement. But there is nothing bigger than that.

I just can't accept that, even though it seems everyone else has.

WIA

[Moma]

I think it has been expanded quite significantly. Although it seems as though we speak of refinement, I actually haven't seen anyone with advanced game. There is no one that I've heard of that has performed at that level. So as easy as it seems in discussion, it's the pie in the sky that we all reach for but cannot accomplish.
That's why there is always discussion on it, it's the carrot in front of the donkey.

[s3k]

There is something bigger than that, become famous and rich. Other than fame and fortune I don't think the definition of "advanced game" won't be any diffrent from this thread.

[Lizard King]

I was thinking about this thread a few days ago when I was on a date.

I made a really bad error during our interaction, and then my mind went elsewhere, and I thought that was a big fuck up, if I was advanced, I would have known not to say that. Instead of saying what I did, I would have agreed and cajoled her, making her feel like her idea was great.

She was saying how she wanted a relationship that lasted forever(or some other crap), and I stupidly said 'all relationships end at some point', then I got carried away and said how the soul mate concept was a myth that holds people back and causes them to be unhappy. She simply could not understand the theories I was expounding, she wasn't very intelligent.

A lesson learned, but it made me realise that avoiding stuff like that would just come naturally to a more advanced guy.

[Moma]

Lizard, I'm the same way, sometimes we let our intellect play too much of a part in our lizardly encounters. These days I tend to keep silent or just nod pensively.
S3k, there are different types of game as Archie mentioned some threads ago. When one enters the spheres of fame and fortune, offense changes to defense. Lizards will pursue you because really as a man with power, fame, fortune, what does a lizard have to match that up with? Nothing, just a nice firm arse, proper tits and a juicy pussy.
Entrapment will be what one looks out for as she may seem to betroth the man emotionally and/or financially, depending on what part of the world one is in and the type of social infrastructure behind her when she makes her moves.

So are we talking about advanced game covering defense and offense or is it just offense?

[Menace]

WIA, who in the world do you think has advanced game (or had advanced game, if he is dead), and how do you know that the has it?

[Cyr]

(05-19-2015 03:28 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

@Cyr. By giving a definition you understand what the original post is about. There's no right answer, much less a prize. It's a post about thinking if it has any ulterior purpose.

Cold reading to me is just a tool. Carnival barkers and con men aren't any better at reading details and speaking truisms than a regular guy could be.

As to the homie Linux, he's running direct game and reaping the rewards. There are a whole lot of naysayers in that post saying what he is doing can't be done by regular guys.

True, but to me what separates Linux from the average youngish guy with a good physique is that he has the balls to fly to Colombia and make it happen. Plus he seems to enjoy what he's doing, not grinding for notches. That's why he's special. But he's not like a one in billion player. What he is doing is attainable. He spells out everything he's doing. a blueprint to Pussy. He's a guy, just like me and you. Comrades Fisto and 20Nation did the same.

Dan Blizerian, Leonardo DiCaprio, George Clooney, etc those guys are rich, ~young, and famous and desirable. That's hard to replicate. That takes years and a whole lotta luck.

WIA

I've been thinking about this over the last couple of days.
It's hard to define advanced game as opposed to mastery (with mastery being most of the definitions in this thread so far and exemplified by someone like Fisto).
If there is advanced game, I think it's conscious fame game- working to become famous and switch from offensive to defensive game- as Moma described earlier.

Or a guy like Distant Light. He is clearly having a lot of success with women, but his game doesn't really come down to percentages- it doesn't conform to our idea of mastery.
So I would define advanced game as game outside of or above our idea of mastery- moving beyond approach success rates and turning the tables.