[Geomann180]

^I'm not talking about this thread in particular, but rather discussion on race on the forum in general.

G

[Jevioso]

You have to take a step out of whatever political or racial perspective you have, to see that this is now normal and no one is actually being exploited here, more than should be expected.

What Social Media has done, has for the most part spread the standard of politicians and celebrities to regular people. You can become famous off twerking on youtube, and have millions of fans, just like a celebrity who acts in a 100 million dollar movie. And yet, just like a celebrity, a bad moment in public can destroy your entire reputation. All we're seeing is cause and effect of the mini-celebrity culture which is in a golden age. This is why your boss can fire you for what you do online, even they are in on it as well.

The Mainstream Media, as much as we like to accuse it of exploiting people, is simply exploiting what already is exploited by the consumer; in other words this story was already going viral on twitter. The Mainstream media simply covered it, because if it doesn't, it loses the illusion of authority it has on what is actually news. Is it racial, is it divisive: hell yeah! But in an age of distractions, how else do you get people's attention but by giving them something strong to react to? Tell them the truth? Ha! Come on now, we're all better than that.

I personally do not care about racist words or language, this is what progressives like to focus on, rather than deal with the problem that has always been associated with racism since America's inception: people using the power of government (state, federal, local) to deny people their individual rights protected under the constitution, due to their race. That's the only form of racism that matters, everything else is mostly irrelevant and is nothing more than activism as a form of entertainment.

[DrewP]

Even though I've been on the "these kids deserve what they get" side of this argument, I will say this:

The protests being held in response to this incident are completely ludicrous. A protest is supposed to be a way of expressing displeasure to people in a position of power to encourage policy change. What exactly is it that these people are protesting? That bigoted dickheads exist? I can't imagine that the protesters here have any actionable demands. Seems to me they just want a pat on the head for being the right kind of white people.

[Brosemite]

(03-09-2015 10:01 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

The same members who say "it was a joke" would be the same ones screaming "racism!" if I were to say "lets hang all white men tomorrow".... when saying such phrase in a joking manner.

I'm pretty sure there would be repercussions if there were news of a group jokingly mentioning the thought of carrying out a terrorist threat (even without the intent of doing so) in a private formal setting.

The probability of this chapter following through on this joke is extremely low, but the video has been leaked on a public level & nothing can change that.

The university therefore has no other choice but to do some damage control not; this isn't for the sake of pandering to SJWs, but to maintain the university's image, enrollment numbers, reputation in the research world, and prestige of their athletic programs (particularly the revenue generating ones with boosters & other sponsors involved). Imagine how much money & opportunities the institution would lose if they didn't take any action at all.

(03-09-2015 08:17 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

I don't have a horse in this race, I just thought it was interesting news.

No one here so far seems to think it was a dumb idea to sing that song, I find that interesting.

Based on your time in the forum, you really didn't think posting this story would've triggered different opinions & a devil's advocate view on this issue?

[JimmyHendricks]

I have no issue with the University severing ties with the frat as an organization. These guys were idiots, and they deserve to have the charter revoked. Not the kind of guys I'd want to associate with either.

What I take issue with, is that the University is instantly evicting every single resident of the house out onto the streets with no remorse. Landlords can't even legally pull that shit with the worst of tennants.

What about the guys who weren't singing? What about the guys who weren't even there? If the justification is "Well they probably think the same way, so they deserve it..." then we're getting dangerously close to Orwellian Thought Police, and the same kind of justification hate groups use to paint entire groups with a broad brush.

Seems like the school president is trying to flex some SJW cred, and taking things way too far.

I don't feel bad at all the frat, but the precedent being set here is a dangerous slippery slope.

[Wadsworth]

(03-09-2015 10:37 PM)JimmyHendricks Wrote:  

I have no issue with the University severing ties with the frat as an organization. These guys were idiots, and they deserve to have the charter revoked. Not the kind of guys I'd want to associate with either.

What I take issue with, is that the University is instantly evicting every single resident of the house out onto the streets with no remorse. Landlords can't even legally pull that shit with the worst of tennants.

What about the guys who weren't singing? What about the guys who weren't even there? If the justification is "Well they probably think the same way, so they deserve it..." then we're getting dangerously close to Orwellian Thought Police, and the same kind of justification hate groups use to paint entire groups with a broad brush.

Seems like the school president is trying to flex some SJW cred, and taking things way too far.

I don't feel bad at all the frat, but the precedent being set here is a dangerous slippery slope.

“The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.”

H.L. Mencken

[Wargasm]

My two cents is that this chant isn't fueled as much by racism as it is about rebelling against PC culture.

As a white man you have to think over everything you say to make sure somebody won't be offended, which gets extremely tiresome over long periods of time.

So when they're finally with a group of their peers, that they all trust, it can be extremely liberating to sing the most offensive shit you can come up with at the top of your lungs. Not because you want to lynch black people, but because you're tired of bending over backwards for the PC narrative all the time.

I think it comes from the same place as wanting to smash mailboxes and do other anti-social things when you're drunk in a group of your peers. There's a thrill to breaking the rules.

[Suits]

This is horrible behavior and goes well beyond the sort of free speech that schools should encourage or even allow.

I will die for someone's right to express such hatred on their website, while speaking to people and in other publications. Hell, you can have racist hater campfire sing-alongs for all I care, as long as you don't indicatively make another person reasonably fear for their safety (threats).

But you can't blame a school for wanting no part in this. You can't blame a company firing people for being intentionally offensive.

You have a right to free speech. That doesn't mean that other people should be forced to associate or continue to educate committed racists.

[Wadsworth]

(03-09-2015 10:45 PM)Suits Wrote:  

This is horrible behavior and goes well beyond the sort of free speech that schools should encourage or even allow.

I will die for someone's right to express such hatred on their website, while speaking to people and in other publications. Hell, you can have racist hater campfire sing-alongs for all I care, as long as you don't indicatively make another person reasonably fear for their safety (threats).

But you can't blame a school for wanting no part in this. You can't blame a company firing people for being intentionally offensive.

You have a right to free speech. That doesn't mean that other people should be forced to associate or continue to educate committed racists.

The logic here is flawed in my opinion. It is only in our politically correct climate that what some fraternity kooks sing off campus on a bus somewhere is taken to be a reflection of the school somehow.

The school wanting no part in this implies they have to disavow it. The school had no part in this, and disavowal is irrelevant.

[Sourcecode]

This is where you logic is flawed.

The school DID have a part of this.
The school grants the charters for these fraternities. Essential the Frat represents the school.

The school is its own company.. its own brand and this frat as vouched for by this brand.
Would you want people like this to be representing your company?
Or would you formally make it known that you are dissolving your relationship with them?
If one of your employees is pulling money from the register when you are not around..or selling drugs from behind the counter....do you want him to continue working for you.
Or will you tell yourself.. that..he is just a a single employee.. he doesn't represent the company?

[Wadsworth]

(03-09-2015 10:53 PM)Sourcecode Wrote:  

This is where you logic is flawed.

The school DID have a part of this.
The school grants the charters for these fraternities. Essential the Frat represents the school.

The school is its own company.. its own brand and this frat as vouched for by this brand.
Would you want people like this to be representing your company?
Or would you formally make it known that you are dissolving your relationship with them?
If one of your employees is pulling money from the register when you are not around..or selling drugs from behind the counter....do you want him to continue working for you.
Or will you tell yourself.. that..he is just a a single employee.. he doesn't represent the company?

The fact that companies have to publicly disavow the actions of their employees, or that politicians have to publicly disavow the actions of someone in their party is exactly part of the climate we've allowed to flourish, and it is completely irrational. It's basically what you'd expect in a witch hunt, if someone you know is accused of being a witch, you denounce them as loudly as possible to direct the inquisitor away from you.

Of course I wouldn't want an employee stealing my money or selling drugs, but is that the same thing?

[JimmyHendricks]

Stealing money or selling drugs would likely get you less of a punishment from the school.

[Cattle Rustler]

(03-09-2015 11:03 PM)JimmyHendricks Wrote:  

Stealing money or selling drugs would likely get you less of a punishment from the school.

This thread just hit full retard.

Equating this to selling drugs which includes facing expulsion along with loss of financial aid are two different things.

[Sir Vigorous]

(03-09-2015 10:41 PM)Wargasm Wrote:  

My two cents is that this chant isn't fueled as much by racism as it is about rebelling against PC culture.

As a white man you have to think over everything you say to make sure somebody won't be offended, which gets extremely tiresome over long periods of time.

So when they're finally with a group of their peers, that they all trust, it can be extremely liberating to sing the most offensive shit you can come up with at the top of your lungs. Not because you want to lynch black people, but because you're tired of bending over backwards for the PC narrative all the time.

I think it comes from the same place as wanting to smash mailboxes and do other anti-social things when you're drunk in a group of your peers. There's a thrill to breaking the rules.

This requires that en masse an entire fraternity is upset by PC culture and they all decided to cope the same way, by memorizing and chanting a racist chant. Maybe a couple of bro's might do this, but an entire fraternity? It's much simpler to believe they are just racist, you're giving them soo much benefit of the doubt.

Besides, if a group of called aged men can't handle their 'angst' without resorting to clear and overt racism, I probably wouldn't want to be associated with them for that reason either.

[Atlanta Man]

(03-09-2015 09:08 PM)Dismal Operator Wrote:  

Feeling outrage over this only makes sense if you believe we live in a magic world in which these sort of unsavory sentiments don't exist. I say that because these kids were on a private bus among themselves, and not in public chanting this, or heckling black students in any way. Had they been doing that, I'd have little issue with them being shut down.

From the vantage point of the country as a whole, this is essentially Orwellian thoughtcrime at work. If not for the smartphone, no one outside those on the bus would have known it happened at all. Now privy to their 'thoughts,' the popular view is to punish them because those thoughts are unsavory. That doesn't sit well with me, even though I find their chant terrible. Same thing with Donald Sterling. He said things in a private conversation, and the end result of that action alone was the loss of his basketball team, despite his comments not being indicative of racial discrimination in his operations of the team.

Just like with Sterling, I'm seeing a lot of justification of the actions against the fraternity, up to and including expulsion of its members, based on that old canard 'you have freedom of speech, but not freedom from consequences!!!' Fair enough, but when you say something stupid, the consequences are people thinking you are an idiot with stupid views. The consequences should not be you lose your employment/education and/or are ostracized from society. That they effectively are is down to politically correct framing of thought to the point that you have freedom of speech (as long as it's on message).

I'm particularly disappointed in the OU football and basketball teams cancelling practice today over this. That just sends the message to the players that this nonsense is worth disrupting their ostensible quest for greatness. Instead of taking the position that bad things happen, and life is full of possible roadblocks that need to be cleared, they take the feminine position that the goals they are working toward must be stopped on a dime because of a group of their peers saying dumb things.

Really, you are surprised the black athletes shut it down for a day? Let me illuminate you to as why that happened. Black athletes sat down for a day so they could talk to each other and calm down so they did not act out. You have no idea how difficult it is as a black person in this country to move forward with your day to day while having to put up with white people and their bullshit while remaining calm and non confrontational. Oklahoma is a football state, black men are the primary players. Oklahoma is a racist state where a lot of black men have to grin and bear it with those stupid ass people down there. A bunch of racist dudes, who truthfully are a good representation of the majority, feel real comfortable chanting some fucked up shit. The brothers had to sit down , calm down, and put up a united calm front.

[MidWest]

Wooo boy, where do I even begin.

When I read "Oklahoma" I thought to myself "Oh, ok, I'm not that surprised, what else is new?" Let them drive around certain parts of LA with that nonsense and see what happens. Let them roll down in Broadway in New York, it aint happening. Let them roll down into Chicago singing that tune and see what happens. The point is that these guys wouldn't have sang this at the presence of a Black person, no way no how. This reminds me of the Donald Sterling situation, and these guys basically just got caught saying some things that lots of White Americans say when they are in their element (Riley Cooper saying "nigger" at a country concert is an example) and with their own in the comfort of their homes and most people know what is said in closed doors, so people shouldn't be surprised by this one bit.

I agree with what the university did, as many of you know free speech has consequences especially in this capitalist world, and all the school was doing was trying to protect the reputation of their university especially with schools becoming more and more privatized where they have big companies sponsoring them, so I understand the university in that regard.

What really surprises me though is that these guys actually took the time to come up with this song and not only come up with it, but then chant it on a fucking charter bus, I mean how naive can they be to think they wouldn't get caught especially (as some guys mentioned) with the media being obsessed with race. Having been in 2 frats myself at my college. One mostly white (social frat) and one Latino (professional-service frat) I cannot imagine guys actually getting together and taking the time to come up with a chant like this and then chant it on a charter bus. That's just dumb, I have no sympathy for these Oklahoma guys, they got what they deserved.

[Wahawahwah]

I hesitate to enter the debate, given that Im neither black nor white.

Racism is everywhere, hell children are born bigoted. The best kinds of relationships between men of different races that Ive observed or known involves playful ribbing about each others' race and other non-PC banter, which acknowledges each others' differences.

Freedom of speech is great.
Rebelling against the PC culture is okay sometimes.
However if you are rebelling against the status quo, you also need to cover your own fucking ass... someone mentioned the jumbotron in the comments.

That being said, actions of these sorts, when revealed to the world need to be punished.

Maybe the punishment is over-the-top(not arguing either way) under the pressure of oversensitive media troglodytes.
But some action must be taken against overtly racist behavior because if it is not, that gives implicit permission to other people who come in contact with the actions (and with social media, that could number thousands) to overtly discriminate on the basis of race.... in a lot of cases this implicit permission means that these people act out their insecurities and repressed energy in this form.

Control in society is necessary to an extent, because otherwise we slip back into our base natures and anarchy rises.
Like it or not, we all are part of this society.

When enforcing this control, there is collateral damage. Chalk this one up to that.

Im not saying racism is acceptable in any way, it is not.
But people will be racist, and it is the responsibility of general society to ensure that these actions are kept in check, given the horrific potential consequences of unrestrained bigotry.

Those guys were idiots; they'll suffer the consequences.
I fail to understand the purpose of going at each others' throats over an activity which we did not partake in and few if any of us are directly affected by. The world is not falling.

We're all brothers and trolls.

[Teutatis]

(03-09-2015 08:18 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

A few random thoughts on this:

Yet another example of a man (or men) getting betrayed by a vindictive woman.

How do you know that? Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.

Quote:

Yet another example of smartphones absolutely destroying normal socialization.

C'mon, while I agree that nowadays you can't sneeze without someone filming you and putting it on YT, this is not normal socialization.

Quote:

It's hilarious and pathetic to see people falling all over themselves and feigning horror and outrage at what a bunch of 19 year olds said on a private bus ride.

I don't know if it's feigning outrage, people have the right to be upset with this. These kids are a bunch of idiots.

Quote:

It's incredibly obvious at this point that the media is intentionally manufacturing outrage over stories like this. Contrast the media outrage over this story with the silence over the mass rape of 1500 children by Muslim gangs in Rotherham. This is progressive logic: white men saying nigger on a bus is worse than Muslims raping 1500 children with the complicity of police.

Yes, it's true that whites are disproportionately targeted by the media whenever race is brought up and are the bogyman, and yes, compared to what happened in Rotherham this is nothing, but just because Rotherham was horrific and on a whole different level, it doesn't excuse this behavior. Put yourself in the University's shoes, they have no other choice but to punish these kids.

I don't believe they would really ever act on those words, but that doesn't change the fact that these kids are idiots, just as a group of black kids chanting about killing whites would be idiots, and I'm sure outrage over that would happen as well, and deservedly so.

These kids certainly need to face some kind of punishment as they were representing their University, how dumb and retarded of them, with that being said I'm also sure the punishment will be disproportionate to the crime.

[vinman]

   

[Atlanta Man]

(03-09-2015 09:45 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  

Its obvious you don't give two shits about the fact that most racial crime in America is directed against whites. The fact you chose to jump into this thread to make a point about how whites are getting away with being racists just shows you hate white people.

Most white people are killed by other white people. Most black people are killed by other black people. Black people make up 12% of the population, white people make up +50%. So for white people to overtake black people in racially motivated crime would be the equivalent of racial terrorism like how America was from it's inception until roughly 1971.

[Suits]

(03-09-2015 11:01 PM)Wadsworth Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 10:53 PM)Sourcecode Wrote:  

This is where you logic is flawed.

The school DID have a part of this.
The school grants the charters for these fraternities. Essential the Frat represents the school.

The school is its own company.. its own brand and this frat as vouched for by this brand.
Would you want people like this to be representing your company?
Or would you formally make it known that you are dissolving your relationship with them?
If one of your employees is pulling money from the register when you are not around..or selling drugs from behind the counter....do you want him to continue working for you.
Or will you tell yourself.. that..he is just a a single employee.. he doesn't represent the company?

The fact that companies have to publicly disavow the actions of their employees, or that politicians have to publicly disavow the actions of someone in their party is exactly part of the climate we've allowed to flourish, and it is completely irrational. It's basically what you'd expect in a witch hunt, if someone you know is accused of being a witch, you denounce them as loudly as possible to direct the inquisitor away from you.

Of course I wouldn't want an employee stealing my money or selling drugs, but is that the same thing?

There are some things that should be disavowed.

This story is a good example of something that should be disavowed.

Just because people and organizations have taken it too far at other times by disavowing things that are entirely repulsive, like this frat's behavior and attitudes, doesn't mean that the university did not act correctly in this case.

[Atlanta Man]

(03-09-2015 09:56 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  

If a black fraternity was taped saying white men should be hanged there would be zero repercussions.

Black college educated men would never say anything that stupid, so the argument is moot. White college men in several southern schools likely have chants similar to this because bigotry and hatred runs deep in this country, even in higher education.

[speakeasy]

I'm not sure what the school's reaction should be to this but when they are making jokes about lynching black people I can do nothing but hate them.

[Saladin]

That's a whole bus singing that chant.

Pretty fucked up.

This isn't somebody making a joke in private to a friend, this is dozens of people chanting something that's would fit right in a lynching. There's nothing funny about this and no way you can say it was an "innocent joke".

They deserve the public shaming they get.

[Kingsley Davis]