[TravellingSoldier]

9-5 is a lot of work? I sometimes hear people complaining on my Facebook about not wanting to go into work, 8 hours is so long... Try 12-16 hrs every day for weeks on end, working outside in -40. That is the oil sands though and not your business.

The difference I have though is not a second goes by while I'm working on personal ventures that I see it as work. In my path to starting a business I've put in more than 80+ hr weeks. It never felt like work to me though. In the last few weeks alone I've learned lots of lessons:

- Never go the cheap route when hiring, pay for quality and vet your workers carefully because you can lose a lot of money with slack labour.
- patience (things don't happen over night)
- writing skills (blogging, full written content for text on website, how-to guides)
- photo shop and design skills (never knew how to use a single button in PS until a few weeks ago.. Don't consider myself very visually creative but I'm making nice icons and custom content)
- Confidence and sales

The difference between working for someone and working for yourself is the former is work, the latter is more of a learning experience. Sure, there have been days where I was so frustrated and overwhelmed I sat with my face in my hands for a little while... But I've also experienced the most excitement and happiness in my life.

Starting a business isn't just starting a business. Its learning, creating something of value and taking a calculated risk. Kinda like gambling and you want to be rainman.

[Switch]

(02-02-2015 05:57 AM)dads Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 09:55 PM)Switch Wrote:  

I am in a similar situation to OP. 18 and I really don't see myself in a 9 to 5. Being ''average" scares me, and all advice I get from family is "go to college, get good job, get married, retire". Family is willing to support me for undergrad on the condition I have a good GPA, meaning tuition and room and board. But if I decide to not go to/delay college, I'd be out of the house immediately with no support in any way.

I want to travel, learn a third language, fuck, explore online business opportunities, etc. My family wouldn't support this and I'm starting to think I'm crazy for even considering passing on such a 'surefire' college plan that is laid out right in front of me. But I have such a strong desire to get out of my current situation and explore the world (and its women) and I know this feeling of wanderlust will continue till I die, basically . Any input from you guys would be awesome. I've got some shit to figure out and RVF can give the best advice on the internet.

Grain of salt here, as I'm only 20, but you should be aware that a 9-5 is a hell of a lot of work for those "average" people you seem to be looking down on. If you don't want to work a 9-5, you're going to have to be willing to work 24 hours a day to make shit happen. No one wants to be average, but must people are because they aren't willing to work. The desire to not be average isn't even .00001 percent of what it takes.

I didn't mean for my post to come across as condescending towards people who work in 9-5 jobs. All I meant was that I think I would go crazy if I had that type of position. I'd much rather spend 15 hours per day working on my own projects than 8 each day working for a large corporation.

I also don't think any traditional white-collar jobs that are actually worth working are going to be on 40-hour per week schedules anyway. I would bet most people who make reasonable cash in an office job are working at least 50 or 60 hours per week. 40-hour work weeks won't lead to prosperity for most people.

[Eddie Winslow]

I understand why you are asking this question OP - however, if I was 18 again and know what I know now, the first thing I would do is take a good long look in the mirror and ask "what do I want?" No one can answer that besides you - not me, Roosh, your family, your friends, or the media.

It's a very innocent question. I asked it all the time, even well in to my 20s. I think this is what I regret most in life so far.

I allowed others, many who are not even important, dictate my life for my first 25+ years. It's crazy to let random people on the internet, who know absolutely nothing about you or your aspirations in life, advise you on what you 'should' be doing. The only advice I can give you is to dream big and whatever YOU like, go do that.

Do you get excited about art?
Music?
Science?
Athletics?
Being Rich?
Being Powerful?
Travel?
Banging everything in sight?
Love?
Spirituality?
Taking care of others?

Some of these things probably excite you, maybe all of them do. Or none of them.

This forum contains a very diverse group of men. There are probably a number of older, experienced guys here who have accomplished whatever it is you want to accomplish and who share your many of your interests. But you have to take some serious time to figure out who you are and what you really want, or its completely meaningless.

[Constitution45]

(01-30-2015 09:55 PM)Switch Wrote:  

I am in a similar situation to OP. 18 and I really don't see myself in a 9 to 5. Being ''average" scares me, and all advice I get from family is "go to college, get good job, get married, retire". Family is willing to support me for undergrad on the condition I have a good GPA, meaning tuition and room and board. But if I decide to not go to/delay college, I'd be out of the house immediately with no support in any way.

I want to travel, learn a third language, fuck, explore online business opportunities, etc. My family wouldn't support this and I'm starting to think I'm crazy for even considering passing on such a 'surefire' college plan that is laid out right in front of me. But I have such a strong desire to get out of my current situation and explore the world (and its women) and I know this feeling of wanderlust will continue till I die, basically . Any input from you guys would be awesome. I've got some shit to figure out and RVF can give the best advice on the internet.

Its funny this, I am now in my early 20s and was saying exactly same things as you four/five years ago to my friends and family. Really you have to do what you think will challenge you and help you build your empire, figuratively of course. It is a tough but good position to be in as you have to ultimately take responsibility for your decision but there isn't a black and white answer to your situation.

Truth if you can be traveling the world, having sex with exotic women and making money, way into your 30s; let alone your late twenties. There really isn't a cut off point. Most people don't do this because they don't think big. I wouldn't completely go against university, as if you are going into a specific trade or field then the degree will be paramount. Also if anything university got me out of the 9 to 5 conundrum as options started to present themselves through networking.

If however you want to travel, then I suggest living abroad via teaching; this is a good way to get into a country and explore it. You will have a lot of freedom as well as a pay check, before long you could possibly move into doing something you better enjoy. Or another option would be going to study at a university in a different country.

[Old Fritz]

what are some jobs that I can get abroad without a college degree?

[TravellingSoldier]

^ You can always buy a fake diploma! I don't know if I'd get in trouble on this forum for talking about it but I know of an underground marketplace using the TOR browser where you can buy legit diplomas. I think some of them even have contacts in schools that will enter you into the school system. This would be a couple hundred bucks.

I don't know if I'm the only one here that's explored the "dark web" but look up .onion URLs there is some crazy shit.

[Phoenix]

(01-30-2015 05:53 PM)harveyspecter Wrote:  

I understand but I do not see that happening easily, my parents are very keen that I get a college degree.
...
When you put it like that it sounds very easy to travel but I really know that my parents would be very opposed to that and that I'm not even sure that I'm capable just going in another country trying to get a job without knowing anyone and going alone.
...
But it is hard for me to make that decision and just travel there alone, I'm very attached in the place I'm currently living, I just do not have balls to do that. Maybe I should find them beacuse it isn't too late but...

I am going to be harsh to be kind.

You're soft and weak. You're dependent on the blessing of your parents like a child, not a man. You're attached to comfort like a baby with its blanket, not like a man of ambition striding out into the world.

I exhort you, for your own good, to take an independent action of some sort. You are the ultimate decider of what is in your interests, not your relatives. You have come here because you know this.

The suggestions in this thread are already all over the place and many of them contradict so I won't add my own list. But I will make one suggestion.

You should take one trip, alone, to a country of your choice, which has a foreign culture. Doesn't have to be long, could be a week or two. But you must do this for your development as an independent man. Do not ask anyone for 'permission' or advice on this. Just buy the ticket, and go. I suspect you may learn where the true interests of your relatives lie when you recieve their reaction.

[Mike0060]

If possible, take a fork lift course and work in warehousing or start a trade apprentice for a year. Earn a fair wage. Save up money while living with your parents and explore your options. If you do take academics, make sure it has a profession at the end.
Eg. STEM or Accounting or Law.

Or on a tangent, see if your parents have any friends with connections that can get you an entry level job at a good company. Nothing wrong with 9-5.

[Bear Hands]

Everyone I know who has "fuck you" money either works a lot more than 9-5 or a lot less. The men working 60+ hours a week are making money on volume of time and have a passion for what they do. The men working 40 hours a week are not working 9-5, they're working more like 6 AM - 6 PM 3 days a week and then working from home for the last 4 hours, though these men occasionally have longer work weeks and usually transition into the 60+ hours a week category after promotion. The men working less than 40 hours a week are not making the majority of their money by the hour.

[Porscho]

Very interesting posts on this thread
One thing I read here many times is to go into studying computer science and learning coding. I am doing this route right now and I'm thinking about changing to studying economics. I actually quite like the job but doing it for 8 hours a day makes myself not wanting to socialize much and change me. However I try to compensate by activities that don't fit the cliché like MMA. There are definitely opportunities in coding, however look at the Appstore. It has more than 1 million apps. If you break the average earnings down to one programmer per hour it comes down to probably like 1$ by extracting the most profitable 0.5% apps (a year ago I looked into this and tried to calculate it with the information available). Learning some HTML, CSS & Javascript and take a CMS like Wordpress can definitely help, but learning something like C++ I don't see the point when you're trying to make money. There is huge amount of people trying to make a fortune with websites etc. and there are many who are able to do it. However the huge number of people who fail after having spent thousands of hours into a project are not talked about. It's not the market which it was 15 years ago. There is an app for everything.

At the time I'm still thinking hard about going into Day Trading. But studying the market for less than 4 hours a day I see myself not making any money because of not being able to analyze the market enough (did it 2 years ago for a year 4 hours a day). So starting to do it part time without making losses requires having a lot of free time. It's also risky. Anyone starting to it I advise to start with fake money (demo account).

Reading the book "Think and Grow Rich" by Napoleon Hill was definitely extremely mind opening on what to do with my life and how to approach things.

[travolta]

(01-29-2015 05:57 PM)LINUX Wrote:  

If I was 18 I would be planning my spring break in Panama City Florida right now. The last thing on my mind would be working. You have your whole life to work. Go make some mistakes man.

As somebody who has gone twice when I was in college, I can say that Spring break in PCB is actually very difficult to get laid. Especially if you're not dialed into that scene (large social circles of frat guys and sorority girls), it can be frustrating. Honestly I wouldn't recommend most people to go, unless you want the novelty of an "MTV Spring Break." IMO it's a way better move for the average guy to go to a party destination in SE Asia and fuck tourists. Somewhere like Koh Phangnan. I'd suggest PCB spring break to guys if they're rolling in a large group, like to get super fucked up, and have a "life of the party" vibe.

[Hotwheels]

Buy a 1970 Cadillac convertible and stuff 10 broads in it.

*Wait. Already did that.

But I'd do it again.

[DaveR]

If you're a Croatian citizen there are plenty of European countries in which you may study for free or close to it: http://www.studyineurope.eu/tuition-fees

Austria is not far from you...

After saying that, university should be avoided until you know what you need the qualification for. If you don't know what you want to do after graduation, there is a high chance that you'll just be passing time there.

[jake1720]

Go to a state school, major in Poly sci, graduate in 3 years, get close to a 4.0, go into IB, then hedge funds. Then START a hedge fund.

Someone from high school just did this. Minus starting the hedge fund (so far).

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

(06-10-2015 10:58 PM)jake1720 Wrote:  

Go to a state school, major in Poly sci, graduate in 3 years, get close to a 4.0, go into IB, then hedge funds. Then START a hedge fund.

Someone from high school just did this. Minus starting the hedge fund (so far).

Why political science and not economics or even econometrics? Do you consider those disciplines too 'academic' and not necessarily applicable to the real world?

[andy]

Do what YOU want, NOT what everyone else expects, or wants. Learn to say, 'NO'. If you don't want to college, don't just look at the consequences of NOT going, but also look at the positives that come along with it. As someone in their mid-20's, living in this cesspool that used to be America, I can't tell you how many 18-year old guys I see, who just are buying into the college lie, maybe its our parents generation, but I have to think that, a few years from turning 30, that bullshit booze cruise has sailed. College is only good if you want to be an engineer, or something STEM related, otherwise, don't go, at least not if you will have to pay for it. I look at my older brother, he's 28, and STILL has college debt, and had to join up in the airforce, to pay his debt off, and even with $11k left in student loans, he STILL has debt, from NOT just student loans, but also credit card debt, I look at that, and think to myself, college does nothing but turn people into debt whores, riding the financial equivalent of a cock carousel. I contrast that with what I did, which was find a decent job in IT, albeit part-time: I paid for my two-year degree, have no debt, and will have 2-3 years on my BA degree paid for, and not by me. I sometimes have to remind myself of how well I have it, because one thing that is hard, is when you're not in debt, but friends and family are, and you see them with cars, phones and what not, and you think its not that bad, thats one problem I have faced, is forgetting how well I've got it compared to most people, so I'd also add that as well; don't get debt, and don't forget it could be worse, much worse.

[DaveR]

(06-12-2015 09:56 AM)andy Wrote:  

Do what YOU want, NOT what everyone else expects, or wants. Learn to say, 'NO'. If you don't want to college, don't just look at the consequences of NOT going, but also look at the positives that come along with it. As someone in their mid-20's, living in this cesspool that used to be America, I can't tell you how many 18-year old guys I see, who just are buying into the college lie, maybe its our parents generation, but I have to think that, a few years from turning 30, that bullshit booze cruise has sailed. College is only good if you want to be an engineer, or something STEM related, otherwise, don't go, at least not if you will have to pay for it. I look at my older brother, he's 28, and STILL has college debt, and had to join up in the airforce, to pay his debt off, and even with $11k left in student loans, he STILL has debt, from NOT just student loans, but also credit card debt, I look at that, and think to myself, college does nothing but turn people into debt whores, riding the financial equivalent of a cock carousel. I contrast that with what I did, which was find a decent job in IT, albeit part-time: I paid for my two-year degree, have no debt, and will have 2-3 years on my BA degree paid for, and not by me. I sometimes have to remind myself of how well I have it, because one thing that is hard, is when you're not in debt, but friends and family are, and you see them with cars, phones and what not, and you think its not that bad, thats one problem I have faced, is forgetting how well I've got it compared to most people, so I'd also add that as well; don't get debt, and don't forget it could be worse, much worse.

All good points, but the OP is a citizen of an EU member state. He can easily study "for free" (charged to someone else's taxation bill).

After saying that, I'm not arguing with the points - even a free university education can amount to not much more than four lost years if there isn't much thought before enrolment.

[andy]

(06-12-2015 10:08 AM)DaveR Wrote:  

(06-12-2015 09:56 AM)andy Wrote:  

Do what YOU want, NOT what everyone else expects, or wants. Learn to say, 'NO'. If you don't want to college, don't just look at the consequences of NOT going, but also look at the positives that come along with it. As someone in their mid-20's, living in this cesspool that used to be America, I can't tell you how many 18-year old guys I see, who just are buying into the college lie, maybe its our parents generation, but I have to think that, a few years from turning 30, that bullshit booze cruise has sailed. College is only good if you want to be an engineer, or something STEM related, otherwise, don't go, at least not if you will have to pay for it. I look at my older brother, he's 28, and STILL has college debt, and had to join up in the airforce, to pay his debt off, and even with $11k left in student loans, he STILL has debt, from NOT just student loans, but also credit card debt, I look at that, and think to myself, college does nothing but turn people into debt whores, riding the financial equivalent of a cock carousel. I contrast that with what I did, which was find a decent job in IT, albeit part-time: I paid for my two-year degree, have no debt, and will have 2-3 years on my BA degree paid for, and not by me. I sometimes have to remind myself of how well I have it, because one thing that is hard, is when you're not in debt, but friends and family are, and you see them with cars, phones and what not, and you think its not that bad, thats one problem I have faced, is forgetting how well I've got it compared to most people, so I'd also add that as well; don't get debt, and don't forget it could be worse, much worse.

All good points, but the OP is a citizen of an EU member state. He can easily study "for free" (charged to someone else's taxation bill).

After saying that, I'm not arguing with the points - even a free university education can amount to not much more than four lost years if there isn't much thought before enrolment.

My bad, I would then suggest to the OP, to consider that, unlike money, time is NOT expendable, and unless you find a degree that really interests you and pays good, don't waste your time, you might also look into a trade, or maybe create a product or company in the same time? who knows, only you do. One thing I will say about college, is that, unlike certifications in IT, they can't take it away, at least not easily. OP just remember, at the end of the day, you answer to yourself, financially and decision wise, family and friends like to play god alot with peoples lives, and there are some instances where their input is important, but just remember, you will pay the piper and not them. Best of luck though!

[samsamsam]

I haven't read the entire thread, apologies on that.

While I can relate to wanting to always make the best decisions, life is to be lived. I would say make mistakes and learn the solid lessons while young.

I am sure many of us can relate to the following. Someone tells you doing xyz is bad, but you are still curious. You do xyz, you realize they were right, but the lesson is burned into you. Sometimes advice without the experience (not the experience of the person giving the advice - the experience of the person gets from taking an action), leaves the lesson incomplete. Actually, it isn't even a lesson because there was nothing teachable.

So don't spend all your (general not OP specific) trying to figure stuff out, sometimes you just gotta do it and live it.

Edit: But for the more practical.
1) Learn to think for yourself
2) Learn to be self-reliant
3) Create your own stream of income
4) See and touch all you can early on, so you can focus on what you want out of life. Some of us have dreams about certain things, but we have never touched or felt it. We think it will be an xyz experience but when we get there we realize it is not. But spent years building towards it.

[harveyspecter]

Thank you for all the advices, I will most likely go study computer science and try to build some source of income through that 5 years.

I'm choosing that college because I really have 0 interest in going in any other college and for this one I have atleast some minimum interest.

[robreke]

Learn game and bang as much ass as possible between now and age 30. I would have gotten laid so much more if this kind of stuff like the RVF forum and red pill knowledge would have been available when I was 18.

Take up some hobby or activity that you want to become great in. Time is on your side and if you start a sport or hobby such as golf, playing guitar, tennis, etc and you put in regular practice, you'll be a master in that within 10 years. Which means, you'll be a master at something ( for example a master, badass guitar player) by age 28.....which is STILL Young. Then , you can use that proficiency , whatever it is, for the rest of your life to your benefit. eg.... I didn't take up guitar until mid 30s.

Lift and develop a good foundation of a powerful body. The body you build as a teenager and young man through your 20s will be a great foundation that will stay with you for the rest of your life. So, if you can build and maintain a powerful body starting now throughout your 20s, even if you take some time off later in life, that foundation will still be there since you built it when you were young.

Open an IRA and/or an investment account and save 10% of everything you earn. Have it draft directly from your checking account or pay check each month if possible so it's on auto pilot and you don't even have to think about it. That way , you're paying yourself first, as The Richest Man in Babylon states. Invest this 10% in growth stock mutual funds and let it ride. By age 40, 45 and 50, you'll be so much richer and wealthier than the vast majority of people your age, it won't even be funny. If I'd have done this starting at even age 20, I'd be independently wealthy now and be able to do whatever I wanted instead of having to be beholden to my business. I enjoy my business and my work affords me freedom.....but, if I had done this 10% deal, I could walk away anytime I wanted by now and traveled the world/etc.

Don't get into debt. Avoid credit cards and car debt ( unless you get a good rate) if possible. Mortgages are considered "better" debt and they are....but you shouldn't be thinking about buying a house for years. Renting is fine.

There's some ideas off the top of my head from a guy approaching middle age.