[Cobra]

I felt a bit mindfucked after writing this article for Bojangles' 3 Bromigos site (in a constructively postive way). Link here: http://the3bromigos.com/2014/10/22/insid...ndian-man/

Bojangles and Roosh both gave me a go ahead to post here to share with the community. Posting in the "game" section since it mostly deals with Inner Game.

Comments are more than welcome, but please be constructive. Trolls on the other hand, are not; I don't want this to turn into a IRT/race thread. I'm sure neither do the moderators.

Quote:

Inside the Prejudices of an Indian Man

This article is part of a collaboration with Bojangles to explore the Indian psyche and help Indian men in the manosphere. This initial article will be mostly conceptual and theoretical but I’ll delve into more practical items later.

As Indian men, are we so different from other kind of men? Or do we think of ourselves that way? Specifically, are we as Indians above a certain group of people? Are we below them? What makes us so great? If not, what makes everyone else so great?

Are we above a certain group of people?

Our ancestors were great in certain aspects due to certain accomplishments, period. They created great structures and even civilizations, even though most people know very little about them. At least the Taj Mahal is front and center. The fuckers even fought off the British till their last breath in various altercations, some violent, others non-violent. They also gave the world flavor, through their food and culture. Yoga is but one example. Curry is another. A lot of this, the western world doesn’t really marvel at like they marvel at maybe Roman architecture or Italian food.

Now do yourself a favor and fast forward hundreds of years to where you are. Look YOURSELF in the mirror. Are you proud because all of the shit I mentioned in the previous paragraph that your ancestors accomplished? Or is it because of all of the shit that YOU actually accomplished? While your mughal ancestors built the Taj Mahal, you could be getting an engineering degree and building an awesome building in the middle of NYC. Did you? Are you shooting for it? Your ancestors fought off the British, sometimes tooth and nail. Are you going to the gym and busting your ass to get in top shape so you can defend yourself, your loved ones and weaker ones? Are you physically walking with a sense of purpose?

Are you better because of what your ancestors did or because you are making your ancestors proud by what YOU did? Think about it. I know who you are.

Are we below a certain group of people?

You are below people only if you THINK so. Do you think people look down at you because of your skin color? Maybe because you smell like curry? Or maybe you dress like the majority of Indian people that live in the Indian subcontinent? Or maybe it’s because you think you have bad genes so you’re not muscular like all those white guys? There are a myriad many factors as to why people don’t like someone. These things I mentioned are the “Indian” factors. That being said, it’s some heavy shit and I fully acknowledge, appreciate and understand each of them. These exact questions play on in the heads of a lot of Indian guys whether they care to admit it or not.

It’s in our subconscious, for some more deeply ingrained than others. As most men do, we keep our ego intact by not admitting it. It’s a shitty combination because we not only have the ego that all men have, but on top of that we have eastern social programming keeping it intact and in place until we rip it apart. A shitty combination indeed, but not impossible at all to manage if you want to.

Now let’s unravel this. Is your skin color so bad? Who said it was? Other Indian people? Or was it white people? Maybe the black people did? Indian people are sometimes the worst company for other Indian people because they perpetuate common inferior notions about themselves amongst each other. Skin color just happens to be one. This instills and reinforces the opinions as facts that in fact get deeply ingrained and difficult to break apart.

The first part of the solution is GET AWAY from these people. RUN as fast as you can. I don’t care if it’s your cousin, your dad, or you mom. GET the fuck away. Next, meet others who are different from you. Get out of your comfort zone of Indians. It’s simple, but try other kinds of food too and other activities. And be genuine with others just like you would with your Indian friends. Genuine interaction is something that is covered well by MikeCF at Danger & Play.

And progressively over time, START picturing what a masculine man is. Then, BE THAT MAN. Don’t focus on things like color of your skin because people honestly don’t give a fuck about it. If they do, it’s fine but if they do in a negative way they are truly scum; get away from them.

Another way to instill positive focus is working out and looking good. Exercising will ingrain in you that you look the way you do because of sheer EFFORT, not people’s shitty opinions and your social programming. You will start to SEE yourself from a positive light. Coordinate clothing colors with your skin complexion. BE THAT MAN.

At the end of the day, are you below anyone else because your social programming tells you or because of your own EFFORT?

What makes us so great?

You’re saying now, Oh Cobra, you just said we’re not above or below anyone and to accomplish things. But why is it so much easier for some guys to accomplish things. White guys do well in sports naturally and they are natural with those cute white girls. Why can’t Indian guys do that? I wish I was that way. I wish I was natural.

You are natural. Yes, social programming has fucked you, but you are indeed natural my brown friend. The question is how do you tap into your inner Indian programming in a positive way. Now this can be a whole topic in and of itself. However, the key is to be as social with others as you are with your own Indian friends and family. For example you fuck around with your cousin, but why don’t you do that with you white friend. It’s called frame. Maintain a consistency with your frame as much as possible and you will be rewarded. Few examples below.

Say you go out, once with a good white friend and once with a good Indian friend. Assume you BELIEVE in paying for someone you’re with (lot of Indians, including me, do). With the Indian friend, you fight for who pays the bill when you have drinks as you both want to pay. However with the white friend, you split the bill and each pays separate. Think about this. Are you doing it to assimilate into his frame because you believe in it more than your own? Or would it be better to tell him what you believe and offer to pay. The latter response is more honest and genuine but you’d be surprised how often this situation plays out as the former.

Another great one is music. We Indians do have some great dance music but when it comes to a dance floor situation with other race people, we don’t share our music. If you like it, share it, and show those white boys and girls how we go down. Don’t hold back , assimilating into someone else’s frame because of preconceived notions that their frame is better. Share and be rewarded.

Not to beat this up but, I had all of these problems I noted. My way of GETTING AWAY was through joining the U.S. Navy out of the blue. A bold move for an 18 year old skinny ass Indian kid. I went to training (boot camp). I swear, every night before lights out, I used to sit on my bunk with my legs crossed Indian style with my hands held together and eyes closed and meditated to the hindu gods. People respected that shit. And they asked me about it all the time. Point is, I wasn’t afraid to do that.

My point is, don’t change your belief system because you think others have a better one. Maybe they do but if you believe in your own belief system without having pre-conceived notions about others’ belief systems, tell them about it. And listen to theirs, and compare and contrast. They will respect you for that. It’s about being genuine, not about being Indian or not. Just be true to who you are.

What makes others so great?

In the above section, I focused on YOU primarily. This section is for focus on OTHERS. I mentioned that you should listen to others. Yes, you should but don’t fall into the Indian “culture trap.”

How many times have you just had a conversation where you mention you’re Indian and people jump on and say something along the lines of “Oh, India, I love hindu gods … Taj Mahal… curry” and you then proceed to jump on THAT fucking bandwagon by actually telling them more about all those topics. Now, instead becoming an Indian man, you became an Indian tour guide, aka “clown.” If you do know the intricacies of the different spices that make up a good curry, fine, but otherwise, back the fuck off. You are creating a false perception in others that you are defined by Indian culture only and not by your own accomplishments. It will fuck up your chances with any social circle you are building, not to mention girls.

A great way to deflect would be something like “Oh yeah, I grew up inside the Taj Mahal, raised by the local monkeys.” That’ll get people to ground themselves.

Then you can have a real conversation and ask about where they grew up. Depending on what you hear, draw upon similar experiences in your past to relate to that person or tell them how different your experiences were by starting off with “wow that’s interesting because I had a completely different experience.” You can also ask them “tell me more about xxx, that sounds amazing.”

Additionally, throw in some “that must have felt yyyyy.” Credit to Danger & Play for these.

Summary

As an Indian man, but foremost as a man, don’t rest on your ancestors’ laurels. Build your own experiences. Meet other people. Learn about them and learn from them. Be genuine with others, and get to know them at a deeper level by comparing and contrasting your experiences. There are some cool people out there. Open them up. And show them how cool you are. Be proud of who YOU are as an Indian man, not who others were as Indian men.

[future]

As an Indian guy living in Canada for the last 6 years, I can say that this is good advice for Indian dudes.

If I had to emphasize on one piece of advice, it would be to expand your circle to non-brown people. Most of my Indian friends live in their own Indian cliques and never learn about other cultures. This would be fine if the Indian culture contained bits of wisdom about getting laid, but most of Indian culture is bluer than blue pill and that doesn't help.

[Merenguero]

Cobra:
I doubt you have to worry about this becoming an "IRT thread." I think the forum has progressed to the point that Indian trolls are mostly a thing of the past.

[civpro]

Hi. I know that the user Bojangle is very well respected here so I might be rocking the boat with what I'm about to say but fuck it, as an ethnic guy myself who chases after white pussy, I'm gonna say straight up that this Woo Woo, inner game "let go of your apprehensions and complexes", "abandon toxic mindsets", "embrace the Alpha within you", La Di Da type of advice is limited in usefulness.

Newsflash: Girls are racist as fuck and in general shallow as fuck, regardless. They don't give a shit that you're a "self actualized man" or whatever on the "inside" lol. What's needed instead is concrete, actionable advise to make yourself more ATTRACTIVE - attractive enough to transcend the racial handicap on a sufficient scale.

[kaotic]

I don't really have a sense of being a proud indian/pakistani because I was born and raised here, not to mention I've been completely whitewashed, granted I know the history.

I've always been the guy whose open to meeting other people, I'm an extrovert now (was the complete opposite) I try to keep an open mind as well.

One thing I did in the past (especially after 9/11) was prempt any racist jokes or pokes by using them on myself or making a joke towards a friend. This way everyone was at ease and anyone who had negative connatations on my race were made to laugh.

I DON'T do that anymore, I just play myself as very sociable, making red pilled jokes, and keeping it cocky/funny.

It's all about how you game and seeing the signs a girl is into you in the end.

[bojangles]

(11-06-2014 12:44 PM)civpro Wrote:  

Hi. I know that the user Bojangle is very well respected here so I might be rocking the boat with what I'm about to say but fuck it, as an ethnic guy myself who chases after white pussy, I'm gonna say straight up that this Woo Woo, inner game "let go of your apprehensions and complexes", "abandon toxic mindsets", "embrace the Alpha within you", La Di Da type of advice is limited in usefulness.

Newsflash: Girls are racist as fuck and in general shallow as fuck, regardless. They don't give a shit that you're a "self actualized man" or whatever on the "inside" lol. What's needed instead is concrete, actionable advise to make yourself more ATTRACTIVE - attractive enough to transcend the racial handicap on a sufficient scale.

I didn't write the post, Cobra wrote it.

[future]

(11-06-2014 12:44 PM)civpro Wrote:  

Newsflash: Girls are racist as fuck and in general shallow as fuck, regardless. They don't give a shit that you're a "self actualized man" or whatever on the "inside" lol. What's needed instead is concrete, actionable advise to make yourself more ATTRACTIVE - attractive enough to transcend the racial handicap on a sufficient scale.

All of that is true, but good inner game increases confidence and hence attractiveness and I think that's the point of this post.

[Cobra]

@civpro, I have no idea what your background is. Maybe it’ll help me understand your thought process better if I did.

A lot of apprehension and toxic mindsets are built in through social programming, Indian included. Asian men are another group where this hits hard. My point is that when social programming is so much in contrast to what your current environment requires, there are INHERENT issues that need to be consciously addressed. I did provide some practical tips to initially address it to just get on an EVEN KEEL. That even KEEL is more internal than you think for a lot of guys. Yes, there are girls that don’t even care and are shallow and racist but that’s not all girls or the ones that are can maybe even still become open at some point. It does help to stay positive and I don’t think assuming the negative as a general rule helps us get dates or laid.

If I’m “assuming” girls don’t like my type, how is that EXTERNAL attractiveness going to present itself? How is THAT approach going to go?

External is different. It’s easier to control. Lot of guys can achieve an even keel through this, but not ALL guys. For example, I can suit up and look amazing and girls will give me eye contact and even fuck me eyes. I can go to the gym and build myself up and have physical presence. I can walk with an IDGAF attitude. I do all these things and can give you advice about all of it. But that’s easy to do and there are a lot of resources out there anyways to address these without me going into them. I’ve followed them myself to get where I am and continue to do so. My goal is to address different topics and that’s why I’m teaming with Bojangles to write these articles.

kaotic is actually a great example of a member who does not have THESE inner issues as he grew up in a different environment. His perception of his own attractiveness, therefore, is going to be different from an Indian or Asian guy that moved to the U.S. when he was 18 and has only been here for a year. Starkly different. So how is THAT approach going to go?

I’m glad we’re having these discussions and I’m also glad bojangles and Roosh give me the opportunity to be more open about it instead of ignoring it. But I don’t know, it may not be the time and maybe not enough people benefit from stuff like this.

[TheSlayer]

Both civpro and cobra have a point. Some girls won't like your type and there's nothing you can do about it. Cobra's post is more helpful for the people with the IRT mindset or any ethnic guy with bad game that approaches a white girl, gets rejected and then goes online and starts race trolling. "Why do white girls hate Indian men?" "Why don't white girls find Indian men attractive" and then we get IRTs trolling online.

Look, when you are approaching girls of other races (white or not) there's always a chance she's not going to be interested in you no matter what but Cobra's post can at least help a couple of IRTs with the inner game problems and they can move towards learning better game (which is where civpro has a point).

[Comte De St. Germain]

I can attest that a lot of the racial bias is actually a mental block through the example of one of my closest friends whom happens to be Indian. The guy is literally a Euro guy in his style(jackets, peacoats, polos, nice loafers, and black jeans), arrogant to an extreme(including in his extremely liberal beliefs to the point where we are arguing each other tooth and nail), hits the gym everyday(slim but way buffer than me), amateur director, and consistently bangs blonde haired Scandinavian looking or WASP sorority sluts.

If a guy can just change his mindset and body he can change his lifestyle and game. This guy is my literal motivation to keep trying harder and make no excuses regardless of background. He's a smug cunt but the dude is set in his lifestyle, body, and mentality making us such close friends.

[WalterBlack]

I think the article is specific to maybe US Indian guys and FOB Indian guys in the US? I've never come across British-Indian men with these issues.

My comment from the IRT thread

Quote:

I get the sense that in the US that Indians are seen as “other” so it’s a bit harder for them to fit in..then again that’s not an acceptable excuse. I know Indian-American guys who do very well with women.

In the UK they been there for a few generations now so they’re pretty mainstream. In fact Indian food is so normal in the UK that British pubs in Los Angeles have Indian food on the menu.

(11-06-2014 04:53 PM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

Both civpro and cobra have a point. Some girls won't like your type and there's nothing you can do about it. Cobra's post is more helpful for the people with the IRT mindset or any ethnic guy with bad game that approaches a white girl, gets rejected and then goes online and starts race trolling. "Why do white girls hate Indian men?" "Why don't white girls find Indian men attractive" and then we get IRTs trolling online.

Look, when you are approaching girls of other races (white or not) there's always a chance she's not going to be interested in you no matter what but Cobra's post can at least help a couple of IRTs with the inner game problems and they can move towards learning better game (which is where civpro has a point).

I think an issue is that in the US white women are pedestalised, and this can feed into the mindset of both US born Indians and FOB Indians. In the UK white women are not pedestalised at all, since they’re the majority. In fact, some brown guys there just use them for sex and then marry brown girls.

Even amongst Indian men a woman's preference can depend what kind of Indian man he is. I’ve come across women who are not into Indian men at all (as in FOB guys from India), but are fine with me “because I’m not really Indian”, due to me being UK born and raised.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(11-06-2014 05:43 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

Even amongst Indian men a woman's preference can depend what kind of Indian man he is. I’ve come across women who are not into Indian men at all (as in FOB guys from India), but are fine with me “because I’m not really Indian”, due to me being UK born and raised.

Euro minded or Americanized Indian guys tend to lack the IRT mentality and I've seen many date outside their race especially those that hit the gym.

[TheSlayer]

(11-06-2014 05:43 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  

I think an issue is that in the US white women are pedestalised, and this can feed into the mindset of both US born Indians and FOB Indians. In the UK white women are not pedestalised at all, since they’re the majority. In fact, some brown guys there just use them for sex and then marry brown girls.

Even amongst Indian men a woman's preference can depend what kind of Indian man he is. I’ve come across women who are not into Indian men at all (as in FOB guys from India), but are fine with me “because I’m not really Indian”, due to me being UK born and raised.

Yeah, I tend to agree with this. The moment you put a girl or girls of one race on a pedestal, it's game over. I also agree that this seems to be more of a US thing. In Canada, I see Indian FOB guys who keep to other Indians only but I also see a lot of Indian guys who are integrated into mainstream society (basically not as many IRTs here as I see US members talking about in the US).

[Saladin]

I think Indian(and East Asian) social conditioning is pretty bad. Lot of Indian guys are brought up as mama's boys. That's an incredibly unattractive trait to women.

I started doing much better after I broke away from that, thankfully I've had it way better than most Indians, despite spending a lot of time in India growing up. Probably because my family is more open minded. But man, I see other Indian or Asian kids with parents who absolutely destroy their self esteem and individuality. Its fucked up.

Also, I don't get IRTs obsession with white girls. I think it speaks of an inferiority complex or something similar. A hot girl is a hot girl, regardless of her background.

I'd say 90 percent of Indian guys out there are absolutely horrible with women, and the FOB guys are especially bad and creepy. A girl I banged recently told me I was "different" from all the other creepy Indian dudes.... Indian culture sucks, and creates guys who have no social skills. Hence why I actively distance myself from those traits, which is working quite well for me.

But to say girls don't like Indian or Asian guys? That's just bullshit and creates a limiting perception in guys minds. Girls like attractive guys, if you're a boss who's fit, dresses well, and has a great vibe girls will like you.

Also, if you hang around with a lot of other Indian dudes, especially FOBs you're doing it wrong. I don't know a single cool Indian guy who hangs out with mostly Indian friends.

[kaotic]

Yeah that racial schema in a man's head will CRIPPLE him.

But this has been BEATEN to death in the IRT thread. (Regarding white girls, FOB mentality, etc).

[future]

(11-06-2014 06:05 PM)Saladin Wrote:  

I think Indian(and East Asian) social conditioning is pretty bad. Lot of Indian guys are brought up as mama's boys. That's an incredibly unattractive trait to women.

When I was going to college, I remember my mom telling me about this bullshit quote by Gandhi that said something about staying away from alcohol and girls. I laughed at it and told her I was not going to follow it.

This kind of upbringing is popular in India. Spending the first 18-20 years of life thinking celibacy is noble is I think one of the reasons why many Indian guys suck with women.

[Kaizen]

Generally speaking Indian guys are less desired by girls than any other race

That said, some of the best players I've ever met were Indian/south Asian

Moral of the story being your individuality is thankfully far more important than your race.

The average Indian guy struggles for good reason: his style is whack, he is not socially adjusted, he has a belly and only hangs with his own.

Don't be one of those guys

[speakeasy]

(11-06-2014 05:39 PM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

I can attest that a lot of the racial bias is actually a mental block through the example of one of my closest friends whom happens to be Indian. The guy is literally a Euro guy in his style(jackets, peacoats, polos, nice loafers, and black jeans), arrogant to an extreme(including in his extremely liberal beliefs to the point where we are arguing each other tooth and nail), hits the gym everyday(slim but way buffer than me), amateur director, and consistently bangs blonde haired Scandinavian looking or WASP sorority sluts.

But what type of Indian guy was he? Indians vary in looks tremendously. Was he this type:




Or was he this type?



I could see the first type of dude being able to get pretty much any type of girl. The 2nd type of Indian is going to struggle.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(11-06-2014 08:14 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(11-06-2014 05:39 PM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

I can attest that a lot of the racial bias is actually a mental block through the example of one of my closest friends whom happens to be Indian. The guy is literally a Euro guy in his style(jackets, peacoats, polos, nice loafers, and black jeans), arrogant to an extreme(including in his extremely liberal beliefs to the point where we are arguing each other tooth and nail), hits the gym everyday(slim but way buffer than me), amateur director, and consistently bangs blonde haired Scandinavian looking or WASP sorority sluts.

But what type of Indian guy was he? Indians vary in looks tremendously. Was he this type:




Or was he this type?



I could see the first type of dude being able to get pretty much any type of girl. The 2nd type of Indian is going to struggle.

2nd type level skin but he styled himself to look like type 1

[Deluge]

Actually speakeasy it's better to be dark if you're Indian than light. Light skinned Indians get mistaken for Muslim/Pakistani too easily and most IRT behaviour comes from people from those parts of India because they're the poorest and most traditional. So people assocate light brown Indians with worse behaviour. Masculine looking dark Indians get some black guy cool bonus points without the negative stereotypes, fear or judgement from friends and family. Sometimes girl's visiting from countries without many (dark) Indian's actually mistake them for black, I don't know how... I see a lot more dark Indians with white girls than light even with FOB's and there are a lot of Indians here.

[future]

On a slightly unrelated note, I want to know how Indian guys perform online. I tried Tinder for a month once and had horrible results. I blamed it on my race and moved on to real world game.

I didn't really optimize my pictures, so it's not very clear if it was a race thing or not. I might try it again some time in future if I am convinced it's worth the effort.

[future]

(11-07-2014 12:55 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

Actually speakeasy it's better to be dark if you're Indian than light. Light skinned Indians get mistaken for Muslim/Pakistani too easily and most IRT behaviour comes from people from those parts of India because they're the poorest and most traditional. So people assocate light brown Indians with worse behaviour. Masculine looking dark Indians get some black guy cool bonus points without the negative stereotypes, fear or judgement from friends and family. Sometimes girl's visiting from countries without many (dark) Indian's actually mistake them for black, I don't know how... I see a lot more dark Indians with white girls than light even with FOB's and there are a lot of Indians here.

I don't think this is true. I might be wrong, but I don't think being Muslim affects your game. In fact, middle eastern guys perform better than Indian guys on average.

[Deluge]

(11-07-2014 01:46 AM)future Wrote:  

(11-07-2014 12:55 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

Actually speakeasy it's better to be dark if you're Indian than light. Light skinned Indians get mistaken for Muslim/Pakistani too easily and most IRT behaviour comes from people from those parts of India because they're the poorest and most traditional. So people assocate light brown Indians with worse behaviour. Masculine looking dark Indians get some black guy cool bonus points without the negative stereotypes, fear or judgement from friends and family. Sometimes girl's visiting from countries without many (dark) Indian's actually mistake them for black, I don't know how... I see a lot more dark Indians with white girls than light even with FOB's and there are a lot of Indians here.

I don't think this is true. I might be wrong, but I don't think being Muslim affects your game. In fact, middle eastern guys perform better than Indian guys on average.

In Canada maybe it's different. Being Muslim isn't going to win you any favours in Australia and according to other members it's worse in Europe. There's no stigma dating an Asian or Indian guy here, people will assume their beta etc. unless they look good and most lower class women won't be open to them but that's the extent of it. People like having these groups immigrate here, they're spread out evenly across the cities and young white people in the cities grew up with them from kindergarden. None of this is so for Muslims. You don't see many Middle Eastern looking guys with white girls.

[Sebastian]

Second guy has an ethic feature at extreme level.

It's not just about women. He will face many issues living in 'western' countries.

For examples, you will see a good number of guys like him at a bar, restaurant or whatever the public place. do you want to hang out there even as a guy?
How about he messages you privately 'hey let's grab a beer', would you go out?
people wouldn't like to talk about this kind of thing. they all just claim 'we like diversity' but let's be honest.
We don't have to analyze deep. that's the reason right there.

(11-06-2014 08:14 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(11-06-2014 05:39 PM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

I can attest that a lot of the racial bias is actually a mental block through the example of one of my closest friends whom happens to be Indian. The guy is literally a Euro guy in his style(jackets, peacoats, polos, nice loafers, and black jeans), arrogant to an extreme(including in his extremely liberal beliefs to the point where we are arguing each other tooth and nail), hits the gym everyday(slim but way buffer than me), amateur director, and consistently bangs blonde haired Scandinavian looking or WASP sorority sluts.

But what type of Indian guy was he? Indians vary in looks tremendously. Was he this type:




Or was he this type?



I could see the first type of dude being able to get pretty much any type of girl. The 2nd type of Indian is going to struggle.

[Deluge]

What I'm saying might not make sense right after looking at those pictures. The first guy is a very good looking actor with green eyes (which 99% of full blood Indians have). The second guy is ugly.

Let's compare the by far most common North and South Indian population's in the English speaking world, Punjabi's and Tamil's, using two good looking celebrities.

Jay Sean, Punjabi


The dude from Heroes, Tamil


Both are good looking guys who'll kill it but Jay Sean will make some girls think of Muslims and all their bad behaviour: rolling in packs hollering at girls with no game and being gropey. The dude from Heroes get's none of that, plus "beautiful chocolate man" points all-round plus love from black girls and even many of the white girl's who have a black guy fetish. Dudes like speakeasy's first pic who are super pale with green/blue eyes are so rare they're unicorns, there's only a sizable absolute amount because India has more than a billion people, they're not even worth discussing. So unless they're mixed race (Indian-White mixes usually come out passing for white even if the Indian side is dark), than an Indian is an Indian, the skin tone isn't the issue for girls who are closed off but being Indian itself. For Indian guys (and Asian guys too but for different reasons) it's better to be darker for white girls.



Also, Kaizen has it wrong Asian guys have it harder. With Indian men their problems are cultural, by the time they're 3rd generation 99% of their problems go away. This is why when do you see a FOB Indian with a white girl she's almost always an immigrant from Southern or Eastern Europe so their traditional cultures have more in common. With Asians though, their situation does improve with each generation but their core problems with passivity and shyness don't go away, but there's a decent improvement with the Eurasian mixes, I suspect the prevalence of these traits for Asians isn't cultural but genetic. This is more true for Chinese/Korean/Japanese guys then South East Asian's who are more alpha, hence why so many guys were saying Julien could never get away with his Tokyo behaviour in Bangkok in the RSD thread.