[RexImperator]

(04-03-2015 08:49 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(04-01-2015 07:38 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Hmmm. I was recently accepted into an engineering graduate program but I'm having second thoughts.

What are the details? If you have a solid plan that you don't plan on deviating, graduate study is good especially if you can get the bill to be little to nothing.

I wouldn't get into any student loan debt unless there is a very clear path from start to finish, something that I didn't do.

I will only go to graduate school if my employer pays for part of it.

I think that's pretty smart.

It's a program for Mechanical Engineering and they gave me a scholarship but it's a very expensive school and that only partly covers the cost. It might not be worth it. I'm planning to visit in person before I decide. My undergraduate major was in a different field so I might have to suck it up for one year before getting full funding.

[Tytalus]

(04-03-2015 10:29 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  

(04-03-2015 08:49 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(04-01-2015 07:38 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Hmmm. I was recently accepted into an engineering graduate program but I'm having second thoughts.

What are the details? If you have a solid plan that you don't plan on deviating, graduate study is good especially if you can get the bill to be little to nothing.

I wouldn't get into any student loan debt unless there is a very clear path from start to finish, something that I didn't do.

I will only go to graduate school if my employer pays for part of it.

I think that's pretty smart.

It's a program for Mechanical Engineering and they gave me a scholarship but it's a very expensive school and that only partly covers the cost. It might not be worth it. I'm planning to visit in person before I decide. My undergraduate major was in a different field so I might have to suck it up for one year before getting full funding.

Well, thing is the M-Eng if your undergraduate is in a different field can give you a leg up into engineering work, which can broaden your employability. Even part payment (50%+) is better than 0.

If it will put on track to getting your Professional Mechanical Engineering (or P-Eng) certificate then do it.

[DickDastardly]

delete

[Suits]

(04-09-2015 02:30 PM)DickDastardly Wrote:  

Currently finishing up a PhD and I agree 100% with the OP.

It's about as useful as a chocolate fucking teapot.

Now to figure out what the fuck to do?

Teach English in China like all the other Ph.Ds?

[Tyroc7]

I have been in academia for several years and now have tenure in an applied social science/professional field. I am at a major research university in a major city. So my experiences might not apply to everyone (e.g. adjunct in a small teaching college in rural Texas).

I think the discipline you choose is important. Writing off the social sciences is too broad. For example, economics is a social science and a PhD in economics is very marketable. In general, fields that have employment options outside academia will have higher salaries and better working conditions. There will also be opportunities to consult.

At research universities professors have a lot of autonomy. Your class hours (4-8 hours a week depending on your teaching load) and office hours (2-4 hours) are your only set times. If you are in the hard sciences you will probably have to spend a lot of time in the lab. But in most other fields all you need is a power outlet and a laptop and you are good to go. With rise of digital books/journals you don't even have to go to the library that much anymore.

There are many opportunities to travel on other people's dime. Conferences, invited talks, etc. I have been to Europe, Canada, Hawaii, Japan and all over the US this way.

It is true that many campuses are a hotbed of radical feminism. But this stuff is easy to ignore. If you are teaching something like statistics or programming there is not much reason for this to come up. Even if you are teaching a controversial topic like the history of racism you can and should present both sides of the debate and usually that suffices to keep people from getting too excited.

Obviously you can't game women in your class. But on most campuses other students and graduate students are fair game. Plus there are opportunities to travel (see above).

[spydersuit]

3 years later, where did you land?

[flyinghorse]

I studied a lot of social science modules/electives whilst studying for law.

What people may not realise is that social science isn't just Marxism and Feminism. You can study the sociology of healthcare, pensions, crime, prison reform, ethics, and religion. It can actually be a fascinating subject that will offer you much insight into society.

I wrote one or two right leaning essays on crime reduction and pensions and received top marks.

[tomtud]

PhD - plumbing, heating and drywall.

This was the abbreviation we jokingly used while I was an undergrad. Turns out, those in our circle who went into these fields and avoided the white collar field are actually doing quite well.hvac techs and plumbers can make a decent living. Drywall is a bit heavy and dusty, but if you work like an animal you can make money.

[spydersuit]

I have 2 advanced degrees. I am over 250k per year. Most people I know with graduate degrees are in the 95-150K salary range. I know a few in the 70-95k range. Its a fact that people with Advanced degrees make more in their lifetimes than those who do not have them. The more education you receive, the more likely you are to be wealthy. Most of the executives that I deal with in the tech industry have PhDs or MS degrees. The main problem is that you end up working for the man (corporate/government/academia). I needed the high level education myself and the military paid my way. If I didn’t have those resouces available I would have started a business.

Here is 1 reference, and there are hundreds of others that say the same thing about income and education:

https://repository.library.georgetown.ed...sAllowed=y
—-

I am really curious to see how it turned out for the OP.

[spydersuit]

Tomtud- hanging drywall is a shitty job for any guy that wants to bang a lot of women. Not too many ladies on the job site, shitty long hours, unpredictable sales, flaky sub contractors, low hourly wage, not enough money for benefits, no vacation, and is hard on your body. Electrician and wireless netorking would be the way to go in the current market.

[Thrill Jackson]

Graduate school, medical school, law school, etc is all a waste of time if the goal is money. Your better off being in investment banking or Technology sales.

Investment banking you work the same hours (if you see studying as work) and make 170k first year.salary progress leads to 500k within 10 years

Source: http://wallstreetplayboys.com/investment...n-up-year/

Technology sales your OTE is on the lower end (45k-60k) but with Spiffs or accelerators you can make mid six figures the first year as a ISR. Field reps can pull in 7 figures.

It's very hard but hell so are medical school/ law school/PhD programs

[spydersuit]

(09-22-2018 11:05 AM)Thrill Jackson Wrote:  

Graduate school, medical school, law school, etc is all a waste of time if the goal is money. Your better off being in investment banking or Technology sales.

False. The data does not lie. More education = more income.

Those occupations are not a good fit for everyone. On average, most people in those occupations make far more money than those in tech sales or investment banking over a lifetime. most investment bankers make around 100K and have an MBA - a graduate degree.

[Thrill Jackson]

(09-22-2018 11:09 AM)spydersuit Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 11:05 AM)Thrill Jackson Wrote:  

Graduate school, medical school, law school, etc is all a waste of time if the goal is money. Your better off being in investment banking or Technology sales.

False. The data does not lie. More education = more income.

Those occupations are not a good fit for everyone. On average, most people in those occupations make far more money than those in tech sales or investment banking over a lifetime. most investment bankers make around 100K and have an MBA - a graduate degree.

Data is missing leading. They are taking into account every joe blow with a 4 yr degree compared to every joe blow with a MBA yeah Mr.Blow with a MBA is going to make more money. However go take that same data and look up the median income for investment bankers.

You have to factor in opportunity cost as well. All the time your taking studying away making 14k-20k a year while taking on more debt you are declining in net worth.

Meanwhile Mr.Chad takes on the investment banking gig after getting his Bachelor's degree and stacks his money and is now worth 500k by the time Mr.Blow finishes his PhD program and is making a larger yearly salary.

[spydersuit]

(09-22-2018 11:18 AM)Thrill Jackson Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 11:09 AM)spydersuit Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 11:05 AM)Thrill Jackson Wrote:  

Graduate school, medical school, law school, etc is all a waste of time if the goal is money. Your better off being in investment banking or Technology sales.

False. The data does not lie. More education = more income.

Those occupations are not a good fit for everyone. On average, most people in those occupations make far more money than those in tech sales or investment banking over a lifetime. most investment bankers make around 100K and have an MBA - a graduate degree.

Data is missing leading. They are taking into account every joe blow with a 4 yr degree compared to every joe blow with a MBA yeah Mr.Blow with a MBA is going to make more money. However go take that same data and look up the median income for investment bankers.

You have to factor in opportunity cost as well. All the time your taking studying away making 14k-20k a year while taking on more debt you are declining in net worth.

Meanwhile Mr.Chad takes on the investment banking gig after getting his Bachelor's degree and stacks his money and is now worth 500k by the time Mr.Blow finishes his PhD program and is making a larger yearly salary.

False. Those are lifetime earnings reported. There are hundreds of studies that found the same thing. FWIW I know plenty of investment bankers on wall street and london and not one of them has 500K. They have great jobs but not that kind of wealth. Especially after their first 3-5 years on the job. I know many people that earned 50-90k per year as PhD students. Not saying that a phd, md, jd, is for everyone. I am saying on average that they make more over their lifetimes than people that do not have those degrees. The data does not lie. The study has been replicated 100s of times. Go look for yourself. Cheers.

[tomtud]

I personally know drywall boardmen making $1500-$2000 a week working piecework residential new home construction. Drywall tapers who charge in the Toronto area for custom homes approximately 40 cents a square foot of drywall.(more or less) So 10,000 sq ft of drywall comes out to $4000. A good taper can tape this in a week.
Now it's dusty and sweaty but you work your own hours and take a vacation whenever you please. Now if you work for a company by the hour it's a little different.

The advantages of working piece work residential is that you can work alone and not deal with any office politics or boss looking over your shoulder.

Plumbers have a better gig. My buddy is unionized and is making $40+ /hour. Plus benefits. The good part is that their union pension enables them to retire way before 65 if they start after high school.

For living in the Toronto area the tradesmen can make a decent living. Aside from the crazy real estate prices that popped up over the last few years it was a decent wage. Nowadays one needs to much more to even afford a basic house.

Back to the thread. The PhD is respectable no matter what. If snobby people want to be snobby too bad for them.

[spydersuit]

(09-22-2018 11:54 AM)tomtud Wrote:  

I personally know drywall boardmen making $1500-$2000 a week working piecework residential new home construction. Drywall tapers who charge in the Toronto area for custom homes approximately 40 cents a square foot of drywall.(more or less) So 10,000 sq ft of drywall comes out to $4000. A good taper can tape this in a week.
Now it's dusty and sweaty but you work your own hours and take a vacation whenever you please. Now if you work for a company by the hour it's a little different.

The advantages of working piece work residential is that you can work alone and not deal with any office politics or boss looking over your shoulder.

Plumbers have a better gig. My buddy is unionized and is making $40+ /hour. Plus benefits. The good part is that their union pension enables them to retire way before 65 if they start after high school.

For living in the Toronto area the tradesmen can make a decent living. Aside from the crazy real estate prices that popped up over the last few years it was a decent wage. Nowadays one needs to much more to even afford a basic house.

Back to the thread. The PhD is respectable no matter what. If snobby people want to be snobby too bad for them.

Yea, national healthcare makes it a better proposition in Canada. In the US you have to complete with Illegals and drives the wages way down. Also, union carpenters and especially union drywallers are becoming non-existent (sometimes the same in the US). Is that 2K per week before or after taxes?

[Thrill Jackson]

(09-22-2018 11:38 AM)spydersuit Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 11:18 AM)Thrill Jackson Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 11:09 AM)spydersuit Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 11:05 AM)Thrill Jackson Wrote:  

Graduate school, medical school, law school, etc is all a waste of time if the goal is money. Your better off being in investment banking or Technology sales.

False. The data does not lie. More education = more income.

Those occupations are not a good fit for everyone. On average, most people in those occupations make far more money than those in tech sales or investment banking over a lifetime. most investment bankers make around 100K and have an MBA - a graduate degree.

Data is missing leading. They are taking into account every joe blow with a 4 yr degree compared to every joe blow with a MBA yeah Mr.Blow with a MBA is going to make more money. However go take that same data and look up the median income for investment bankers.

You have to factor in opportunity cost as well. All the time your taking studying away making 14k-20k a year while taking on more debt you are declining in net worth.

Meanwhile Mr.Chad takes on the investment banking gig after getting his Bachelor's degree and stacks his money and is now worth 500k by the time Mr.Blow finishes his PhD program and is making a larger yearly salary.

False. Those are lifetime earnings reported. There are hundreds of studies that found the same thing. FWIW I know plenty of investment bankers in wall street and london and not one of them has 500K. They have great jobs but not that kind of wealth. Especially after their first 3-5 years on the job. I know many people that earned 50-90k per year as PhD students. Not saying that a phd, md, jd, is for everyone. I am saying on average that they make more over their lifetimes than people that do not have those degrees. The data does not lie. The study has been replicated 100s of times. Go look for yourself. Cheers.

You not factoring in opportunity cost. You don't need a fucking MBA to get into investment banking. You may know'plenty' of investment bankers but you don't know the successful ones who go the extra mile and play the politics need to make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

Just go to a school that gets recruited well and get your bachelor's NETWORK and get a good gig.

I'm not saying 500k is the norm but it is realistic after ten years.

Lifetime earnings means next to nothing. What would you rather be? The investment banker who retires after 15 years because he had a cash flow of 300k+ a year with no debt or the doctor who makes 250k average a year, has 800k of medical school who student loans who is handcuffed to Uncle Sam for the rest of his life

I'm looking at big picture, your looking at the manipulated data that the BLS.gov pushes so the sheep will remain sheep and keep working for the rest of there life's.

Here is some more detailed oriented data to back up the investment banking claim :https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/salary/investment-banking-compensation

Also, look at every major OEM for Technology sales on glass door (Oracle,HPE, VMware, etc.) And see what the pay potential is like. It gets very lucrative very quickly if you are good at what you do.

[tomtud]

Spyder it's gross income but you don't have to pay for materials just pure labour. Tools you need to get of course. But the beauty is that you can claim all expenses (car,gas tools etc) as a business. So you have write offs during tax Season.
Yeah I saw on tv how I California construction salaries have remained stagnant regarding cost of living since the 70s. I guess illegal labour has did in the trades. Once illegal labour starts digging into more white collar jobs then I think change will happen. But the thing is if these illegals get injured in the job they are out of luck big time. However, contractors need to be held accountable and be sued and so on and so Forth.

[spydersuit]

(09-22-2018 12:01 PM)Thrill Jackson Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 11:38 AM)spydersuit Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 11:18 AM)Thrill Jackson Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 11:09 AM)spydersuit Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 11:05 AM)Thrill Jackson Wrote:  

Graduate school, medical school, law school, etc is all a waste of time if the goal is money. Your better off being in investment banking or Technology sales.

False. The data does not lie. More education = more income.

Those occupations are not a good fit for everyone. On average, most people in those occupations make far more money than those in tech sales or investment banking over a lifetime. most investment bankers make around 100K and have an MBA - a graduate degree.

Data is missing leading. They are taking into account every joe blow with a 4 yr degree compared to every joe blow with a MBA yeah Mr.Blow with a MBA is going to make more money. However go take that same data and look up the median income for investment bankers.

You have to factor in opportunity cost as well. All the time your taking studying away making 14k-20k a year while taking on more debt you are declining in net worth.

Meanwhile Mr.Chad takes on the investment banking gig after getting his Bachelor's degree and stacks his money and is now worth 500k by the time Mr.Blow finishes his PhD program and is making a larger yearly salary.

False. Those are lifetime earnings reported. There are hundreds of studies that found the same thing. FWIW I know plenty of investment bankers in wall street and london and not one of them has 500K. They have great jobs but not that kind of wealth. Especially after their first 3-5 years on the job. I know many people that earned 50-90k per year as PhD students. Not saying that a phd, md, jd, is for everyone. I am saying on average that they make more over their lifetimes than people that do not have those degrees. The data does not lie. The study has been replicated 100s of times. Go look for yourself. Cheers.

You not factoring in opportunity cost. You don't need a fucking MBA to get into investment banking. You may know'plenty' of investment bankers but you don't know the successful ones who go the extra mile and play the politics need to make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

Just go to a school that gets recruited well and get your bachelor's NETWORK and get a good gig.

I'm not saying 500k is the norm but it is realistic after ten years.

Lifetime earnings means next to nothing. What would you rather be? The investment banker who retires after 15 years because he had a cash flow of 300k+ a year with no debt or the doctor who makes 250k average a year, has 800k of medical school who student loans who is handcuffed to Uncle Sam for the rest of his life

I'm looking at big picture, your looking at the manipulated data that the BLS.gov pushes so the sheep will remain sheep and keep working for the rest of there life's.

Here is some more detailed oriented data to back up the investment banking claim :https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/salary/investment-banking-compensation

Also, look at every major OEM for Technology sales on glass door (Oracle,HPE, VMware, etc.) And see what the pay potential is like. It gets very lucrative very quickly if you are good at what you do.

False. The data does not lie. You might not like it. That is fine. Total compensation studies over lifetime reveal the same thing. Go read the literature yourself. Lots of cocking off on Rooshv forum including your post. Show me the distribution of the salary. Not the range. Also, from a reputable source. I know many wall street investment bankers. Everyone is on the bottom rung of those salary ranges and the cost of living is very high in NYC. Also, potential has nothing to do what is actually earned. Most people do not take the top range of the salary. That is why I said show me the distribution.

Here I did some work for you since I deal with stupidity on a regular basis and its faster:

https://www1.salary.com/Investment-Banker-Salary.html

Show me the data and I will change my stance.

[spydersuit]

(09-22-2018 12:35 PM)tomtud Wrote:  

Spyder it's gross income but you don't have to pay for materials just pure labour. Tools you need to get of course. But the beauty is that you can claim all expenses (car,gas tools etc) as a business. So you have write offs during tax Season.
Yeah I saw on tv how I California construction salaries have remained stagnant regarding cost of living since the 70s. I guess illegal labour has did in the trades. Once illegal labour starts digging into more white collar jobs then I think change will happen. But the thing is if these illegals get injured in the job they are out of luck big time. However, contractors need to be held accountable and be sued and so on and so Forth.

That is a big difference than the US. Maybe I should move to Canada? Love North western Ontario and the shield. Crown Land is amazing.

[tomtud]

On another note in the trades for the most part there is no PC bullshit or hiring quotas etc etc. For those who hate the interview process and answering stupid questions which don't pertain to the job then the trades are for you. You can always work for yourself and bid on jobs. Once you get contacts and price your workmanship (sorry work people ship -- trudeaus canada) then you're off to the races.

Even those who cannot get a job but are strong and can be disciplined can go into the trades. White collar jobs are overrated.

[tomtud]

Spyder there is beauty everywhere. Depending on what you are seeking check it out. If you liklike the outdoors ie fishing and cottage life northern Ontario is great.

[Thrill Jackson]

(09-22-2018 12:45 PM)spydersuit Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 12:01 PM)Thrill Jackson Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 11:38 AM)spydersuit Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 11:18 AM)Thrill Jackson Wrote:  

(09-22-2018 11:09 AM)spydersuit Wrote:  

False. The data does not lie. More education = more income.

Those occupations are not a good fit for everyone. On average, most people in those occupations make far more money than those in tech sales or investment banking over a lifetime. most investment bankers make around 100K and have an MBA - a graduate degree.

Data is missing leading. They are taking into account every joe blow with a 4 yr degree compared to every joe blow with a MBA yeah Mr.Blow with a MBA is going to make more money. However go take that same data and look up the median income for investment bankers.

You have to factor in opportunity cost as well. All the time your taking studying away making 14k-20k a year while taking on more debt you are declining in net worth.

Meanwhile Mr.Chad takes on the investment banking gig after getting his Bachelor's degree and stacks his money and is now worth 500k by the time Mr.Blow finishes his PhD program and is making a larger yearly salary.

False. Those are lifetime earnings reported. There are hundreds of studies that found the same thing. FWIW I know plenty of investment bankers in wall street and london and not one of them has 500K. They have great jobs but not that kind of wealth. Especially after their first 3-5 years on the job. I know many people that earned 50-90k per year as PhD students. Not saying that a phd, md, jd, is for everyone. I am saying on average that they make more over their lifetimes than people that do not have those degrees. The data does not lie. The study has been replicated 100s of times. Go look for yourself. Cheers.

You not factoring in opportunity cost. You don't need a fucking MBA to get into investment banking. You may know'plenty' of investment bankers but you don't know the successful ones who go the extra mile and play the politics need to make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

Just go to a school that gets recruited well and get your bachelor's NETWORK and get a good gig.

I'm not saying 500k is the norm but it is realistic after ten years.

Lifetime earnings means next to nothing. What would you rather be? The investment banker who retires after 15 years because he had a cash flow of 300k+ a year with no debt or the doctor who makes 250k average a year, has 800k of medical school who student loans who is handcuffed to Uncle Sam for the rest of his life

I'm looking at big picture, your looking at the manipulated data that the BLS.gov pushes so the sheep will remain sheep and keep working for the rest of there life's.

Here is some more detailed oriented data to back up the investment banking claim :https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/salary/investment-banking-compensation

Also, look at every major OEM for Technology sales on glass door (Oracle,HPE, VMware, etc.) And see what the pay potential is like. It gets very lucrative very quickly if you are good at what you do.

False. The data does not lie. You might not like it. That is fine. Total compensation studies over lifetime reveal the same thing. Go read the literature yourself. Lots of cocking off on Rooshv forum including your post. Show me the distribution of the salary. Not the range. Also, from a reputable source. I know many wall street investment bankers. Everyone is on the bottom rung of those salary ranges and the cost of living is very high in NYC. Also, potential has nothing to do what is actually earned. Most people do not take the top range of the salary. That is why I said show me the distribution.

Here I did some work for you since I deal with stupidity on a regular basis and its faster:

https://www1.salary.com/Investment-Banker-Salary.html

Show me the data and I will change my stance.

Your a deflecting what I am saying and the point I am making. It's about working smarter not harder. The average person can put one foot in front of the other and realistically make a doctor's salary sooner in SAAS sales or investment banking as oppose to getting into medical school and doing what it takes and costs to become a doctor. Most investment bankers and sales reps are trying to get by. It all goes back to the Pareto principal.

You can't say the same for being a doctor/lawyer. Very very few can BS into those roles. With the OPPORTUNITY COST" and "DIFFICULTY" of time/money to become a lawyer and a doctor it's a not a practical path to wealth.

You tell me what easier. Killing it for 2-3 years in a inside sales role to become a field rep or going through law school and earnings a law degree?

[godfather dust]

I went to college for a semester. Not STEM

I was red pilled enough at the time to realize I should not be able to get a 91% in sociology by:
1. Do not pick up book at all, ever
2. Get a feel for professors belief system
3. Circle most politically correct answer on all multiple choice questions, it is always correct
4. Give politically correct answers to essay questions, even if you have no idea what the questions refer to
5. For the final paper spend a night or two writing about racial profiling, and get a 95

[godfather dust]

(03-30-2015 05:19 AM)Captain Gh Wrote:  

At the end of the Day just make sure that you'll be making $$$Bank for yourself! The Anger stemming from the Red Pill can and will get to you in sneaky ways if you let it get to you! Make sure that the second you drop out that money will still be coming in your pockets.

I will definitely second this, I dropped out of college very quickly. Between young man high-test and drug use I ran wild for a few years, made a decent living but gained nothing that would help me advance in the "square" world. Now I'm 30 and finally making moves in the right direction career wise but missed out on 10 (8 actually, given 22 is rough age of college graduation) years of compound interest.