[Buddha]

Hello a newbie here. I'd like to first thank senior members for the wealth of information on this forum. It sure influenced my decision to move to Budapest on a long-term basis.

About Me:

6'3", 190 lbs, athletic build, Asian. 32 but look about 20 years old.

I was a standard blue-pill & liberal by-product of overpriced Ivy League education until I turned thankfully into an enlightened conservative about 4 years ago.

Professionally, I dived straight out of college "head-down, ass-up" into the monkey jungle of Wall Street investment banking thinking naively that it would solve all of life's problems and give me everything I wanted...I quit after not even 2 years and have worked independently as a Quant ever since (Applied Mathematician by training).

Now I am completely location-independent. Income wise, I am living comfortably for my standards which is not to say much since I am the frugal, spend-thrifty type.

The Plan:

Set up home-base in Budapest, integrate myself into the city, and enjoy all that Budapest has to offer while saving lots of cash given the low cost of living there.

For this, I got a 1-year Schengen visa as below through the Estonian Embassy. It could have been some other Schengen country but Estonia had a simple process.



This can be renewed via other Schengen countries (For Canadians under 35, not sure about other nationalities). Hungary also has a permanent residency program for investors but that is something that I would consider after some time in the country.

Through the forum, I plan to share my experiences, live data, and learn from other members. RVF meetups in Budapest would be great as well. I've seen some recent threads with good pictures so I plan to share those too.

Although I unplugged from the Matrix years ago, this is an exciting move for me since I've never been to Eastern Europe.

Preparation wise, I am learning Hungarian. Actually, I am devoting an equal amount of time between Hungarian & Russian. I'd say the difficulty of the language is over-rated. It is not more difficult than Russian. The only tough parts are that your knowledge in other languages will be of no help and you would not be motivated to learn it unless you planned to actually live there for long-term.

I hope to be able to deliver simple openers in Hungarian in my 1st month.

Expectations:

Judging by the info on the forum and my own past experiences, I predict 3 outcomes.

1) I land in Budapest to discover Poosy Hell where nothing seems to work out and the city grinds me beneath its heels and tosses me into the Danube. Data indicates that gaming in Budapest is no walk in the park.

2) I land in Budapest to initially have successes with 6s with occasional 7s. After 3+ months, I have marginal successes with 8s and eventually develop an oneitis for a solid 8.5-9.0. The oneitis wears off after a while and I start to see negatives about the city which makes me look elsewhere beyond the borders.

3) I land in Budapest and eventually build up a sustainable Poosy Paradise. After reading Roosh`s book, I feel that Poosy Paradise is something which is built through blood & sweat rather than something that is waiting to be discovered on a silver platter...

Realistically, I suspect my experience in Budapest will be somewhere between scenarios 1 & 3. In any case, I will be sharing them with you here.

I will be in Budapest on Sept 30. I haven't done any housing searches as I get the feeling that I might get the short end of the deal on AirBnB. I booked a private room in a hostel for 7 days and plan to ask around to see how locals rent long-term leases. Any advice would be welcome.

[Greek kamaki]

Generally in EE you should bring dollars with you as the commission you pay through ATM withdrawals is gross.(eg in Poland 1 euro=2.6 zloty conversion rate through withdrawal by ATM while when you exchange euro banknotes 1 euro=4 zloty.So you lose about 30% of your money everytime you withdraw money from bank).
The other possibility is to pay everywhere with credit card.
I guess the same is true for Budapest.

[aphelion]

whoa whoa whoa, let's talk more about this 1-year Estonian visa. That could be a player paradise.

Also, I may drop into Budapest this weekend.

[Cheetah]

(09-16-2014 04:21 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Generally in EE you should bring dollars with you as the commission you pay through ATM withdrawals is gross.(eg in Poland 1 euro=2.6 zloty conversion rate through withdrawal by ATM while when you exchange euro banknotes 1 euro=4 zloty.So you lose about 30% of your money everytime you withdraw money from bank).
The other possibility is to pay everywhere with credit card.
I guess the same is true for Budapest.

When I make cash withdrawals abroad (Poland included) I often get asked if I want to be charged in my home currency (usually rip off exchange rate) or in the local currency. When choosing the latter my bank charges me the same exchange rate as if I would have paid with my credit/debit card in a store with the exception of that they sometimes charge a fixed fee of the equivalent of a few dollars for every cash withdrawal.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Great to hear about your move Buddha!
Would love to to hear more about the process for the 1 year visa you got through Estonia. Why Estonia? Do you have Estonian background? I'm Canadian and under 35 so your comment really piqued my curiosity and I interest.

Will be following your adventures through your thread with great interest as I'd like to get to EE and Budapest in the spring next year.

[Volk]

Good luck and best wishes. It's a good place to live.

I would like to predict another outcome: You could end up banging young international travelers and Hungarian women riding the "expat loop", which is a decent outcome.

I don't think you will sink.

I've got a question, though. What are your expectations about the people?

[vanryan]

i'm another recent expat. been living in buda 6 weeks. pm me if you wanna meet up

[Courage Reborn]

Might want to take down your real photos. Haters roll through this place.

[Biologist]

Very interesting post. I wish all the best to you.

Out of curiosity, why did you choose Budapest in particular?

[HD668B]

(09-16-2014 04:21 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Generally in EE you should bring dollars with you as the commission you pay through ATM withdrawals is gross.(eg in Poland 1 euro=2.6 zloty conversion rate through withdrawal by ATM while when you exchange euro banknotes 1 euro=4 zloty.So you lose about 30% of your money everytime you withdraw money from bank).
The other possibility is to pay everywhere with credit card.
I guess the same is true for Budapest.

bs

everywhere in the world the ATM exchange rate will be better than those pos forex offices

just dont select the option to change the currency, leave it to your home country and your own bank will deal with it

except argentina

[ElJefe1]

About this Estonia Visa......

[Buddha]

Banking:

Thanks Greek kamaki for bringing this up. This info might be useful to other members as well.

I found out that foreigners can open a bank account in Hungary with a passport. OTP Bank is the largest in Hungary and is also one of the largest retail banks in Central and Eastern Europe with presence in Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Serbia, Romania, Croatia, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Russia. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTP_Bank)

Who can open a forint account and how? (https://www.otpbank.hu/portal/en/Retail/...an_Account)

* Any private individual over the age of 18 can open a retail current account.
* You can open an account at any branch of OTP Bank dealing with current accounts.
* Opening an account is free of charge, and there is no initial deposit required.
* Foreigners wishing to open a retail current account will need to present a valid passport or travel document.

How to live permanently or long-term in Europe:

The visa I have falls under this category: http://www.international.gc.ca/experienc...x?lang=eng

I picked the country that asked for the least amount of paperwork and fast processing time (got mine in less than 2 weeks). You'd be surprised what you can find when you look at the immigration sites of each country. For example, Estonia does not set permanent residency quotas for citizens of the USA among other select countries.

Also Germany has more or less open permanent residency program for citizens of Canada, Australia, Israel, Japan, New Zealand, the Republic of Korea and the United States. The catch is that you need to speak basic German which can be learned in a few months and prove that you have enough savings. Once you get PR in Germany, you could register your car and move through any Schengen country. Also having German PR could be DHV to EE girls.

1) http://www.canada.diplo.de/Vertretung/ka...adian.html
2) http://www.canada.diplo.de/contentblob/3...wnload.pdf

I found other programs but these are the ones that pop-up in my mind right now.

@ Volk: "I've got a question, though. What are your expectations about the people?"

I guess I'll have a varied experience with the Hungarian people. My friendships with few Hungarians that I know have been pleasant. I do expect some rough experiences as well as great experiences. I just hope that my efforts at learning Hungarian will pay off. In any case, I feel that integrating into a foreign culture will always be a challenge.

@ Courage Reborn: "Might want to take down your real photos. Haters roll through this place."

Hey I really enjoyed your posts on Europe. I think you are one of the best contributors on this forum. Courage Reborn, Slubu, and Sourcecode's posts factored into my decision making process. As far as posting a mini-photo of me in my avatar I feel OK with it for several reasons:

1) Last time I dealt with HR was 8 years ago.
2) My close guy friends that I care about and that care about me know that I am red-pill and know fully of my plans. So do my parents. The other ones who have married in their 20s and faded into the background...I'll never see again.
3) I wouldn't call any of my female aquaintances friends in any genuine sense. I really don't care what they think or do.
4) If one of my future girlfriends find out about my posts, she'll probably get mad. That is too bad. We'll both move on.
5) I am not going to post anything on here that I wouldn't want my own future kids to read.
6) I presume I will get married after 10 years to some Ukrainian or Russian girl if I make it that far in life. If she finds out then she should be able to deal with it. If not then she is not wife material.
7) I've been through enough crazy shit in my life that this does not affect me at all.
8) I have an open & high-risk personality.
9) I am really a Buddhist.

@ Vanryan: I'd be happy to meet up once I am in Budapest.

@ Biologist: "Out of curiosity, why did you choose Budapest in particular?"

1) Affordable cost of living where I can save a large portion of my monthly income while living in a world-class capital city.
2) Central location in Europe where I can drive to cities like Vienna, Brno, Bratislava, and Zagreb. Might buy a car at the end of my first year.
3) Potential for both high notch count & high notch quality in a culture that has an open attitude to sexuality (unlike Ukraine or Russia).

[aphelion]

Excellent find on the visa. So how did you justify the work stay - are you actually doing some sort of work or were otherwise able to justify staying in Estonia somehow specifically? Seems like ther are some sort of requirements on that.

[bojangles]

My bank ATM withdrawal exchange rates are better than getting cash exchanged

[Buddha]

(09-16-2014 12:18 PM)aphelion Wrote:  

Excellent find on the visa. So how did you justify the work stay - are you actually doing some sort of work or were otherwise able to justify staying in Estonia somehow specifically? Seems like ther are some sort of requirements on that.

This applies to Canadians and other nationalities where there are mutal agreements on Youth Mobility. I don't think there is a similar program for Americans but there might be alternatives. For Americans, the German PR visa that I outlined above is the most affordable and easiest one as long as you are willing to learn some basic German. (Enroll in a course at Goethe-Institut and get a certificate of course completion, but this might be too much for some who are busy)

There is always a catch...I speak fluent German but with a German PR, I have to pay German tax rates...better to get a PR in an EE country with lower tax rates. (with tax treaties you won't be double-taxed but that's beyond the scope of this thread) Btw when I was living in Berlin, there were Americans who were on some Artist visa. They said it was easy to get (one was a small-time Writer, didn't speak good German) and were living comfortably. They could have packed up and moved to Poland if they wanted to.

I would check with the Embassy of various Schengen countries in Washington D.C. It's easier than some people imagine it to be and I am sure that when you realize it is feasible you'll do things you wouldn't do otherwise to make it a reality.

Source: http://www.estemb.ca/youth_mobility_agreement

As the case may be:
(i) show that they have obtained a pre-arranged contract of employment in support of their career development; or
(ii) provide documentation proving registration at a post-secondary institution in their home country and that they have obtained a pre-arranged internship or work placement; or
(iii) confirm their intention to travel in Estonia and work in order to supplement their financial resources.

I fell under category (iii). I drafted a short letter indicating that I am self-employed, noted my holding company for reference, clarified that I work online as a Quant, and said that I plan to supplement my travel with regular income (with official bank statement attached). All in all, just a few sentences ending with a signature. Minimal paperwork, visit to the Embassy was about 10 minutes with appointment.

I asked various embassies and the process is similar (Czech Republic, Croatia, and Poland are headaches while Germany and Slovakia are easy).

For those who have liquid savings or are location independant there are several investor programs. Hell, if you are in IT or engineering you could get a job in a good company and bypass all this.

I know that Hungary, Ukraine, and Latvia have affordable permanent residency programs. If I like Budapest, then I'll eventually switch to a Hungarian PR.

[samsamsam]

Buddha,

Good luck! Will be keeping an eye on this thread.

Thanks.

[TripleG]

@Buddha

2 quick questions:

1) What is a "Quant"?

2) Why move out of Ottawa, Canada? It is not like you are stuck in Toronto or Washington, DC (arguably the 2 worst cities for gaming in N. America). While solid game overcomes everything I could think of other countries in Europe that offer good gaming opportunities with less hardship. For example, with your exotic looks and the predominance of English speakers did you consider Scandinavia (Sweden)?

[Buddha]

Hey Triple G

1) What is a "Quant"?

Quant is someone who uses mathematical methods for various disciplines. I personally work in buy-side financial & risk management. For me, it's a one man show via a holding company. I keep my own books and pay myself a monthly salary while saving the rest as retained profit. I tend to live a frugal, non-flashy life.

2) Why move out of Ottawa, Canada?... For example, with your exotic looks and the predominance of English speakers did you consider Scandinavia (Sweden)?

I am currently based in Vancouver. I've lived (as opposed to just visiting) in Stockholm, London, Berlin, New York City, Daegu, Rio de Janeiro, Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver. I subconsciously leaned towards familiarity & ease so I have never been to Eastern Europe.

I was only in Ottawa for a short visit and for the visa. For the little time I was there and from past visits, I have to say the city is amazing. If I ever returned to Canada, I would pick Ottawa. It seemed like a buyer's market for men, more so than other cities in Canada for the following reasons:

Good male-female ratio (perhaps better than Montreal)
Women give warm eye contact (just like Montreal)
People are stylish & educated (but not snobby)
Nightlife is concentrated in ByWard Market
Great infrastructure
Mix of Anglo & French-Canadian culture
International crowd
Awesome economic prospects

There are good times to be had in many cities for anyone with decent looks & game but in the future I am looking eastwards from Hungary to Ukraine and Russia. Projects which are new and more adventurous, despite the obvious challenges, are more appealing to me. I also have fetishes for foreign languages.

[DaveR]

Be careful with 1-year youth mobility visas (and 1-year 'Schengen' visas in general). They are valid only in the country of issue, not the rest of the Schengen zone (notice that yours reads "Valid for: Estonia"). You'll have trouble paying taxes in Hungary if you have a national visa from another country.
Also, youth mobility visas can only be issued once for each country, so you'll have to incorporate that into your plan. Some of them (eg. Sweden) will prove impractical, because the Police do check to ensure that you're staying at the declared address.

In short: it may work, but not a great long-term strategy. Try not to get caught in the meantime.

[peterfoo22]

Just read this Blog article from nomadic matt..

This applies mainly for US citizens.

http://www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-blogs/...n-90-days/

Peter

[Orson]

Regarding money and a local bank account. Does that guarantee a reasonable conversion rate from $C-dollars?

I ask this because the downside for American's is that any foreign bank account opened up by an American virtually guarantees repeated IRS audits.

Furthermore, with the latest FATCA regulations (this year, SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Acc...liance_Act) requiring banks to annually report to American authorities, the onerous costs almost make it impossible to do this anymore. They simply refuse to do so for US passport bearers.

Quote:

Under U.S. tax law, U.S. persons are generally required to report and pay taxes on income from all sources.[5] Taxpayer identification numbers and source withholding are used to enforce foreign tax compliance. For example, mandatory withholding is often required when a U.S. payor cannot confirm the U.S. status of a foreign payee.[6] The United States levies income taxes on its citizens, regardless of residency, and therefore requires Americans living abroad to pay U.S. taxes on foreign income (minus credit for foreign tax paid).[7][8][9] For this reason, the increased reporting requirements of FATCA have had extensive implications for U.S. citizens living abroad.*

(Exceptions? - when you have a recognized international/multi-national employer, for instance.)

Because this was passed under unitary Democrat rule in 2010, I expect this to change under a post-Obama government - but certainly not before then. Under current rules, it is far better to be a non-US passport holder.
_________

*There are penalties and witholdings imposed ranging from 25% to 40% on non-compliant accounts, including an extension on the statute of limitations of 6 years.

[Orson]

More data from Forbes on the menace of Big Government to US citizens living abroad, via any account holders:

"The annual foreign bank account reports known as FBAR forms carry Draconian civil and criminal penalties. Even civil penalties can quickly consume the balance of an account.

Plus, FATCA—the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act—is ramping up now worldwide. The major impact of FATCA is on foreign institutions everywhere that have been enlisted to help Americans to remember their tax and reporting obligations. Far flung institutions are ferreting out Americans and, if they won’t step forward to the IRS, ratting them out." http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2...n-counted/

[Buddha]

Hi Orson, good points but those apply to people (Americans especially) who are opening foreign bank accounts with the explicit goals of:

1) Evading taxes
2) Laundering money
3) and/or lying on their tax returns regarding their full global assets & income

Otherwise, there is no problem so don't worry too much.

I lived in the US for 7 years, paid taxes to the IRS, and still have business & personal assets in USD. I also paid taxes in the UK and Sweden with bank accounts in both countries. Due to international tax treaties, I was never double-taxed (and you won`t be either). I was never audited as well.

I know many American expats with foreign bank accounts. To my knowledge, they never had any trouble with the authorities. But then again, they are probably not evading taxes and are honestly reporting global income sources like they should be.

As far as foreign exchange, I always confirm the rate with my Canadian home bank before sending the wire. My home bank uses the actual prevailing rate and the wire gets sent in the converted currency of the destination. With online banking, this can be done from a laptop. The additional costs are the wire sending & receiving fees ($30-$40 max altogether).

In a city like Budapest, if I send a 1-time wire of $10,000, I could live & eat comfortably in the center of the city for at least 7 months (according to Sourcecode's data). In Vancouver, one can easily burn through this in about 2.5 months.

The wire fees more than pay for themselves by covering for ATM and frictional FX charges. Girls also see you as an established local if you whip out a local bank card on dates (versus some passing tourist). So you could say that a local bank card is a DHV if we take it that far...

In the US, I banked with Citibank and they had a good online wire platform.
In Canada, only HSBC has online wire platform for personal account holders.
Canadian Business account holders can send online wires from any bank but they have to pay extra for this feature.


As far as the mention of banks refusing US passport holders:

This is a problem in countries that are known to be tax shelters. For example in Switzerland, some banks (usually the boutique-sized banks) will refuse US passport holders, impose strict documentation requirements, and/or regular personal visits to the bank per year. Brokers that help Americans open off-shore bank accounts will also charge more due to the additional documentation requirement. I know this because I used to be an international weapons & drug dealer and constantly had to dodge the DEA, FBI, and the IRS.

[DaveR]

A bit of a long way around, but if you are transferring a decent amount cash and want to get the best exchange rate. If you're transferring $5000 or more, it's definitely worth looking into, but it can save money even if you're transferring as little as $2000:

1. open an account with a foreign exchange broker (OANDA is reputable and has a good platform for doing this). You'll only need to email/upload scans of your identity docs (passport and something with your address on it).

2. fund your account from your home country (let's say this is in Canada - you fund the account with Canadian Dollars). They probably have an account in Canada, so you can avoid international wire transfer fees at this stage.

3. in OANDA's system, the Canadian Dollars can be exchanged for Euros or whichever currency is needed. Their rates are very close to interbank, so you won't lose 1-3% as you usually would with a bank transfer.

4. request OANDA to wire the cash to your bank account in the destination country (must be in your name - they can't do third-party transfers). They usually charge around $20 to make a withdrawal.


OANDA works with the following currencies. If you need something more exotic, you may be able to find it with another broker.
Australian Dollar (AUD)
Canadian Dollar (CAD)
Euro (EUR)
Great Britain Pound (GBP)
Hong Kong Dollar (HKD)
Japanese Yen (JPY)
Singapore Dollar (SGD)
Swiss Franc (CHF)
US Dollar (USD)

FxPro, for example, can deal in Polish Zloty (but not Canadian Dollars). Their account currencies are: USD, EUR, GBP, CHF, JPY, AUD and PLN


Edit: based on Buddha's last post, this may be a good option if your bank doesn't have the option of ordering international wire transfers online. There are two options:
1. pre-fund your OANDA account and make withdrawal requests when you need the cash.
2. use it as a gateway from your Canadian account - funds can be wired to OANDA in Canada, and they will handle the international wire when you request a withdrawal to your account in another country.

[Orson]

<b>DaveR</b> - that's a very cost efficient solution.

For those - like me - who don't know about Oanda, check out the review here
http://www.dailyforex.com/OANDA/OANDA-review/4
ranking the outfit #5 out of some 300.