[Andreas]

So here is one of the things i think i may have done wrong.Since i discovered game i was turning 99% of my attention to girls, i wanted to become better with them and feel more energetic when im around them instead of being shy. Im proud of how far i've gone with that but i lost almost all my friends and it's hard for me to connect with them or make any new. I just don't feel so good around other guys and maybe too concious or insecure. I can't open a fucking convo with them, it's so damn hard and when i approach girls i'm all by myself in the group entertainig the group and running game very smoothly now (after failing a lot in the past). I may have 2-3 close friends now, not more and i dont think i want to make more

[solo]

I'd rather have girls and no friends than the other way around. Of course it's preferrable to have both if they don't cockblock you. 2-3 close friends seem alright to me, good interesting friends are hard to come by. I hear you because some of my friends aren't at all willing to go places where girls are so hanging out with them will divert me from my goals in life unfortunately. They think game is bullshit and that all you have to do is be yourself (need I mention they average about 1 lay every three years). Having said that friends can sometimes unconsciously get you girls through just going out and social circle, but you shouldn't be dependent on that.

[Gringo]

Girls are easy to come by, good proper friends not so much so. Don't fuck things over with all your mates for the sake of some sex.

[Andreas]

@Gringo: yes that was my main point.

@solo: I only talk to 2-3 close friends even if they dont know game which for me its something special but it gets annoying when they ask advice and tell them to visit a site that teaches game but they prefer to hear me saying because the material is a lot. They slowly apply it without knowing it sometimes. Those are the only kind of guys who i can connect to.

My point is, being able to befriend both guys and girls is a good feeling but when it comes to meeting people i prefer girl because i can make relationships and cover some of my needs so advantages of meeting girls outweight the advantages of meeting guys

[Gmac]

(04-12-2011 03:13 AM)Andreas Wrote:  

So here is one of the things i think i may have done wrong.Since i discovered game i was turning 99% of my attention to girls, i wanted to become better with them and feel more energetic when im around them instead of being shy. Im proud of how far i've gone with that but i lost almost all my friends and it's hard for me to connect with them or make any new. I just don't feel so good around other guys and maybe too concious or insecure. I can't open a fucking convo with them, it's so damn hard and when i approach girls i'm all by myself in the group entertainig the group and running game very smoothly now (after failing a lot in the past). I may have 2-3 close friends now, not more and i dont think i want to make more

You just have to separate the two. Since I've been rolling with VK and Rookie, nightlife is actually fun again. My other friends just don't get it, don't care, or don't approve. I basically feel like I live two different lives... If you wanna roll with other guys they need to be as into women and game as you (not mandatory, just works better).

That aside, I've only ever had a few good friends. Sadly, most of them are extremely beta and have no desire/capacity to learn game. If I thought I could show them the "light" I would.

[thegmanifesto]

"Im proud of how far i've gone with that but i lost almost all my friends"

Not sure I follow. You started getting girls and lost all your friends? Why?

"I may have 2-3 close friends now"

That is 2-3 more than most people have. And all you really need.

Hell, I would take one real friend over 40 fakers any day.

[Caligula]

(04-12-2011 07:54 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

(04-12-2011 03:13 AM)Andreas Wrote:  

So here is one of the things i think i may have done wrong.Since i discovered game i was turning 99% of my attention to girls, i wanted to become better with them and feel more energetic when im around them instead of being shy. Im proud of how far i've gone with that but i lost almost all my friends and it's hard for me to connect with them or make any new. I just don't feel so good around other guys and maybe too concious or insecure. I can't open a fucking convo with them, it's so damn hard and when i approach girls i'm all by myself in the group entertainig the group and running game very smoothly now (after failing a lot in the past). I may have 2-3 close friends now, not more and i dont think i want to make more

You just have to separate the two. Since I've been rolling with VK and Rookie, nightlife is actually fun again. My other friends just don't get it, don't care, or don't approve. I basically feel like I live two different lives... If you wanna roll with other guys they need to be as into women and game as you (not mandatory, just works better).

That aside, I've only ever had a few good friends. Sadly, most of them are extremely beta and have no desire/capacity to learn game. If I thought I could show them the "light" I would.

This is exactly it.

Either go out with friends who can wing you properly or go out solo. I have exactly one friend who completely gets it and who I am comfortable winging with.

Do other things with your friends who do not get it. I'll throw dinners and only invite guy friends. I'll go to sports games with them etc. I rarely even talk about game or girls with some of my closest friends; the first principles from which we're working are just too far apart.

Occasionally they'll come to me for advice, then get vaguely offended when I point out their mistake or suggest solutions that don't fit into their world view. It's no big deal and no reason to abandon an otherwise good friendship.

[Samseau]

I couldn't disagree more that women are better than male friends. Women are dumb, irreverent, and disloyal. I always have a blast with my friends. That said, I don't go out with them very much because they do not run game, but should we decide to have a get-together somewhere cool I am down to meet them, even if its on a Sat night.

The best way to make friends with guys is very similar to how you pick up chicks; just keep talking to a lot of them until you find some guys who you click with. I've actually made some decent friends right through the bar scene and meeting locals. It's not very hard if you enjoy the company of men.

In fact, here we are, on a forum of pretty much nothing but men...

[Andreas]

@GManifesto: "Not sure I follow. You started getting girls and lost all your friends? Why?"

i was talking about how far i've gone with girls but focusing on getting better with girls made me lose a lot of friends.

@Caligula: "Occasionally they'll come to me for advice, then get vaguely offended when I point out their mistake or suggest solutions that don't fit into their world view. It's no big deal and no reason to abandon an otherwise good friendship. "

it's so true that happened to me also. I just can't believe what they do sometimes and it's beyond rediculus.

"Do other things with your friends who do not get it"

Tried it and works fine with those close friends i have.

I'm very young now so i'm only given the opportunity to travel and not do it alone so i can't conclude that in future i will be staying with only 2-3 friends.thanks for replies btw

[Moma]

(04-12-2011 09:37 AM)Andreas Wrote:  

@GManifesto: "Not sure I follow. You started getting girls and lost all your friends? Why?"

i was talking about how far i've gone with girls but focusing on getting better with girls made me lose a lot of friends.

@Caligula: "Occasionally they'll come to me for advice, then get vaguely offended when I point out their mistake or suggest solutions that don't fit into their world view. It's no big deal and no reason to abandon an otherwise good friendship. "

it's so true that happened to me also. I just can't believe what they do sometimes and it's beyond rediculus.

"Do other things with your friends who do not get it"

Tried it and works fine with those close friends i have.

I'm very young now so i'm only given the opportunity to travel and not do it alone so i can't conclude that in future i will be staying with only 2-3 friends.thanks for replies btw

Sometimes the people you think are your friends aren't really your friends at all. They are happy seeing you with a weak lifestyle so they can feel better about yourself. The moment you step up, these parasites will disappear in a flurry.

So it's best you sifted out those leeches in an early stage before you entered a moment where you really needed someone and found that they let you down in a moment of crisis.

[thegmanifesto]

(04-12-2011 12:10 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(04-12-2011 09:37 AM)Andreas Wrote:  

@GManifesto: "Not sure I follow. You started getting girls and lost all your friends? Why?"

i was talking about how far i've gone with girls but focusing on getting better with girls made me lose a lot of friends.

@Caligula: "Occasionally they'll come to me for advice, then get vaguely offended when I point out their mistake or suggest solutions that don't fit into their world view. It's no big deal and no reason to abandon an otherwise good friendship. "

it's so true that happened to me also. I just can't believe what they do sometimes and it's beyond rediculus.

"Do other things with your friends who do not get it"

Tried it and works fine with those close friends i have.

I'm very young now so i'm only given the opportunity to travel and not do it alone so i can't conclude that in future i will be staying with only 2-3 friends.thanks for replies btw

Sometimes the people you think are your friends aren't really your friends at all. They are happy seeing you with a weak lifestyle so they can feel better about yourself. The moment you step up, these parasites will disappear in a flurry.

So it's best you sifted out those leeches in an early stage before you entered a moment where you really needed someone and found that they let you down in a moment of crisis.

Excellent comment. My thoughts exactly.

[Chad Daring]

There's a big difference between friends and "guys you hang out with" The ones you lost were "guys you hangout with" the ones that have seen and accepted you for who you've become those are your friends. Friends dont just up and quit on you, especially because you've made a change for the better.

[Duke Castile]

I don't see that the two things have to be in conflict (having and running game vs having male friends). In fact, I would argue that making friends should be easier for you. I'm in agreement with Samseau that you need to cultivate your friendships by occasionally going to a non-gaming atmosphere. Sometimes breaks from game actually makes your game stronger. Also I'm in agreement with Chad that chances are great that the guys that are no longer on the radar weren't much good as true friends anyway. Either way, the "take it or leave it" mentality should be part of your inner game in both instances. After all, you're the one who's stuck with you.

[Gringo]

Quote:

I don't see that the two things have to be in conflict (having and running game vs having male friends).

Same, it should be completely possible to have good friends even if they have different interests and outlooks on life than than you (i.e. game). People are acting as if they have to chose between game and everything else in their life.

[glassjawed]

(04-12-2011 02:46 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(04-12-2011 12:10 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(04-12-2011 09:37 AM)Andreas Wrote:  

@GManifesto: "Not sure I follow. You started getting girls and lost all your friends? Why?"

i was talking about how far i've gone with girls but focusing on getting better with girls made me lose a lot of friends.

@Caligula: "Occasionally they'll come to me for advice, then get vaguely offended when I point out their mistake or suggest solutions that don't fit into their world view. It's no big deal and no reason to abandon an otherwise good friendship. "

it's so true that happened to me also. I just can't believe what they do sometimes and it's beyond rediculus.

"Do other things with your friends who do not get it"

Tried it and works fine with those close friends i have.

I'm very young now so i'm only given the opportunity to travel and not do it alone so i can't conclude that in future i will be staying with only 2-3 friends.thanks for replies btw

Sometimes the people you think are your friends aren't really your friends at all. They are happy seeing you with a weak lifestyle so they can feel better about yourself. The moment you step up, these parasites will disappear in a flurry.

So it's best you sifted out those leeches in an early stage before you entered a moment where you really needed someone and found that they let you down in a moment of crisis.

Excellent comment. My thoughts exactly.

I agree with this as well. As you become more socially aware, you begin to see many people as they really are and unfortunately, many of them are only haters, takers, or dirtbags.

Also, people change. If you´re a successful person, you´ll eventually notice that the only real people who do not secretly despise you for doing something well are the ones who are too busy being successful themselves and have their own shit to worry about.

[Andreas]

(04-12-2011 08:26 PM)Gringo Wrote:  

Quote:

I don't see that the two things have to be in conflict (having and running game vs having male friends).

Same, it should be completely possible to have good friends even if they have different interests and outlooks on life than than you (i.e. game). People are acting as if they have to chose between game and everything else in their life.

Unfortunately i turned too much focus on game because it improves relationship with women on a big scale and influnces all other areas of my life so far. I learned the hard way what you said, i quited gym, didn't pay a lot of attention to close true friends which now im trying to recover and goes very well.

Well i have to say those other points made above by other members sum up guy friends and game. Again, thanks a lot for the advice

[hydrogonian]

Fact #1: Having friends is a nice thing.

Fact #2: No female will ever make as good a friend as any of your good males friends will. Its a mistake to think even 'cool' females can provide anything close to the role as a good male friend can. They just aren't wired that way. Even if one in 10,000 is, they are just too rare to count.

Plus, no girl that you ever want to fuck will ever be a real friend if she knows that you want to fuck her. Conversely, no girl that wants to fuck you wants to be your friend. She wants to fuck or be your girlfriend ( ie: gain value or resources - goals that aren't conducive to real friendship)

Ironically, in my early twenties, I used to make the mistake that certain women wanted to hang out with me as friends. So I'd hang out with them because I thought them cool enough to be friends. What would up happening is that these girls thought I wanted to fuck them, and what I though was 'friends hanging out' they thought of as dates. I would do shit like show up in my most casual ripped up clothes and have them all done up for a date. Needless to say, our 'friendship' dates didn't go past one, usually, because these 'cool' girls didn't want to be friends. Girls don't want to be your friend.

That being said, i do have a couple of long time girl 'friends'. But I still get the vibe, now and again, that they feel me out for an opportunity to date.

[Nonpareil]

It gets harder as you get older, too. People get married and they say 'Yeah man, we'll still hang out and rip shit up like old times...', but that's a lie.

When a friend gets married, it starts small and grows. One of my best friends from HS and University got married two years ago and the glimmer in his eye is gone, we used to do all kinds of shit; roll out and pick up roommates, go out until 7 in the morning and spend $500 each, random 3 day last-minute trips to Montreal and Chicago, we we're crazy.

Then he meets a girl and gets married, and now when we 'hang out' it's 'Let's just stay in and watch the game.' or 'Yeah we can go for drinks...but oh, I can't get too drunk because my in-laws are coming in for the weekend tomorrow.'. I can do that at my house, without having to drive the hour to see him, and have to censor my shit because his wife is present.

Fucking wack. I used to have 6-7 good buddies in my crew, now I have two that I'm still close with, and what do we all share in common? None of us are married.

And you know what? I like it. About the only drawback of not having a large circle of friends is that you have less options for what to do on certain nights.


Chicks make shitty friends. In my experience the tension (someone always wants to fuck someone...or both people want to but one wants to more) gets too much, and even if there isn't any tension, she will unconsciously cockblock you. One former female friend in particular, cute, cool girl who loved weed and partying, we were close, and she was always talking about 'Oh, I have to introduce you to my friend Chantal/Mandy/Alyssa, they'd love you!' but it never happened, or when we would go out partying she'd hover and not let me isolate so I'd have to ditch her and hear about it later.

Also, the average girl is worthless when a fight breaks out, cheap and not particularly interesting to talk to on deep matters. I can riff with my boys on all sorts of complex shit from economics to philosophy to sports and everything in between...most girls can't get too much past the rudimentary stages.

[Gringo]

I disagree that it's not possible to have good female friends, it is but it's harder because usually as mentioned one person wants to fuck the other.

Quote:

I can riff with my boys on all sorts of complex shit from economics to philosophy to sports and everything in between...most girls can't get too much past the rudimentary stages.

I know some girls who I can talk about all that you mentioned plus more like sex, girls etc. With some of my friends I can't even talk about that much because they're so limited and close minded and don't follow what goes on in the world or have interests in anything outside what's happening in their immediate vicinity.

[Moma]

The women who can talk about complex topics are usually the chicks that you will have no interest in fcuking. I had a friend that was very smart to the point where I think she was actually gifted and could cover a wide range of topics.
However, I found she wanted to fcuk me and I had ZERO interest in fcuking her. After a while, she stopped hanging out with me (responding to my friendly emails and phone calls).

So, nowadays, I don't even bother making female friends. Maybe connections for business but in terms of hanging out, forget it. Unless they are down to fcuk, then fcuk the friendship bullshit.

I also find women tend to inject emotions into their opinions too much and some topics require the participant to use logic and rationale to dissect it, in order to give it a truly and fair objective perspective.

Naturally, there are exceptions. My ex worked in a very male field and was forced to abandon any effeminate bullshyt as she would not have gotten her position if she displayed any emotional nonsense.

She was pretty good at bypassing all the female nonsense to my opinion.

[Gringo]

Quote:

Unless they are down to fcuk, then fcuk the friendship bullshit.

You think friendship is bullshit?

[Chad Daring]

I think he meant female friendship exclusively

[Duke Castile]

(04-19-2011 02:02 PM)Gringo Wrote:  

Quote:

Unless they are down to fcuk, then fcuk the friendship bullshit.

You think friendship is bullshit?

I think he is observing that females rarely bring anything to the table in a friendship.

[Tuthmosis]

(04-19-2011 03:24 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

I think he is observing that females rarely bring anything to the table in a friendship.

I pretty much agree 1,000% with the fellas spitting this school of thought. Women rarely make good friends, are disloyal, cockblocking, envious, manipulative, and flaky (among other things). Strangely--or perhaps predictably--they have a lot in common with beta-ass dudes. Think about it: your chump-beta friends share a lot of the same characteristics with females.

I think it was Gmac that said you basically need to separate the two worlds. That's true. You have your bitches (whether you're actively fucking them or not) and you have your homies. The relationships are fundamentally different simply because of the gender. Period. If you're lucky enough to have homies that "get it," there might be some overlap between the two realms, but most of the time there won't be. There's the occasional female exception but, they're just that: an exception to the rule. I subdivide my friend category further, between dudes that I merely chill with and dudes that I could actually count on if the shit goes down.

One thing that no one's pointed out is how the vast majority of girls see their "guy friends." Even if they don't articulate it to themselves or others, the vast majority of dudes are orbiters to lavish attention on them. So, even if you think you have a good female friend, there's a good chance that deep-down, the deep-rooted sexual overtones--and her instinctual need for attention--are tainting the "friendship."

[Chad Daring]

Personally, I find it preferable not to have friends. Humans are unpredictable. I've got a lot of people I could call if I needed a ride or wanted to just kick it, but I wouldn't consider them friends. I might be being misanthropic though, I do know I havent been exposed to many quality people in my age group so far in my life.