[20Nation]

(09-19-2014 06:02 PM)rishboy77 Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 09:49 PM)Lemmo Wrote:  

My experience was that Ukrainian women age worse than any other race I've encountered. Most likely a combination of smoking, pollution, alcohol, poor diet and poverty....

Totally agree. It amazing how many girls I have seen and met that actually look older then they are. That is why you need to get to them when are young.
Back to the marriage issue. I would agree that Ukrainian and other FSU women can make great "Baby Momma's" especially if you get to them early like under 25. A added advantage of not getting married is that it keeps the women on their toes since you have a kid with them and if they get out of line, they know you easily leave.
I hope any guy that does knock up a chick is financially able to help out, don't be a dead beat.
It continually amazes how easily Russian, Ukrainian chicks will easily bend on not using protection. It seems having children is such a emotional decision instead of a well thought out plan that even trumps getting married sometimes.

The only problem I have with the baby mama statement is that Ukrainian women are good at extracting money from men. Some of the best I have seen in the world. On top of that I have found their personalities to be pretty bad on average (although it could partly be the language barrier). I just think that a big reason women are so beautiful in Ukraine is because they really believe that it is all they need to bring to the relationship. I just don't think it would be a pleasant experience dealing with all the manipulations a Ukranian woman would use to get money out of you if you didn't marry her.

[Lemmo]

(09-20-2014 07:48 AM)20Nation Wrote:  

I just think that a big reason women are so beautiful in Ukraine is because they really believe that it is all they need to bring to the relationship.

As opposed to women elsewhere who bring...

[20Nation]

I just came to Poland from Ukraine and the change in personalities is so obvious. Ukrainian women are pretty bboring and polish women are sweet and fun. I really think the reason poland is so popular on here is because the girls have great personalities. Because Polish women, honestly are not great compared to Ukrainian in looks.

[Chengiz88]

Name of this thread is kinda vicious

[TravelerKai]

For all you guys that are well traveled in Ukraine, FSU, Russia, etc. Is it true that these women require a strong man to keep them straight? I have been told by others in the manosphere that these women hates pussyfied men and betas, taking the for rides, tricking them out of money, etc. Those same women would take a slap from a more alpha man. That's what I have been told at least.

That presents a dilemma for guys looking for a white or Anglo looking woman with traditional values. A jaded player won't give a shit either way and is immune for the most part. A beta or omega with serious intentions is not going to get over the learning curve without damage being done first. In fact they may never learn. The manosphere is full of betas. These guys see the hot feminine women that would make a good wife or girlfriend but the only guys that seem to know anything about these women are perpetual players and experienced mgtow types that would never get married and watch the local men being alpha with gals there.

I guess my point is that it's either a misleading solution for guys looking for women like that. Or there needs to be some effort from someone to show how it needs to be done. If these women are truly evil someone needs to fully explain why in intricate detail. Just because a player can fuck a few whores behind a local guy's back doesn't make them all scum.

[Greek kamaki]

(09-21-2014 02:26 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

For all you guys that are well traveled in Ukraine, FSU, Russia, etc. Is it true that these women require a strong man to keep them straight? I have been told by others in the manosphere that these women hates pussyfied men and betas, taking the for rides, tricking them out of money, etc. Those same women would take a slap from a more alpha man. That's what I have been told at least.

That presents a dilemma for guys looking for a white or Anglo looking woman with traditional values. A jaded player won't give a shit either way and is immune for the most part. A beta or omega with serious intentions is not going to get over the learning curve without damage being done first. In fact they may never learn. The manosphere is full of betas. These guys see the hot feminine women that would make a good wife or girlfriend but the only guys that seem to know anything about these women are perpetual players and experienced mgtow types that would never get married and watch the local men being alpha with gals there.

I guess my point is that it's either a misleading solution for guys looking for women like that. Or there needs to be some effort from someone to show how it needs to be done. If these women are truly evil someone needs to fully explain why in intricate detail. Just because a player can fuck a few whores behind a local guy's back doesn't make them all scum.

They basically need a man with money.Man with money=strong man in FSU.Usually there this equation holds truth as in order to have money you need some skeletons in your guardarobe.
Actually Russian women prefer sweet effeminate men not some kind of Neatherdals.Ukrainian women are much more primitive they really like harsh men with no manners as they are village like and do not have manners themselves.
Actually Ukrainian women appear dysfunctional from a western point of view.They are too much into nonsense.
Slavic women tend to regard Westerners as boring because they are predictable and live monotonous lives.Not that they like the primitive Turks for example but the balance is in between.
Anyway if you are totally gayish and effeminate you will land hot chicks in Russia though you might get beaten by gopniks.
The standard Russian guy type to which they are used to is much inferior in income and behaviour than German guys.I see it all the time in Germany.This does not mean they will prefer the German guy given the choice.But they will do it if it gives them advantages.

[TravelerKai]

If money was the answer, why are these older white guys getting burned on these marriage tours and foreign marriage matchmakers companies? Many of these dudes have money. Relatively speaking. Like this one guy on a documentary/show, while I thought he was a dork, he was a divorced university professor, looking for a new wife. He was beta as fuck, but he obviously was not broke. He dropped 10K on each of the dating trips for entrance fees! I hear about guy after guy getting burned out of their money and taken to the cleaners by these women.

Only an idiot (talking about these women) cannot see that it would be easier to get money out of these guys long term rather than trying to tell them about their sick mother in the hospital for a quick 800 bucks or whatever. All women like money and use it to measure men. That's just reality. Most women are not as stupid to scorch the earth over 100 dollars. They cannot all be that fucking dumb. Dudes in the Manosphere swear up and down that all these women in the Ukraine/FSU countries, are like the scam artists in the Philippines or worse. Dudes that know Asia, like myself know that not all PI girls are like that, and know how to quickly identify the garbage ones and the legit ones. You got happy dudes with Filipino wives all over the world. There are blogs and sites that tout them all over the place. I know personally several couples.

I have yet to see one blog or site with guys with deep knowledge of those areas getting wives without drama. All I see is negative stuff, like this thread about the place. Two guys I met through another Manosphere site have told me personally that only strong Alpha-like men stayed married to theirs and others they knew got divorced raped etc. I won't make broad assumptions about these place's women just off 3-4 anecdotes, but it would really be nice to get to the bottom of it somehow, so that guys can either stop wasting their time looking for serious stuff in those places.

Does the Ukraine vs Russia drama make dating there right now worse than in previous times? What impact is that having on that country?

[Chengiz88]

Ukraine must be a total pussy paradise for any EU passport holder with a bit of game and money. I would love to hit the place with a crew of PUA's

[Greek kamaki]

Because these guys get scammed.It is a big operation to scam them because lots of people make profit from that.In FSU the common rights and legal obligations of western world are not present.Either you are a sucker or a rider.(They call these men durak-stupid).If you are sucker by FSU mentality you deserve to be separated from your money and lose everything.So these girls do not think they do sth bad.
Morals in slavic world are very different I partly understand them because they are neighbours and have the byzantine orthodox mentality.

[TravelerKai]

Ok so what exactly is keeping the betas and guys like the OP from finding the legit women out there? Do the scammers outnumber the legit ladies? I wish the OP would keep posting because I would like to know how he met those women in the first place. I wonder if guys are making this harder than it needs to be.

[jimukr104]

(09-21-2014 04:42 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Ok so what exactly is keeping the betas and guys like the OP from finding the legit women out there? Do the scammers outnumber the legit ladies? I wish the OP would keep posting because I would like to know how he met those women in the first place. I wonder if guys are making this harder than it needs to be.

Locals prefer locals. Simple as that. Even FSU gals in the west stick mostly with their own..RUSSKAYA Dusha

The girls that specifically partake in such agencies who are under 35 are basically doing it for the privilege of being taken out and they often get compensated for participating.

As for the events that the tour groups hold..girls get to join the raffle. A chance to win something.

If you wanna know how I know..well lets just leave it at that I had the chance to become a partner in one of these scam agencies and my wife use to work sometimes as a translator in some of these events with other friends of hers who spoke English.

One of the so called 'potential partners' use to walk around with a translator and approach girls to take photo's. For their participation he buy them food at MC Donald's (rolls eyes).

One of partners for the largest company( LOVEME.COM to today..known as Foreign Affair) used to get drunk as a skunk at a bar called "Cowboy" and try to get with girls. Kind of weird that he couldn't just date one of the thousands of girls he sold contact info isn't it?

Often the same girls listed in the catalogs were same girls sitting in hotel lobbies selling their bodies or in night clubs working. Or they have BF'S or they are married. Or they had a relative enroll them(often compensated) without their permission or at least enthusiasm.

Kind of sad when the hotel working girls leave and enter the social events wouldn't you say? lol

[Greek kamaki]

(09-21-2014 04:42 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Ok so what exactly is keeping the betas and guys like the OP from finding the legit women out there? Do the scammers outnumber the legit ladies? I wish the OP would keep posting because I would like to know how he met those women in the first place. I wonder if guys are making this harder than it needs to be.

It depends.Sometimes the scammers are too many and sometimes are few between.It has to do with the economy.
When I visited in 2008 just before the crisis the scammers were so many that it was not worth it.Two out of three girls were simply trying to rip you off at dates.I lost 150 euro in 2 hours in some Kiev club by thirsty girls.
When the crisis hit and economy collapsed scamming lost its appeal.It was better to try to keep the guy and milk him longer time than trying to rip him off in short time because there were many desperate girls loaded with loans who would give it for very small reward to get some money back.So scamming guys was damaging for the girls who attempted it.I am always talking about Ukraine because since 2006 Russia has priced itself totally out of the game.

[DaveR]

(09-21-2014 04:05 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

If money was the answer, why are these older white guys getting burned on these marriage tours and foreign marriage matchmakers companies? Many of these dudes have money. Relatively speaking. Like this one guy on a documentary/show, while I thought he was a dork, he was a divorced university professor, looking for a new wife. He was beta as fuck, but he obviously was not broke. He dropped 10K on each of the dating trips for entrance fees! I hear about guy after guy getting burned out of their money and taken to the cleaners by these women.

I'm not sure that there's much to discuss on that point... the marriage agency scam is the same the world over - Ukraine, South America, Asia, wherever. It usually attracts social misfits who can't close the deal at home, let alone in another country with significant cultural and language barriers. They get scammed because the marriage agencies know exactly what they're doing, as JimUkr just pointed out. The 'eligible' girls (who are often married) get a commission, the translators get a commission, and the agency guys add their fat to the top of every service. A few of those misfits may have picked up opportunistic wives in the past, mainly due to the economic situation and visa restrictions, but those days are well and truly over in Russia, and mostly over in Ukraine too.

Girls usually have enough money to travel these days. Those who don't can easily find a Russian or Ukrainian beta to take them on holidays. If a girl really wants to emigrate, she can easily find men on Instagram, Facebook, etc., or by travelling to her target country and using whatever the fashionable internet dating technology is in that place. Basically, Westerners are not extremely exotic in Russia any more. There is no shortage of wealthy local men, and in the two capitals they are often more highly educated and well read than their Western counterparts. Obviously, being a foreigner not from the third world is still somewhat intriguing, but it won't result in a "me love you long time" after a few dates, as is the case in impoverished locations.

For the normal men (not misfits), it isn't difficult to find a wife while in Russia or Ukraine if that is their purpose, but I think it's a poor choice due to the previously mentioned differences in culture and mentality. Those issues usually arise after a few years of marriage, after the hormones wear off.

In general, it's very difficult to get an understanding of Russian culture and mentality by theory alone. How long did it take you to really understand the Chinese? Do you think one could be successful in China by theory alone, without practical experience?
I would say it takes at least 5-10 years (depending on the level of integration) in Russia to understand Russians well. Those from other Orthodox cultures (Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, etc.) usually find it easier.

[TravelerKai]

(09-21-2014 04:56 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 04:42 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Ok so what exactly is keeping the betas and guys like the OP from finding the legit women out there? Do the scammers outnumber the legit ladies? I wish the OP would keep posting because I would like to know how he met those women in the first place. I wonder if guys are making this harder than it needs to be.

Locals prefer locals. Simple as that. Even FSU gals in the west stick mostly with their own..RUSSKAYA Dusha

The girls that specifically partake in such agencies who are under 35 are basically doing it for the privilege of being taken out and they often get compensated for participating.

As for the events that the tour groups hold..girls get to join the raffle. A chance to win something.

If you wanna know how I know..well lets just leave it at that I had the chance to become a partner in one of these scam agencies and my wife use to work sometimes as a translator in some of these events with other friends of hers who spoke English.

One of the so called 'potential partners' use to walk around with a translator and approach girls to take photo's. For their participation he buy them food at MC Donald's (rolls eyes).

One of partners for the largest company( LOVEME.COM to today..known as Foreign Affair) used to get drunk as a skunk at a bar called "Cowboy" and try to get with girls. Kind of weird that he couldn't just date one of the thousands of girls he sold contact info isn't it?

Often the same girls listed in the catalogs were same girls sitting in hotel lobbies selling their bodies or in night clubs working. Or they have BF'S or they are married. Or they had a relative enroll them(often compensated) without their permission or at least enthusiasm.

Kind of sad when the hotel working girls leave and enter the social events wouldn't you say? lol

I have heard some things about the love me guys. That sucks. I heard the owner was getting sued or already got sued.

So if all the tour guys are running scams what about dudes on the ground that roll solo? Why are their chances just as shitty?

[TravelerKai]

(09-21-2014 05:03 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 04:42 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Ok so what exactly is keeping the betas and guys like the OP from finding the legit women out there? Do the scammers outnumber the legit ladies? I wish the OP would keep posting because I would like to know how he met those women in the first place. I wonder if guys are making this harder than it needs to be.

It depends.Sometimes the scammers are too many and sometimes are few between.It has to do with the economy.
When I visited in 2008 just before the crisis the scammers were so many that it was not worth it.Two out of three girls were simply trying to rip you off at dates.I lost 150 euro in 2 hours in some Kiev club by thirsty girls.
When the crisis hit and economy collapsed scamming lost its appeal.It was better to try to keep the guy and milk him longer time than trying to rip him off in short time because there were many desperate girls loaded with loans who would give it for very small reward to get some money back.So scamming guys was damaging for the girls who attempted it.I am always talking about Ukraine because since 2006 Russia has priced itself totally out of the game.

That kinda makes sense. Blowing money on thirsty broads is something that can be avoided in Asia if you are smarter than gaming in clubs if you are wife hunting. I doubt you were wife hunting though.

What about outside the box hunts? College game, mall game, strategic daygame at places like a museum or whatever with strong knowledge of their culture and language?

Night spots contain a certain kind of woman 9 times out of ten. Even the 5 bookworms or gals from a great family in a joint at night dragged their by their buddies might flake on anyone trying to close on them because their shields are up on alert. Catch them in another spot, totally different situation.

[TravelerKai]

(09-21-2014 05:59 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(09-21-2014 04:05 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

If money was the answer, why are these older white guys getting burned on these marriage tours and foreign marriage matchmakers companies? Many of these dudes have money. Relatively speaking. Like this one guy on a documentary/show, while I thought he was a dork, he was a divorced university professor, looking for a new wife. He was beta as fuck, but he obviously was not broke. He dropped 10K on each of the dating trips for entrance fees! I hear about guy after guy getting burned out of their money and taken to the cleaners by these women.

I'm not sure that there's much to discuss on that point... the marriage agency scam is the same the world over - Ukraine, South America, Asia, wherever. It usually attracts social misfits who can't close the deal at home, let alone in another country with significant cultural and language barriers. They get scammed because the marriage agencies know exactly what they're doing, as JimUkr just pointed out. The 'eligible' girls (who are often married) get a commission, the translators get a commission, and the agency guys add their fat to the top of every service. A few of those misfits may have picked up opportunistic wives in the past, mainly due to the economic situation and visa restrictions, but those days are well and truly over in Russia, and mostly over in Ukraine too.

Girls usually have enough money to travel these days. Those who don't can easily find a Russian or Ukrainian beta to take them on holidays. If a girl really wants to emigrate, she can easily find men on Instagram, Facebook, etc., or by travelling to her target country and using whatever the fashionable internet dating technology is in that place. Basically, Westerners are not extremely exotic in Russia any more. There is no shortage of wealthy local men, and in the two capitals they are often more highly educated and well read than their Western counterparts. Obviously, being a foreigner not from the third world is still somewhat intriguing, but it won't result in a "me love you long time" after a few dates, as is the case in impoverished locations.

For the normal men (not misfits), it isn't difficult to find a wife while in Russia or Ukraine if that is their purpose, but I think it's a poor choice due to the previously mentioned differences in culture and mentality. Those issues usually arise after a few years of marriage, after the hormones wear off.

In general, it's very difficult to get an understanding of Russian culture and mentality by theory alone. How long did it take you to really understand the Chinese? Do you think one could be successful in China by theory alone, without practical experience?
I would say it takes at least 5-10 years (depending on the level of integration) in Russia to understand Russians well. Those from other Orthodox cultures (Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, etc.) usually find it easier.

That definately makes sense. I call misfits lazy betas usually. They won't read a large datasheet or trip report and insist on not using the search buttons. They want everything easy. It shows on the women they attract as well or the lack of women they attract.

For normal guys how can you say it's easy but say they should not for he same reasons the misfits shouldn't? One group is lazy and put no effort into hunting and use shortcuts at every turn. If a normal guy can learn the language and culture, do homework, not use scammers to hunt for them, why wouldn't they find success? Why are they subject to scamming and evil girls like the misfits?

It took me many years to learn Chinese culture and language. I started about 10 years ago. After I wrote my guide I have had a handful of guys find success based on what I wrote. Many before me had success as well and wrote books about it like my immigration lawyer Lee Solomon. Maybe Chinese women are not as difficult as the others but I cannot tell. Hard to say.
I definitely think theory is good enough to learn about Chinese women. I tried to remove all the mystery about it with my guide and give men some tools and techniques that close the gap faster, so that they wouldn't make the same mistakes I made. When I started there was no theory for black men out there. Alot of the success is also due to China changing as much as it has as well. If this was still the year 1998, I probably would not have the same success.

[DaveR]

(09-21-2014 08:06 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

For normal guys how can you say it's easy but say they should not for he same reasons the misfits shouldn't? One group is lazy and put no effort into hunting and use shortcuts at every turn. If a normal guy can learn the language and culture, do homework, not use scammers to hunt for them, why wouldn't they find success? Why are they subject to scamming and evil girls like the misfits?

Re: "For the normal men (not misfits), it isn't difficult to find a wife while in Russia or Ukraine if that is their purpose, but I think it's a poor choice due to the previously mentioned differences in culture and mentality"
- I was referring to what I wrote in an earlier post about the differences between Orthodox and Western views on relationships, marriage, the family unit, etc. In any case, those are long-term problems which would usually be discovered well after the wedding day.

I wouldn't say it's easy, but men who are in Russia or Ukraine for an extended period of time will meet plenty of marriage/family-minded women. They'll still need a reasonable plan to make it all work, and that is where I think the problem lies. The way a lot of strange men go about their hunt for a wife is quite illogical, in my opinion. She should be a 'traditional' woman, but she should also be willing to move away from her family and friends for a man she has known for a couple of weeks. Those two things don't go together.
That's why I call the men who go on those short-term marriage tour things "social misfits" - if they were socially adept, they wouldn't be on a marriage tour because they would have realised that it doesn't add up. Maybe I'm too harsh on the ultra-betas, but I think most red-pill men realise there are a lot of sluts around and that it takes a long time to filter them out and find the girls who are marriage material. It isn't something that can be sorted out by a marriage tour company in a couple of weeks.

(09-21-2014 07:39 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

So if all the tour guys are running scams what about dudes on the ground that roll solo? Why are their chances just as shitty?

I think the men who go solo have much better chances, but it isn't the '90s any more. Being a Westerner doesn't immediately place a man at the top of the social ladder as it did 20 years ago. The region is no longer economically depressed and girls don't need to emigrate in order to escape poverty.

If someone has a common interest (art, sport, science, etc.) they might get lucky and meet someone at an international conference or event, but for most men, they'll have to put in the time and effort to learn the culture and/or language, as you did.

[TripleG]

(09-20-2014 12:47 PM)20Nation Wrote:  

I just came to Poland from Ukraine and the change in personalities is so obvious. Ukrainian women are pretty bboring and polish women are sweet and fun. I really think the reason poland is so popular on here is because the girls have great personalities. Because Polish women, honestly are not great compared to Ukrainian in looks.

@20Nation,
"Some of the best I have seen in the world. On top of that I have found their personalities to be pretty bad on average (although it could partly be the language barrier). "
Unless you can game women in their native language I doubt you can properly judge them on their personalities! It's like trying to play basketball with running shoes, sure you will be able to move and get an occasional "defensive" rebound and block, but not the quality you want. Last year I made 2 trips to UA and I found the women there friendly and great conversationalists ( though 90% of my game was in Russian and I went mostly for GF(relationship) types in their late 20s.)

[TripleG]

(09-21-2014 04:05 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

If money was the answer, why are these older white guys getting burned on these marriage tours and foreign marriage matchmakers companies? Many of these dudes have money. Relatively speaking. Like this one guy on a documentary/show, while I thought he was a dork, he was a divorced university professor, looking for a new wife. He was beta as fuck, but he obviously was not broke. He dropped 10K on each of the dating trips for entrance fees! I hear about guy after guy getting burned out of their money and taken to the cleaners by these women.

Only an idiot (talking about these women) cannot see that it would be easier to get money out of these guys long term rather than trying to tell them about their sick mother in the hospital for a quick 800 bucks or whatever. All women like money and use it to measure men. That's just reality. Most women are not as stupid to scorch the earth over 100 dollars. They cannot all be that fucking dumb. Dudes in the Manosphere swear up and down that all these women in the Ukraine/FSU countries, are like the scam artists in the Philippines or worse. Dudes that know Asia, like myself know that not all PI girls are like that, and know how to quickly identify the garbage ones and the legit ones. You got happy dudes with Filipino wives all over the world. There are blogs and sites that tout them all over the place. I know personally several couples.

I have yet to see one blog or site with guys with deep knowledge of those areas getting wives without drama. All I see is negative stuff, like this thread about the place. Two guys I met through another Manosphere site have told me personally that only strong Alpha-like men stayed married to theirs and others they knew got divorced raped etc. I won't make broad assumptions about these place's women just off 3-4 anecdotes, but it would really be nice to get to the bottom of it somehow, so that guys can either stop wasting their time looking for serious stuff in those places.

Does the Ukraine vs Russia drama make dating there right now worse than in previous times? What impact is that having on that country?

@TravelerKai,

You must not be searching hard enough. Thousands of successful marriage's (and some not) are being discussed on this RU forum by foreign guys who went to FSU (primarily Ukraine). Take a read before making comments like the one's above.

[TravelerKai]

I stand corrected! I will take a deeper look into that site. Perhaps I can find more or less the answers I was looking for or gain new questions.

Thanks

[Lemmo]

(09-21-2014 04:05 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

If money was the answer, why are these older white guys getting burned on these marriage tours and foreign marriage matchmakers companies? Many of these dudes have money. Relatively speaking. Like this one guy on a documentary/show, while I thought he was a dork, he was a divorced university professor, looking for a new wife. He was beta as fuck, but he obviously was not broke. He dropped 10K on each of the dating trips for entrance fees! I hear about guy after guy getting burned out of their money and taken to the cleaners by these women.

Only an idiot (talking about these women) cannot see that it would be easier to get money out of these guys long term rather than trying to tell them about their sick mother in the hospital for a quick 800 bucks or whatever. All women like money and use it to measure men. That's just reality. Most women are not as stupid to scorch the earth over 100 dollars. They cannot all be that fucking dumb. Dudes in the Manosphere swear up and down that all these women in the Ukraine/FSU countries, are like the scam artists in the Philippines or worse. Dudes that know Asia, like myself know that not all PI girls are like that, and know how to quickly identify the garbage ones and the legit ones. You got happy dudes with Filipino wives all over the world. There are blogs and sites that tout them all over the place. I know personally several couples.

I have yet to see one blog or site with guys with deep knowledge of those areas getting wives without drama. All I see is negative stuff, like this thread about the place. Two guys I met through another Manosphere site have told me personally that only strong Alpha-like men stayed married to theirs and others they knew got divorced raped etc. I won't make broad assumptions about these place's women just off 3-4 anecdotes, but it would really be nice to get to the bottom of it somehow, so that guys can either stop wasting their time looking for serious stuff in those places.

Does the Ukraine vs Russia drama make dating there right now worse than in previous times? What impact is that having on that country?

Well, because those guys are contacting people who exist for the purpose of fleecing desperate Western morons. If you only contacted the Nigerians who sent emails to your spam account, you'd also end up with a warped impression of that country. I wouldn't use mail order bride customers as a basis for any general conclusions about Ukrainian women.

[Lemmo]

(09-21-2014 02:26 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

For all you guys that are well traveled in Ukraine, FSU, Russia, etc. Is it true that these women require a strong man to keep them straight?

Where is this not the case?

[Constitution45]

It looks like Ukrainians are becoming a lot more patriotic, and will be more likely to hook up with the soldiers fighting in the East of the country than foreigners, which I say is a good thing. From experience, a lot of FSU women end up settling with the locals, despite the novelty of a Western guy. There are big differences in the culture, which a lot of Westerners simply can't get their heads around.

Same advice goes for everywhere, personally I don't see the problem with mail order bribes. There is a lot of shaming around it, but its not like the marriages you get with Western women aren't going to have a set conditions of give and take. For some reason, its believed that because Western women can dominate you and make a joke of you in relationships, is some sort of sign of a "healthy relationship".

A lot of these practical traditional marriages work out because they aren't made into something that is overcomplicated, with all this "soul mate" bullshit.

I can see how men will be blinded in these sort of countries. You have a lot of women trying to snare you into long term commitments, even after a few weeks of dating. There are good wives to be had out there, but you have to be careful and cautious just like anywhere else.

[Lika]

(09-22-2014 05:49 AM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

It looks like Ukrainians are becoming a lot more patriotic, and will be more likely to hook up with the soldiers fighting in the East of the country than foreigners, which I say is a good thing.

Why is it a good thing? Are you a Ukrainian man?

[Constitution45]

(09-22-2014 06:30 AM)Lika Wrote:  

(09-22-2014 05:49 AM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

It looks like Ukrainians are becoming a lot more patriotic, and will be more likely to hook up with the soldiers fighting in the East of the country than foreigners, which I say is a good thing.

Why is it a good thing? Are you a Ukrainian man?

No but I would be pissed if I was fighting in a war zone while my woman was getting smashed all over the gaff by some Canadian PUA.