[Phoenix]

Hi All,

I am looking for more ideas on defeating my skinniness.

Basically this has been with me for my whole life. I only briefly managed to 'take the edge off it' after a period of 6 months hard gymning and some attempts to force feed (bulking shakes). That has since been lost due to travel.

This skinniness has been the number one limiting factor in my quality of life.
It has severely damaged my success with women, and loses me respect from men. When I see recent pictures or movies of myself, I am shocked how thin and gaunt I look. Furthermore, more than half of the women I meet, and more than half of the women I have slept with, make very direct comments about it.
For me, this problem is very important, and I want to defeat it above all else.

Medically, no problem has shown up. T levels are average for my age, no signs in blood of any pathology that would explain this. Doctors are basically useless, and are unable or unwilling to even theorize what the problem might be.

Gymning is not the issue. I can go to a gym consistently and do sets to failure of compound lifts with no problem. This is trivial.

This is a nutrition issue, unless there is some genetic reason why my body cannot hold fat and muscle mass.
My appetite is very poor and my eating is inconsistent. I basically lack the strong and automatic feeding instinct that I witness in everyone else. My feeding instinct is much weaker. Exercise does not improve my hunger, and if I ever get run down (exhaustion, bad sleep etc) my appetite evaporates. I never wake up hungry.

I am aware of no other male family members who suffered from skinniness.

I welcome any ideas which fit the following three criteria:
- Will not cause permanent adverse side effects. Any and all drugs, including experimental ones, are welcome to be suggested, as are any other medical procedures, providing they fit this criteria. To fit forum rules it will likely have to be legal (and if its not I probably can't get it anyway), but you can PM me.
- Are feasible. Walking around with a drip would be an example of infeasible.
- Are not simplistic advice. 'Just eat more' is an example, but 'this is how you can eat more' is welcome.

Things I have already started to try, or have tried before:
- Running a stopwatch, and timing how long it takes between meals. This raises my attention to large gaps (forgetting to eat, or being preoccupied with something else so I don't eat).
- Blending and drinking a bulking shake before bed (milk, oats, olive oil, Ensure nutrition powder, peanut butter etc). I forget this half the time though.
- GOMAD failed because it destroyed my appetite for solid meals and clogged up my digestive system.

Extreme things I have considered:
- Hiring a maid/cook in a cheap country to basically keep shoving food/shakes into my mouth.
- Ghrelin mimetics.

I put this question to this forum due to its high proportion of no-bullshit, enlightened men. Any help is appreciated.

TL;DR: I am scrawny, likely due to bad appetite, and it sucks. How can I fix this?

[Padawan]

Smoke some weed.

[Kitsune]

First thing I would do is arrange for private tests so you can get the actual levels yourself.

For years, I was massively underweight. (I still am, but am getting there.) I went to doctor after doctor and they all said the key words, "Your levels are within normal range."

Normal range for a doctor is basically "Is this person going to die in the next two days?" If not, then you're within the normal limit. It doesn't matter if you have thyroid levels which burn fat quicker than you can eat it, or is you have the testosterone levels of an 80 year old man.

So, get your levels done first. Then you can work out what the likely causes are. Then you can work out what to do with it.

For instance, if you have a really active thyroid and you burn fat very quickly, your approach will be different to say, if you have low test. One is going to require trying to kickstart your metabolism, the other is to slow it down.

^That's a bit bro-sciency, but I'm not an expert.

Danger and Play has a post on getting your levels checked. Might want to read up there.

If it turns out you are completely 'normal' and you 'just need to eat more,' there are a lot of things you can do to up your calories. I tried GOMAD. Same result as you in that my digestive system got all sorts of messed up. So then I switched to half a gallon and more food. Seemed to do the trick. find what consumption causes you trouble and go to that limit.

Don't be afraid to eat dirty. if you're really looking to put size on, you're going to gain fat. You're going to gain muscle and you're going to gain water. Just think of it as inevitable and solving it as a problem for another day. If you like eating clean for being healthy's sake, then get some of your friends together and go for an all you can eat buffet a couple of times a week. Try and replace any snacks you have that are low in calories with snacks that are high in calories. forget any sort of 'intermittent fasting' or other fads. Eat loads. Whenever you're hungry, eat until you aren't anymore, even if that's ten times a day.

As regards the gym, I'm far from an expert but I found that contrary to common advice, lifting heavy and compound exercises wiped me out and didn't give me gains. I found doing more volume and less weight made me get bigger and healthier. Again, that sort of thing comes down to what your blood test and body tells you, just saying it worked for me. I'm not as strong as someone who squats heavy twice a week, but at least I'm not too skinny for an extra small t shirt anymore.

[CimbomluBkk]

How tall are you, how much do you weigh?

[Parlay44]

Move to America. We seem to have solved that problem

[Comte De St. Germain]

I kind of disagree as a skinny guy I still get lots of love. Have you ever considered that maybe it's the way you dress or the way you style your hair? Shorts and a tank top are not going to benefit guys like us and so a smooth jacket, v-neck, and dare I say it black skinny jeans will put you far ahead of the competition.

Side note: Realize also that bitches were still fucking you regardless if being skinny so that's not as much of a reason. Still try to bulk up but there might be other issues at play.

[Rutting Elephant]

Tapeworm?
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-42047.html

[The Beast1]

What's your work out routine? You need to be lifting heavy with full body compound movements.

With that said, you should be eating caloric dense foods. Think bacon, sausage, oatmeal, and a fried egg. No more white potatoes or white bread. It's whole wheat from here on out. Also start drinking whole milk as your liquid of choice outside of the gym.

Also, before bed drink a whole milk casein protein shake.

I had a similar problem when I first started out. I was very skinny and had no appetite. I had to trick my body with more caloric dense foods which worked. Lift heavy compound lifts and stop all forms of cardio. That should help you gain mass.

[Phoenix]

(11-09-2014 09:32 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

First thing I would do is arrange for private tests so you can get the actual levels yourself.
..
As regards the gym, I'm far from an expert but I found that contrary to common advice, lifting heavy and compound exercises wiped me out and didn't give me gains. I found doing more volume and less weight made me get bigger and healthier.

Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) around 3 ulU/ml (reference range 0.27-4.20).
Testosterone around 600 ng/dL (reference range 280 -800).

Interesting, yes perhaps I should try a bit lighter and more volume.

(11-09-2014 09:48 AM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

I kind of disagree as a skinny guy I still get lots of love. Have you ever considered that maybe it's the way you dress or the way you style your hair? Shorts and a tank top are not going to benefit guys like us and so a smooth jacket, v-neck, and dare I say it black skinny jeans will put you far ahead of the competition.

Side note: Realize also that bitches were still fucking you regardless if being skinny so that's not as much of a reason. Still try to bulk up but there might be other issues at play.

Yes I still get girls, but when I see the kinds of girls other guys were getting, who basically had little else on me other than "big chest", it pisses me off. I've seen and researched more than enough proof of the respect a decent body gets, to know that it is severely limiting my competitiveness.
My styling is usually as good or better than other men.

(11-09-2014 09:56 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  

Tapeworm?

Lol, well I've never passed anything worm-looking, so I hope not.

[RasCharlamagne]

Ighh bro, first thing is gomad, eat what you want, magic formula diets just don't pay dividends, and if they do its not even going to add muscle to your body. If you're lifting like I think you're lifting (more on that later) you probably aren't adding any muscle at all and these diets will just lead to fat. To gain lean muscle weight you have to eat healthy or take steroids. For us skinny fucks there's no other choice. So count your calories and make sure you're getting about 200-500 additional calories on top of what you should eat to maintain your current weight. Anything more will just become fat. On the topic of lifting, you can't lift to failure, especially with compound lifts. That's something for guys who are cutting or close to their genetic limits. You have to get on a strong 5x5 program and then add on a few more compound movements with an isolation for your long limbs on top of that. Try going to the gym and lifting only three times a week, and when you go lift as heavy as you can. You'll be hitting every body part once a week, so you can real bust shit up. Assuming you have a long frame like myself, your best mass gaining friend will be the deadlift. Focus on this lift and make it your wife. Second, make sure your actually squating. A lot of skinny guys will think it's possible for them to start of squating 135+. It's impossible. Your legs aren't going to be strong enough and unless your as tall as me (6'8) you should be squating ass to grass. With your other lifts just focus on a full range of motion. Make sure you're sleep schedule is healthy. Seven hours of INTERRUPTED sleep is good. Your ancestors didn't sleep straight through the night and neither should you. Finally, you should pick up a martial art, because it sounds like you're a little uncomfortable with yourself as a human being, and building a stronger body and the skills to kick some ass are the two things to help with that. Good luck, with the muscle gains man!

[Parlay44]

I'm guessing from your flag that you're Japanese Correct me if I'm wrong. Asian men seem to have the "skinny gene" with the exception of the Sumo wrestlers but even they are mostly fat and not huge body builders.

I think it's just Asian genetics my man. Look at Bruce Lee for example. He's one of the most ripped and jacked Asian guys ever and he's not really that big.



He was 5 '6 and his weighed around 145, and at his biggest he went all the way up to 165 lbs. That's not huge by any standard and he worked out like a beast.

Can you post some pics of your expectations? Maybe a body builder physique you're trying to achieve?

[ball dont lie]

First off:

How thin exactly? Height and weight would be a good starting point, just to make sure we know whats going on.

I would look to foods with VERY high calorie levels. Breads, cakes, chugging coconut oil and olive oil after meals.

http://bonytobeastly.com/

That website helped me a lot. I listened to that, worked out more, eat a lot more, drank a lot of shakes. But the reality is, if you are small boned, petite dude, without steroids you aren't cock diesel big. Maybe 10 more lbs, maybe 15-20 if there is extra fat added. I lifted and ate heavy for a year and gained 5 lbs. Nature.

[Phoenix]

(11-09-2014 10:18 AM)frenchie Wrote:  

What's your work out routine? You need to be lifting heavy with full body compound movements.

I had a similar problem when I first started out. I was very skinny and had no appetite. I had to trick my body with more caloric dense foods which worked. Lift heavy compound lifts and stop all forms of cardio. That should help you gain mass.

All the food I eat is high calorie, and when I was lifting it was all heavy compound. Unfortunately I will actually have to start cardio, as I don't think my cardiovascular fitness is good enough (sex tires me too fast).

(11-09-2014 10:22 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

I'm guessing from your flag that you're Japanese Correct me if I'm wrong.

Can you post some pics of your expectations? Maybe a body builder physique you're trying to achieve?

No, am white Australian.
This would be fine:


That's not 'big', but its respectable. Its about the maximum I can probably hope for. I just have to 'not be skinny'. My actual frame, I'm told by a nutritionist, should have decent upper-body muscularity due to my broad shoulders.
I'm currently basically the guy on the left of this picture:

[Nascimento]

I wish I had a problem with skinniness.

I had a roommate that I gave some nutrition advice to, helped him gain weight. He is 6'5 and at the time had never broken past 180 lbs despite his hard efforts and crazy appetite. He said he tried the lot, mass gainers, eating everything, didn't help.

If you're anything like him, it won't actually be hard to gain weight, it will be hard to maintain that gained weight. He got himself to 200 lbs in a few months and radically changed his physique, combining some of my advice with his hard work in the gym. He is back down to his 180 lbs because for him it was too expensive and also difficult to maintain that eating regime.

Here's what worked for him and what you need to do:
- weight gainers help
- eat several large meals a day. Eat when you are not hungry. Nuts are fantastic because they are caloric, have some protein, and most importantly have good fats. Eat brazil nuts and almonds religiously
- macaroni and cheese. Cheap at the supermarket, a box meal or two at the end of the day is essential. 700-1000 extra calories for the day. Do this as often as possible.
- Expand your current meals

You're going to have to get used to feeling full and uncomfortable. These tips are of course to supplement everything you've tried already. Do what you've done before to try and gain weight with minimal results, and supplement what I just told you. You should aim to gain around 4 pounds a month, not much more, but no less.

This advice only applies to someone in your position. Someone else like me that can put on weight more easily, I have to be more delicate with my nutrition otherwise I will gain more fat. Since you are starting off skinny, you have the best starting base there is.

My advantage is that it's not so difficult to maintain my new weight. That is where you will struggle. You'll have to maintain most of the habits that get you to that new weight in the first place.

But focus on getting there first, then you can change your objective.

Good luck

[aeroektar]

What is your height and weight?

You sound exactly like the old me, I used to hear it from everyone all the time, no one took me seriously. Being small framed with a fast metabolism is about the worst combination. I've always had a hard time gaining even fat, and when I do gain fat, I can lose it extremely fast. Unfortunately the same goes for muscle.

Realize that no matter what, your going to have to change your lifestyle and mindset to meet your goals. Don't look at it like "damnit I just don't want to be skinny" or "I don't want to do this but I have to", instead you must embrace the road ahead and be patient. I had that quick fix, negative mindset and managed to waste 5 months dicking around with this and not taking it seriously enough, not being committed enough and losing hope when I looked in the mirror.

Eating can feel like a chore early on, but the further you go the easier it gets, to the point where you WANT to consume all that food. You don't need to eat like a world class body builder, just eat like a man. For instance, I've discovered several foods and meals I thoroughly enjoy that are full of the good stuff we need to build muscle and maintain health. I'm not shoveling this shit down with a frown on my face, that's key, I look forward to eating now.

Its pretty simple, workout and eat right, there's no magic pill for us skinny fucks, you know what you have to do, you just have to commit to it 110%.

[dog24]

I could do a long post on this to try and help you out, but i dont think you really want to gain weight for whatever reason, have you considered that you might be self sabotaging your success?

[Comte De St. Germain]

Gonna have to second the nuts. I have a skinny frame but the legs of a race horse and had the most solid set of and and pecs known to man. I think this might have to do with the large amount of meat and nuts in my diet. I have a profound live for pistachios that keep cholesterol down and give you protein. The doctor actually said I had too little cholesterol recently

[Phoenix]

OK I'll stock up on some nuts.

(11-09-2014 12:02 PM)aeroektar Wrote:  

Eating can feel like a chore early on, but the further you go the easier it gets, to the point where you WANT to consume all that food. You don't need to eat like a world class body builder, just eat like a man. For instance, I've discovered several foods and meals I thoroughly enjoy that are full of the good stuff we need to build muscle and maintain health. I'm not shoveling this shit down with a frown on my face, that's key, I look forward to eating now.

How do you get the majority of your meals? Do you cook them, or is it something cold, or do you eat out?

Regarding height and weight, I'd prefer to avoid posting those specific numbers. The drawing of the skinny guy above looks like me.

(11-09-2014 12:10 PM)dog24 Wrote:  

but i dont think you really want to gain weight for whatever reason, have you considered that you might be self sabotaging your success?

Probably wouldn't be asking for this help if that were the case. I'd be eating a carrot instead.

[DickDastardly]

Delete

[RasCharlamagne]

@DickDastardly you should gain that weight and strength back relatively quickly

[The Beast1]

(11-09-2014 10:27 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

(11-09-2014 10:18 AM)frenchie Wrote:  

What's your work out routine? You need to be lifting heavy with full body compound movements.

I had a similar problem when I first started out. I was very skinny and had no appetite. I had to trick my body with more caloric dense foods which worked. Lift heavy compound lifts and stop all forms of cardio. That should help you gain mass.

All the food I eat is high calorie, and when I was lifting it was all heavy compound. Unfortunately I will actually have to start cardio, as I don't think my cardiovascular fitness is good enough (sex tires me too fast).

(11-09-2014 10:22 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

I'm guessing from your flag that you're Japanese Correct me if I'm wrong.

Can you post some pics of your expectations? Maybe a body builder physique you're trying to achieve?

No, am white Australian.
This would be fine:


That's not 'big', but its respectable. Its about the maximum I can probably hope for. I just have to 'not be skinny'. My actual frame, I'm told by a nutritionist, should have decent upper-body muscularity due to my broad shoulders.
I'm currently basically the guy on the left of this picture:

Give us specifics on your routine and what a typical full eating schedule looks like. What compound lifts with rep/set ranges are you doing?

Cardio is only going to slow down your mass gains and make your problem worse. Trust me on this.

[CimbomluBkk]

And be careful if you eat too much you might get a belly, thats even worse than being skinny imho

[Hades]

If you're trying to figure out how to increase your appetite, try to eat a lot more greasy or sugary carbs early in the morning. These seem to spur appetite and it's likely that you'll be hungrier by noon than if you had skipped breakfast.

You can probably eat a bag of Snickers and a salad bowl full of mashed potatoes at breakfast and still eat a large lunch. Whenever I try to gain size it's rice or potatoes with lots of butter at every meal.

Another good tip is just observe the eating habits of everyone else. Serious fatasses cram themselves with food at every opportunity. It might be a good idea to set an alarm for 4:00 AM to eat a large meal and then go back to bed.

[Sidney Crosby]

Protein powder, bananas and whole milk in a blender. Doesn't take that bad either and it's easy to just drink it down. With two scoops of protein, 2 bananas and the milk it should be around 550-600 ish calories.

[Lemmo]

If you can cut the walking out of your commute or reduce it (hard to do if you are in Tokyo), I've found that I can avoid squandering a lot of calories. Gains come much easier when I am in the US and driving vs. being in Tokyo and walking.