[Independent1]

Just wondering what your guys thoughts are on having a girlfriend, or being married, with gaming on other girls at the same time.

Right now I am single, and plan to be until I really find the right girl (not actively searching). Marriage doesn't even cross my mind in seriousness right now, and I hope it stays like that for many more years.

Do you guys have Gfs / wives and actively game other girls?

What is your opinion on marriage (now and in the future) in general?

[Latan]

After much reflexion, I don't think there's one girl on this planet who would fit me perfectly.
Mariage with someone who's not a real match is impossible to imagine for me.

About "cheating", it's a matter of point of view: is nailing multiple women who don't really fit you "cheating"?
My answer is "no", even if I respect other points of view.

[HighSpeed_LowDrag]

Don't get married unless you want kids.

Don't get into a relationship unless you want to get married.

Cheating in a relationship (by which I mean a fully-defined, "exclusive" one) isn't worth the mental effort and care taken to create the deception - and if you feel compelled to cheat on your partner, it's a good sign that getting into it was a mistake in the first place.

My $0.02.

HSLD

[jay_penetratem]

Nothing wrong with a discreet side chick, or ONS on the side. Just remember, you absolutely cannot get caught. Especially with kids involved.

[Strongsloth]

Don't get married unless there is some practical advantage to you which offsets the disadvantages. If there is not then just take what you need without offering marriage.

As for cheating within marriage... never do it on the wedding night. After that it's open season.

[Rawmeo]

As a professional cheater, there are many ways to cheat witout getting caught, many ways to monitor if you'Re about to get busted, etc. but if you start to cheat on a girl, it's usually a sign that says the end is near.

[Dalaran1991]

(12-03-2014 04:03 AM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  

Don't get married unless you want kids.

Don't get into a relationship unless you want to get married.

Cheating in a relationship (by which I mean a fully-defined, "exclusive" one) isn't worth the mental effort and care taken to create the deception - and if you feel compelled to cheat on your partner, it's a good sign that getting into it was a mistake in the first place.

My $0.02.

HSLD

Things arent that black and white.

Many players will be in a LTR and banging chicks on the side if that arrangement is convenient to them. Me included.

I dont dig the "if you are cheating on her then you should break up with her" argument. Say your main favorite food is pasta, but you cant eat pasta every fucking day, you will grow sick of it. So you go grab a hamburger now and then. Does that mean you ditch pasta for life? No. You still eat pasta 5 times a week with a burger/pizza now and then.

Having a stable LTR can do a lot of good considering we are not full time PUAs. There are times when you work a lot and are stressed and having a loving girlfriend can be soothing. She also provides a stable sex retreat when you need sex, though this could be good and bad depending on the player in question.

Also sometimes the girl is good enough, or really hasn't done anything to merit your discontent, I dont see the need to leave her, especially since you know it will devastate her. No need to leave unnecessary destruction in your path.

We as redpill men are not meant for monogamy, but society is still structured around it so there s incentive to work out an arrangement that works for you. DONT EVER fucking get married though.

I also thought that cheating and running a harem causes headache, but when you are blue pill trying to take redpill every fucking thing is a headache and causes PTSD . This is just another skill in your repertoire that you may or may not find useful. It teaches you discretion, emotional control and better introspection.

All this is said assuming you find a girl worthy of LTR (not marriage). I think the old saying should now be "There are women you have fun with, and there are women you get into LTR with"

EDIT: I have a main girl that checks every box I need, and I game girls on the side. Yeah it causes drama and guilt sometimes, but you deal with it.

[HighSpeed_LowDrag]

(12-03-2014 05:04 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Things arent that black and white.

Many players will be in a LTR and banging chicks on the side if that arrangement is convenient to them. Me included.

I dont dig the "if you are cheating on her then you should break up with her" argument. Say your main favorite food is pasta, but you cant eat pasta every fucking day, you will grow sick of it. So you go grab a hamburger now and then. Does that mean you ditch pasta for life? No. You still eat pasta 5 times a week with a burger/pizza now and then.

Having a stable LTR can do a lot of good considering we are not full time PUAs. There are times when you work a lot and are stressed and having a loving girlfriend can be soothing. She also provides a stable sex retreat when you need sex, though this could be good and bad depending on the player in question.

Also sometimes the girl is good enough, or really hasn't done anything to merit your discontent, I dont see the need to leave her, especially since you know it will devastate her. No need to leave unnecessary destruction in your path.

We as redpill men are not meant for monogamy, but society is still structured around it so there s incentive to work out an arrangement that works for you. DONT EVER fucking get married though.

I also thought that cheating and running a harem causes headache, but when you are blue pill trying to take redpill every fucking thing is a headache and causes PTSD . This is just another skill in your repertoire that you may or may not find useful. It teaches you discretion, emotional control and better introspection.

All this is said assuming you find a girl worthy of LTR (not marriage)

EDIT: I have a main girl that checks every box I need, and I game girls on the side. Yeah it causes drama and guilt sometimes, but you deal with it.

You have a fair point. I think I'm just the type that would prefer the mini-relationship deal in cases like that - where you see each other and are seen socially with each other, but it's not at the point where there's an agreed exclusivity about it.

I can respect your opinion and your view - but I feel that once a person gives their word to something, they should commit to follow it. It's something that's pounded into us repeatedly in officer training: that one should always say what they mean and mean what they say.

HSLD

[Dalaran1991]

(12-03-2014 05:28 AM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  

You have a fair point. I think I'm just the type that would prefer the mini-relationship deal in cases like that - where you see each other and are seen socially with each other, but it's not at the point where there's an agreed exclusivity about it.

I can respect your opinion and your view - but I feel that once a person gives their word to something, they should commit to follow it. It's something that's pounded into us repeatedly in officer training: that one should always say what they mean and mean what they say.

HSLD

Oh we misunderstood then. For me a LTR is like your mini-LTR It just means you spend considerable amount of time with your main girl and she s your default go to girl in your free time.

Under no circumstance I believe a man should give his words of exclusivity to a girl. Most LTR just begin with a few fucks and then they start "going out" and the girl expect you to commit. You can act like you commit but you shouldnt give a verbal accord. If she pushes it and I really want to keep her, I will lie if I have to.

I respect your sense of honor and integrity, I train in martial arts myself. But Ive long realized that those concepts are alien and anathema to women while they are binding to us. How many times girls tell you lies "I love you forever etc"? Its not even their fault because they are emotional creature and holding them to their word is futile. I know it sucks that lying and manipulation are becoming part of modern day game but if you want to thrive in the modern sexual market place you have to play by the rules, and the rules are currently set by women. Honor is about as dead yet as glorious as the samurai.

That said, if you prefer not lying to women and keep your words once you gave it, respect.

[kaotic]

I disagree.

I have a main girl I've been dating for 10 months now.

I was fucking multiple girls before her, I still fuck on the side constantly along with her, and I'll fuck multiple girls after. (I have an abundance mindset)

My main girl complements my life, we enjoy each others time, and go on trips/shows/dinner together.

She lives 30-45 mins away, I don't game much in my own city so I can bring her around. I game girls and bang girls from other nearby cities that come to my regular bar and bounce to my house.

We hangout 1-2 times a week, I let her text/call/snap me most the time.

As far as hiding it, I don't need to, I don't give a fuck, I'm not paranoid, I don't save any girls numbers, girls try and leave shit at my house but I toss it out. I don't use condoms much. I'd also say 85% percent of the girls I bang on the side are DTF, Plates, or ONS.

Just because I'm fucking girls on the side does NOT mean the end is near for my main relationship, I think it makes my relationship with her stronger.

I think men need to hunt outside their relationships in order to not pedestalize pussy, not treat their main like shit, and to keep a sane mind.

When I hangout with my main I'm not worried about other girls, I'm not worried about her finding out, reason being, I maintain a very strong frame in our relationship.

Besides I'll always throw in joke like
"shit you're almost here ? Better kick this other girl out"
"just got off work headed to my side bitches house"
"oh you know headed to the strip club to see my girl"

None of these cases was I serious but it relaxes any paranoia about getting caught.

I don't think I'd ever get married, just because you're in a LTR does NOT mean it's headed to marriage, I enjoy the moment I'm in with the girl I'm with.

If you decide to be loyal to your girl and not bang on the side, that's rad, and more power to you.

If you decide to cheat, or always fuck on the side, keep on doing it, and don't worry about morals.

Quote:

Right now I am single, and plan to be until I really find the right girl (not actively searching). Marriage doesn't even cross my mind in seriousness right now, and I hope it stays like that for many more years

If marriage doesn't cross your mind they why are you saying the above about the right girl ? This reminds me of scarcity and the search for the one. (Pedastalization)

Quote:

What is your opinion on marriage (now and in the future) in general?

Marriage to me is going down hill - 10 years together is the new 30 years together.

Divorce rape and biased courts towards women, I don't see marriage being a good thing in the future.

I respect the men who stay loyal to their girls and don't bang on the side, that's honorable in my book. But doesn't get you very far when most girls don't return the favor in kind.

[Barron]

The word Cheating is a female construct.

Traditionally, a woman's home was threatened if she had a husband who was sleeping around. In which case she would be shit out of luck if the man decides to leave her for someone else.

Also consider the nature of male vs female sexual strategies:
Women want to find one man to fuck a lot.
Men want to fuck a lot of women once.

This is where the saying, "women have to like you to sleep with you, and men have to like you to sleep with you again" comes from.

So in taking into consideration the term "cheating" in the context of relationships, its really only cheating to women, because their sexual strategy is to lock down one mate for life. However this does not apply to men because our sexual strategy is to accumulate many sexual partners over our lifetime.

Cheating is a selfish word propagated by women and the MSM to keep men in line with the feminine imperative.

[The_e_man]

This may be beyond the scope of this forum, but the short answer is cheating is beneficial for the male and monogamy (with some discrete cheating on the side during fertile periods) is beneficial for the female.
This is a huge over-simplification. During my undergrad studies, I have studied evolutionary ethology with a primary focus on sexual selection.

The true red-pill to swallow is that of biological truths of our nature.

If you are at all interested, please google terms such as: anisogamy, male-male (intrasexual) competition, male-female (intersexual) competition, parental investment costs, sexual selection among primates, concealed ovulation.
You will find this content truly eye-opening, and it serendipitously comes to the same conclusions that those in the manosphere have come up with. It is essentially the "elephant in the room" of the biological community and it has been debated fiercely by feminists as not being applicable to humans.


Now I will try and represent as distilled as possible the gist of why it is beneficial for a man to cheat and beneficial for a woman to "lock-down" a man into monogamy. Again, this is a MASSIVE over-simplification of things.
A man can produces hundreds of millions of sperms in a given day. A woman has a limited number of eggs and reaches menopause once these eggs are depleted. In addition to this, an egg contains considerable more resources to produce than a sperm, hence where the term anisogamy comes from. Now, if we look at parental investment costs, a female has a 9-month gestational period (human pregnancy) while a male does not. This is what we mean when we say females have much higher parental investment costs than males. To make things even more extreme, mammalian species also nurse their young after birth via lactation. Females lactate for their young (breast-feeding for humans) for a period after birth.
All in all, this means females have high "costs" associated with having sex and birthing a child. Males have very low costs - essential the minuscule nutritional value of a teaspoon of semen. And this, my friends, is the basis of our entire gender-wars.
It is in a males best interest to inseminate as many women as possible. Instead of staying for 9 months to help nurse his pregnant lover, he is much better off searching for greener pastures and impregnating further women. Not the mention the very high chance of cuckoldry that can be possible. Paternity is not possible to be certain of (without genetic testing), while maternity is.
It is in the females best interest to be very "choosy" with who she allows to inseminate her as the costs of choosing a genetically inferior mate are very high. This is seen all the time in nature, with the males being very brightly ornamented (male peacocks vs. female peacocks), having massive displays of strength for male-male intrasexual competition (think of the massive horns on rams), or building elaborate nests to persuade females to mate with them (google the nest-building male bower birds, truly amazing stuff). It is also in the females best interest to "trick" unsuspecting males to take care of them and their offspring. This is why the concept of concealed ovulation has evolved in many primates (especially in humans). In addition to this, it is in a females best interest to "lock-down" a male (or males) with help her raise her offspring. The male can be the father or he can be some random beta dud, the female does not give a shit as long as the male can provide resources for her and her offspring. With concealed ovulation, a male has no way of telling if a female is in estrus and is thus capable of getting pregnant with his sperm. This allows for females to "cuckold" multiple males into caring for her offspring.
In one sexual selection class of mine, my professor constantly repeated this: In a species in which anisogamy is present, the high-investment sex will be the "gate-keepers" of sexual intercourse. In this case, females are the gatekeepers of sex.

I will repeat again, this is an extreme oversimplification of things but I cannot condense all of the knowledge of evolutionary sexual selection into one post.
Monogamy is not natural among humans but it actually worked quite well in the old days where there was a structure to things and society was run by men and wasn't poisoned by feminism.
Thanks to feminist ideologies, society has been brought back to the stone ages and monogamy is no longer a viable option for a man, though it is a fantastic option for a female. Especially if she can sleep around with the alphas, get impregnated by them, and then find a nice beta to take care of her and her bastard children.

Alpha fux, beta bux

[dark_g]

If you are married or in a steady relationship, you should make it a rule to ALWAYS tell the side chick that you're in a relationship. Yes, some women will turn and walk away. Some will resist then bang you anyway. Some won't care. Either way, they will respect you for letting them know.
I've been out with my wife and ran into chicks that I've boned and they act like they didn't even know me. If I didn't tell them that I was married, It could have turned into some ugly sceens. If you lie to a woman and she finds out that you are in a committed relationship, thats when the jealousy and revenge shows up. Every guy that has had his windshield smashed or his tires slashed by a side chick, lied to her.
I've had chicks that I was banging tell me, "I know you're married, but I'm developing feelings for you and I can't do this any more". It's all good, on to the next one.

[kaotic]

(12-03-2014 02:31 PM)dark_g Wrote:  

If you are married or in a steady relationship, you should make it a rule to ALWAYS tell the side chick that you're in a relationship. Yes, some women will turn and walk away. Some will resist then bang you anyway. Some won't care. Either way, they will respect you for letting them know.
I've been out with my wife and ran into chicks that I've boned and they act like they didn't even know me. If I didn't tell them that I was married, It could have turned into some ugly sceens. If you lie to a woman and she finds out that you are in a committed relationship, thats when the jealousy and revenge shows up. Every guy that has had his windshield smashed or his tires slashed by a side chick, lied to her.
I've had chicks that I was banging tell me, "I know you're married, but I'm developing feelings for you and I can't do this any more". It's all good, on to the next one.

That's why you don't create an environment where a girl get's even the slightest hint that there would be any feelings, mini ltr, or any kind of relationship whatsoever.

You fuck and that's it, you keep it distant, light and funny. Always letting them know you aren't down for a relationship but down to hangout (dtf). Girls will either drift away or stay around and turn into a plate.

Whatever else you do is your business, you don't need to tell a girl shit about your life. Most girls don't even know what I do for work, how old I am, or where I graduated from.

[TheFinalEpic]

Monogamy was instilled into human societies so that females would have a provider to take care of the child she had with that man (even if it wasn't his kid).

But the process of making an abstract (love) thing into a concrete institution (marriage) is just stupidity. And, you are more attractive to your girlfriend/wife if you can still get with any other woman you desire. They'll try to sell it like its "wrong" to "cheat", but in all reality, you're just more attractive to her.

As the_e_man stated, it is much more detrimental for a male to demonstrate emotional infidelity than sexual infidelity. It is more detrimental for females to demonstrate vice versa.

[PUA_Rachacha]

Marriage is for creating a bedrock foundation on top of which you can raise children. If one of your goals in life is to not bring another being into this world, then stay the fuck away from marriage, because the downsides outweigh the upsides for a man.

But if you want kids, and you want them to be able to love themselves and other people, then you need a safe, loving and stable environment in order for them to reach their potential. And the best environment in my opinion is a solid marriage.

I love looking at girls <30 that are hot. I imagine banging a lot of them. And I wouldn't feel guilt about it, because I believe it is imbedded in most men's genes to always pursue strange. Cheap sperm and all that.

But if I were married* with kids to a good woman, then I'd be a fool to throw that all away. You just need one fuck-up to blow the entire thing up. Yeah, you could end up in divorce hell, but it's temporary. The worse thing is that your kids hate you for what you've done.

So, I'll probably not wander astray. I'll still game girls to keep my skill set from completely evaporating away. I also enjoy the hunt. But one fuck could fuck you for life, just like doing something stupid when you're young, e.g., get arrested, could encumber you for a long time. So my dick will stay true, at least until the kids are up and gone.

* I'm engaged, not married. But I'd be remiss if I said that I haven't been thinking about this a lot lately.

[Laner]

I agree that marriage without children should not exist.

But in a world that is never black and white, there will always be those who fall in between. For example young lovers, those who could not have children, those who have found a partner in life and do not want kids to change their lifestyle.

But some men find themselves the perfect mother for their children. Perhaps she will not be the hottest, but she will have all the other criteria that should be important when choosing the mother.

In this way a man should be focused on himself first and children second. Everything that a man does should be to better himself, and therefore those who are dependent on him. Even if the mother works, everything should be about him bettering the welfare of the family.

Within this is a mans sexual health. The lust and sexual aggression diminishes when children are involved, but this has nothing to do with the mans libido. Given the opportunity with a young beautiful woman that desire comes back instantly. This will never change, man has been doing this for far too long to think that risk of punishment will take this out of our nature.

When I took this stance in life in my mid 20's I have been blessed with attracting the best women I could find. It has never had the adverse effect where the women in my life try to seek my punishment or some type of revenge. I never waiver on my stance, and I never let my sexual health effect my personal relationships. Most women walk eventually, but not for lack of trying on their part to hold themselves to who they think my ideal is.

[not_dead_yet]

Before you get married, drop a dime on a divorce attorney. Have them explain to you what you should expect if you get divorced, and how much a prenup can help you in that situation.

You're a big boy and you get to make your own decisions, but make sure they're informed ones.

[Phoenix]

I'd probably feel pretty bad cheating on a wife. Supposedly if she's good enough to marry, she's something special, and if she's living with you, she's probably having sex with you as much as you need.

I'd also rebut the 'its the biological norm for a man to sleep around, and commitment is unnatural' idea. There is more than enough evidence that a natural biological commitment instinct exists in men, but it is more limited than it is in women. Children with fathers traditionally survive and thrive more successfully. Raising children is a legitimate male reproductive strategy, especially in the traditional capacity of 'continuous pregnancy' (many children), and is the background in which most human beings have been conceived since the dawn of civilization. Perhaps you could argue that 'one wife' is not a biological norm for men who can support many, but the maximum reproductive strategy is actually 'concubines', not 'being a playboy'.

[dark_g]

(12-05-2014 12:08 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

I'd probably feel pretty bad cheating on a wife. Supposedly if she's good enough to marry, she's something special, and if she's living with you, she's probably having sex with you as much as you need.

Ha ha ha ha ha, you should revisit this statement in about 10 years and 2-3 kids later.

[Gatekeeper]

I don't think of it as cheating really, more of "playing with free agents", we as men get bored easily after we make a conquest. It is our nature.

[Americas]

If my girlfriend wants a monogamous relationship, I don't sleep with other girls. It's as simple as that. I don't feel like you can have a healthy relationship with someone when you are actively lying, undermining her wishes, and disrespecting her. If you can't handle that, then I don't see the point of getting into a serious LTR.

Now, if the girl is fine with an open arrangement or the relationship is not serious then whatever who cares.

I've had two serious relationships in my life and I didn't cheat on either girl. Both girls had sex with me every night and let me do whatever I wanted in the bedroom. I was pleased sexually and I didn't get "bored." Did I see girls and sometimes ponder how nice it would be to stick my dick in them? Sure. But at the end of the day that was the price I paid for a plethora of benefits that having a good girl locked down gives you.

[Rawmeo]

(12-09-2014 11:48 PM)Americas Wrote:  

If my girlfriend wants a monogamous relationship, I don't sleep with other girls. It's as simple as that. I don't feel like you can have a healthy relationship with someone when you are actively lying, undermining her wishes, and disrespecting her. If you can't handle that, then I don't see the point of getting into a serious LTR.

Now, if the girl is fine with an open arrangement or the relationship is not serious then whatever who cares.

I've had two serious relationships in my life and I didn't cheat on either girl. Both girls had sex with me every night and let me do whatever I wanted in the bedroom. I was pleased sexually and I didn't get "bored." Did I see girls and sometimes ponder how nice it would be to stick my dick in them? Sure. But at the end of the day that was the price I paid for a plethora of benefits that having a good girl locked down gives you.

With due respect, I think this point of view is clearly a girl's point of view.

You do not need to actively lie to be a good cheater. You can just go out with friends, and oops, it happened. It all depends on your girlfriend too. I believe that loyalty is something that the girl must deserve, rather than taking it for granted.

For example if my girlfriend gives me good sex, cooks, etc. I will probably not cheat. But if she starts saying no to sex sometimes, complaining, etc. then I will think, "she is not paying attention, so why should I?" and I will cheat like I always did. It's not about revenge or anything, it's about the fact that yes every man would love to bang other girls, but they're holding themselves, i.e. volunteerly punishing themselves, by not doing it, in order to respect their girlfriend. If she girlfriend doesn't show enough respect, you simply do what you always wanted to do.

[Americas]

(12-09-2014 11:56 PM)alex3948 Wrote:  

With due respect, I think this point of view is clearly a girl's point of view.

You do not need to actively lie to be a good cheater. You can just go out with friends, and oops, it happened. It all depends on your girlfriend too. I believe that loyalty is something that the girl must deserve, rather than taking it for granted.

That doesn't really change the equation. That's just not being honest. And if you feel any guilt whatsoever, then you are lying to her and yourself. It's a rationalization if you make the statement "well since it never came up, I am not actually lying."

Quote:

For example if my girlfriend gives me good sex, cooks, etc. I will probably not cheat. But if she starts saying no to sex sometimes, complaining, etc. then I will think, "she is not paying attention, so why should I?" and I will cheat like I always did. It's not about revenge or anything, it's about the fact that yes every man would love to bang other girls, but they're holding themselves, i.e. volunteerly punishing themselves, by not doing it, in order to respect their girlfriend. If she girlfriend doesn't show enough respect, you simply do what you always wanted to do.

I don't care about the cooking thing but I have never had a girlfriend ever decline sex from me outside of very rare or exceptional circumstances. In fact, both relationships I have had the girl has an equal or higher sex drive than I do.

I agree that the respect needs to be earned. But that's the point of the dating process. For me, there is no "entering" a serious relationship until that respect has been earned and the girl has been seriously vetted.

On the flip side of that, the respect isn't some fluctuating wave either. Sure, girls can royally fuck up and the respect can be broken. But it's not like oh, she did this small thing that I didn't like: *respect level drops a point.*

[Gatekeeper]

Well monogamy in general goes against a man's biological instincts and nature to have as many partners as possible. Modern Men in general have been so whipped and plugged into the Matrix, they are brainwashed into thinking it is a one person show when it doesn't have to be.
Once the sex gets withheld, I am shortly on the prowl for a FWB, ex-jump off, etc. to quench my thirst, otherwise I'd be more on the straight and narrow.

I don't feel any guilt at all for any indiscretions I've had since I started catching HJs in high school, marriage, LTR, all one big artificial construct that are out to snare and destroy most men.