[GeroMeroHero]

(01-11-2015 09:20 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

I am no means playing the victim, the same issues Archie pointed out apply in Canada and England.

I really have to step in here. They don't. The excuse given for this is lingering legacy of slavery and jim crow, and yet nothing comparable occurred in those countries.

Whites won't pay reparations because only 1.6% of whites owned slaves. I hate to say it but I guarantee more than that percent of blacks have a criminal record, and yet cry foul when they are stereotyped.
http://americancivilwar.com/authors/blac...owners.htm
^ it says 1.4% of whites here but I am sticking with the higher number as I believe that was the peak.

Another reason whites won't pay reparations is that we are being uniquely and selectively blamed for slavery, despite (as has been pointed out) white nations being the first to ban slavery and enforce a world wide ban.

Go talk with the Arabs and African tribes and get them on board first. Not to mention descendants of slave owning blacks in the US, of which I believe there was a higher proportion than whites. Also in the above source.

I am finding that the side of this debate which is most keen to give ivory tower admonishments is the one with the most politically correct narrative.

The fact is that whites hold the moral high ground on slavery and discrimination. While certainly not ideal, white societies have a cleaner record on these issues than any other. I really don't think anyone will seriously dispute that

[Quintus Curtius]

I like hearing West Indian Archie's point of view.

Sometimes I don't understand everything, but I like hearing it.

Never stop bringing it here, WIA.

We need it.

I just wanted to say that. That's all.

[Geomann180]

(01-12-2015 12:31 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

I like hearing West Indian Archie's point of view.

Sometimes I don't understand everything, but I like hearing it.

Never stop bringing it here, WIA.

We need it.

I just wanted to say that. That's all.

I second this motion. There are plenty of posters who post things I completely disagree with. But I am thankful for them.

That they express their opinions here and I mine, is proof that this forum works.

G

[Avon Barksdale]

(01-10-2015 06:39 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Kendrick and J Cole are the two smartest young rappers in the game right now. I was not surprised to hear that he said this. You can tell that he thinks outside the box and like J Cole he is a heavy thinker.

Lil boosie comments were a big surprise. He was spot on too. He was one of the last rappers on earth I would expect to say what he did.

J cole, Kendrick Lemar, Childish Gambino, and Logic smartest dudes in the rap game

[Joga Bonito]

(01-12-2015 01:01 AM)Avon Barksdale Wrote:  

(01-10-2015 06:39 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Kendrick and J Cole are the two smartest young rappers in the game right now. I was not surprised to hear that he said this. You can tell that he thinks outside the box and like J Cole he is a heavy thinker.

Lil boosie comments were a big surprise. He was spot on too. He was one of the last rappers on earth I would expect to say what he did.

J cole, Kendrick Lemar, Childish Gambino, and Logic smartest dudes in the rap game

Jay Electronica. Mos Def. Black Thought. Nas. Common.

[enderilluminatus]

Some of those guys are just talented wordsmiths, not necessarily smart. Mos Def specifically is cringe inducing to see discussing current events on Bill Maher's show. Or Jay Electronica who literally thinks white people were invented by an evil scientist.

[TravelerKai]

(01-11-2015 09:20 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(01-10-2015 09:06 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(01-10-2015 03:55 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  

What facts did Kendrick get wrong?

"But when we don't have respect for ourselves, how do we expect them to respect us? It starts from within,"

That's some bullshit.
That's some grade A bullshit.

That's some "blame the victim" bullshit.

Personally, I don't find RVF to be conducive to discussing black politics, but this idea that if we just act right, then they'll just treat us right.

We have centuries of acting right and being BRUTALIZED for it. And that's just life and limb as well as liberty.

Let's just talk about the past 50-60 years.

When black people tried to go to good schools, they would go after children.
When that didn't stop, they moved en masse so that we couldn't go to their schools.
Those of us that make it to school, have a tough time, typically because of poor schools in the first place.

You make it through school, probably don't get the internship, because you never "fit the culture"

Send out resumes, get chunked if you have the wrong first name, if it sounds too black.

I could go on and on, but i'm talking about people that are actively trying to do it right, play by the rules.

Can't get anywhere. I could go on about health care, job and educational opportunities, as consumers, so on and so forth.

Black Americans in general respect themselves and play by the rules.
It's the norm.

Meanwhile NAACP offices, a now useless organization gets bombed and doesn't get any coverage.

So for Kendrick to say that if black people respected themselves then they'd treat us with respect.

Folks who agree with Kendrick just don't do the knowledge.

They see some young dudes with their boxer showing and be like "yo them niggas deserve to get shot, to get followed around by cops, etc"

Lot of them folks still don't think that we're human.

I'd tie this in to Cosby, but already my perspective is already odd man out.

WIA

Lets argue these facts instead of what Kendrick stated.

Sorry Kai, but a black mayor would not have helped the situation in Ferguson. We have a black president and these stories seem to be more regular as of late, the latest one being a 14 year old boy.

I know people love to point to other groups, but the Irish were given jobs in the police force when they came to America. The Italians were given jobs in construction and in turn established unions. Many incentives were given to certain groups to come to America.
Blacks were not even given an acre and a mule. When blacks talk about reparations people go quiet. Did you know Johnnie Cochrane was working on this before he became ill and passed away.

I am no means playing the victim, the same issues Archie pointed out apply in Canada and England.

How can you know that? If there was a black mayor that appointed his own police chief that was or is more familiar with black youths, and formed his own street enforcement policies, that confrontation could have been totally different. Also, how can you riot about injustice if your mayor and police chief are both black? You can't. That's the whole point.

They were not "given" all these positions of power. They had enough numbers (large families and immigrants) and colluded together with money with the more powerful members of their communities. The last time blacks rubbed their nickels together was Black Wall Street. It was very successful, tragically destroyed, but we never made attempts to retry that effort.

What good would that 40 acres and a mule had done if the White Southerners after Reconstruction took all of it back in a New York instant? The KKK destroyed everything we built up after the North pulled out and released Martial Law. They removed all our elected congressmen, and installed Black Codes (the precursor to Jim Crow laws)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Codes...ed_States)

You cannot have freedom, civil or economic, without someone to defend it or enforce it. The North let us down big time. And while we had every excuse from those earlier times, we no longer have anything left to elicit handouts or any other kind of support. The time to get things like this has long passed. So therefore, the only option left is to move forward with our own plans either individually or via family/tight-knit groups. To constantly look backward is the fool's option. We finally have the opportunity to integrate, we might as well take it.

[TravelerKai]

(01-12-2015 01:15 AM)Joga Bonito Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 01:01 AM)Avon Barksdale Wrote:  

(01-10-2015 06:39 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Kendrick and J Cole are the two smartest young rappers in the game right now. I was not surprised to hear that he said this. You can tell that he thinks outside the box and like J Cole he is a heavy thinker.

Lil boosie comments were a big surprise. He was spot on too. He was one of the last rappers on earth I would expect to say what he did.

J cole, Kendrick Lemar, Childish Gambino, and Logic smartest dudes in the rap game

Jay Electronica. Mos Def. Black Thought. Nas. Common.

Those guys are the Old Guard. You must throw Nas in there as well. Pharoahe Monch probably as well with De La Soul and Slick Rick.

MF Doom, Ras Kass, and Cannabis could also get an honorable mention as well. I bet I am missing another guy, but it is too early to think rap right now.

I never heard of Childish Gambino or Logic, I will have to check them out when I get a chance. Kirko Bangz can be pretty interesting with his witty lines regarding social interactions with people, but he isn't super deep though. Deep for a Southern rapper though.

[TravelerKai]

(01-12-2015 02:06 AM)enderilluminatus Wrote:  

Some of those guys are just talented wordsmiths, not necessarily smart. Mos Def specifically is cringe inducing to see discussing current events on Bill Maher's show. Or Jay Electronica who literally thinks white people were invented by an evil scientist.

I agree. They are not to be people we should get our ideology and guidance from a life perspective. They are artist first and foremost and have weird quirks. They are also entertainers that need to say interesting things in order to remain relevant. Outkast, Ludacris, and so many more have made lots of money doing that.

[TravelerKai]

(01-12-2015 12:16 AM)GeroMeroHero Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 09:20 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

I am no means playing the victim, the same issues Archie pointed out apply in Canada and England.

I really have to step in here. They don't. The excuse given for this is lingering legacy of slavery and jim crow, and yet nothing comparable occurred in those countries.

Whites won't pay reparations because only 1.6% of whites owned slaves. I hate to say it but I guarantee more than that percent of blacks have a criminal record, and yet cry foul when they are stereotyped.
http://americancivilwar.com/authors/blac...owners.htm
^ it says 1.4% of whites here but I am sticking with the higher number as I believe that was the peak.

Another reason whites won't pay reparations is that we are being uniquely and selectively blamed for slavery, despite (as has been pointed out) white nations being the first to ban slavery and enforce a world wide ban.

Go talk with the Arabs and African tribes and get them on board first. Not to mention descendants of slave owning blacks in the US, of which I believe there was a higher proportion than whites. Also in the above source.

I am finding that the side of this debate which is most keen to give ivory tower admonishments is the one with the most politically correct narrative.

The fact is that whites hold the moral high ground on slavery and discrimination. While certainly not ideal, white societies have a cleaner record on these issues than any other. I really don't think anyone will seriously dispute that

I really wish you had not stepped in here because all you did was step in shit. Now at least 100 eyeballs are on you as a possible member account that will be banned. Don't let me discourage you completely, so keep on studying (or lurking here on RVF) and you will figure it out.

[Deluge]

(01-12-2015 08:23 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

I never heard of Childish Gambino or Logic, I will have to check them out when I get a chance.

Childish Gambino aka Donald Glover is huge especially amongst white girls, must be his nerd/hipster vibe. I don't think he has any particular political insight though, and his music is kinda meh. I thought he was pretty funny in that show Community though, but his stand-up routines have some pro feminist/SJW jokes.

I actually pulled my first ONS because I knew all the lyrics to this song back in the day.

[infowarrior1]

(01-12-2015 12:16 AM)GeroMeroHero Wrote:  

(01-11-2015 09:20 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

I am no means playing the victim, the same issues Archie pointed out apply in Canada and England.

I really have to step in here. They don't. The excuse given for this is lingering legacy of slavery and jim crow, and yet nothing comparable occurred in those countries.

Whites won't pay reparations because only 1.6% of whites owned slaves. I hate to say it but I guarantee more than that percent of blacks have a criminal record, and yet cry foul when they are stereotyped.
http://americancivilwar.com/authors/blac...owners.htm
^ it says 1.4% of whites here but I am sticking with the higher number as I believe that was the peak.

Another reason whites won't pay reparations is that we are being uniquely and selectively blamed for slavery, despite (as has been pointed out) white nations being the first to ban slavery and enforce a world wide ban.

Go talk with the Arabs and African tribes and get them on board first. Not to mention descendants of slave owning blacks in the US, of which I believe there was a higher proportion than whites. Also in the above source.

I am finding that the side of this debate which is most keen to give ivory tower admonishments is the one with the most politically correct narrative.

The fact is that whites hold the moral high ground on slavery and discrimination. While certainly not ideal, white societies have a cleaner record on these issues than any other. I really don't think anyone will seriously dispute that

Hope you got evidence to back your claim up. If its true then the truth has to be said even if its unpopular. If its false then you have to change your opinion or others may see you as a race-troll and liable for banning.

[rudebwoy]

^ He doesn't have the facts to back it up, trust me on that.

A simple debate about some rapper's comments turns into slavery and why blacks shouldn't get anything for a country they practically built.

I will not comment on this any further!

[tallandblonde]

Regardless of all of this minutia, the solution is education, not the victim card. As long as inner city schools continue to suck, black people will continue to constitute a disproportionate percentage of the lower class and jails.

In the modern day, the biggest impediment to one's progress in the USA is class, not race.

[It_is_my_time]

(01-12-2015 11:07 AM)tallandblonde Wrote:  

Regardless of all of this minutia, the solution is education, not the victim card. As long as inner city schools continue to suck, black people will continue to constitute a disproportionate percentage of the lower class and jails.

In the modern day, the biggest impediment to one's progress in the USA is class, not race.

And the schools will remain crap as long as the out of wedlock birthrate continues to stay an out of control 75% in the African American community.

The source cause is the break down of the family unit. Feminism. Having kids without a dad in the house for discipline. So the kids grow up nearly out of control, don't understand what it takes to make it. The girls look for a bad boy to cling to and think having a kid will keep him around. The boys look to join gangs in an effort to find some male role model in the form of 20 year old gang members.

No matter how much money they throw at inner city schools, nothing will be fixed until dad is put back in the house.

[TheWastelander]

(01-12-2015 11:16 AM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 11:07 AM)tallandblonde Wrote:  

Regardless of all of this minutia, the solution is education, not the victim card. As long as inner city schools continue to suck, black people will continue to constitute a disproportionate percentage of the lower class and jails.

In the modern day, the biggest impediment to one's progress in the USA is class, not race.

And the schools will remain crap as long as the out of wedlock birthrate continues to stay an out of control 75% in the African American community.

The source cause is the break down of the family unit. Feminism. Having kids without a dad in the house for discipline. So the kids grow up nearly out of control, don't understand what it takes to make it. The girls look for a bad boy to cling to and think having a kid will keep him around. The boys look to join gangs in an effort to find some male role model in the form of 20 year old gang members.

No matter how much money they throw at inner city schools, nothing will be fixed until dad is put back in the house.

http://madworldnews.com/son-wants-join-gang/

They need more dads like this guy.

[JoyStick]

deleted.

[JoyStick]

(01-12-2015 08:23 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 01:15 AM)Joga Bonito Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 01:01 AM)Avon Barksdale Wrote:  

(01-10-2015 06:39 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Kendrick and J Cole are the two smartest young rappers in the game right now. I was not surprised to hear that he said this. You can tell that he thinks outside the box and like J Cole he is a heavy thinker.

Lil boosie comments were a big surprise. He was spot on too. He was one of the last rappers on earth I would expect to say what he did.

J cole, Kendrick Lemar, Childish Gambino, and Logic smartest dudes in the rap game

Jay Electronica. Mos Def. Black Thought. Nas. Common.

Those guys are the Old Guard. You must throw Nas in there as well. Pharoahe Monch probably as well with De La Soul and Slick Rick.

MF Doom, Ras Kass, and Cannabis could also get an honorable mention as well. I bet I am missing another guy, but it is too early to think rap right now.

I never heard of Childish Gambino or Logic, I will have to check them out when I get a chance. Kirko Bangz can be pretty interesting with his witty lines regarding social interactions with people, but he isn't super deep though. Deep for a Southern rapper though.

Childish Gambino is overrated. His fame comes from acting and not his rapping skills. Childish Gambino thinks he's smart, but he just sounds like a SJW hipster to me. He's popular among the beta hipsters crowd.

Logic is talented.

Kirko is cool, but if you want to listen to a deep southern rapper, I recommend Big Krit.

Boosie was in solitary confinement for 18 months while he was locked up. He spent a lot of that time reading and has been drug free since he been out. I'm glad he made the most out of going to prison and is back. Boosie is great for hip hop.

[Krusyos]

When was the last time a NAACP office was bombed? You're a quality poster here but this victim shit is getting long in the tooth.
[/quote]

Kingsley, WIA has a point. Look up Greenwood, Oklahoma aka Black Wall Street.

To expound on what he's was saying most White on Black discrimination in the US is nothing more than a majority which wields power exerting it over a relatively weaker minority. This isn't right or wrong, it just simply is.

Example: Armed Black Panther held a rally promoting self-defense on 4/29/67 to protest a shooting of an unarmed Black man. California Governor passed a bill banning open carry within the next month...I don't think that's a coincidence.

Uighurs get shitted on by the CCP, White farmers had their land confiscated by Mugabe in the '90's in Zimbabwe, etcetera.

If I could wave a wand and stop Black from wearing saggy pants, selling drugs, and using slang...guess what? The unemployment rate will stay relatively the same. Why?

The people levying those criticisms use those observations to rationalize their pre-existing dislike of Blacks

The belief/feeling always comes first and then people look for real-world evidence to back-up their belief. If I call a girl who's into a fucking cunt with a smile she'll rationalize it as funny. I can say the same with the same frame to girl who dislikes me and that backs-up her belief I'm an asshole.

It's not being a victim. It's reality. I personally like it: It's makes me work harder, dress better, be more aware than those from the majority group.
[/quote]

Sorry, but this is utter bollocks. The proof of this is middle class black people. I grew up around middle-class people of all races and there was absolutely 0 prejudice towards blacks who acted like respectable and responsible adults. My parents entrusted me into the care of middle class black people when I was a little kid for sleep-overs and play dates without a second thought, just as if they were white people. I'm sure several of my fellow RVF'ers can verify based on their own experiences.

We middle-class white people have a saying that we teach our kids in the safety of our own homes: there are respectable, normal, great black people and then there are niggers. The niggers have the opportunity to be normal people, but they choose to wallow in their own self-imposed poverty and crime. Similarly, you have respectable white people, and then you have white trash.

White America would have absolutely no problem accepting black people if they would shape up. Of course, there will always be a few racists and white supremacists, but that's to be expected. The damage that the KKK is doing to the black community is minuscule compared to the damage the black community is reeking on itself.

[speakeasy]

(01-12-2015 11:07 AM)tallandblonde Wrote:  

Regardless of all of this minutia, the solution is education, not the victim card. As long as inner city schools continue to suck, black people will continue to constitute a disproportionate percentage of the lower class and jails.

This is a commonly held sentiment. But it's not true. Anyone that feels this way I suggestion you look up the Kansas City school experiment.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html

In a nutshell, the KC school district poured billions into into a state of the art school district. They spent more per pupil than any other district in the nation. It was to be a shining example of what would happen when schools were fully funded. The experiment flopped and there was nothing to show for it.

Quote:

In the modern day, the biggest impediment to one's progress in the USA is class, not race.

"Class" is merely a proxy for a stable, 2 parent household with a high level of parental investment in children.

[Goldin Boy]

Quote:

Sorry, but this is utter bollocks.

^^^^Translation:

Quote:

"You're opinion is nonsense! Now let me enlighten you as to how you should think and feel with MY second-hand observations!"

That's a like a kid who plays SOCOM afterschool trying to school an ex-Navy Seal on military tactics. You're conflating your personal experience as the general experience of about 13 million people, Krus.

Quote:

The proof of this is middle class black people. I grew up around middle-class people of all races and there was absolutely 0 prejudice towards blacks who acted like respectable and responsible adults. My parents entrusted me into the care of middle class black people when I was a little kid for sleep-overs and play dates without a second thought, just as if they were white people. I'm sure several of my fellow RVF'ers can verify based on their own experiences.

Find and read the study: "The Mark of the Criminal Record", your example isn't always true.

My prior post wasn't about blame Whitey or about the plight of agency-less Black victims.

The point was the majority group in any country, wants to maintain it's hold on the power in said country. Said majority doesn't have to (and is not every country) White. The strong do what they want, the weak do what they must. I keep seeing this patter of powerful majority imposing their will on weak minority groups.

You're conflating your particular, personal, (again) second-hand experience as the general for Black people, all 13 million of them.

Quote:

We middle-class white people have a saying that we teach our kids in the safety of our own homes: there are respectable, normal, great black people and then there are niggers. The niggers have the opportunity to be normal people, but they choose to wallow in their own self-imposed poverty and crime. Similarly, you have respectable white people, and then you have white trash.

This is irrelvant because it's not related to my initial post.

Can you least make an attempt at rational debate and pick apart the merit of my examples? I'd love to debate this with you but you're blinded by emotion and just hamster in every post you direct at me.

Get some non-personal examples and then we can talk.

Oh and I wrote a Cliffnotes of your response below:

[Kingsley Davis]

(01-12-2015 08:38 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 08:23 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

I never heard of Childish Gambino or Logic, I will have to check them out when I get a chance.

Childish Gambino aka Donald Glover is huge especially amongst white girls, must be his nerd/hipster vibe. I don't think he has any particular political insight though, and his music is kinda meh. I thought he was pretty funny in that show Community though, but his stand-up routines have some pro feminist/SJW jokes.

I actually pulled my first ONS because I knew all the lyrics to this song back in the day.

He's Danny Glover's son.

[Moma]

(01-12-2015 09:53 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  

He's Danny Glover's son.

Lethal Weapon Danny? Oh shyt!!! How time flies!!

[TheSlayer]

(01-12-2015 09:53 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  

He's Danny Glover's son.

Pretty sure he's not.

[Deluge]

(01-12-2015 10:22 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 09:53 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  

He's Danny Glover's son.

Pretty sure he's not.

According to Wikipedia his dad is Donald Glover Snr, a retired postal worker.