[Enigma]

I initially didn't know what to think when I first read this story last month. Police reports said they were called because a young black guy was pointing a realistic looking airsoft gun at people in Walmart and when they responded, he refused to drop the weapon and was shot.

Coincidentally, right as the grand jury acquits the officers of any wrongdoing, the surveillance video is released.

One thing to note is that Ohio is an "open carry" state, meaning that you are legally able to enter Walmart, etc. with an exposed firearm. The problem is if you create a panic, point it at people, whatever.

Doesn't seem that anyone cares or anyone notices that he has the gun, running contrary to the 911 call claiming he was seen loading the gun (which was unloaded the entire time) and shouldered it to point it at other shoppers (he's obviously talking on the phone and the gun is never pointed at anything other than stuff on a shelf).

Also doesn't appear or sound like any warning was given for him to drop the weapon, which was pointed directly at the floor when he was shot.

[BadWolf]

Will never understand America's obsession with firearms. I think a reasonably intelligent person would understand that you don't go walking around today's world holding a gun.

[Ziltoid]

(09-25-2014 06:15 AM)BadWolf Wrote:  

Will never understand America's obsession with firearms.

Cool, then don't post in gun related threads.

[Roosh]

Suicide by cop?

[Enigma]

(09-25-2014 06:30 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Suicide by cop?

I don't think so. Obviously not a smart thing to do, but he's on the phone with his father at the time. I know there are plenty of times where I've gotten into a deep phone conversation and suddenly realize I'm standing someplace random, doing something kind of odd, or staring directly at someone

And again, you are legally allowed to carry a firearm into Walmart in Ohio -- even if it's not licensed. The police were responding to a 911 call that he had loaded them weapon and was aiming it at people (which he clearly does not), but he was not actually doing anything wrong other than being extremely clueless about his surroundings.

He doesn't appear to threaten anyone, none of the other shoppers seem frightened, and there doesn't appear to be any warning that he is going to be shot from behind despite claims that "he refused to drop the weapon".

You can hear voices in the video -- I don't hear anyone say "drop", "stop", anything like that. Nothing really until he is already collapsing to the ground.

[Ziltoid]

(09-25-2014 06:30 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Suicide by cop?

It didn't look intentional on his part, doesn't seem like he saw or heard them at all before they opened fire. Pretty dumb and obnoxious to walk around a store like that with a pellet rifle, but the cops clearly shot first and asked questions later.

The perfect storm of idiocy here, but, I overall blame the cops. You don't just fucking shoot someone... He wasn't facing them, gun wasn't pointed at them, he was in a corner of the store by himself at the time. Ridiculous.

[El Chinito loco]

Normally I believe most incidents like this are just used as political fodder to advance various racial political agendas however..

I have to say the evidence is strong here just by looking at that youtube video that they just ambushed his ass from the end of the aisle. He's standing there playing with the rifle but it doesn't look like he's doing anything crazy like interacting with shoppers or looking threatening. He's clearly busy talking on the phone or something while carrying it.

It's a case of trigger happy LEO showing up to the scene. They probably should have been slapped with at least manslaughter since this was so blatant.

[Windom Earle]

It appears that not carrying a weapon is also cause to use deadly force, as per this recent incident. Luckily it wasn't fatal. The police officer has since been charged with assault and battery and stood down.

Quite disturbing to consider that this guy actually followed the direction of the police officer (by reaching for his license), and still ended up being shot.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

It fascinates me how dangerous it is to talk on the phone and walk at the same time. This guy was in such an oblivious bubble he didn't even click that something was going wrong around him.

A lot of pedestrians are getting killed because they become oblivious to traffic as they walk. (see this abstract:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...751300119X
)

New heuristic: Don't talk and walk. (And by talk, texting is included).

[Suits]

My understanding that open carry of a rifle generally requires that keep it on a strap and that you keep your hands off of it, unless you are adjusting.

I'm not sure if this is legally specified, but I've seen some Youtube videos by promoters of open carry who appeared to indicate that this was the way to go.

But since no one here is arguing that anyone's constitutional rights should be taken away, here's a list of other legal things that you have every right to do.

1) Walk around giving everyone the finger.

2) Making farting noises in a crowded elevator.

3) Stand on a street corner and loudly repeat the F-word. Pro-tip: to avoid a loitering charge, you'll need to be standing on a soup box.

4) Shove a toaster up your ass in the privacy of your own bedroom.

5) Walk around with a tampon in your nose.

6) Dress like a hipster.

7) Ask strangers for the time in a silly Chinese accent.


Just remember, your right to do all of the above is protected by the Constitution and therefore represent responsible actions.

Be sure do one of the options on the list every single day or they are going to start taking our rights away!

[Ziltoid]

(09-25-2014 07:28 AM)Suits Wrote:  

My understanding that open carry of a rifle generally requires that keep it on a strap and that you keep your hands off of it, unless you are adjusting.

I'm not sure if this is legally specified, but I've seen some Youtube videos by promoters of open carry who appeared to indicate that this was the way to go.

But since no one here is arguing that anyone's constitutional rights should be taken away, here's a list of other legal things that you have every right to do.

1) Walk around giving everyone the finger.

2) Making farting noises in a crowded elevator.

3) Stand on a street corner and loudly repeat the F-word. Pro-tip: to avoid a loitering charge, you'll need to be standing on a soup box.

4) Shove a toaster up your ass in the privacy of your own bedroom.

5) Walk around with a tampon in your nose.

6) Dress like a hipster.

7) Ask strangers for the time in a silly Chinese accent.


Just remember, your right to do all of the above is protected by the Constitution and therefore represent responsible actions.

Be sure do one of the options on the list every single day or they are going to start taking our rights away!

Cool story, he made an unwise decision, therefore his execution was justifiable. Compelling argument you make there.

Why is open carry even being discussed?
He didn't have a "firearm", and he wasn't even walking around public property with his non-firearm... It was an air gun, which wasn't locked down or in a case, that he picked up off a shelf inside a Wal-Mart (private property). This could plausibly have happened in any country where plinker pellet rifles are sold, not just the "evil gun-loving US". He could have been carrying around a realistic enough looking toy gun and the situation is still the same.

This is not a gun issue, this is a police accountability issue.
There have been cases in the past of people using toy guns and pellet rifles to incite suicide by cop, running out into traffic, pointing it at people, etc. This is not one of those cases.

[Beyond Borders]

^ Agreed. The cops should not have run in firing without assessing the situation first, and that stands whether or not the guy had a real gun or not.

End of story.

[internations]

The guy took a toy from the shelf and was talking with his father over the mobile phone.

Nothing he did was illegal in any way.

Still, he got assasinated by the cops.

The cops can simply assasinate anybody, without any consequence.

this is United States of America today...

[Vicious]

Well thank good this was a black guy or the police would have had a shitstorm of paperwork!

[TheWastelander]

I do not blame the cops so much in this case as I do the caller who told a bunch of lies and exaggerations about him. He was dicking around with a toy he got FROM THE SHELF that shoots plastic BBs while talking on the phone. No reasonable person would expect the cops to show up and shoot them to death while handling a toy from a store.

I consider this a case of real life SWATting that led to a death and I hope the caller is charged with a crime and burns in hell. This is as bad as them murdering him themselves.

[TheWastelander]

By the way, this is the video I saw:

http://www.whio.com/videos/news/walmart-...es/vCtB6Z/

He's standing around talking on the phone mindlessly swinging the toy back and forth, cops show up, and it looks like he drops it and runs off. Then he comes back around the corner and I'm guessing the cops think he's going for it and shoot him.

[TheWastelander]

http://bearingarms.com/ex-marine-swatted...ges-story/

Quote:

When Ronald Ritchie called 911 from the aisles of a Walmart in western Ohio last month to report that a black man was “walking around with a gun in the store”, he said that shoppers were coming under direct threat.

“He’s, like, pointing it at people,” Ritchie told the dispatcher. Later that evening, after John Crawford III had been shot dead by one of the police officers who hurried to the scene in Beavercreek, Ritchie repeated to reporters: “He was pointing at people. Children walking by.”

One month later, Ritchie puts it differently. “At no point did he shoulder the rifle and point it at somebody,” the 24-year-old said, in an interview with the Guardian. He maintained that Crawford was “waving it around”, which attorneys for Crawford’s family deny.

Ritchie told several reporters after the 5 August shooting that he was an “ex-marine”. When confronted with his seven-week service record, however, he confirmed that he had been quickly thrown out of the US marine corps in 2008 after being declared a “fraudulent enlistment”, over what he maintains was simply a mixup over his paperwork.

Ronald Ritchie is a serial liar and should be charged with whatever Ohio authorities can charge him with. I'd like to see him go away on felony murder but I don't know if that's possible.

He goes on to lie several times in this TV interview with reporters:

http://www.whio.com/videos/news/man-who-...to/vCmptw/

[jamaicabound]

I'm torn on this issue. First off common sense you don't go creeping around Walmart holding a rifle real or fake, just not a smart thing to do if you want to avoid situations like this. That said it looked like the guy was standing in isles by himself, didn't see at any point him pointing at anyone or being menacing in any way. Also looks like cops came in shooting before this guy was even confronted, you basically just see him drop, don't even see him have any reaction to someone saying freeze or drop it or police or anything like that.

Maybe cop was told over the radio some misinformation that the situation was worse than it was in that case I can see him being acquitted as he can only act on what he's told walks in and sees a guy with a rifle however assuming he wasn't told anything crazy was happening definately seems like a rush to judgement and rush to shoot.

[Soothesayer]

(09-25-2014 06:15 AM)BadWolf Wrote:  

Will never understand America's obsession with firearms. I think a reasonably intelligent person would understand that you don't go walking around today's world holding a gun.

In today's world, gun owners are probably the smartest cats on the planet. If you want to see a disarmed people and what happens to those disarmed people, come to Canada.

[WestIndianArchie]

(09-25-2014 10:08 AM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

I do not blame the cops so much in this case as I do the caller who told a bunch of lies and exaggerations about him. He was dicking around with a toy he got FROM THE SHELF that shoots plastic BBs while talking on the phone. No reasonable person would expect the cops to show up and shoot them to death while handling a toy from a store.

I consider this a case of real life SWATting that led to a death and I hope the caller is charged with a crime and burns in hell. This is as bad as them murdering him themselves.

In all the public cases of SWATTING, the keyed up swat team hasn't killed anyone.

These extra-judicial killings have several levels

1) Cops/Justice system in general don't value black life.

Arguably that extends to the rest of society, but it's kinda old news. I'ts accepted by our society.

Black folks are just resigned to that fact.
Most whites don't give a fuck.
Racists and closeted-racists just blame black people for their faults.

But....

2) The media doesn't think that when white death at the hands of cops is newsworthy. (now let a cop rape a pretty white woman, and it's all you'll hear about)

It doesn't fit a narrative that they can easily sell.

Kill a black kid, and you've got the black and minority audience up in arms, and the not-so-closeted racists get a chance to blame the dead victims for not having guns....

What do you do when a white teenager with headphones is shot in cold blood in Utah?

Undoubtedly there are plenty of racists cops, but when a white cop shoots a white kid, and it gets covered up by police departments, - where's the compelling narrative for the media?

You can't call Al Sharpton for that one.
Shepard Smith ain't got shit to say either, unless it's about the media not covering white deaths.

Even when Tea Party types and Libertarians start to see the actual police state that we live in, they kinda shut the fuck up, cause they don't know how to deal with it.

Soldiers at war aren't so trigger happy.

WIA

[void]

The first thing they did was shoot at him, or am I mistaken?

[Stun]

(09-25-2014 06:15 AM)BadWolf Wrote:  

Will never understand America's obsession with firearms. I think a reasonably intelligent person would understand that you don't go walking around today's world holding a gun.

It's not "America's" obsession with guns. There is a very strong, politically-connected minority of folks in the US obsessed with protecting their 2nd amendment rights. In fairness the amendment is valid, if not outdated.

The excuses are always the same. But if guns were as difficult to get as say uranium, we'd have many less murders and accidental killings. See UK and Australia for examples of countries that saw a drastic fall in killings after gun control was enforced.

[BortimusPrime]

From one of those cop articles on RoK it sounds like the real problem is that in police training they beat it into cadets that every situation is going to turn into Peter Stromare shooting you in the head a la Fargo, so all these chickenshits piss their pants the minute they see a black guy make any rapid movement and then empty their clips.

Now, if I were a black guy, despite that lack of fairness I'd still prioritize not getting shot and avoid doing things to spook officers. Like the guy getting his wallet out of the car jerked around really fast which wasn't smart. Still, I don't get why Ferguson gets so much attention when there's a lot of forensic evidence that Brown was attacking the officer compared to these cases where the victim was obviously not a threat.

[TravelerKai]

This is interesting in a way. Yesterday CNN had some story that the FBI is reporting that there is a mass shooting at least once per month on average in the US now. Now if you think about it, at a frequency like that, what does this do to cops that are already inclined to think the worst in people automatically. Does this kind of stuff make their trigger happy nature worse? More security, less freedom axiom in play here?

If anything it continues to show how little room for error there is, while living in this country, if you are not looking, talking, and acting a certain way.

[BortimusPrime]

I wonder if prosecuting or constantly filming the officers would even have a deterrent effect really, if they're legitimately believe the encounter is going to result in them getting shot they'll still shoot regardless of legal consequences.