[Hardy Daytona]

As Roosh advised when I first read Bang and Day Bang, I needed a tangible goal to work towards. Something definite that I could measure and take steps to complete while improving myself and my game skills at the same time, albeit personal or with interaction.

So, I decided to write a note in my wallet to constantly remind myself so that I'd see it every time I opened it. It reads: 'I'm going to have sex with a girl in my bed and fall asleep next to her.' (Leaps and bounds huh?)

That's been there for about 6 months I think and I'm no closer to making it happen. Or if I am it's not something I've made measurable progress to.

I keep telling myself that it's because I've got more important things to do, like finding employment so I can stop eating into my savings or finish working on my quasi-novel or focus on my workouts at the gym. While those might be mitigating circumstances I feel like they're excuses. Hell, that's what they are.
The truth is that I can't get over my AA.
I was going out every Friday night to a pretty local club and doing my best to approach. Well, what could be considered my best by my standards. Usually it involved hanging around outside, ushering into conversation by asking if they've got a light and then (so I've been told) mini-bouncing by just staying put. But nothing ever comes from it.
Again, I try to tell myself it's because I don't have the experience to break groups of multiple women or the music's too loud or too much time's passed or whatever. But again, I just get scared.

Now that I think about it, I haven't really gotten over the whole fear of intimacy thing. And I don't mean that psychologically, I mean physically. Last time I had a girl down there my entire forearms were cold and sweaty with the tingle sensation.

I know the best way to overcome AA and reach my goal is to go out and approach but that...I mean it just defies logic. It's like saying the best way to overcome your fear of going out and getting shot in the streets is to go out and get shot in the streets.

Every time I think about it I get that gut-wrenching sensation in the pit of my stomach and then I pussy out, even if it's something as simple as an elderly opener.
Then the inevitable regret and self-loathing comes into play.
But I've been dealing with it for so long that it's gotten comfortable - like old leather. Routine almost. See a pretty girl, glance at her tits or ass, imagine fucking her, contemplate multiple scenarios of interaction, pass her by, hate myself, deal with it, rinse & repeat.

To be honest, I feel like a fraud. Yes I'm dressing better and I'm in arguably the best physical shape of my life from lifting but I haven't changed. I'm still just a beta but now I'm in alpha clothing.

Or maybe that's not true. Maybe because I've made a conscious effort to at least try it means.....something. Hell, I don't know. At this point I just need to have it spelled out in black and white.
I guess I made this thread so I could get some well-deserved beration. Get righteously called out for my weakness with lashings of advice or visualization techniques or something.
This is starting to sound too much like a pity party so I'll stop there.

[Geekzor]

(04-23-2015 07:00 AM)Hardy Daytona Wrote:  

I know the best way to overcome AA and reach my goal is to go out and approach but that...I mean it just defies logic. It's like saying the best way to overcome your fear of going out and getting shot in the streets is to go out and get shot in the streets.

If you get shot there is a big chance that you'd die, but if you approach and fail, what is the worst that can happen? she'll ignore you? she'll give you a weird look? she will walk away? she will give you the middle finger? ALL of that is not the same as getting shot. Don't be hard on yourself, you've already came a long way since you're dressing better and in a good physical shape. You are changing for the better and even if you think that the change is slow, just imagine how you were 6 month ago.

AA is a bitch, everyone knows that but seriously the only way to get over it is to just approach and don't overthink about the consequences. It's not like you're going to pull a gun on a girl or slap her, you're simply going to say hi, or ask a question. how bad could it be? Just approach even if you fail on all of your approaches you'll start to realize that there is actually nothing to worry about and you'll get the confidence to keep going. What is better? to go home and drown in self loathing and regret? or approach and start somewhere to overcome your AA? Do the later and trust me, you'll feel so much better. Cheers and keep going hard.

[Dalaran1991]

(04-23-2015 07:00 AM)Hardy Daytona Wrote:  

The truth is that I can't get over my AA.

Now that I think about it, I haven't really gotten over the whole fear of intimacy thing. And I don't mean that psychologically, I mean physically. Last time I had a girl down there my entire forearms were cold and sweaty with the tingle sensation.

I know the best way to overcome AA and reach my goal is to go out and approach but that...I mean it just defies logic. It's like saying the best way to overcome your fear of going out and getting shot in the streets is to go out and get shot in the streets.

Thats a silly comparison. AA is an irrational fear that has no based upon real, perceivable danger and is in fact hampering your road to success. Whereas if you are not afraid of getting shot you are fucking stupid. If you are equating approaching girl with getting shot I think we have a problem

Quote:

So, I decided to write a note in my wallet to constantly remind myself so that I'd see it every time I opened it. It reads: 'I'm going to have sex with a girl in my bed and fall asleep next to her.' (Leaps and bounds huh?)

This is good, but starts small. I will approach a new girl every day is good. Then move on to getting number, then dates, then make out, then sex. Like Gio said, you cant start getting results after even one year. This takes work but its worth it.

Quote:

I was going out every Friday night to a pretty local club and doing my best to approach. Well, what could be considered my best by my standards. Usually it involved hanging around outside, ushering into conversation by asking if they've got a light and then (so I've been told) mini-bouncing by just staying put. But nothing ever comes from it.
Again, I try to tell myself it's because I don't have the experience to break groups of multiple women or the music's too loud or too much time's passed or whatever. But again, I just get scared.

If you want progress quickly this is not enough. Roosh went out 5 days a week when he started while having a full time job. So did many other high repped members here. I'm not saying we should all do that, no. I'm saying you should not expect quick progress if you cant invest significant effort in it. Game is one of the most honest mesures of your character and effort in life as I've found. It will give you back exactly what you put in.


I dont do well in bar neither and there’s opportunity costs to night game. I strongly suggest you find a new hobby where you can learn something new AND meet women at the same time. Dancing, cooking, painting etc.


Its totally normal to feel hatred towards yourself and even the world at large at the beginning. Sometimes you will even wonder what you are becoming. Thats totally normal and in fact that pain is necessay, just like going to the gym will make you sore at first. Deal with it and keep going. The changes you experience will transform your life.


You have this forum which is an invaluable assets to both your moral and technique. You will be fine.

[Sonoma]

1. Use dating apps to work on your game. Even use fake, throwaway accounts just to try things out

2. Say hello to EVERYONE. Not just the hot girl youre scared of talking to, but the clerk, the cashier, the old man

3. Find like minded friends to help you out and to go out with

[seneca]

^ I can attest to #3 here. Finding game-aware guys who either don't have or have found a way to successfully overcome their AA will help your cause immensely. It's a lot harder to puss out on an approach when the crew you're with is opening sets left and right.

As much as I respect the virtues of self-discipline and motivation from the inside, sometimes it helps to have accountability coming from the outside.

[Cheetah]

^^^^

And I can attest to #2.

It's very good to be talkative with everyone, then you will be in the mood and it will come more naturally to talk to the ones you are actually attracted to.

[Hardy Daytona]

It happened again this afternoon. The worst part is that it wasn't even an approach.
I was in the locker getting changed after my workout when a couple of guys came in. I overheard their conversation and they started talking about a friend of theirs. Some guy who was going through a rough patch after breaking up with his bit. Apparently threatened suicide blah blah blah.
I was going to suggest that they pass on the number of c.a.l.m. (the Campaign Against Living Miserably - anti-suicide charity that helps men under 45 in the UK) but I couldn't do it. Just stood there dumbly playing out the scenarios again before pussying out. Worst part is I might have helped someone if I did.

Quote:

If you get shot there is a big chance that you'd die, but if you approach and fail, what is the worst that can happen? she'll ignore you? she'll give you a weird look? she will walk away? she will give you the middle finger?

Well I don't interact much these days on account of being unemployed and not wanting to eat into my savings too much.
For the most part its limited to when I travel to/from the gym and job interviews. I keep imagining that if I approach too close to home and screw up that word will spread and I'll be stigmatized. If I screw up on the bus then I'll be banned from riding it. If I screw up at the gym I'll be expelled and have to find another one.
All statistically unlikely but it doesn't mitigate the fear.

Quote:

What is better? to go home and drown in self loathing and regret? or approach and start somewhere to overcome your AA?

I've done the former so much it's practically my modus operandi

Quote:

1. Use dating apps to work on your game. Even use fake, throwaway accounts just to try things out

I have. Radio silence.

Quote:

2. Say hello to EVERYONE. Not just the hot girl you're scared of talking to, but the clerk, the cashier, the old man

It's easy if they initiate. Hell, it's the easiest thing in the world. But crossing over the threshold and starting the interaction? I'd rather buy a tarantula, and I'm an arachnophobe.
That'd probably be a doozie for the pet shop line.

Quote:

3. Find like minded friends to help you out and to go out with

I do not have fond memories or experiences with wingmen. I always remember that one time when I ended up crashing on a random person's sofa after a night out having to listen to the noises coming from the next sofa over of my wingman and the bit I was interested in. Fucking pathetic.


Alright this isn't helping. Self-beration isn't the way to go. I'm me and insulting myself isn't going to help me get myself out of a rut. I need to start being proactive and taking steps to help deal with this.
I've got a workout program going so now I need something similar here.
What works for me is an external goal to work towards with tangible consequences that doesn't fall into the comparing-myself-to-impossible-and-invisible-standards-of-other-users category.

Right here's what I'm going to do.
Every day next week I'm going to go to my local supermarket and when I'm getting something for dinner I'm going to....oh, what's a good elderly line....Got it. I'm going to leave my watch at home and ask for the time. It's baby steps I know but I've got to start at the beginning if I'm going to have any progress undoing this goddamn programming.

This thread will be my update source. If I can't even do that then I don't have a right to be here.

[civpro]

Use drugs. Alcohol for night. Phenibut for day.

And go out with friends or wings who will support you or push you. If you're a newb going out alone then that's just insane.

[Remington]

Challenge yourself every day. Do at least one thing outside your comfort zone. Success will come after repetition. Also, do yourself a favor and keep it simple.

[Moto]

You can go ahead and skip to 3:04...

[Giovonny]

You are not working hard enough. You do not want it bad enough.

If you want results, you must take massive action.

"Man The Fuck Up"!

Or, humbly accept your position as a "beta" male.

If you want to become "alpha", you must work harder.

[MrXY]

Gio is right, you have to want to succeed badly enough to overcome your fear of approaching.

There is no substitute for action. If you don't take consistent action, you will fail. Simple as that, brutal as that.

Most people never take the actions necessary to really improve their lives, whether in terms or sex and love or money or fitness or skills or experiences and remain mediocrities.

Which is stronger-your fear of approaching or your fear of remaining the same? Only you can answer that question, and you answer it not by thinking but by doing, or not doing.

Set yourself a goal of doing 100 approaches, and doing them in the next 30 days. That's only 3.3 approaches per day. Go out day and night if you have to, but do them no matter what. Don't worry about outcomes, just concentrate on the process. At the end you'll have a much better opinion of yourself, and less anxiety about it.

[CH-Toronto]

(04-24-2015 02:43 PM)Hardy Daytona Wrote:  

Quote:

2. Say hello to EVERYONE. Not just the hot girl you're scared of talking to, but the clerk, the cashier, the old man

It's easy if they initiate. Hell, it's the easiest thing in the world. But crossing over the threshold and starting the interaction? I'd rather buy a tarantula, and I'm an arachnophobe.
That'd probably be a doozie for the pet shop line.

That's whole fucking point!!! YOU DO THE INITIATION!

[CH-Toronto]

Can't edit my above post so I'm going to lay it clear -

If you don't have the balls to say hello to a stranger, do you think you'll have the balls to fuck them?

[Lizard King]

Have you got a job yet?

You need to inject some purpose in to your life, and savings are not for living off.

Even a temporary job. It sounds like you're a a little depressed through being stuck in a rut.

[Hardy Daytona]

(04-25-2015 09:10 AM)Moto Wrote:  

You can go ahead and skip to 3:04...

Yes, because watching 30 seconds of a youtube clip is instantly going to fix the problem. I get the sentiment but it's not a magic wand.

(04-27-2015 01:47 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

You are not working hard enough. You do not want it bad enough.

If you want results, you must take massive action.

"Man The Fuck Up"!

Or, humbly accept your position as a "beta" male.

If you want to become "alpha", you must work harder.

You have no idea how much I've wanted to quit over the years. To just throw in the towel and make it easier on myself. But I can't. Hell if I know why - evolutionary biology, hereditary programming or sheer desperation. But whatever it is I'm still trying.

(04-27-2015 05:02 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

Which is stronger-your fear of approaching or your fear of remaining the same? Only you can answer that question, and you answer it not by thinking but by doing, or not doing.

Good question. Probably the former. Definitely the former. But I'm trying to change that.

(04-27-2015 08:28 PM)CH-Toronto Wrote:  

Can't edit my above post so I'm going to lay it clear -

If you don't have the balls to say hello to a stranger, do you think you'll have the balls to fuck them?

Nope.

(04-28-2015 05:15 PM)Lizard King Wrote:  

Have you got a job yet?

You need to inject some purpose in to your life, and savings are not for living off.

Even a temporary job. It sounds like you're a a little depressed through being stuck in a rut.

Nope. Been working on it but nothing yet.
And I am but primarily because I had a bad session at the gym today and am in a pretty sour mood.
Kind of used up my allocation of fucks to give right now.

Anyway for what it's worth I've made a couple of inane approaches at the bus stop the last few days and chatted bullshit with clerks while out running errands.

[Fortis]

Op your post was confusing. What exactly is your game goal? Get laid more? Go on more dates?

If you're getting scared, go to a bar and befriend the staff. I feel like when I walk into a bar and know the men and women who work there I feel more "open" in a way. In a few weeks, they will know you by name as a regular and will probably like you and help you approach.

Obviously, don't tell them, "please help me talk to this girl" but when you're talking to a girl, you can always be like "Yo (bartender's name) what do you think about this (topic) we're talking about" and he'll come over and get you guys all laughing and having a good time. If you're really tight with the bartender he'll give you both drinks and that is a huge DHV.

[Prof. Ligate]

An unorthodox way I used to like to get warmed up for talking to females - day or night - is to game a couple of direct sales girls. You know those cute but annoying girls stopping you at the mall around the city on behalf of UNICEF or Greenpeace?

Get the conversation off whatever they're trying to sign you up for. Practice your ramble for 10 minutes then run GALNUC. Best part is they will usually use 'game' techniques on you to sell you their shit. It's a win-win confidence builder if you have the time.

[Saladin]

Find a wingman. Find someone else who sucks as much as you do and start going out there. Its fine, I was there as well.

I would have never been able to get over my AA if I had started going out alone.

[Aphex]

Sounds to me like your social skills and charisma need work. When I first moved to Seattle, my current home, I fucking sucked at game. I moved from Florida where I had grown up and had a very large social circle. I'm a decent looking dude and had high status so getting pussy wasn't really much of an issue. I'd have parties at my place, roll with some bros to the beach, invite people, etc. Shit's easy when you know fucking everyone. I moved here, into the city, got my own place and didnt know anyone and no one gave a shit, so I started developing my game. I read a bunch of books, watched a fucking ton of vids, but the main thing I did that upped my skills and charisma was approach. I dont like nightclub game, I ran day game. Dude, I was terrified and said some of the fucking stupidest shit and got shot the fuck down more times than I can count. I had a girl tell me in english that she didn't speak english! Thats how fucking bad I was. AA can fucking suck but the one thing I burned into my soul was that the pain of missing out on an approach was way, way more painful than me approaching and totally fucking blowing it. One thing I might mention to look for is to join a lair if you don't have guys you can exclusively go out with to approach. I joined a lair here in Seattle after awhile of practicing cold approaches and getting a little better, and going out with dudes SPECIFICALLY to approach will force you to do it and you can also share ideas, get better, share field reports, etc. You make a commitment to each other and you cant puss out. I might also suggest that using the opener "How's your day?" on fucking everyone might help making talking to people in general easier. It's not a yes or no answer and forces a conversation thread. Most people are pretty cool and will ask back, especially chicks that are into you in the slightest. Again, that's just to get you talking to people. Hope that helps and good luck. The shit works, it'll take time but just put yourself out there. Then you can get the nuances of push-pull, and leading, etc. I ended up meeting and fucking a bunch of chicks and the chick I'm shacked up with now I met on the bus, cold approach. Your charisma will develop over time and practice. Last thing, and this is very effective, don't give a fuck about the outcome of the interaction. It'll take the pressure off you when you don't give a shit how it ends.

[Jetlagged]

Lmfao I was watching the mystery video and right before he said it I totally called it: man the fuck up son! Lol

Here's the thing man. I know where you are coming from, and I think there are very few people on this forum who can relate I you as well as I. I actually thought of making this post myself, and I still might, but I'm going to wait until I start makin forward motion to report about instead of bitching. After reading your post I'm glad I took the route I did - no disrespect.

First off, let me throw you some info about me. I'm 28, five foot seven and for most of my life, I've been a skinny, short, beta ish male. I actually don't like the word beta but I'll use it here for brevity. Like you I had the worst anxiety ever not just in approach, but even if I knew a girl liked me... Hell even first date kisses are/were fucking difficult for me to perform just because I was so nervous and overanalytical. I wish I could tell you I've changed, truth is I haven't/don't know. I'm on the worst dry streak of my life right now, maybe in history.

What I have realize though, It's all about self confidence. I'm trying to red pill (I also don't like this word) myself. Really it's manning up.
I have found damn near everything to hate about myself... My jaw is crooked, my nose is crooked and big, I'm skinny, I'm ugly, and lately my new obsession is I am too short. You wouldn't believe how many hours I spend on google researching shit like do girls find short guys attractive, making excuses as to how shorter celebrities get girls (legit bad comparison though but still) and all of this translates to piss poor self esteem, which makes fear of rejection seem too daunting to even try because it validates your own skewed picture of your self esteem and reinforces those beliefs that no girl wants you/you're not worth it/why even try. Myself, I am OCD, clinically diagnosed too none of that self diagnosis I think I have it shit. I'm not a neat freak hand washer everything needs to be in it's place guy... IMO that's not really OCD. OCD is life disrupting, life changing shit. I go on mood swings because of it... I obsess about my shortness, when a girl makes a backhanded reply at me I overthink it afterwards, maybe I really am ugly/have a midget voice/short/have bad posture... Etc.

Fukin man up dude. It's true. If you can't accept yourself, girls are gonna smell that shit out right away. Every girl I ever talked to, without telling them, can see I have low self confidence. I seek validation. I don't know how they knew it, but now I know how... Girls are more socially aware than guys and can pick up on things like tone, body language, and conversation.

You need to work on our self esteem before you can progress... Like you, I had the same question. How the fuck. I've been tryin my whole life and I keep falling back lower and lower.

Myself, just last week had a shitfes about my height and how it's killing me and I'll never do really well because I'm too short. Thank god I have a friend who's go patience that I can vent to and even his cup ran over.

Dude. You can't change who you physically are. I'm trying to come to terms with this myself. It's like bein upset you weren't born rich, or with huge muscles, or white/black/Asian.... Whatever it is, all you can do is take the knife you were given at birth and home that motherfucker until you can split atoms with that motherfucker. Don't waste your early life and regret it later. A good friend of mine told this: regret is the most powerful emotion of all.

Don't regret what you didn't have the balls to do. I was scared as shit to go in the gym scrawny and get in people way. I was awkward as shit in there. I didn't get a single compliment from anyone for almost 2 years. I got a lot "you're wasting your time at the gym, not gaining, just come over you're not makin progress anyways".

4 years later I'm looking better than ever and girl interest is starting to pick way up. But it didn't fix my self esteem and still to this day although the girl interest has picked up I can't capitalize on it.

Like me, what you need to is commit yourself like I did at the gym, accept the fact that it will suck at first, and power on through.

Start doing things to improve yourself and squash all those negative thoughts. Life goes on man. It takes months to make new habits. Take a self defense course, dance lessons, public speaking classes, pick up a book and read... Hit the gym, go hiking, TRAVEL IF YOU CAN you'll be surprised how it puts you in situations where you feel more confident and have more opportunities with women as you are FORCED to go out for everything. Lead an interesting life, squash those negative thoughts when they come up, and don't think so much. Work on your game little by little, not with just women, with everyone. Make everyone believe you are who you think you are. When people give you shit ignore them or agree and amplify (I just realized this myself. Giving shit back proves they got to you, only use this if necessary). Then apply it to women.

This is manning the fuck up. I need to listen to myself as much as you do.

Good luck.

[Jetlagged]

And just FYI, look back and re read your own posts.

When I have an OCD breakdown, after I go look at what I wrote to my friend and read the conversation. I deflect everything that is helpful advice and just dig my feet in and start saying ridiculous things that are obviously a stretch and show I don't want to change.

It really looks like some bitch made shit. People here have given you answers and you don't want to to hear it, just like me. It's because you're so cemented in your beliefs.

People will eventually give up helping you because you sound hopeless. Try. And when you suck keep trying.

Look back and re read all your responses and your original post and see what I mean.

[Hardy Daytona]

OK, I've been re-reading the thread and doing a little re-examining and it's clear that I was in a pretty nasty rut at the time of making the thread. So for those who tried to offer good advice that I spurned I apologize.

Moving on.
In an effort to overcome my AA I've approached 1 person every day for the past 2 weeks. Nothing complicated, just inquiring if they have the time. It's going a ways to helping re-program that I won't be yelled at for an elderly opener.
I will continue with this program but for the next 2 weeks I will be developing. Again, nothing fancy but an innocuous question to accompany. Asking if there's any delays while waiting for the bus, asking where something is in the supermarket, that sort of thing.

Also need to re-read and highlight important information in my copy of Day Bang. Might be something I missed last time around.

[Hardy Daytona]

Dammit I did it again.
Just been to the supermarket and screwed up.
Since I stated re-reading DB I got it into my head that I could do a full cold approach but I'm not there yet. I have to stick to the program.
Just ask for the time and then an inane question. Once a day every day for the next 2 weeks.

[OldDirtyBismarck]

I guess you are putting yourself under too much pressure here. Your conversation doesn´t flow naturally so thats why you overthink and panic.
You first need to see that people are just people. Are you anxiously while talking to your friends or relatives? I don´t think so. Have you ever been to a party where people where talking in a group, and then you joined, just by leaving 1 minute later without saying something? This feels weird right? Yes, but just for 5 seconds until you meet someone else to talk to.

Think about your goal: What do you want?
I know you want to believe it´s banging women, but its not. Right now your goal is to improve yourself. Social skills, SMV etc.
Getting the beautiful woman moaning under you is your final step, where you are far away from right now.

I would say alter your strategy. Don´t just talk to one person a day in your supermarket. Talk to the neighbour, call your mom, your friends. Get comfortable with social interaction. The next thing I would recommend is watching people in the eyes when you walk past them. I know this sounds creepy but you will soon get over the feeling that everybody is judging you and that you feel bad after every human contact for a while. By watching them in the eye you make that, for you uncomfortable, contact with another person by actually talking to her. And as it is a 1 - 3 second interaction you will soon get over it.

If you are at the same supermarket everyday, don´t you know the cashier by name already? Talk her/him up for a second while waiting to pay. If they are looking at your groceries say something like "You can have them If I can do your job for five seconds" or "Do I get a discount for being here everyday?". It´s not about being extremely creative or smart, just try to understand that people are in the same situation as you and rather have someone approach them then vice versa.