[weambulance]

(03-09-2015 11:52 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 09:56 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  

If a black fraternity was taped saying white men should be hanged there would be zero repercussions.

Black college educated men would never say anything that stupid, so the argument is moot. White college men in several southern schools likely have chants similar to this because bigotry and hatred runs deep in this country, even in higher education.

I take it from that comment that you're some kind of black supremacist? Black men would never do such a thing, and are thus morally superior to white men, some of whom we know did do such a thing.

Maybe you'd like to clarify the point.

[Atlanta Man]

(03-10-2015 12:18 AM)weambulance Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 11:52 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 09:56 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  

If a black fraternity was taped saying white men should be hanged there would be zero repercussions.

Black college educated men would never say anything that stupid, so the argument is moot. White college men in several southern schools likely have chants similar to this because bigotry and hatred runs deep in this country, even in higher education.

I take it from that comment that you're some kind of black supremacist? Black men would never do such a thing, and are thus morally superior to white men, some of whom we know did do such a thing.

Maybe you'd like to clarify the point.

Hear is your clarity- Black fraternity members, college educated students, would not chant anything derogatory about white people in the context of our Greek organizations and would gladly accept whites into our Greek organizations. White men , and women(white sororities got caught up earlier last year in a similar situation) have repeatedly made racist statements and excluded black students from their Greek organizations. I am specifically speaking about out educated , college enrolled, Greek organization members and their behavior.

The OSU students who made that video were in a Greek organization,college students, and educated. They will hang niggers from a tree, but not allow them membership in their frat. Show me a black frat that will chant the equivalent, with the pride and exuberance, those OSU boys did.

[speakeasy]

(03-10-2015 12:13 AM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  

This dude is as bad as pastor Manning.

[PrimeTime32]

Like Lyndon B Johnson said in 1960, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice that you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

[weambulance]

(03-10-2015 01:27 AM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 12:18 AM)weambulance Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 11:52 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 09:56 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  

If a black fraternity was taped saying white men should be hanged there would be zero repercussions.

Black college educated men would never say anything that stupid, so the argument is moot. White college men in several southern schools likely have chants similar to this because bigotry and hatred runs deep in this country, even in higher education.

I take it from that comment that you're some kind of black supremacist? Black men would never do such a thing, and are thus morally superior to white men, some of whom we know did do such a thing.

Maybe you'd like to clarify the point.

Hear is your clarity- Black fraternity members, college educated students, would not chant anything derogatory about white people in the context of our Greek organizations and would gladly accept whites into our Greek organizations. White men , and women(white sororities got caught up earlier last year in a similar situation) have repeatedly made racist statements and excluded black students from their Greek organizations. I am specifically speaking about out educated , college enrolled, Greek organization members and their behavior.

The OSU students who made that video were in a Greek organization,college students, and educated. They will hang niggers from a tree, but not allow them membership in their frat. Show me a black frat that will chant the equivalent, with the pride and exuberance, those OSU boys did.

I don't need to show you a black frat that will do anything. The question was: "Is Atlanta Man a black supremacist?" and the answer is: "Yes, yes he is."

You are outright stating that blacks are morally superior to whites.

Group A would not do the bad thing that (some members of) Group B did, and the only difference between the two groups is Group A is black and Group B is white. Therefore we can logically conclude that the reason Group A would not do that bad thing is because they are black. So, blacks are better than whites.

Your bias is clear. Thanks for playing.

[HughMyron]

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me!"

Repeat this until you feel your righteous indignation at a dumb song that drunk jocks chanting in their tour bus subside.

And then focus on things that are actually crimes of ACTION: the random muggings in the hood which I'm sure are equal opportunity, the random break and entries, the violence, theft that goes un-/underreported in the media. Put these things in relation to each other and then ask yourself if a 4 line long chant is somehow worse.

[Benoit]

Which is really worse?

* People who say racist stuff out loud and never act on it.
* People who keep their mouths shut but discriminate against people secretly.

I doubt anyone looking at it rationally believes these kids were planning to hang anyone.

What they did was offensive - that's the point. Private membership groups often do things in private that they don't want known in public.

Having everyone join in with something that would ruin them if it became known is a good way to make people think twice before running their mouths off about other private activities.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

They're morons, but I don't think they or the fraternity need to be punished.

[Akula]

(03-10-2015 06:18 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

They're morons, but I don't think they or the fraternity need to be punished.

Too late! They already took down the fraternity signs from the building and kicked them off campus - and maybe will expell them from school.

I found this on Reddit and it apparently was sent out by the university President:

TO: All Students, Faculty, and Staff
To those who have misused their free speech in such a reprehensible way, I have a message for you. You are disgraceful. You have violated all that we stand for. You should not have the privilege of calling yourselves "Sooners." Real Sooners are not racist. Real Sooners are not bigots. Real Sooners believe in equal opportunity. Real Sooners treat all people with respect. Real Sooners love each other and take care of each other like family members.
Effective immediately, all ties and affiliations between this University and the local SAE chapter are hereby severed. I direct that the house be closed and that members will remove their personal belongings from the house by midnight tomorrow. Those needing to make special arrangements for positions shall contact the Dean of Students.

All of us will redouble our efforts to create the strongest sense of family and community. We vow that we will be an example to the entire country of how to deal with this issue. There must be zero tolerance for racism everywhere in our nation.
David L. Boren President University of Oklahoma

[turkishcandy]

(03-10-2015 06:36 AM)Akula Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 06:18 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

They're morons, but I don't think they or the fraternity need to be punished.

To those who have misused their free speech in such a reprehensible way, I have a message for you.

Apparently the president can decide good use and misuse of free speech and punish those who go against his personal opinion, ehm ehm, i meant against rules.

[Suits]

(03-10-2015 02:14 AM)weambulance Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 01:27 AM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 12:18 AM)weambulance Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 11:52 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 09:56 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  

If a black fraternity was taped saying white men should be hanged there would be zero repercussions.

Black college educated men would never say anything that stupid, so the argument is moot. White college men in several southern schools likely have chants similar to this because bigotry and hatred runs deep in this country, even in higher education.

I take it from that comment that you're some kind of black supremacist? Black men would never do such a thing, and are thus morally superior to white men, some of whom we know did do such a thing.

Maybe you'd like to clarify the point.

Hear is your clarity- Black fraternity members, college educated students, would not chant anything derogatory about white people in the context of our Greek organizations and would gladly accept whites into our Greek organizations. White men , and women(white sororities got caught up earlier last year in a similar situation) have repeatedly made racist statements and excluded black students from their Greek organizations. I am specifically speaking about out educated , college enrolled, Greek organization members and their behavior.

The OSU students who made that video were in a Greek organization,college students, and educated. They will hang niggers from a tree, but not allow them membership in their frat. Show me a black frat that will chant the equivalent, with the pride and exuberance, those OSU boys did.

I don't need to show you a black frat that will do anything. The question was: "Is Atlanta Man a black supremacist?" and the answer is: "Yes, yes he is."

You are outright stating that blacks are morally superior to whites.

Group A would not do the bad thing that (some members of) Group B did, and the only difference between the two groups is Group A is black and Group B is white. Therefore we can logically conclude that the reason Group A would not do that bad thing is because they are black. So, blacks are better than whites.

Your bias is clear. Thanks for playing.

Incorrect. There are three groups.

Group A: White frat members who would not chant racist content.
Group B: White frat members who would.
Group C: Black frat members.

Atlanta Man is claiming that there is not a group of black frat members that would behave like Group B, but he is not claiming that Group C have moral superiority to Group A.

A black supremacist would claim that Group C has moral superiority to Group B and Group A.

I'm disappointed by your contributions to this thread.

[Repo]

@ Turkishcandy

Thats what free speech is. The students can be idiots have have racist chants all they want, and the school has every right to ban their fraternity and punish them for doing so. Don't like it? Go to a different school. Their school their rules.

[Cobra]

This thread has singlehandedly demonstrated which members you should be associated with and which ones should go on your black list.

Hate spews from even a few words even if you try to hide it.

Funny thing is that I think you know who you are.

It's too good of a morning to get riled up and comment further for now.

[turkishcandy]

(03-10-2015 07:15 AM)Repo Wrote:  

@ Turkishcandy

Thats what free speech is. The students can be idiots have have racist chants all they want, and the school has every right to ban their fraternity and punish them for doing so. Don't like it? Go to a different school. Their school their rules.

I can't imagine you defending the university's right to punish a student who faced a rape allegation or who spoke against women rights or islam or something like that, which is perfectly normal because there seems to be a fine, thin, clear line between racism and sexism or anti-islam, for now... Today, the president gets to decide what is socially acceptable and what is not, and those of you who can't stand hearing racist statements are defending him. But tomorrow this line will be pushed and pushed to the degree that you cant make any politically incorrect statement without facing punishment from the university, because you allowed them to draw this line once, and they will keep drawing it however they please until every speech that is harmful for a certain group is punished and silenced.

I trust that day you will still defend the president's right to punish those who "misuse free speech"

[Suits]

(03-10-2015 04:57 AM)Benoit Wrote:  

Which is really worse?

* People who say racist stuff out loud and never act on it.
* People who keep their mouths shut but discriminate against people secretly.

I doubt anyone looking at it rationally believes these kids were planning to hang anyone.

It doesn't matter which is worse. Both are bad.

Allowing one won't make the other less of a problem.

I don't understand the point that you are trying to make.

[Suits]

(03-10-2015 07:42 AM)turkishcandy Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 07:15 AM)Repo Wrote:  

@ Turkishcandy

Thats what free speech is. The students can be idiots have have racist chants all they want, and the school has every right to ban their fraternity and punish them for doing so. Don't like it? Go to a different school. Their school their rules.

I can't imagine you defending the university's right to punish a student who faced a rape allegation or who spoke against women rights or islam or something like that, which is perfectly normal because there seems to be a fine, thick line between racism and sexism or anti-islam, for now... Today, the president gets to decide what is socially acceptable and what is not, and those of you who can't stand hearing racist statements are defending him. But tomorrow this line will be pushed and pushed to the degree that you cant make any politically incorrect statement without facing punishment from the university, because you allowed them to draw this line once, and they will keep drawing it however they please until every speech that is harmful for a certain group is punished and silenced.

I trust that day you will still defend the president's right to punish those who "misuse free speech"

If any men were glorifying of hanging women by their necks from trees, they quite reasonably could expect to have their frat shutdown and probably would face expulsion....and it should matter if the threats were serious or not.

No one should be glorifying the killing of other groups of people. Responding to this by shutting down frats and expelling students is an appropriate use of university presidency.

Punishing someone based on unfounded allegations or punishing someone for expressing logical defensible beliefs based on real data is a completely different thing altogether. Not even in the same category.

Are you prepared to argue for the merits of glorifying the unjust and immoral killing of whole races of people? (I know you are not, and I'm only suggesting this to explain my own argument).

Some things are politically incorrect for good reason. Please don't confuse the issue.

[Libertas]

(03-10-2015 04:57 AM)Benoit Wrote:  

What they did was offensive - that's the point. Private membership groups often do things in private that they don't want known in public.

But this "private membership group" was acting as representatives of a public university. Big difference. That's the whole lynchpin of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

If this was a truly private club you'd be right, but it isn't. It's part of a public accommodation.

The university was perfectly correct in its decision.

Unfortunately I have to also say that these are the consequences of a media that eagerly hypes racism every chance it gets because when things like this actually do happen, we're so damn desensitized to it that we just don't care.

[weambulance]

(03-10-2015 07:13 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 02:14 AM)weambulance Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 01:27 AM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 12:18 AM)weambulance Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 11:52 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  

Black college educated men would never say anything that stupid, so the argument is moot. White college men in several southern schools likely have chants similar to this because bigotry and hatred runs deep in this country, even in higher education.

I take it from that comment that you're some kind of black supremacist? Black men would never do such a thing, and are thus morally superior to white men, some of whom we know did do such a thing.

Maybe you'd like to clarify the point.

Hear is your clarity- Black fraternity members, college educated students, would not chant anything derogatory about white people in the context of our Greek organizations and would gladly accept whites into our Greek organizations. White men , and women(white sororities got caught up earlier last year in a similar situation) have repeatedly made racist statements and excluded black students from their Greek organizations. I am specifically speaking about out educated , college enrolled, Greek organization members and their behavior.

The OSU students who made that video were in a Greek organization,college students, and educated. They will hang niggers from a tree, but not allow them membership in their frat. Show me a black frat that will chant the equivalent, with the pride and exuberance, those OSU boys did.

I don't need to show you a black frat that will do anything. The question was: "Is Atlanta Man a black supremacist?" and the answer is: "Yes, yes he is."

You are outright stating that blacks are morally superior to whites.

Group A would not do the bad thing that (some members of) Group B did, and the only difference between the two groups is Group A is black and Group B is white. Therefore we can logically conclude that the reason Group A would not do that bad thing is because they are black. So, blacks are better than whites.

Your bias is clear. Thanks for playing.

Incorrect. There are three groups.

Group A: White frat members who would not chant racist content.
Group B: White frat members who would.
Group C: Black frat members.

Atlanta Man is claiming that there is not a group of black frat members that would behave like Group B, but he is not claiming that Group C have moral superiority to Group A.

A black supremacist would claim that Group C has moral superiority to Group B and Group A.

I'm disappointed by your contributions to this thread.

Bullshit. He was making a clear value comparison. He assigns bigotry, hate, and racism exclusively to white fraternities, while making no allowance for blacks to be racist, hateful, or bigots. In short, he is assigning moral superiority to blacks over whites. Words mean things, pal, and I'm not the one who wrote them.

I asked him to clarify because I thought maybe he wrote too quickly and didn't fully explain his point. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. Then he doubled down with more of the same "blacks would NEVER do such a thing!" crap.

If you don't see what's wrong with his statements, I really don't know what to tell you.

The real breakdown is:

Group A - not-racist white people (the vast majority)
Group B - racist white people
Group C - not-racist black people (the vast majority)
Group D - racist black people

I notice you didn't include Group D yourself. I assure you, plenty of racist black people do exist.

I don't give a fuck about any of this. These race threads are retarded, with few people able to set aside their own biases and have any kind of rational discussion. His comment stood out as absolutely absurd, so I asked about it.

People are people. Skin color has fuckall to do with cultural attitudes yet all people can discuss is skin color! I knew some black guys in high school in the northeastern US. We took AP classes together and went to the same schools for 12 years. We belonged to the same culture. How is it that I am supposed to have more in common with some random white dude from Georgia than with those black guys? Why would anyone think my black classmates have more in common with black guys from Georgia than with me?

How about we pull two random guys from Zimbabwe, one black and one white. Am I supposed to identify more with that white dude than the black guys I grew up with in my upper middle class suburban town? Should they identify more with some south-central African black dude just because he's black?

And yet that's the assumption people make when they start yapping on about "race".

I have never, ever self-identified as "white". I feel no special kinship with other white people just because I'm white. I have belonged to many "tribes" in my time but I have never put any weight in my skin color. I find it absolutely bizarre that so many people do pick sides based solely on how much melanin they have, and it's completely asinine to treat entire populations as cohesive groups based solely on their average melanin content.

[mikado]

Chill out, weambulance.

[weambulance]

Yeah, how bout you stay in your lane, mikado.

[Libertas]

(03-09-2015 10:31 PM)Jevioso Wrote:  

You have to take a step out of whatever political or racial perspective you have, to see that this is now normal and no one is actually being exploited here, more than should be expected.

What Social Media has done, has for the most part spread the standard of politicians and celebrities to regular people. You can become famous off twerking on youtube, and have millions of fans, just like a celebrity who acts in a 100 million dollar movie. And yet, just like a celebrity, a bad moment in public can destroy your entire reputation. All we're seeing is cause and effect of the mini-celebrity culture which is in a golden age. This is why your boss can fire you for what you do online, even they are in on it as well.

The Mainstream Media, as much as we like to accuse it of exploiting people, is simply exploiting what already is exploited by the consumer; in other words this story was already going viral on twitter. The Mainstream media simply covered it, because if it doesn't, it loses the illusion of authority it has on what is actually news. Is it racial, is it divisive: hell yeah! But in an age of distractions, how else do you get people's attention but by giving them something strong to react to? Tell them the truth? Ha! Come on now, we're all better than that.

I personally do not care about racist words or language, this is what progressives like to focus on, rather than deal with the problem that has always been associated with racism since America's inception: people using the power of government (state, federal, local) to deny people their individual rights protected under the constitution, due to their race. That's the only form of racism that matters, everything else is mostly irrelevant and is nothing more than activism as a form of entertainment.

You're mostly right, but there is one caveat to this that you neglected to mention - a private collective agreement about racism matters also, since that's what was at the core of Jim Crow and it's what the aforementioned Civil Rights Act of 1964 was designed to break up.

You basically had a bunch of racist cartels acting as a barrier to entry for blacks into society, with the implicit, but not explicit backing of the state governments (explicit backing would go against the "separate but equal" doctrine in Plessy v. Ferguson).

So basically what you had here was in some ways a throwback to that old cartel system of the past, and that's why, on pondering it a bit further, I can understand some of the very visceral reactions by some guys in this thread.

My opinion on the inclinations toward thought policing and faux outrage still stand (this really shouldn't be national news since it's still a bunch of assholes on a bus essentially, an act hardly a threat in its commission), but I can make an exception here, and the university has every right (and obligation in the spirit if not the letter of the CRA) to disband the fraternity since it appeared to hardly be an isolated incident there.

[Benoit]

(03-10-2015 07:47 AM)Suits Wrote:  

It doesn't matter which is worse. Both are bad.

Allowing one won't make the other less of a problem.

Everyone has a bias. I would rather have people expose their bigotry in public so that people around them can be aware of it.

(03-10-2015 08:06 AM)Libertas Wrote:  

(03-10-2015 04:57 AM)Benoit Wrote:  

What they did was offensive - that's the point. Private membership groups often do things in private that they don't want known in public.

But this "private membership group" was acting as representatives of a public university. Big difference. That's the whole lynchpin of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

If this was a truly private club you'd be right, but it isn't. It's part of a public accommodation.

The university was perfectly correct in its decision.

Unfortunately I have to also say that these are the consequences of a media that eagerly hypes racism every chance it gets because when things like this actually do happen, we're so damn desensitized to it that we just don't care.

I meant 'private' in the sense that it's not open to anyone to join up.

People will always do stupid things, no matter what rules you make. But to take stupid kids pushing the boundaries of acceptable behaviour, and make them a major news story and the current target of the twitter hate mob doesn't fix any of the problems that actually affect people's lives. Now all their friends have been kicked out of their home because people sang an unpleasant song on a bus.

It's nothing but outrage journalism. Can anyone here honestly say they weren't aware that some people still think and do racist things? Why focus on this bunch of kids who you'll likely never hear of again?

[Sir Vigorous]

(03-10-2015 08:45 AM)Benoit Wrote:  

It's nothing but outrage journalism. Can anyone here honestly say they weren't aware that some people still think and do racist things? Why focus on this bunch of kids who you'll likely never hear of again?

Believe it or not, I am somewhat surprised that an entire bus, and entire fraternity, and their dates would sing a song about excluding "niggers" from their ranks and would rather see them lynched. Many people don't interact with large groups of racists like that so it is a shock to many in the country. Apparently many here think this is normal stupid "boys, will be boys" behavior and this has opened my eyes to how prevalent and normal this behavior might be.

That's why it's a big story, people knew there were racists in organizations, but many people didn't know an entire chapter of a major fraternity held overtly racist attitudes and sings songs about it. It's a shock to the conscious of people who don't associate with that many racists or don't harbor racist thought.

[Jneg]

(03-09-2015 08:33 PM)Vice Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 08:18 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

A few random thoughts on this:

• Yet another example of smartphones absolutely destroying normal socialization.

So... singing "You can hang them from a tree, but they'll never sign with me. There'll never be a nigger at SAE." is normal social behavior? That's news to me.

have you ever heard the way black people talk about eachother in rap songs?

...

Yes you have. People pay money to hear black people sing about committing violence against eachother. This little frat diddy is harmless as apple pie and should not be taken seriously by anyone.

[The Beast1]

Jesus christ reading this thread is painful.

Guess what everyone, we all have racial and religious proclivities that we use to put others and ourselves into little groups.

I will be the first person to admit that I do not like or really care for people of ME decent or of a certain subcontinent. However, the trick to not letting yourself devolve into what is essentially a skin color ra-ra-ra fest. You should be willing to work through any racial preferences to accomplish a goal.

It's called being smart to further your own agenda.

I expect more from RvF members and this devolving of the forum's culture lately depresses me. This isn't self improvement in the slightest.