[Orion]

Probably the worst game advice i ever got which 100% people repeated over and over and it never worked is to be stubborn and pushy and eventually you will get laid.

I never did, until i started playing the numbers game - If she is not buying your game, you failed, move on to next broad.

[PhilE]

The same goes for race as well. Which is why we used to see so many "black guy" threads in the forum. I remember this Puerto Rican guy who looked white (blonde, 6'2, blue eyes) was telling me how easy Brazil was for American guys, and that women would throw themselves at him the entire time. He proceeded to show me his phone full with pictures, and texts (in Portuguese) of women claiming their undying love for him.

No less than a week later I meet a black guy who actually LIVES in Brazil. And I told him about the other guys experience. He looked at me with the "are you kidding me face" and when I told him he was a white looking puerto rican guy he said "oohhhhh, I thought you were talking about a black guy having success like that" And he proceeded to tell me that don't expect to get "Video Vixen" quality women in Brazil that aren't pros. It just don't happen for black men. And the ones it happens for speak Portuguese fully, and know these women from work, school, and/or some other form of low intensity social event.

Since I deal with Real Estate he told me something I never forget. You can't value a house without comparable sales (Comps) and you can't value someones experience with out comps either. In Real Estate the sq footage, beds, bath have to be exact or as close as possible or you can't use that price to justify your price. So don't use a 6'2 considered white guy for your "Comps" in how Brazil would treat you. Use someone who is similar to you.

[Nomad77]

A good looking guy without confidence won't get girls. It's not enough to be just good looking.

[reaper23]

there is a big difference between 6'4 and skinny fat and 6'4 and built out. you can be be awkward as fuck at 6'4.

i'm 6'4. and i can tell you from experience, its not the panacea shorter guys seem to think it is. there are plenty of ways to fuck up. i've seen incredible changes in the quality of women i can pull and harems i can manage after years in the game.

did i always seem to get laid before learning game? sure. but was the quality always good? no. could i pull the one i wanted each time? no. could i manage a group of women indefinitely without commitment? no.

game is about out performance as was said earlier.

using a finance term: since i've learned game my "alpha" has increased tremendously.

i'm considered attractive. i'm tall.

guess all my advice is shit then? just pure luck for me due to my 76 inches!

i've been 6'4 275 lbs and 35% body fat with terrible clothing choices and no game.

you think my height mattered much then?

now i'm 6'4 220 and 10% body fat, have style, have status, and have game. besides the height, i made all that happen. and the returns have been quite literally unbelievable.

i think this thread is actually game denialism, cloaked as hating.

[BadgerHut]

(08-30-2014 03:44 PM)puckerman Wrote:  

It's a lot the same reason why mediocre athletes often become the best coaches. The great athletes usually become lousy coaches.

I coach sports and this is absolutely true. Guys who were naturals or played at a very high level coach in a completely different, and much less effective, way than those who didn't have that luxury. They almost always need to go through an "unlearning" phase and re-learn the basics of their sport to coach it effectively.

It's kind of darkly funny to watch a guy who never had to understand the biomechanics of sports skills get frustrated and shout "just get around him!" or "jump up and catch it!" having no idea why the kid isn't understanding what he's saying and can't "just do it."

At the college/pro level, it is unusual to see a coach who didn't play at least D-I college ball (the first step in the networking that gets them into the coaching pipeline). However, it is probably more unusual to see a great coach who was also a really great player. You see relatively few guys like Jim Harbaugh on top staffs versus competent but unremarkable players becoming great coaches.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(08-31-2014 12:37 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

A good looking guy without confidence won't get girls. It's not enough to be just good looking.

Since a few of my friends are Naturals and some of them very good-looking I have ample comparative value when going out with them.

One has model-level looks and a modicum of game, the other is 6'3 and almost as good looking with better Game. Basically the taller more experienced friend almost always waits for IOIs and strong initial attraction and then instantly approaches the girl. He usually only has to smile, keep eye-contact and have a little bit of banter. The initial feral attraction is strong enough to pull it through not doing much Game. I personally would rate me above-average in looks, but in when going out with both of them, I see that I have way less opportunities and have to make it up with Game. Usually it works, since we are different in type and personality. Plus I studied Game a lot more than those two and it actually begins to show in results.

But the truth is this: the less in looks and height is going for you, the tighter needs to be your Game. As far as taking advice from those guys? Yes and no - a lot of their stuff can be valid, but you have to see their weaknesses and understand where they are coming from. In a way a good-looking tall PUA would have to pull successful models & actresses consistently to up his skill level relative to his Game. Most never do so, which is why their Game does not advance beyond a certain level.

[Vicious]

(08-31-2014 11:38 AM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  

Unless the good-looking guy is well-established in the game community, like Mystery. We can all agree that he is good-looking, right? Tall as hell, too.

[la_mode]

It's forgotten, there's different types of good-looking for men. Most women will agree on Channing Tatum being conventionally good-looking, others will prefer Zac Efron, then some will say Zac Efron looks too feminine and she prefers a "man's man". Others will say Tatum is too much of a typical "beefcake". Both of these guys are obviously good-looking, but will have stronger appeal to certain types of women.

Women are much more specific in their attractions than men are. In the US, it's always a buyers market for them given the wildly uneven American ratios. Men, as long she's not too fat (excluding fat fetishists) and ok looking - if it's been a while, most straight guys are good to go. Part of this can also be blamed on lack of prostitution in America.

My friend the former street pimp once told me:

"You really don't have to be that attracted to a woman to enjoy sex with her, but you shouldn't be "un-attracted" to her either."

The game used by good-looking guys is oftentimes different since there's already a baseline attraction. The game of a good-looking guy at 6'2 210lb ripped guy is going to be different than a 5'7 140lb good-looking hipster type. Both have their respective niches, the 6'2 210lb ripped guy having a much larger pool. One thing is for sure, both will employ a certain amount of IDGAF game and do it correctly. Give the average guy a million dollars, to some women, he has more game than either, but that's probably not the game most men want.

Essentially, when the niche is found, the attraction doesn't have to be built - since it's already there.

[Mister X]

(08-31-2014 03:19 PM)la_mode Wrote:  

It's forgotten, there's different types of good-looking for men. Most women will agree on Channing Tatum being conventionally good-looking, others will prefer Zac Efron, then some will say Zac Efron looks too feminine and she prefers a "man's man". Others will say Tatum is too much of a typical "beefcake". Both of these guys are obviously good-looking, but will have stronger appeal to certain types of women.

Women are much more specific in their attractions than men are. In the US, it's always a buyers market for them given the wildly uneven American ratios. Men, as long she's not too fat (excluding fat fetishists) and ok looking - if it's been a while, most straight guys are good to go. Part of this can also be blamed on lack of prostitution in America.

My friend the former street pimp once told me:

"You really don't have to be that attracted to a woman to enjoy sex with her, but you shouldn't be "un-attracted" to her either."

The game used by good-looking guys is oftentimes different since there's already a baseline attraction. The game of a good-looking guy at 6'2 210lb ripped guy is going to be different than a 5'7 140lb good-looking hipster type. Both have their respective niches, the 6'2 210lb ripped guy having a much larger pool. One thing is for sure, both will employ a certain amount of IDGAF game and do it correctly. Give the average guy a million dollars, to some women, he has more game than either, but that's probably not the game most men want.

Essentially, when the niche is found, the attraction doesn't have to be built - since it's already there.

The question then becomes if you find a niche, what do you do if the women who are attracted to that niche are not for you?

Example, the 5'7 hipster who weighs 140 lbs...is he only attracting similar hipster-esque girls who are petite? What if he wants a thick girl with an hourglass figure? Does he have to change who he is? Or just remain the 140 lb hipster he enjoys being and hope that his game will be enough to grab some thick girls?

To me that's also a part of game. How much of who you are is actually who you want to be, and how much of it is what you think will attract a woman?

If the 5'7 140 pounder wants to remain so, will game open up lanes for him? Or does he need to pack on weight and go to the gym?

[General Mayhem]

Good looking guy game and ugly guy game are two completely different things.

Good looking guys don't give the worst advice, it just isn't the advice that ugly guys will have success with and vice versa. Ugly guy game isn't going to do shit for a good looking guy either.

[Tuthmosis]

(08-31-2014 03:48 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

Good looking guy game and ugly guy game are two completely different things.

I agree.

Good-looking guy game:

• Show up
• Don't die on the way back to your apartment
  

Regular-guy game:

• Execute the 35,000 threads of this forum without making a mistake
  

[Tuthmosis]

(08-31-2014 03:48 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

Ugly guy game isn't going to do shit for a good looking guy either.

(08-31-2014 12:07 PM)Catch 22 Wrote:  

tldr - Their game is just different from our game

   

If a good-looking guy could tell stories that draw a crowd like I do, have bitches laughing their asses off for an entire night like I can, and set up flawless logistics like I do, it wouldn't help them?

[Chaos]

This thread is hilarous.

[General Mayhem]

(08-31-2014 04:07 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(08-31-2014 03:48 PM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

Ugly guy game isn't going to do shit for a good looking guy either.

(08-31-2014 12:07 PM)Catch 22 Wrote:  

tldr - Their game is just different from our game

If a good-looking guy could tell stories that draw a crowd like I do, have bitches laughing their asses off for an entire night like I can, and set up flawless logistics like I do, it wouldn't help them?

Some things are universal, story telling ability and logistics are great examples.

[jasond]

Quote:

If a good-looking guy could tell stories that draw a crowd like I do, have bitches laughing their asses off for an entire night like I can, and set up flawless logistics like I do, it wouldn't help them?

It would be overkill. In the amount of time needed to tell these great stories, and have these bitches laughing away for the whole night, the good-looking guy could have already scored 3 new bangs. So in essence, "good game" would have cost him 2 bangs. Counterproductive.

[Tuthmosis]

(08-31-2014 04:48 PM)jasond Wrote:  

It would be overkill.

Not if he's going after top-shelf (even famous) pussy. He's going to have to out perform other good-looking cats with multiple value propositions.

[Krivo]

I believe that a small fraction of good-looking guys also have tight game.

Take for example, Leonardo DiCaprio (no homo). I realize that he is an extreme example, adding fame and wealth to the equation, but even among Hollywood leading men, he is a standout poon-slayer. He seems to bang a new Victoria's Secret model every month or two. Very few (if any) of his peers seem to have his level of success. So there must be more to his game than simply showing up.... agree?

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Heartiste did two good posts on the limits of Game:

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2007/05/2...s-of-game/

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/09/1...n-game-do/

As a rule of thumb I guess he is about right - a man can count on sleeping with girls 2-3 points above his looks/height level. An overweight short guy who is a 3 can count on laying 5-6s with Game or mitigating factors (moderate wealth + minimum amount of Game).

And also that assessment should help you realize what it means for a guy who is a male 9 or 8 - especially when he is using Tinder and Feral Night Game - most of those guys are not exactly only focusing on their female equivalents - they fuck plenty of 6s, 7s etc. Also due to the obese-epidemic guys are fucking and even dating way below their looks.

But frankly I found that the farther West you go and the more feminism-infested the culture is, the more looks seem to matter. And in some regions where there are many good-looking tall guys, then suddenly the different individual with high-energy Alpha Game level is more successful, but of course that is highly regional - some regions in Switzerland or Germany.

@Krivo - Leonardo DiCaprio does not need Game. Almost all A-level actors can bang through entire model agencies. Stallone did so way more than DiCaprio even while being in his 50s. You simply cannot compare Fame to any other factor in attraction in our current time.

[Mister X]

While good looking guys don't *need* game, there are some who have it.

DiCaprio and Derek Jeter (Tom Brady and George Clooney too although these guys are locked down now) have height, looks, fame/status, money, AND possible game. Dicaprio and Jeter definitely seem to do a lot better than some of their other big name buddies.

[Mister X]

I'll also add that -- celebs like DiCaprio and the like still need game to separate themselves, not from guys like us, but from other A-listers.

If you take a guy like Justin Bieber and put him in our pool, yeah, he's probably gonna get the bang over us.

But against DiCaprio, he'd probably lose. DiCaprio is older/more mature, taller, more famous, and probably has tighter game, etc

So yeah, these Hollywood guys don't need any help getting poon, but when they're competing for the same models as fellow actors/athletes/musicians etc, you need a tiebreaker.

[BadgerHut]

(08-31-2014 05:21 PM)Mister X Wrote:  

While good looking guys don't *need* game, there are some who have it.

DiCaprio and Derek Jeter (Tom Brady and George Clooney too although these guys are locked down now) have height, looks, fame/status, money, AND possible game. Dicaprio and Jeter definitely seem to do a lot better than some of their other big name buddies.

Wrt DiCaprio, it's worth noting that high-level acting requires a sort of personality transmogrification skill and narcissism/stage presence that transfers easily to charming girls. So a "famous actor" really has two things going for him before you factor in his looks and money.

[Jestx]

Why are you guys talking about celebrities. Jonah Hill is a fat fuck and could bang a model if he wanted. Fame on that scale basically trumps all.

Yesterday I went out with my good looking friend (8+ guy). We were late and very last in line for a bar, and he was displaying horrible body language while we were waiting. Arms crossed, looking really uptight, constantly fidgeting with his hair/face. I mentioned this earlier in the night to him, saying he was coming off really insecure. Some pretty girl comes up to him and makes fun of his "seriousness" and literally told him to his face he had poor body language (duh).

He banged her that night. If any average looking guy would have acted in his manner, she doesn't even look his way.

[Mister X]

@Jest -- I can only speak for myself personally but I was responding to the notion that celebrities don't need game because they have fame. My belief is that yes, some of them do have game, because they're not competing with us regular guys. They're competing with other celebs.

It's not like a celebrity is gonna bang some world renown super model and he's the only celebrity she has connections to. Those girls get invited to Hollywood parties and the like all the time, her circle is gonna have more than one celebrity that can coast on his fame alone -- he's gonna need game to keep her away from other dudes in his rank -- if he wants to lock her down that is.

If he's just gonna jump from one girl to another I suppose he *can* coast on his status and just bang whoever he wants and not care about who else she may be banging.

[w00t]

[Tuthmosis]