[Dalaran1991]

In a few month I'll be done with my Sociology Master, as soon as I finish my internship.

If I work hard and smart I think I can find a job with my degree though it won't be anything fancy.

As people have suggested in my earlier thread about transitioning from student to worker, it's probably best to finish all the schooling I would ever want to and enjoy being a student for as long as I can before the cake is eaten.

I would certainly get some marketable degree this time, but there are so many options. I don't much like team work but I love problem solving, high autonomy and research pertaining to society/market/behavior. I also like interpreting statistic and analyzing trends. (Sociology is a lot of statistic)

Anything that has to do with Finance/Accounting is not really my taste.

Here are the options I have in mind:

-Business administration
-Corporate Strategy
-Marketing
-Media and Communication
-If you wanna work in sale, what do you study?
-Anything else that you guys suggest?
-Human resources. I'll make sure no feminazi rules the office
Forget about law school. Anyone ever lives in Europe will know what I'm talking about.

Can you guys enlighten me about the options I listed? Of course also taking into account red-pill elements like work environment, unseen benefit/disadvantage, how hot chicks are, etc.

Thanks

[LouEvilSlugger]

Sounds management consulting would be a good fit for you, they would certainly like your background in social sciences. Look into pre-work experience 1-2 year master programs (Master in Management / MiM) at HEC Paris, ESCP, EM Lyon, etc. they are usually taught in English.

[edtf]

How about master's in statistics? You can end up as a consultant analyzing big data, which will be more and more valuable for companies looking for data-driven and rational operating strategies. Many companies will be hiring people with big data expertise, and you can easily pull 6 figures in a big data job. You can also freelance and do quite well, since you can take in contracts as they come in.

If you're interested, coursera.com has a free data science course that will explain how a lot of it works.

[monster]

If I didn't have to worry about $$$ I'd stay in college forever!

Get a master's in a mathematics focused degree. You already have sociology which is all "pseudosciences" (economics, marketing, psychology, etc), get something dealing in hard figures like math or stats or engineering. That translates to the real world these days better than anything. Everything is math - wall st, hollywood, tech, etc.

MBAs are overated. Only valuable if you get one from Wharton or Harvard. Everything in business is specialized now and you will start as a specialist in something. You can't learn management from a university program, you learn through experience, and the world's starting to see that, hence dwindling respect for generalist MBAs

[Easy_C]

(01-13-2015 10:17 PM)monster Wrote:  

MBAs are overated. Only valuable if you get one from Wharton or Harvard. Everything in business is specialized now and you will start as a specialist in something. You can't learn management from a university program, you learn through experience, and the world's starting to see that, hence dwindling respect for generalist MBAs

Hardly the case that an "MBA" is valueless. The catch is that, for the OP, any MBA program worth its salt is going to expect you to have several years of work experience that he doesn't have. For advanced business degrees the most competitive students(both for admissions and follow on employment) have five years of experience in their chosen specialization.

Some of those degrees can be fairly valuable, although I will second that a specialization is key. It's definitely not true that you need a "Wharton or Harvard" MBA to succeed. Several programs have excellent reputations in specific fields. Chicago-Boothe is a top rated finance school with new graduates earning an average base salary of $115k(that's right, BASE). A few good examples can be found in the form of schools with targeted "securities analysis" programs that prepare you for wealth management careers. Others are strong regionally. Emory university is one of the best Southeastern schools and is also likely to get you a six figure base salary. More comprehensive data is available here: http://poetsandquants.com/2014/03/13/wha...0-schools/


Where the value becomes more debatable is that you almost always have a high market value to begin with before you can get into these schools. Admission typically requires high standardized test scores (90th percentile or higher on a test that has mostly capable takers to begin with), a strong undergraduate GPA(3.3 or better to be competive), and most importantly outstanding recommendations, a track record of promotion, and excellent essay writing/interview skills. If you've got an interesting story or "privilege group" status(minority, female, combat injured military, etc) a weakness in one of those areas can be mitigated.



To the OP:

Don't. You won't get a worthwhile business degree without work experience. You're better off entering the workforce now, while making sure to focus on making sure that you build up a strong resume and network effectively so you can find support in future endeavors. One of the specializations you mentioned is something that you should keep in the back of your mind if you have to decide between multiple opportunities now but you won't have to make a hard choice until 3-5 years from now if you take the MBA route.

I make those recommendations for a reason. Your professional recommendations are the single biggest factor that will determine whether you get into most top 30 MBA programs. Since you don't have any work experience your recommendations are by definition academic, not professional.

[komatiite]

Monster and EDTF hit it on the head! Love the statistics idea, just make sure you do something that focuses on math, it's where the money is. Don't pursue any more liberal arts, those are a dime a dozen nowadays.

Get good at something that's hard to do.

[Dalaran1991]

I'm not particularly fond of maths (funny cause I'm Asian) but statistics won't hurt. So you guys are saying Maths-related fields are hiring, even in Business? In the long run math-related specialization would be better than a MBA?

@Easy: a few of my advisors also urge me to start working, even if it's an entry-level job to get experience ASAP, and they told me "you will eventually get a MBA anyway, but not now". I just feel like I should be done with schooling while I'm still young enough to enjoy it. Going back to school being 28+ would feel weird, even if I want to game.

[LouEvilSlugger]

(01-14-2015 04:32 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  

I make those recommendations for a reason. Your professional recommendations are the single biggest factor that will determine whether you get into most top 30 MBA programs. Since you don't have any work experience your recommendations are by definition academic, not professional.

One of my closest friend got dinged by Harvard Business School even though all his references had attended HBS. Top business schools look for certain profiles which differ from school to school, some schools will appreciate ex-military dudes or engineers, and others will prefer social sciences grads and entrepreneurs. My friend would have killed it at HBS but didn't fit the profile they were looking for. Admission is far more based on the candidate's background and backstory than whoever wrote them letters of recommendation (unless it's a a high level political official like a president / prime minister or a CEO of course).

[monster]

(01-14-2015 03:00 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

I'm not particularly fond of maths (funny cause I'm Asian) but statistics won't hurt. So you guys are saying Maths-related fields are hiring, even in Business? In the long run math-related specialization would be better than a MBA?

@Easy: a few of my advisors also urge me to start working, even if it's an entry-level job to get experience ASAP, and they told me "you will eventually get a MBA anyway, but not now". I just feel like I should be done with schooling while I'm still young enough to enjoy it. Going back to school being 28+ would feel weird, even if I want to game.

There are two reasons you go to grad school: a) the alumni network, b) to specialize in a subject. Believe it that (a) the alumni network is a whole lot more important than the training you receive. If you can't schmooze, there's not even a point to going to grad school.

A degree is only worth the alumni that have the same degree from the same school.

That is why Harvard and Ivy League's are better than the rest - you learn the exact same shit - but you don't have the golden key to all the prestigious connections.

Success in business is about relationships first, and skills second. Anyone can be taught the skills, and it's ironic that those who are best & most talented in skills are also the worst in relationships.

[Wahawahwah]

I second EasyCs recommendation. Go out, get an entry level job, work, schmooze, focus on work experience and increased responsibility or a well respected brand firm rather than the money in the short term. Keep your head up, stay alert for any potential switches to such positions if u Dont get your ideal job right off the bat. 2 years down the line, give your GMAT, start lookin up MBA colleges.

Any degree right now would yield diminishing returns, an MBA 3-5 years down the line would give u the ability to trade up in terms of job profiles or allow you to repivot.

You're young right now, get a few years of work ex down your belt asap. Working will also help you get a clearer idea of where you want to end up professionally in the long term rather than listening to what other people or current hiring trends point towards.

P.S. you can always take Data Analytics or quant heavy courses during your MBA also. A lot of programs also allow you to take a course or two from their MS schools during an MBA..

P.P.S : If you do end up taking the GMAT, be forewarned : MBA admissions are somewhat demographic focused so you'll have do get a decent quant score to compete with other Asians given that you also have a non quant Masters...but do well on the Verbal and its easy to move ahead of the competition.

[Easy_C]

(01-14-2015 08:18 PM)LouEvilSlugger Wrote:  

(01-14-2015 04:32 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  

I make those recommendations for a reason. Your professional recommendations are the single biggest factor that will determine whether you get into most top 30 MBA programs. Since you don't have any work experience your recommendations are by definition academic, not professional.

One of my closest friend got dinged by Harvard Business School even though all his references had attended HBS. Top business schools look for certain profiles which differ from school to school, some schools will appreciate ex-military dudes or engineers, and others will prefer social sciences grads and entrepreneurs. My friend would have killed it at HBS but didn't fit the profile they were looking for. Admission is far more based on the candidate's background and backstory than whoever wrote them letters of recommendation (unless it's a a high level political official like a president / prime minister or a CEO of course).

I should clarify. "Most" business schools rely heavily on outstanding letters. Others use different formulas. For example Emory University bases 30-40% of the decision weight on a candidate's interview.....so if you are fantastic but your interviewer doesn't like you then you're fucked.

[Easy_C]

Quote:

Any degree right now would yield diminishing returns, an MBA 3-5 years down the line would give u the ability to trade up in terms of job profiles or allow you to repivot.

Which is exactly the point of an MBA. With a few exceptions(investment banking being the biggest) it's not for people who are doing well and settled into a career path. It's for people who have work experience under their belt and are looking to either shift their career focus (e.g. you've worked in operations and want to become competitive for corporate strategy jobs), people who want to change industries (like an Investment banker who is sick of the hours and wants to become a consultant), or people who have a strong resume to begin with but want access to the recruiting opportunities and network an elite MBA offers. You also get a lot of military because in most cases their resume doesn't translate directly to civilian work experience. Since most B-schools love military officers it allows them to get a salary exponentially higher than what military experience alone would.

[Cheetah]

Quote:

Forget about law school. Anyone ever lives in Europe will know what I'm talking about.

Can you expound?

[komatiite]

(01-14-2015 11:07 PM)Sharkie Wrote:  

I second EasyCs recommendation. Go out, get an entry level job, work, schmooze, focus on work experience and increased responsibility or a well respected brand firm rather than the money in the short term.

Good advice but he has a sociology degree, I'd imagine it will be hard to get a good job with that. Maybe it's easier in France but in NAmerica all that really leads to is making Lattes at Starbucks. I say cut your losses and pick up an actual skill in a mathematical field if he doesn't land some dream job that about 1% of Arts majors actually get.

[komatiite]

(01-14-2015 10:17 PM)monster Wrote:  

Success in business is about relationships first, and skills second. Anyone can be taught the skills, and it's ironic that those who are best & most talented in skills are also the worst in relationships.

This quote is so simplistic. People think that you can build these relationships by following the CEO into some scotch and cigar bar and Wow-ing him with your incredible wit. From there, you get connected to the CEO of another company and since you are such an awesome fella you get like six firms bidding to poach you.

This isn't how real life works for 99.9% of the world.

The best way to get in the bosses good books is by working your ass off and proving you are useful to the company, which is often done by being good at something that is hard to do. Yes you do need interpersonal skills but that will only get you so far, especially in today's technologically driven results oriented business world.

[LouEvilSlugger]

(01-14-2015 10:17 PM)monster Wrote:  

Success in business is about relationships first, and skills second. Anyone can be taught the skills, and it's ironic that those who are best & most talented in skills are also the worst in relationships.

You must be trolling. Relationships over skills is only true if you're self-employed or in middle management in the corporate world. In both cases you mostly delegate tasks to your staff.

I considered a career in invesment banking / management consulting a few years ago and have tons of friends working in the industry from analyst to partner levels, some of them are active in the recruting process at their firms and every one of them stress technical skills over relationship skills. Part of why banks like Goldman Sachs mostly hire borderline anti-social Ivy League engineering grads with +3.8 GPA's is purely for their skills and learning abilities, the business side can easily be taught to you once on the job. It takes up to 4-5 hardcore years to train an engineer but only months to be a semi-competent businessman / entrepreneur.

[Easy_C]

(01-15-2015 08:04 PM)komatiite Wrote:  

(01-14-2015 10:17 PM)monster Wrote:  

Success in business is about relationships first, and skills second. Anyone can be taught the skills, and it's ironic that those who are best & most talented in skills are also the worst in relationships.

This quote is so simplistic. People think that you can build these relationships by following the CEO into some scotch and cigar bar and Wow-ing him with your incredible wit. From there, you get connected to the CEO of another company and since you are such an awesome fella you get like six firms bidding to poach you.

It's simplistic, but extremely profitable for any number of "networking" groups and professional "networkers".

[Parlay44]

Just look up the kind of jobs you're interested in and see what they're looking for. If you search on http://www.indeed.com it indexes all the major job search sites in one simple interface. You can even filter by salary range. If a salary isn't posted they guess on what it's worth by job description.

You can even save searches and get custom notifications if something matches your search. It's a handy tool.

[Sp5]

Get a degree in petroleum engineering. You will live a life of adventure and be well compensated.

[The_CEO]

For anyone who believes that it's best to skip advanced degrees in favor of "networking" and reliance on "interpersonal skills" should really consider sales. That is precisely the skill set you need there.

Something else to take into account regarding the advice that you don't need a degree, it's who you know etc.
You can network, have good social skills, AND have an MBA, Masters in Finance or whatever. They are not mutually exclusive. You can also work and pursue your MBA at night...

Browse the top executive profiles of a website of a company you'd aspire to work at. Reflect on how many of them have MBA's or another advanced degree.

[Easy_C]

Again, point still stands. The only MBA degrees that will take people without work experience are worthless. Good luck finding such a program with an average salary above 60k.

[Easy_C]

Also something else to consider: you generally can't get only two MBA's. I've yet to see a top-tier MBA program that will accept applicants who already have an MBA. Get one from a crappy school and you've just shot yourself in the foot because you won't ever have the option of attending a top tier full time or part time MBA program in the event you run into a glass ceiling.

[polar]

(01-19-2015 03:12 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

Also something else to consider: you generally can't get only two MBA's. I've yet to see a top-tier MBA program that will accept applicants who already have an MBA. Get one from a crappy school and you've just shot yourself in the foot because you won't ever have the option of attending a top tier full time or part time MBA program in the event you run into a glass ceiling.

@easy: what if an applicant simply didn't disclose his sub-par degree? Might not work if that leaves a gap on the resume if it was full-time, but if if it was part time?

[Easy_C]

It'll pop up when they do a background check on your application.

That said, a few schools list exceptions for MBA's that are " not judged to be equivalent" but that is typically referring to MBA's from shady institutions like CollegeAmerica, U Phoenix, etc.

[IronShark]

I would say stay in STEM fields. However, the listing you are suggesting is mainly in social science. In my opinion you really don't need a Master's degree if you really want to get into sales. Most employers (at least in the UK or US) see your shiny MSc Management or MBA nothing but one or two years being out of work. Maybe your degree still can impress some people in developing countries.

Again, there is a trend in the West that the universities are flooded by rich Arab and Chineses students. Most of them even can't compose a simple sentence in English. And they easily can pass through their degree by using services like this. I would say, if you have a undergrad degree, you're qualified enough to enter the job market. Unless you want to get into academia and become a university lecturer.