[polar]

(04-29-2015 10:03 PM)loki Wrote:  

For the record I had 2 other companies I started go bust, big deal, its a right of passage as far as I am concerned and I learned heaps. Every time I time I fail now it I know it makes me stronger just in a bitter sweet way.

Do not be afraid of failure, its a required ingredient for success, I really cannot stress this enough.

I think I still have 3 companies but two are sleeping at the moment as they have been setup for structural purposes. I also own 2 trusts which are for the same reason, structural and tax based reasoning. I have one main business that generates all of my bank, it will be split shortly and all IP moved into trusts along with shares etc..

The other massive benefit of owning your own business is life stye, its massive because you work when you want to work, others are working for you when you don't feel like it or if you're like me, you work all the time.

@Sammy I am a little hesitant to put details in writing any further than I have already about how this is done because tax laws in each country are different and I don't want to risk giving incorrect advice that will get someone into trouble. I am also prohibited by law to give tax and financial advice because I don't hold a license to in either area. Tax minimization is a very hot topic globally at the moment which is also why I am not keen on elaborating in an open/pubic forum.

Loki, a private forum has been discussed before but is most likely a non-starter.

Could you discuss if someone were starting a business with IP, what do you think would be a good way for it to be structured in your country? Hypothetically speaking, not as advice.

[Aaron-]

Big law firms in major cities start with $160,000 a year, excluding bonuses.

[lavidaloca]

They may make 200k after bonuses but they are in the most ecpensive cities working 2 jobs effectively and with boatloads of debt and high state taxes it isn't as good as it sounds.

[JCIZZLE]

I recently started a business hopefully I can eventually pull down 6 figures. However it's in the clothing industry of a niche sport so the barriers of entry are easy but gaining a reputation is the hardest part. I would also be interested in the private forum for business advice, I have some background in accounting and taxation but have left the field after a short stint.

[sammybiker]

Cheers Loki, understood, thanks for the response.

[The Wire]

(04-17-2015 08:32 PM)Mojorisin808 Wrote:  

I'm an IT consultant and I get anywhere from $70-80/hour, I've been making over 150k for the past few years. I regularly clock 40-50hours a week.

What do you do though? What area of IT?



150K is way above what even IT managers make in my company and pretty close to what IT Directors make per year on salary.

[Steve9]

(04-30-2015 09:22 PM)The Wire Wrote:  

150K is way above what even IT managers make in my company and pretty close to what IT Directors make per year on salary.

It all depends on the size of the company and the complexity of the IT systems being maintained or implemented.

On large IT implementation projects (eg. SAP) there can be 50 to 100 independent IT contractors earning 200-300K each (before tax).

[ThrustMaster]

(04-30-2015 09:22 PM)The Wire Wrote:  

(04-17-2015 08:32 PM)Mojorisin808 Wrote:  

I'm an IT consultant and I get anywhere from $70-80/hour, I've been making over 150k for the past few years. I regularly clock 40-50hours a week.

What do you do though? What area of IT?
150K is way above what even IT managers make in my company and pretty close to what IT Directors make per year on salary.

I'm in SillyCon Valley, I have Devops/Techops engineers that make that much in base alone, of course my folks are fucking rockstars - it's hard to find, train and retain good peeps. LOL.

A good 1099 will make 150-200/hr.

[jamaicabound]

I know plenty of careers can make over 100k or over 150k, however most are going to require some very specialized skillset not a lot of people have or lots of schooling. Assuming you don't want to spend the next 8 years becomming a doctor or lawyer your best chances of making 100k plus are either going to be in sales with an uncapped commission structure or by starting your own business.

Anyone going for a liberal arts degree or some garbage degree, and I say that as someone who has a liberal arts organizational communictions degree, unless you get into sales or do something yourself expect to come out making 35k to 40k. granted some may land a 50k 60k job but really imho if you want to make any real money you have to get into sales or start your own business.

[Ice]

(05-01-2015 10:55 AM)jamaicabound Wrote:  

I know plenty of careers can make over 100k or over 150k, however most are going to require some very specialized skillset not a lot of people have or lots of schooling. Assuming you don't want to spend the next 8 years becomming a doctor or lawyer your best chances of making 100k plus are either going to be in sales with an uncapped commission structure or by starting your own business.

Anyone going for a liberal arts degree or some garbage degree, and I say that as someone who has a liberal arts organizational communictions degree, unless you get into sales or do something yourself expect to come out making 35k to 40k. granted some may land a 50k 60k job but really imho if you want to make any real money you have to get into sales or start your own business.

That's not really true what you said about the salary for lib arts grads. For example, you can go into brand strategy, management consulting, UX strategy, advertising, marketing, digital consulting, business development, project management, product management etc - all these roles pay quite well after a couple of years. (If you're good).

Some marketing directors earn 150k too, so you can definitely reach that number with a lib arts degree too.

[jamaicabound]

(05-01-2015 11:28 AM)Ice Wrote:  

(05-01-2015 10:55 AM)jamaicabound Wrote:  

I know plenty of careers can make over 100k or over 150k, however most are going to require some very specialized skillset not a lot of people have or lots of schooling. Assuming you don't want to spend the next 8 years becomming a doctor or lawyer your best chances of making 100k plus are either going to be in sales with an uncapped commission structure or by starting your own business.

Anyone going for a liberal arts degree or some garbage degree, and I say that as someone who has a liberal arts organizational communictions degree, unless you get into sales or do something yourself expect to come out making 35k to 40k. granted some may land a 50k 60k job but really imho if you want to make any real money you have to get into sales or start your own business.

That's not really true what you said about the salary for lib arts grads. For example, you can go into brand strategy, management consulting, UX strategy, advertising, marketing, digital consulting, business development, project management, product management etc - all these roles pay quite well after a couple of years. (If you're good).

Some marketing directors earn 150k too, so you can definitely reach that number with a lib arts degree too.

True but the vast majority of students comming out with a liberal arts degree are not going to be making that in the first couple years or even first half of their career or anywhere close to that.

Also, when you come out with a liberal arts degree basically that piece of paper is what gets you in the door. Many companies won't even hire or promote without having a degree so its good for that, aside from that with a liberal arts degree you have to sell yourself as well as skills and experiences you've earned outside of college be it internships or specialized skills you've taken the time to learn and hone on your own. Your degree really in no way prepares you to walk into a job and start day one like an accountant may be able to or someone with a specialized degree where they actually learned their job in school. IMHO and I think as most employers view a lib arts degree. It shows your smart enough to get through college, to show up to classes, you don't have answers to things but the research skills you need for school at least show you know how to find answers.

Some of the jobs you mentioned are not jobs but vague industries like advertising and marketing where you have a range of people making from $10 an hour to millions. I know lots of grads who are going crazy because half these marketing professionally advertised jobs they are going to they show up to find its some kind of door to door sales. We all know those job listings "do you love sports" or "do you love rock and roll and a fun workplace?" Advertising and Marketing can pay well but are extremely hard to get into and are very demanding.

As far as the consulting stuff not sure if your talking about working for a consulting firm or getting into it independently but your average lib arts grad not only isn't going to have the skills nor life experience to get into consulting but nobody would hire some fresh grad with no experience to consult them.

I know being an entrepreneur is demanding but at least you have the chance at big rewards and also when you work for yourself though demanding and in many cases more hours than working a job, at least you have some flexibility in terms of when and how you do your job.

I'm no really familiar with UX strategy and some of the other things. That said my sister came out with a marketing degree so a little bit different than lib arts but she's worked for D&B, Netratings, Comscore and a few other pretty good jobs and about 10 years in she's making like 60k and thats with job moves which are typically higher pay bumps than just promotions and she's smarter than most. I myself worked in online marketing, analytics, etc for some startups as well as orbitz and pay was decent but nothing to write home about.

I think 95% of people comming out with liberal arts degrees are going through the motions of getting a degree and are going to come out and grab some corporate 35k a year job and a very small percent are going to learn additional skills or be mentored and try to enter some of the fields you mentioned.

Honestly looking back unless I had a specific career track to be on I would skip college all together and just educate myself online learning different programming languages, web design, graphic design, etc and just have a wide skill set which would be used freelancing, working for myself as well as in demand in a corporate setting as well.

[Mike0060]

Not yet. Only at 35k @ 22. Aiming for 100k+ by age 30!!

[Easy_C]

(05-01-2015 11:28 AM)Ice Wrote:  

That's not really true what you said about the salary for lib arts grads. For example, you can go into brand strategy, management consulting, UX strategy, advertising, marketing, digital consulting, business development, project management, product management etc - all these roles pay quite well after a couple of years. (If you're good).

Some marketing directors earn 150k too, so you can definitely reach that number with a lib arts degree too.

Those aren't "liberal arts" degrees. Where you find the six figure jobs that you talk about aren't from liberal arts programs, they're typically people coming out of top 30 MBA programs....and those programs are typically extremely competitive to get into, requiring good work experience(favoring people who were military officers, high finance professionals, or F500 managers prior to applying), good test scores, decent undergrad performance, and good essay writing/interviewing skills to get into.

The last part is particularly hard. I got dinged on a lot of my applications and finally got into a school that's ranked between 15-20 in every publication, and known for producing a lot of markets.


Some of those professions are even more difficult than that to get into. Management consulting pays well but it's going to be extremely difficult to get the 150k+ consulting jobs unless you're at an Ivy League (or equivalent, such as NorthWestern or Wharton) MBA program.

[Easy_C]

(05-01-2015 07:35 PM)jamaicabound Wrote:  

True but the vast majority of students comming out with a liberal arts degree are not going to be making that in the first couple years or even first half of their career or anywhere close to that.

Also, when you come out with a liberal arts degree basically that piece of paper is what gets you in the door.

That's not true in most cases. People with business or liberal arts degrees are a dime a dozen. Your degree alone isn't going to get your foot in the door. What's going to get your foot in the door is that the firm on question recruits at your campus, your school's alumni network, or that your school has a strong enough brand name to be noticed.

Quote:

Some of the jobs you mentioned are not jobs but vague industries like advertising and marketing where you have a range of people making from $10 an hour to millions. I know lots of grads who are going crazy because half these marketing professionally advertised jobs they are going to they show up to find its some kind of door to door sales.

Correct as far as I know. A lot of people will try to blue the line between sales and marketing. The two are NOT the same roles.

Quote:

As far as the consulting stuff not sure if your talking about working for a consulting firm or getting into it independently but your average lib arts grad not only isn't going to have the skills nor life experience to get into consulting but nobody would hire some fresh grad with no experience to consult them.

Consulting firms DO hire undergrads. The catch is that the undergrads aren't going to be doing the actual consulting. Those firms that do have undergrads will be using them to do the grunt work and prepare analysis that the post-MBA hires will then present to the clients. For example if an assignment requires that someone figure out the costs associated with upgrading a certain system you(the undergrad hire) would be the one who plugs all the data into the excel formulas.

Quote:

Honestly looking back unless I had a specific career track to be on I would skip college all together and just educate myself online learning different programming languages, web design, graphic design, etc and just have a wide skill set which would be used freelancing, working for myself as well as in demand in a corporate setting as well.

Good advice. Not only that, but a basic understanding of programming will serve you well in almost any high paying "business" job as those jobs are heavily reliant on advanced statistics and analytical software packages. Finance is a particularly good example: most high end trading jobs that I've seen posted recently(the job most people think of when they hear "wall street") now require that applicants be proficient in one or more programming languages.


If you don't know what you want to do then you can't go wrong with the Air Force. Still plenty of bureaucratic PC bullshit, but it's considerably less difficult duty than the Army, less dangerous, and you're more likely to learn some marketable technical skills. The catch is that I wouldn't do it for more than the minimum term of service due to increased difficulty of transferring jobs as you get older.

The military also is good for setting yourself up afterwards. There's a couple of officer headhunter firms that place people into good F500 jobs with upwards mobility(but also a lot of shitty headhunter firms). You also count towards company's diversity quotas which makes it easier to get a look at. Finally, the GI Bill benefits will help you pay for a more specialized graduate school and most of them like vets.


Another "if you don't know" factor I'd ask people to consider is choosing your undergraduate major carefully. Overall a strong engineering program with a minor in a relevant business subject (management or economics) is going to set you up well. Engineering students can usually get into almost any type of specialized MS or a good generalist MBA program due to the recognized rigor of engineering programs, but liberal arts majors typically can't switch to Engineering.

You can step down from engineering but stepping up from something else is rare.

[Ice]

(05-01-2015 11:54 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(05-01-2015 11:28 AM)Ice Wrote:  

That's not really true what you said about the salary for lib arts grads. For example, you can go into brand strategy, management consulting, UX strategy, advertising, marketing, digital consulting, business development, project management, product management etc - all these roles pay quite well after a couple of years. (If you're good).

Some marketing directors earn 150k too, so you can definitely reach that number with a lib arts degree too.

Those aren't "liberal arts" degrees. Where you find the six figure jobs that you talk about aren't from liberal arts programs, they're typically people coming out of top 30 MBA programs....and those programs are typically extremely competitive to get into, requiring good work experience(favoring people who were military officers, high finance professionals, or F500 managers prior to applying), good test scores, decent undergrad performance, and good essay writing/interviewing skills to get into.

The last part is particularly hard. I got dinged on a lot of my applications and finally got into a school that's ranked between 15-20 in every publication, and known for producing a lot of markets.


Some of those professions are even more difficult than that to get into. Management consulting pays well but it's going to be extremely difficult to get the 150k+ consulting jobs unless you're at an Ivy League (or equivalent, such as NorthWestern or Wharton) MBA program.

People working in product management, brand strategy or marketing strategy don't necessarily have an MBA or a background in high finance or military. I actually think only a minority has.

But of course, you have to be good in order to get to a good position in these fields. But that's true for most every field. A mediocre programmer is not gonna earn that much either. But it's true that in certain fields there is a clear career progression - for example medicine: You do get your education, then you do X years this, then X years that, and then you will be in position XY. With liberal arts degrees that's definitely not the case. You have a lot more responsibility to forge your own path. I understand that for a lot of people that's just too much work and they're not self-directed enough - in that case a liberal arts degree is not a good choice, because the degree itself is really only one factor out of many that defines your employability, as was mentioned above. But if you have a special interest and are really focused on it, you can def have a good career with a liberal arts degree. But sure, it's the same as in every field - a big factor is who you know, who you can get connected with, being in the right social group, having the right names on your resume etc. - that applies to basically every field though if you want to be successful.

[Easy_C]

wasn't referring to the high finance/military background as being necessary for those, those are to get into the M7 MBA programs. I was under the impression that was pretty clear when I said "those programs".

You're also correct that the people working in those three fields don't have an MBA. However getting hired directly into a job paying 150k+ base starting salary isn't going to happen from an undergrad liberal arts program. The only people who get paid that much directly out of any degree program are graduate level jobs, at least in terms of base salaries. There are a few undergrad jobs which pay that much in total compensation; the catches are that it depends on a large bonus and it usually requires living in large cities with astronomical costs of living.

[Ice]

(05-02-2015 03:42 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

wasn't referring to the high finance/military background as being necessary for those, those are to get into the M7 MBA programs. I was under the impression that was pretty clear when I said "those programs".

You're also correct that the people working in those three fields don't have an MBA. However getting hired directly into a job paying 150k+ base starting salary isn't going to happen from an undergrad liberal arts program. The only people who get paid that much directly out of any degree program are graduate level jobs, at least in terms of base salaries. There are a few undergrad jobs which pay that much in total compensation; the catches are that it depends on a large bonus and it usually requires living in large cities with astronomical costs of living.

Well yeah sure, I'm not saying people will get hired into these positions directly out of university. Of course, before getting a marketing manager position, for example, you have to have some previous experience in marketing ..

But noone says you need to make 150k directly out of a degree program - very few people do ..

[FoxRocks]

(05-03-2015 07:30 AM)Ice Wrote:  

(05-02-2015 03:42 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

wasn't referring to the high finance/military background as being necessary for those, those are to get into the M7 MBA programs. I was under the impression that was pretty clear when I said "those programs".

You're also correct that the people working in those three fields don't have an MBA. However getting hired directly into a job paying 150k+ base starting salary isn't going to happen from an undergrad liberal arts program. The only people who get paid that much directly out of any degree program are graduate level jobs, at least in terms of base salaries. There are a few undergrad jobs which pay that much in total compensation; the catches are that it depends on a large bonus and it usually requires living in large cities with astronomical costs of living.

Well yeah sure, I'm not saying people will get hired into these positions directly out of university. Of course, before getting a marketing manager position, for example, you have to have some previous experience in marketing ..

But noone says you need to make 150k directly out of a degree program - very few people do ..

At the end of the day, college is only 4 years of your life. If all the rest of your life is good, the liberal arts degree will not hold you back.

BUT this has basically 0 to do with the liberal arts degree and rather who you are. In fact, I would argue if you were really smart and motivated enough to be able to make $150k at 30 or so with a liberal arts degree, you would have been better off skipping college all together.

Giving the credit to the liberal arts degree is silly. It still (probably) had 0 value other then networking.

[SiverFox]

Independent IT Consultant, $110/hr rate, made $201k last year.

[Ice]

That's crazy - what kind of consulting do you do?

(05-03-2015 12:56 PM)SiverFox Wrote:  

Independent IT Consultant, $110/hr rate, made $201k last year.

[Saweeep]

This thread reminds me of those you find in school leaver forums asking what job to do to make the most money.

The answer is always; one you'll be good at and one that you'll stick at.

The top guys in virtually every field conceivable, from banking to baking, make massive amounts of money.

The problem is that if you go into something purely for the money, you probably won't end up making it.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(05-04-2015 01:50 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

This thread reminds me of those you find in school leaver forums asking what job to do to make the most money.

The answer is always; one you'll be good at and one that you'll stick at.

The top guys in virtually every field conceivable, from banking to baking, make massive amounts of money.

The problem is that if you go into something purely for the money, you probably won't end up making it.

While that is true for the top in almost any field the likelihood of making decent money while being average is different from field to field. MDs in the US seem to make good money even if they are average, but it takes more than 10 years of education and work to get there. Wallstreet pays dividends faster, but living in NYC takes a good portion away from it in the beginning.

Corporate careers are difficult to foresee - you can be a superstar at 35 or stuck somewhere in middle management. STEM fields usually offer the highest starting salaries all around the world - adding business qualifications makes you attractive for promotion too.

In many countries it becomes even more profitable to get a specialized trade and open a company later on than to go through the conventional business education and corporate career. There are real bottle-necks in certain professions, which cannot be quickly replaced by illegal or foreign labor.

Generally I see that by every year the options for true high-earning jobs diminish in most fields - not only due to concentration of competition, but also off-shoring, diminished disposable income of the general population etc. Even top-end corporate jobs get impacted income wise as there is more competition by applicants from different countries and women which lowers wages. A job that would have paid 140k a few years ago is now open at 80k. Companies are not stupid and they react to the market forces.

G-Manifesto did a post on the multiple venues one can make decent cash in a down economy a couple years ago - most of those things are businesses of various forms. http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2008/08/top...-down.html

Generally it's better to pick something you like, but on the other hand you have to realize is that often times you don't know what you like. Being a painter, writer or drug-dealer may sound like a great gig if you are the top of the field. But the probability of you making any decent dough in those professions is slim to none. A certified specialized accountant who caters to the super-rich however - that guy will be making good money even in a deep depression - even if he is average at best. Also there is a greater demand for them than top-level painters.

[Ice]

(05-04-2015 01:50 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

This thread reminds me of those you find in school leaver forums asking what job to do to make the most money.

The answer is always; one you'll be good at and one that you'll stick at.

The top guys in virtually every field conceivable, from banking to baking, make massive amounts of money.

The problem is that if you go into something purely for the money, you probably won't end up making it.

Yeah definitely, one has to at least somewhat enjoy what one is doing - it's not gonna work going into a field just because of the money. Or otherwise one is going to be rather unhappy after a couple of years.

I don't necessarily need to make 150k, I was just wondering if there are any people on here who make that kind of $$.

but it's definitely true that there are some professions where one makes a decent living even if one is rather mediocre, while it's quite difficult in other fields even if one is pretty good. But the former often also require quite a big investment in terms of time and also money.

[sammybiker]

[quote] (05-04-2015 11:48 AM)Ice Wrote:  

[quote='CrashBangWallop' pid='1013392' dateline='1430722259']

Yeah definitely, one has to at least somewhat enjoy what one is doing - it's not gonna work going into a field just because of the money. Or otherwise one is going to be rather unhappy after a couple of years.

I don't necessarily need to make 150k, I was just wondering if there are any people on here who make that kind of $$.

but it's definitely true that there are some professions where one makes a decent living even if one is rather mediocre, while it's quite difficult in other fields even if one is pretty good. But the former often also require quite a big investment in terms of time and also money.[/quote]

Meh. Wait until you make 150k+ to decide whether you really need to "enjoy" what you're doing.

I may not necessarily "enjoy" what I'm doing but I sure as hell love the money. And the status and confidence that comes with it.

Call me vain, I don't care...but when I made $15k+ last month, no matter how shitty the job, I felt pretty fucking good.

And all that said, if you're smart, it doesn't take many years of $150k earnings to escape the rat race forever. Be frugal, don't procreate, don't get married and grind it out for a few years...you're set.

[Ice]

(05-04-2015 04:11 PM)sammybiker Wrote:  

[quote] (05-04-2015 11:48 AM)Ice Wrote:  

Yeah definitely, one has to at least somewhat enjoy what one is doing - it's not gonna work going into a field just because of the money. Or otherwise one is going to be rather unhappy after a couple of years.

I don't necessarily need to make 150k, I was just wondering if there are any people on here who make that kind of $$.

but it's definitely true that there are some professions where one makes a decent living even if one is rather mediocre, while it's quite difficult in other fields even if one is pretty good. But the former often also require quite a big investment in terms of time and also money.

Meh. Wait until you make 150k+ to decide whether you really need to "enjoy" what you're doing.

I may not necessarily "enjoy" what I'm doing but I sure as hell love the money. And the status and confidence that comes with it.

Call me vain, I don't care...but when I made $15k+ last month, no matter how shitty the job, I felt pretty fucking good.

And all that said, if you're smart, it doesn't take many years of $150k earnings to escape the rat race forever. Be frugal, don't procreate, don't get married and grind it out for a few years...you're set.

Yeah makes sense.

Do you already have a plan for escaping the rat race after you worked for a couple of more years?