[Deluge]

Putting on muscle as a skinny guy will improve your sex life. No if's or buts about it.

Phoenix, are you still upping your numbers on your compound lifts even though you're not gaining size?

You've said it yourself you're not eating enough. I have a normal appetite and even I have to force myself to plow through all the food I need to eat. It's not pleasant, takes a long time and requires copious amounts of liquid to get through it, but where there's a will there's a way. I do all this extra eating at the same time each night which keeps me consistent.

[StrikeBack]

Vitamin B12 is known to increase appetite, IIRC.

A good eating strategy for skinny guys is to just count proteins. Get at least 2g per kilo of bodyweight. Don't care about carbs or fats, as long as you hit your daily protein minimum. Force feed extra carbs and fats after you've hit the protein min.

The reason behind this strategy is that skinny guys often get full from all the carbs and fats they eat in regular foods that they don't have enough proteins which obviously means they don't have enough for muscle building.

[civpro]

I have the opposite problem, which is that I have a slow metabolism and gain fat super easy.

I realized that the answer for us genetically inferior guys (skinny guys who want to gain weight and maintain it, or flabby guys who want to lose fat and maintain it) is that we have to throw taste and variety out the window. We simply have to give that up.

So, set a caloric/macronutrient target and design a meal plan or two around it. Then, follow it to a T. Eat the same shit everyday, forever.

It will not be fun but it's what the circumstances require. Beyond a cheat meal or two a week, if you veer off from the plan and eat by feel like you normally would then you're not gonna make it. The flabby guy's gonna snack on more calories and gain back his fat and the skinny guy's gonna eat less and lose his gained weight.

[FretDancer]

(11-09-2014 10:27 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

Phoenix

First of all, congratulations for making the deciding to change.

I was just like you some years ago, I guess something like the guy on the left in the image, maybe even skinnier.

Now I am more like the guy on the right: Muscular, defined biceps, triceps, shoulders, lats, and still relatively lean. I am not a huge guy by any means (5'7 , ~140lbs).

Now, rewind to those years when I also decided to change, I didn't know jack shit about weight training, physiology or nutrition. However that didn't stop me from actually making weight gains (note the word weight here).

What did I do?

I'll put it in simple terms. I would try to eat 3 times a day until satisfied. Additionally I would drink a shake (with milk, not water) along with protein powder after a meal, twice a day.

Only 1 of these shakes alone was like 900 calories. Drinking two would make it 1800 calories and like 100g of protein (Every shake had like 50g if i remember correctly). All this only in shakes!

Adding all the other calories from food maybe summed to 5000 calories perhaps? I have no idea.

The point is, those years when I was just a scrawny little bitch and I weighed like 105lbs, eating like this obviously made me gain weight.

However this was not easy. I remember when trying to drink those shakes after a lunch or breakfast, I felt like I was gonna puke it all afterwards, my stomach would just feel so bloated... I just sucked it up.

This combined with consistent gym training (wouldn't say the best training, but still some training and work done nonetheless). I gained muscle mass and fat along with it, of course.

In the past year i've lost a lot of that fat and I am almost reaching 10% BF if I am not mistaken.

Hope this helps you in some way, good luck my friend.

[B00G3r]

What's your sleep schedule looking like?

I used to get about 4-6 hours a night and would stay at the same weight until I made the change to sleep 7-9 hours per night. Also, try to incorporate the app "Sleep Cycle" into your sleeping routine.

After doing this, I felt like my muscles began to recover more fully from workouts. No change in diet.

I've been off gluten and dairy for a year, so that's been a challenge in itself.

Before (2 months ago):
5'10, 150 lbs.

Now:
158-160 lbs. Aiming for 170-180 lbs.

[Phoenix]

Thanks for all this help guys. Its great to hear other guys have been in the same situation but have gotten out of it.

(11-09-2014 05:13 PM)Deluge Wrote:  

Putting on muscle as a skinny guy will improve your sex life. No if's or buts about it.

Phoenix, are you still upping your numbers on your compound lifts even though you're not gaining size?

You've said it yourself you're not eating enough. I have a normal appetite and even I have to force myself to plow through all the food I need to eat. It's not pleasant, takes a long time and requires copious amounts of liquid to get through it, but where there's a will there's a way. I do all this extra eating at the same time each night which keeps me consistent.

Yes, my compound lifts were increasing in weight, in spite of no size gain. I am actually quite strong for how skinny I look in pictures.
My reading of the 'bony to beastly' site (thanks to who recommended that) suggests that:
- I may have been lifting too heavy, and should drop back a bit and do more volume. I was basically getting fried after a few sets of a few exercises.
- I should add a few isolation exercises (curls etc) on top of the compound lifts.

Yes my eating consistency is poor. I'm currently looking for a 'alarm + stopwatch' app. I want it to go off every 3hrs, but not at night, and to keep timing until I reset it after a meal.

[Beyond Borders]

(11-09-2014 08:21 PM)civpro Wrote:  

I have the opposite problem, which is that I have a slow metabolism and gain fat super easy.

I realized that the answer for us genetically inferior guys (skinny guys who want to gain weight and maintain it, or flabby guys who want to lose fat and maintain it) is that we have to throw taste and variety out the window. We simply have to give that up.

I'm not sure I agree with that as far as the skinny guys go. Variety of food keeps you hungry - it's often recommended to focus on clearing one food at a time off your plate if you want to lose weight because it curbs your appetite.

With this in mind, I'd do the complete opposite if I was a hard-gainer and put as much variety on my plate during and in between meals as possible. Make your life a constant smorgasbord.

[Deluge]

(11-10-2014 02:36 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

My reading of the 'bony to beastly' site (thanks to who recommended that) suggests that:
- I may have been lifting too heavy, and should drop back a bit and do more volume. I was basically getting fried after a few sets of a few exercises.
- I should add a few isolation exercises (curls etc) on top of the compound lifts.

I had this issue too. You don't need to stop doing your heavy low volume sets for your big compound lifts, just add high volume drop sets and isolation exercises into your workouts after your big compounds.

[Beyond Borders]

(11-09-2014 10:23 AM)ball dont lie Wrote:  

First off:

How thin exactly? Height and weight would be a good starting point, just to make sure we know whats going on.

I would look to foods with VERY high calorie levels. Breads, cakes, chugging coconut oil and olive oil after meals.

http://bonytobeastly.com/

That website helped me a lot. I listened to that, worked out more, eat a lot more, drank a lot of shakes. But the reality is, if you are small boned, petite dude, without steroids you aren't cock diesel big. Maybe 10 more lbs, maybe 15-20 if there is extra fat added. I lifted and ate heavy for a year and gained 5 lbs. Nature.

I did some reading on that site. Good info and solid writing - these guys put a decent amount of work into that site.

[The Beast1]

(11-10-2014 02:36 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

Thanks for all this help guys. Its great to hear other guys have been in the same situation but have gotten out of it.

(11-09-2014 05:13 PM)Deluge Wrote:  

Putting on muscle as a skinny guy will improve your sex life. No if's or buts about it.

Phoenix, are you still upping your numbers on your compound lifts even though you're not gaining size?

You've said it yourself you're not eating enough. I have a normal appetite and even I have to force myself to plow through all the food I need to eat. It's not pleasant, takes a long time and requires copious amounts of liquid to get through it, but where there's a will there's a way. I do all this extra eating at the same time each night which keeps me consistent.

Yes, my compound lifts were increasing in weight, in spite of no size gain. I am actually quite strong for how skinny I look in pictures.
My reading of the 'bony to beastly' site (thanks to who recommended that) suggests that:
- I may have been lifting too heavy, and should drop back a bit and do more volume. I was basically getting fried after a few sets of a few exercises.
- I should add a few isolation exercises (curls etc) on top of the compound lifts.

Yes my eating consistency is poor. I'm currently looking for a 'alarm + stopwatch' app. I want it to go off every 3hrs, but not at night, and to keep timing until I reset it after a meal.

What is your lifting routine with rep/set ranges and a rough idea of what you eat daily. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks.

Without these details none of us here can give you definitive answers. When I was struggling to put on mass and strength, I was asking all of the wrong questions and trying all of the wrong things.

I can type up my routine for you and my eating schedule which helped me put on muscle from 150 to 180. It's what has worked for me and being a high metabolism guy with a low appetite threshold this might help you too.

[Phoenix]

Thanks frenchie, that sounds awesome

As an example of an 'average eating day', I'll have a lunch (basically a very late breakfast) of bacon, sausage, egg, beans, toast. Then later I'll have a pizza, and finish the day with a bulking shake. There may be a snack or two of chocolate bars thrown in. If I ever have breakfast, its always coffee + something sugary like a donut.

My lifting routine I use is:
Push-pull split (one day push, next day pull) of:
Deadlift - 3 x ~5 reps at failure
Lat pulldown - 3 x ~8 reps at failure
Row - 3 x ~8 reps at failure
/
Squat - 3 x ~6 reps
Bench press - 3 x ~5 reps
Shoulder press - 3 x ~ 6 reps at failure

Those routines will leave me completely drained at the end.

Your eating schedule etc will probably be a great help.

[Giovonny]

I've been skinny my whole life.

It was always hard for me to gain muscle mass because I did 2-3 hours of cardio everyday. (playing basketball, soccer, boxing, running, etc.)

It took me years to learn how to build muscle.

Here is what worked for me:

- Stop doing hours of cardio everyday

- Compound lifts (Squats, dead lifts, bench press, pull ups, overhead press)

- Lift heavy and lift hard! Intensity and effort in the weight room!

- Eat more. Eat better. Steak and potatoes will build muscle better than donuts and candy!

(11-10-2014 10:37 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

I'll have a lunch (basically a very late breakfast) of bacon, sausage, egg, beans, toast. Then later I'll have a pizza, and finish the day with a bulking shake. There may be a snack or two of chocolate bars thrown in. If I ever have breakfast, its always coffee + something sugary like a donut.

This diet can be improved a lot.

Pizza, donuts, and chocolate bars should be eaten only in moderation. They should not be a regular part of your diet. Your body has a hard time turning these things into muscle.

I recommend adding some quality carbs such as oatmeal, yams, brown rice, etc.

I recommend adding some quality protein like fish, chicken, beef, lamb, goat, etc.

I recommend adding some fresh fruits and vegetables. These provide quality calories and carbs while at the same time helping to burn fat.

Also, many "bulking" products are made from low quality ingredients. Use a high quality "bulking" product or just replace the "bulking" product with high quality food.

*****

Here are some examples to help give you an idea of how you should be eating:

Breakfast -- oatmeal, 6 eggs, fruit

Snack -- fruit and nuts

Lunch -- Meat, brown rice, vegetables

Dinner -- Meat and vegetables.

---


8am -- Shake of 2 frozen bananas, a large scoop of peanut butter, 5 dates, coconut milk, protein powder.

10am -- large bowl of oatmeal with honey and a large handful of mixed nuts.

1pm -- 4 eggs mixed with with peppers and onion, brown rice, 4 corn tortillas

4pm -- Grilled chicken with tomatoes

7pm -- Grilled chicken with pineapple.

---


8am - smoothie (bananas, almonds, dates, coconut flesh, honey, protein powder)

9am - fresh fruits and nuts

10am - 5 or 6 egg whites, one whole egg, scrambled with veges. and tortillas.

1pm - fish, chicken, or steak tacos

3pm - peanut butter and jelly sandwich (pre work out)

6pm - another big meal (grilled chicken/fish/steak with brown rice and veges)(post work out)

8pm - fruit smoothie or salad

Before bed - protein shake.

[StrikeBack]

(11-10-2014 10:37 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

My lifting routine I use is:
Push-pull split (one day push, next day pull) of:
Deadlift - 3 x ~5 reps at failure
Lat pulldown - 3 x ~8 reps at failure
Row - 3 x ~8 reps at failure
/
Squat - 3 x ~6 reps
Bench press - 3 x ~5 reps
Shoulder press - 3 x ~ 6 reps at failure

Those routines will leave me completely drained at the end.

OK that's no wonder you're not putting on much and have poor appetite. The routine is too low volume. I want you to do some maths, either for a whole week or a whole month (4 weeks):

For each lift, get a volume total. Each work set's volume is: RepCount * Poundage. Each session's volume is the sum of all work set volumes. etc. You should have a number at the end as your volume total in kilos or lbs.

Track that volume total, and find ways to increase it.

One way is to stop training to failures at so few reps. It burns you hard so you can't do more sets afterwards, which lowers your volume total.

A good approach is 5/3/1 + Boring But Big where you work up to one max set, then drop down and do 5x10 or so at a lower weight. Excellent to add more volume.

You need to at least double the volume you're currently doing now to get some gains. It takes time to build that up (to have higher work capacity) so be patient. To give you an idea, during my hypertrophy phase of a training cycle, as an easy gainer, I'd do about 3-4 times the volume you're doing (adjusted for relative intensity).

As your volume goes up, so will your appetite, and of course, lean body mass.

[StrikeBack]

Before bed is a good time to get some slow burning protein (casein) e.g cottage cheese. Whey isn't optimal then.

[FretDancer]

Great post by Giovonny.


Phoenix, when did you start this new diet/way of eating? If you are eating considerably a lot of high calories, you should be gaining quite a considerable amount of pounds per week.

Also, I think fat gain is not an issue in your case?

[scorpion]

Some decent advice so far, but I'm going to give you the magic bullet. Are you ready for this? Ok. First thing you do, go to the store and buy 5-6 Snickers bars. Don't eat them, just hold them in a bag or your pockets for now.

Then go outside your nearest fast food restaurant and wait around for awhile. It shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or two.

Eventually he will show up. You will know him immediately. You can't miss him. He might roll up on a motorized scooter, otherwise he will shamble up to the door slowly, breathing heavily by the time he gets there. He will weigh at least 400 lbs.

"Hello, sir," you will say to him.

"Aahhh what?" *belch* he will reply.

"My name is Phoenix. I seek to learn the skills you have mastered. Please take me on as your apprentice and teach me how to gain weight."

"What the hell you talkin' about man?"

"Here you go," you say as you hand him a couple of Snickers bars.

"Oooh. Oh yeah thats the good stuff right there." *OMM NOM NOM*

Then you just have to follow around your new teacher for a few weeks. He will show you how to eat to gain weight. Prepare to have your mind blown.

[aeroektar]

Looking at the way you eat, you have to put way more effort and thought into it then that. Are you putting any thought into your daily macros? You can't skimp on protein in your situation, shoot for 1 gram per pound of body weight. Honestly ask yourself how bad you want to change, and realize that eating the way you are isn't going to get it done.

Meat and eggs for your first meal is great, just aim for 1/4th or 1/3rd your protein intake, and have a fruit and vegetables.

Throw in another meal, chicken, steak, beef something, fish, whatever you want, again, 1/4th or 1/3rd your daily protein intake. Again, vegetables.

Repeat.

And repeat again.

Its really that simple, you need to meet your body's needs to build muscle, and trust me, pizza, chocolate and donuts isn't going to get you anywhere. You need to start thinking about pre and post workout meals, when to get carbs and fats, sources of healthy carbs and fats, etc.

[Phoenix]

Thanks Giovanny, StrikeBack,

Yes I will be lowering the weights to allow much greater volume, this seems to be a common thread now of the workout advice I have received.

The 'eat every 3 hours' advice is something I will aim to do; it is currently my most difficult task. It normally takes me about 30minutes per meal, plus the 15minutes+ to either prepare&clean up or to go to the restaurant. So that would probably mean 20% of the day engaged in eating or eating-related activities.

Perhaps I should carry a bag of sandwiches? Are there any tips on how to streamline this level of eating and maintain consistency?

(11-10-2014 08:03 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

Also, I think fat gain is not an issue in your case?

No not an issue, even when I was doing full-cream GOMAD without training, I barely put on any fat, and it quickly evaporated when I stopped.

[civpro]

Do not listen to Giovonny's diet advice, it is pure broscience. 'Clean foods' and meal timing don't matter, it's Calories In Calories Out at the end of the day.

[Cyr]

(11-11-2014 11:50 AM)civpro Wrote:  

Do not listen to Giovonny's diet advice, it is pure broscience. 'Clean foods' and meal timing don't matter, it's Calories In Calories Out at the end of the day.

I have to disagree with you.
Firstly, there are some foods that fill you up more than others, even if you eat the same amount. If he eats foods which aren't very filling relative to their calorie content, it will be easier to gain weight.

Second of all, Phoenix is not just trying to gain weight. He is trying to put on quality mass. If he was only concerned with changing the reading on his scale, then calories in vs out would be the main thing. However he wants to gain muscle, so should eat foods that are conducive to doing so.

Finally, meal timing obviously matters. You would have a harder time gaining weight if you only ate one meal a day, as you would fill up and be unable to physically eat more, vs 4+ meals per day. One of the reasons fat people get fat is because they are always snacking (having more meals per day).

[The Beast1]

(11-10-2014 10:37 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

Thanks frenchie, that sounds awesome

As an example of an 'average eating day', I'll have a lunch (basically a very late breakfast) of bacon, sausage, egg, beans, toast. Then later I'll have a pizza, and finish the day with a bulking shake. There may be a snack or two of chocolate bars thrown in. If I ever have breakfast, its always coffee + something sugary like a donut.

My lifting routine I use is:
Push-pull split (one day push, next day pull) of:
Deadlift - 3 x ~5 reps at failure
Lat pulldown - 3 x ~8 reps at failure
Row - 3 x ~8 reps at failure
/
Squat - 3 x ~6 reps
Bench press - 3 x ~5 reps
Shoulder press - 3 x ~ 6 reps at failure

Those routines will leave me completely drained at the end.

Your eating schedule etc will probably be a great help.

Excellent that helps quite a bit. Are you doing an A/B day swap? You're probably over training if you're doing squats and deadlifts that often during a week. Initially, I saw difficulty in putting on quality mass. Increasing my volume didn't help at all. Looking back on everything, the problem I had was the lack of a strength foundation.


I'm assuming you recently started lifting.
Here is what helped me build a nice strength foundation. I adapted this routine from another website. I have a close friend who I helped introduce to the gym using this routine and she lost a lot of weight and got significantly stronger. My legs, shoulders, and back exploded with this starting routine and my friend lost 5 lbs of fat over the course of six weeks (with me pushing her hard to lift heavy). Use a 5x5 on all of the lifts.

Day 1:
Pull ups (start with assisted and work towards weighted)
Bent over row
Deadlifts

Day 2:
Clean and press
Stand Up Row
Military Press

Day 3:
Moveable cheat day. I like to do some sprints on a treadmill. Basically 8.6 mph for a solid mile.

Day 4:
Deadlifts
Squats

Day 5:
Bench Press
Incline Bench Press
Dips (start with assisted and work towards weighted)
Dumb bell pull over

I personally like to do chest day last. My performance after a weekend of doing x,y,z was impeding my performance. I'm a bit better with diet and not drinking now, but this set up should help you get into the motion of things.

If you plateau with the bench and incline bench swap out from a straight bar to dumb bells. I normally half the straight bar weight and minus ten.

Take a rest week after 7-8 weeks of lifting. You will know when you need to rest because you will hit hard plateaus and your form will begin sucking. Make sure to foam roll before you lift, stretch out your hamstrings and calf muscles as well.

Focus entirely on pushing more weight. Don't worry about volume (yet)

Meal wise this is what I do daily:

Meal 1:
Turkey sausage
Bacon
1 Fried egg
Half a cup of McCains Instant Irish oatmeal

Meal 2:
Greek yoghurt
Banana
In season fruit (over the summer I ate strawberries, blueberries,etc. Fall i've been eating grapes)
Assorted unsalted nuts (almonds, cashews, peanuts,) and/or a PBJ (with a lot of peanut butter)

Meal 3: This is normally dinner so make sure to include a protein source with a lot of saturated fat. If the recipe calls for half a stick of butter, double it. Use indiscriminate amounts of olive oil as well. I really enjoy eating and cook a variety of different meals with chicken, steak, lamb, pork, etc. Bulking will suck hard core so cook food that you enjoy eating.

Meal 4 (drink before bed):
A casein protein shake (this is what I use : http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/ca...7Aod4jcAHQ)
2+ tablespoons of peanut butter
Frozen berries
1 tablespoon of psyllium husk (fiber to help you poo trust me this is the most important)
Fill it with whole milk.

For meals 1,2, and 4 drink whole milk as your liquid of choice. Get chocolate and/or strawberry syrup to make your beverage a treat.

This is my bulking diet. For cutting, I simply replace whole milk with almond milk. For maintenance I use 1% or 2% and cut down on the amount of saturated fat in meal 3. Make sure to eat a breakfast before you go to the gym.

Your body will be different and respond to this plan differently so do your best to accommodate what works for you. I was unable to put on weight initially because I wasn't moving enough weight on this routine. Start out lifting heavy with my 5x5 routine above and your appetite will follow. Leg day in particular will make you really hungry if you push yourself on the weights.

Do this consistently for about a year, maybe less. You will see your body transform and your strength increase. Eventually even after a rest week you will be unable to add on more weight. This is the time to modify the work out to include more chest exercises, volume changes, and the like.

Hope this helps.

[Giovonny]

(11-11-2014 08:01 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

It normally takes me about 30minutes per meal, plus the 15minutes+ to either prepare & clean up.

Perhaps I should carry a bag of sandwiches?

Are there any tips on how to streamline this level of eating and maintain consistency?

If you are serious about gaining muscle mass, you must learn how to prepare meals in advance.

You must learn how to shop for and cook large quantities of food so that your meals are ready when you need them.

Personally, I often make..

- a large pot of brown rice (lasts a few days)

- a large pot of beans (last a few days)

- Chili (easy to make, lasts a few days)

- Soup (easy to make, lasts a few days)

- Burger patties

- a large pot of steamed vegetables (lasts a few days)

Etc, etc.

-----

Also, learn which foods can be prepared quickly..

- eggs (5 minutes)

- oatmeal (5 minutes)

- Steak (10-15 minutes)

- Ground meat (10-15 minutes)

- Smoothies/Shakes (5 minutes)

- a can of tuna or sardines (1 minute)

-----

And, carry around some portable food in your car or school bag..

- nuts

- fruit

- avocados

- Trail mix

- peanut butter

- protein bars/shakes

-----


Buy a "Slow Cooker"/"CrockPot" and learn to make a few simple recipes.

Start with Chili.

(ground meat, tomato sauce, beans, onion, garlic, spices)

Very easy.

-----

Study these threads for more ideas:

"Cooking a big load to eat all week'

"Slow Cooker"

[civpro]

(11-11-2014 12:27 PM)Cyr Wrote:  

(11-11-2014 11:50 AM)civpro Wrote:  

Do not listen to Giovonny's diet advice, it is pure broscience. 'Clean foods' and meal timing don't matter, it's Calories In Calories Out at the end of the day.

I have to disagree with you.
Firstly, there are some foods that fill you up more than others, even if you eat the same amount. If he eats foods which aren't very filling relative to their calorie content, it will be easier to gain weight.

Second of all, Phoenix is not just trying to gain weight. He is trying to put on quality mass. If he was only concerned with changing the reading on his scale, then calories in vs out would be the main thing. However he wants to gain muscle, so should eat foods that are conducive to doing so.

Finally, meal timing obviously matters. You would have a harder time gaining weight if you only ate one meal a day, as you would fill up and be unable to physically eat more, vs 4+ meals per day. One of the reasons fat people get fat is because they are always snacking (having more meals per day).

You are referring to satiety. Whether you eat chicken breasts spread out through the day or eat a big ol pizza at once, it does not make a difference for body composition for as long as you in a caloric surplus and hitting a protein minimum (>100g), you will makes gains.

Lean meats like chicken breasts are more psychologically satiating so in fact a diet based around them is better for a fat guy losing weight than a skinny guy trying to gain. A skinny guy would be better off eating lots of peanut butter sandwiches, cheap n easy, 350 cals each.

[jimukr104]

By not telling us your height, weight,age and suspected bone structure it will almost be impossible to help you.
For example Brad Pitt was linked but we all know his height, weight and that he is an ectomorph.

For fight club knowing he was an ectomorph they used a diet /program to cut him up. He went from 165lbs to 155lbs for that movie. That is right..he lost weight. Also your limbs most likely won't grow as much as your chest,back and shoulders. These questions are relevant.

Age is important because if your pass 35 no one should be telling you to EAT A LOT since your metabolism will be slowing down and you can fuck up your body if you take in to many calories. It becomes hard enough keeping fat off after 40..trust me.

[Sturmgeist]

(11-10-2014 06:02 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

Before bed is a good time to get some slow burning protein (casein) e.g cottage cheese. Whey isn't optimal then.

Peanut Butter is good too. Calorie dense, decent fats and supposedly slow acting protein.