[Agreddor]

Been lifting for 3 years. Started out at 55kg, I am now 83kg.

I started lifting because a girl I had oneitis for made a comment about me being skinny.

Made the initial noob gains and got up to 60kg in 2011.

My weight pretty much stayed the same and I was relatively lean. I.e you couldn't tell I had muscle unless I was shirtless.

I also made the mistake of neglecting my legs and shoulders.

2012. This huge guy was squatting 7 plates at my gym and I told myself that I wanted to be like him one day; I talked to him and he told me he was a powerlifter/ strongman.

I began the shift from bodybuilding style workouts to strength training.

2013: weight was holding out at 70 kg. Experimented with olympic weightlifting under my friends supervision. Didn't like it.

2014: bulked to 83kg, preparing fr powerlifting meet in 2015.

Major problems:-

Hypermobility, my ligaments move beyond the usual range of motion (my wrist can turn 180 degs with ease) problematic with movements like overhead press and bench press

Muscle imbalanece, too much muscle mass on the chest, relatively small back. Has led to shoulder impingement

Mobility problems, related to muscular imbalances that I have. Weak rotator cuff &c.

What I learnt:-

Always plan your workouts
Listen to your body, if you're tired take a break from the gym.
Although I don't train lilke a bodybuilder, I eat like one.
Keto works, but you must be able to have the willpower to ignore your hunger. Same with fasted training.
Always use full range of motion and proper form.
Stretch.
Foam roll.
Supplement with the right supplements.
Don't try to pb every training session, if you don't fuck up your cns you will fuck something up.

Eating can be a pain in the ass, especially if you have high metabolism. The biggest pain in the ass is when you go out with friends or family or on a date and you have to pick soomething that fits your macros.

[roberto]

(12-26-2014 12:33 AM)Agreddor Wrote:  

Been lifting for 3 years. Started out at 55kg, I am now 83kg.

I started lifting because a girl I had oneitis for made a comment about me being skinny.

Made the initial noob gains and got up to 60kg in 2011.

My weight pretty much stayed the same and I was relatively lean. I.e you couldn't tell I had muscle unless I was shirtless.

I also made the mistake of neglecting my legs and shoulders.

2012. This huge guy was squatting 7 plates at my gym and I told myself that I wanted to be like him one day; I talked to him and he told me he was a powerlifter/ strongman.

I began the shift from bodybuilding style workouts to strength training.

2013: weight was holding out at 70 kg. Experimented with olympic weightlifting under my friends supervision. Didn't like it.

2014: bulked to 83kg, preparing fr powerlifting meet in 2015.

Major problems:-

Hypermobility, my ligaments move beyond the usual range of motion (my wrist can turn 180 degs with ease) problematic with movements like overhead press and bench press

Muscle imbalanece, too much muscle mass on the chest, relatively small back. Has led to shoulder impingement

Mobility problems, related to muscular imbalances that I have. Weak rotator cuff &c.

What I learnt:-

Always plan your workouts
Listen to your body, if you're tired take a break from the gym.
Although I don't train lilke a bodybuilder, I eat like one.
Keto works, but you must be able to have the willpower to ignore your hunger. Same with fasted training.
Always use full range of motion and proper form.
Stretch.
Foam roll.
Supplement with the right supplements.
Don't try to pb every training session, if you don't fuck up your cns you will fuck something up.

Eating can be a pain in the ass, especially if you have high metabolism. The biggest pain in the ass is when you go out with friends or family or on a date and you have to pick soomething that fits your macros.

Sorry to drag this further off thread (OP said 10 years plus) but I have a buddy's lil brother who just started lifting with us. He's 21, about 5'7 and 50kg. Still a virgin but that's a sideline project. Slowly slowly catchee monkey.

Anyhow, I have this kid squatting 115% BW (5x5) after just four weeks. Perfect form. I see potential here, but his diet is going to severely limit him. He lives on sugar and cereals.

I'm gonna show him this post, can you tell me what foods you found best to gain mass? And how tall are you?

[Agreddor]

180 cm.

Complex carbohydrates: brown rice, oatmeal, sweet potatoes. My metabolism is sky high so these keep me full longer.

I did some pretty extreme things to pack on muscle. Downed a gallon of milk a day and blew up the toilet. Then I tried making my own protein shakes by throwing beef in the blender.

If he's 50kg, you'll have to get him used to force feeding. I'm talking 5-9 meals a day.

[Downtown]

ive got many years in the gym but not yet ten, maybe 7?

best advice i can give is:

1) dont get injured
2) be happy with 1% gain each time.
3) its a long term game, not a sprint
4) find patience

[Aliblahba]

I've been in and out of the gym for 20 years, and although I do like the results, I've had far more injuries there than doing real world strength. I just spent two weeks fighting with high pressure hose, constantly swinging a 10 lb hammer, and tearing apart high pressure fittings with a 36" pipe wrench and a 4' cheater bar. So yeah, I may have gotten a little more swole in the gym, but everything I did at work directly relates to fighting. I've been in plenty of scuffles over the years and have never felt like time in the gym helped me through, except for maybe the strenght on a direct punch.

Gym routines are repetitive, real world strengh isn't and keeps your muscles shocked.

[samsamsam]

(12-26-2014 12:33 AM)Agreddor Wrote:  

Been lifting for 3 years. Started out at 55kg, I am now 83kg.

I started lifting because a girl I had oneitis for made a comment about me being skinny.

Made the initial noob gains and got up to 60kg in 2011.

My weight pretty much stayed the same and I was relatively lean. I.e you couldn't tell I had muscle unless I was shirtless.

I also made the mistake of neglecting my legs and shoulders.

2012. This huge guy was squatting 7 plates at my gym and I told myself that I wanted to be like him one day; I talked to him and he told me he was a powerlifter/ strongman.

I began the shift from bodybuilding style workouts to strength training.

2013: weight was holding out at 70 kg. Experimented with olympic weightlifting under my friends supervision. Didn't like it.

2014: bulked to 83kg, preparing fr powerlifting meet in 2015.

Major problems:-

Hypermobility, my ligaments move beyond the usual range of motion (my wrist can turn 180 degs with ease) problematic with movements like overhead press and bench press

Muscle imbalanece, too much muscle mass on the chest, relatively small back. Has led to shoulder impingement

Mobility problems, related to muscular imbalances that I have. Weak rotator cuff &c.

What I learnt:-

Always plan your workouts
Listen to your body, if you're tired take a break from the gym.
Although I don't train lilke a bodybuilder, I eat like one.
Keto works, but you must be able to have the willpower to ignore your hunger. Same with fasted training.
Always use full range of motion and proper form.
Stretch.
Foam roll.
Supplement with the right supplements.
Don't try to pb every training session, if you don't fuck up your cns you will fuck something up.

Eating can be a pain in the ass, especially if you have high metabolism. The biggest pain in the ass is when you go out with friends or family or on a date and you have to pick soomething that fits your macros.

How did you address your muscle imbalances? I am guessing working the weaker muscles more. But was there a thought out program to balance them? Thanks.

[Ringo]

To the vets (specially guys who are 35 and older):

Do you still go through bulking and cutting cycles or do you try to maintain the same BF% year-round?

How has your metabolism changed?

[Agreddor]

(12-30-2014 12:43 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(12-26-2014 12:33 AM)Agreddor Wrote:  

Been lifting for 3 years. Started out at 55kg, I am now 83kg.

I started lifting because a girl I had oneitis for made a comment about me being skinny.

Made the initial noob gains and got up to 60kg in 2011.

My weight pretty much stayed the same and I was relatively lean. I.e you couldn't tell I had muscle unless I was shirtless.

I also made the mistake of neglecting my legs and shoulders.

2012. This huge guy was squatting 7 plates at my gym and I told myself that I wanted to be like him one day; I talked to him and he told me he was a powerlifter/ strongman.

I began the shift from bodybuilding style workouts to strength training.

2013: weight was holding out at 70 kg. Experimented with olympic weightlifting under my friends supervision. Didn't like it.

2014: bulked to 83kg, preparing fr powerlifting meet in 2015.

Major problems:-

Hypermobility, my ligaments move beyond the usual range of motion (my wrist can turn 180 degs with ease) problematic with movements like overhead press and bench press

Muscle imbalanece, too much muscle mass on the chest, relatively small back. Has led to shoulder impingement

Mobility problems, related to muscular imbalances that I have. Weak rotator cuff &c.

What I learnt:-

Always plan your workouts
Listen to your body, if you're tired take a break from the gym.
Although I don't train lilke a bodybuilder, I eat like one.
Keto works, but you must be able to have the willpower to ignore your hunger. Same with fasted training.
Always use full range of motion and proper form.
Stretch.
Foam roll.
Supplement with the right supplements.
Don't try to pb every training session, if you don't fuck up your cns you will fuck something up.

Eating can be a pain in the ass, especially if you have high metabolism. The biggest pain in the ass is when you go out with friends or family or on a date and you have to pick soomething that fits your macros.

How did you address your muscle imbalances? I am guessing working the weaker muscles more. But was there a thought out program to balance them? Thanks.

I have overdevelped muscles hence the muscular imbalances.

Basically I didn't work my back enough and I bench press a lot, as a result my posture isn't very good. On top of that, I have had a nagging rotator cuff injury.

I go for physiotheraphy twice a week. Deep tissue massge around the rotator cuff/ anterior deltoids. On top of that I have to do a lot of mobility work and correvtive stretching. And of course, train the weaker muscles more.

The corrective stretching is vital. When I train my back, I feel my shoulders taking over, so I can't go very heavy for my back exercises.

[rudebwoy]

(12-30-2014 09:00 PM)Ringo Wrote:  

To the vets (specially guys who are 35 and older):

Do you still go through bulking and cutting cycles or do you try to maintain the same BF% year-round?

How has your metabolism changed?

I am not a bodybuilder, so no point in bulking and cutting. A friend who is staying with me this week, commented on how little I eat but yet I still look big.

I play soccer with young guys.
My workouts are high intensity.
Once you reach a certain age, Cardio is very important in terms of pushing your body and increasing your heart rate.

My new routine is 40 pull-ups/push-ups non stop, walk around the gym and do it again. Then I do another set after that.
100 sit-ups - 5 sets of 20 with different variations.
20 minutes Stairmaster.
8 sets of 20 reps calf raises.
Give it a go!

[eradicator]

I am 38. I don't lift heavy, I haven't lifted heavy since my early 20s. I see no need. I lift light and go for endurance. I also recommend some sort of stretching after you lift, whether it is foam rolling or yoga or pilates. your muscles will thank you for it, try different things and see what is right for you.

and yeah, just lifting really isn't enough, your body needs some cardio: treadmill, bicycle, running, playing sports like basketball, whatever.

[Kieran]

About 15 1/2 years for me and not much to add to what has already been said.

One thing is that machines can be just as valuable as free-weights. I especially like machines for back training (I like both the cable row and the hammer strength seated row, as well as those t-bar row machines which allow a far better range than the traditional version), as they allow you to use appreciable loading without having to stress the lower back too much (according to Poliquin, your lower back having to fire in the bent barbell row actually inhibits your ability to fire the muscles of the upper back as there's so much demand on the CNS).

Another thing I'd add with regards to cardio is that I really like long duration low intensity steady state, as it really does work for both cardio-vascular benefits as well as weight management, without putting a lot of stress on recovery abilities. For those that hate cardio, I'd recommend taking long walks as they still have some benefits CV wise, and also are great for weight management, as well as being great for the mind (I always find I'm able to clear my mind and that good ideas come to me while walking).

[MikeS]

Been lifting 2-5 times per week most of the time since I was 15 - 38 now - with longer breaks probably totaling up to around five years. Never juiced - no supplements stronger than creatine.
I have always loved lifting, change up my program once in a while - and often also just does what feels natural on a given day, if I have more or less energy than usual for instance. Notable strength and size gains stopped for me many years ago though, in fact I've never been stronger than I was in my late teens. Lifting feels as good as ever, but it doesn't seem like I'm ever going to push beyond a merely athletic body. Which I'm perfectly fine with at this age.

The main thing that has changed as I've gotten older are more minor injuries to typically wrists, elbows and shoulders, and thus a greater need for proper warmup. And lately also cutting out some barbell exercises - shoulders primarily - in favor of dumbbell exercises that allow some wrist rotation.

[apoclater]

Really interesting reading this thread as a younger guy who's seen a couple different "movements" in lifting.

I started with a standard bodybuilding split along with low-intensity cardio for a few years, eating complex carbs and loading up on protein. Basically the standard that you see in a Men's Health magazine.

Then I followed the Rippetoe movement which moved away from isolation exercises and more to compound lifts. I went paleo/primal and ate a lot more saturated fat and cut out the grains and sugars. My cardio was primarily just walking a lot more and sprinting when I felt like it - no 60 minute sessions of bs on a treadmill.

Now I'm somewhere in the middle. I stuck with compound movements as my "base" - squats, deadlifts, bench, etc. But I'm only starting to see the results I want now that I'm doing certain isolation exercises. I still don't buy into the idea that I should do 60 minutes of jogging a day, but I don't have a car in the city so I end up walking 5-10 miles per day.

I'm not saying anyone's wrong. It's clear we still don't understand the aboslute most effective ways to gain muscle. It's just funny to watch the shifts and trends and how they affect what guys are doing.

[MikeS]

I think genetics play a very big part in how much muscle mass you can gain naturally. I never considered myself a "hard gainer", it's always just felt like I hit my modest, athletic limits very quickly and then have essentially been doing maintenance (thankfully I love lifting with or without noticeable gains) and minor backsliding and recovery for the better part of two decades.
Meanwhile by brother-in-law, who works an office job and picks up a dumbbell at home once in a blue moon, almost looks like he's just a body fat reduction away from a local amateur bodybuilding contest (and I suspect he's probably stronger than me as well).

[JacksonRev]

I'm 32, been lifting on and off since I was 11. Here are some things I've learned.

(12-31-2014 04:47 AM)Agreddor Wrote:  

Basically I didn't work my back enough and I bench press a lot, as a result my posture isn't very good. On top of that, I have had a nagging rotator cuff injury.

Yeah, it's a ball and socket joint and only working one side pulls it out the socket. I dislocated my should from too much presses and not enough pulls boxing at 16. Then I tore all three muscles in the same shoulder in a Muay Thai match at 19. And ripped those screws and staples out during sex at 22. I had shoulder pain from any presses, including pushups (which sucks because I do them every day for work) until 28.

The two main exercises that made the pain go away were doing cardio on the rowing machine, and rope sled pulls, focusing on using one arm at a time from a stable standing base.

As far as lifting in general, the best advice I can give is that you train in three stages. First, you train the movement. Second, you train the muscle. And only third, do you train the weight. Because, if you don't have the movement down, it doesn't matter what muscles you have or what weight you can move, it's not sustainable because you'll eventually get injured.

You train the muscle, because many people focus on what weight they're moving instead of what their muscles are doing. Most of us lift to get bigger, stronger muscles, so this needs to be the focus. Because there are many ways to move weight, that primarily put pressure on joints and other weak spots, so that less muscle is used, and more weight is lifted. Which then leads to injury, squats being one of the biggest culprits. Yeah, they only measure to parallel for meets, but what other lift do you only do half your range of motion and call it a day?

Another thing, since I've read a lot of people complaining about hurting their backs deadlifting, and seen it quite a few times in real life, you don't deadlift with your back. In fact, you really never lift anything with your back, it's a stabilizer muscle, like your abs. They're mainly there to keep the rest of your body together, when your real levers like your hips, knees, shoulders, etc. move your body around.

Richard "The Ant" Hawthorne illustrates this point here:

[Nascimento]

Quote:

First, you train the movement. Second, you train the muscle. And only third, do you train the weight

^^

Yes I strongly agree. Too many guys do not understand this or choose to ignore it.

They think weight is more important than form and technique. Rather, focus on challenging yourself with the weights, once you have the technique down, especially from a kinesthetic perspective. That is, you have the 'feeling' that you are doing the movement correctly, as you feel your muscles contracting as they should, your joints moving appropriately, appropriate forces etc.

I remember when I first started lifting weights in the high school gym. Damn were most of us (including me, although not as much) guilty of focusing on weights more than anything else. I remember the first time I saw someone bench press 300, a football player that weighed around 220. I remember the momentum and the weight throwing, as everyone marvelled at his success.

Conversely, I also remember a buddy of mine when he attempted his max. He lifted 225, for one rep, but it was the most impressive lift I've ever seen. Why? Because there was 0% momentum, he controlled the weight on his way down, must have taken 3 seconds on the eccentric (lowering) portion of the bench press. As the weight touched his shirt, he held it there for a full second (no bounce) and pressed it up cleanly and in control (must have taken 4 seconds), truly his max.

The spotter not even touch the bar. What made this most impressive, was that at the time he weighed 140 lbs. He's 5'6 and a genetic specimen in this regard.

[TravelerKai]

Been lifting weights seriously since 2002 and I have stopped or taken a hiatus the past 2 years. As you guys know, I have an extensive martial arts background and did bodybuilding in between for the looks when I stopped fighting and was only coaching and training other fighters.

The biggest struggles have been dealing with excess fat building up on my midsection. I also struggle with maintaining certain test levels which made cutting weight even harder. Combine that with lifestyle challenges, like career and new family, it can be very frustrating.

With my knee and back problems from Judo and Muay Thai, etc. I cannot run for miles like everyone else. In order to improve my cardio and keep the weight down I ride a mountain bike on wooded trails for around 20 miles or so on weekends. So far that helps alot. Managing my test levels and cortisol levels got easier with Chinese herbs which cut down my inflammation etc. Basically that allowed me to take longer breaks away from weight lifting for maintenance.

In the past, it's always been bulk up/reach strength goal or gains, break for a week to heal, cut weight, rinse and repeat. Sometimes I would have to break the cycle to deal with travel or inflammation in my body or other issue. When I was still fighting I only lifted for strength and conditioning because I fought at 150. I usually walked around at 170-180. After that, I went bigger and would walk around at 185-205 with much larger muscle, primarily for looks and it helped me deal with wrestling and rolling with my larger students and fighters. It's kinda cool when you can move your own furniture around in your house without needing other people's help. Other stuff as well.

Larger muscled frame present all kinds of extra issues. I have had bouts with plantar fasciitis, various muscle pain, inflammation, shittier cardio, and muscle spasms.

Once my kid gets to about 6 months old or so, I plan on starting up a new weightlifting cycle. I am working on my goals and plans right now and looking into what I want to do for my diet requirements, etc. We shall see.

[Brotein]

(12-19-2014 08:40 AM)Nascimento Wrote:  

I'm sure there are more than a few guys that have >10 years experience (or somewhere close) with weight/resistance training. Doesn't have to be a consistent 10 years, more in general, I doubt even professionals are that consistent.

I'd love to hear your thoughts and experiences. I've done more than a few so far but I feel I'm only recently starting to hit stride and efficiency. I wouldn't be surprised if others are on the same page.

Some questions:

1) How does training change as you become more experienced? Subjectively, in your experience. Age could play a role, but more specifically the factor of training for so many years.

2) Did you find you could/can still make muscle gains, despite potential decreasing with time, by always working to improve your workouts and nutrition?

There is not a better place on the web to my knowledge where I can find the best answers to these questions and a proper discussion of this topic. A simple search has many sites telling you you can add 30 pounds of muscle a year which is obviously false. Also many claims for natural trainers by people who are on steroids (nothing against it, but to claim you can achieve the result that is only possible with it without it is stupid). But how much can you realistically expect to add overtime, given experience? Also considering that your workout efficiency improves as you learn what works and what doesn't. What else have you noticed that improves/changes/needs attention overtime?

It would be great to hear some different perspectives on this.

I have been lifting for 14 years. In the last few years i am making more muscle gains than before and getting into crazy good shape. Perhaps because I am 29 and hitting my physical peak.

A lot of people think I am taking steroids but I am natural.

I think it comes down to how you train and frequency.


When you weightlift 4 or greater times per week there is a noticeable difference in how you look.

[ElJefe]

Training on/off 14 years.

My main advice is to have a clear vision of what you want. When the vision is in place, you can plan from there. I kept on vacillating between different goals (run a marathon vs bench 300). I could've benched 300 by 18 if I had known what I was doing.

In addition, training is basically a logistical exercise for me. Setting aside time for that activity plus adequate nutrition doesn't come naturally to me at all - I abhor structure. So while other people might find that part easier, for me it takes an inordinate amount of time to get that part dealt with, and I still can't.

And dear God please set aside time to ensure you have adequate mobility/flexibility. I could've saved soooooo much time if I had dealt with that first.

FYI I bench 360, squat 400 and deadlift 440. Weigh about 210lbs at 5'10'' - trying to get down to about 185-190. When I'm down there I'm gonna go for 400/500/600 next winter with a super-slow snail bulk. My cardio is non-existent and I'd have a heart attack if I ran up the stairs (something else I want to change the coming months).

Have a minor rotator cuff injury now btw

[Foolsgo1d]

I didn't need 10 years to stop doing;

- Heavy front squats
- Deadlifts
- Weighted dips
- Focusing on bench press

The first two were risky for my back and I believe scar tissue built up resulting in an ache everytime I knelt down or stayed in a position where my back was hunched slightly.

As much as I liked them I prefer my back to be healthy than injured. Back squats I have backed off on and just do volume and a few strength sets here and there.

At 10 years you do not want to be one of those hobbling old guys who feel aches and pains for hours/days afterwards.

[Ringo]

(01-12-2015 07:36 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

I didn't need 10 years to stop doing;
- Weighted dips

Why did you stop doing those? What about bodyweight dips?

[KC4]

I have been hitting the gym for 2 years now went from 60 kilos to 72 at the current state being 170 cm. I couldn't set my mind up when i was grappling and what weight i wanted be at so i i just bulked to 75 but i recently had acl surgery lost 5 kilos and now I struggle regaining those last few kilos because i have no clue about diet.

[blackerthanblack]

(01-13-2015 08:29 AM)Ringo Wrote:  

(01-12-2015 07:36 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

I didn't need 10 years to stop doing;
- Weighted dips

Why did you stop doing those? What about bodyweight dips?

Probably shoulder injuries.

My flat bench barbell days are over now in my mid 30's. I cannot go above 225# without irritating my left shoulder. I've been a on and off lifter for the past 15 years, the last year really consistent. Muscle memory has been awesome. I always carried decent mass and even with almost 5 years out of the gym I am as big as was five years ago

It is amazing at the difference in what my body tells me about a lift compared to ten years ago. I still do weighted dips but no more than 90# added.

[Stun]

I have been going on 12 years of weightlifting. Started around weighing 170lbs and now am 200. In 2002 I could only lift 115lbs on bench, can now do reps at 225, and 245.

The most absolutely crucial things after age 35 are, besides consistency, diet, and form:

-Avoid sugar whenever possible
-Drink enough water - at my body weight I drink a gallon of water/day, even when not thirsty
-Get enough sleep
-Avoid alcohol whenever possible

[Saweeep]

I think the most crucial thing for older guys is to always listen to your body.

Even smaller injuries take much, much longer to heal than when you're 21 even if you don't realise it.

I'm 33 and niggles form weights, rugby or boxing take seemingly forever to sort themselves out...it's wise to do everything possible to avoid them in the first place.