[Nomad77]

One of the reasons guys do this is simply because we all want the hottest looking girls and are willing to go to great lengths to get them. Unfortunately, for many of us, the hotter the girl the more likely she will be a NO girl. Should you put in the time and effort on a hot girl that isn't given you much to play it? I would say don't do it. Work your way up to these girls. Start with the girls you are sure are Maybe girls and gradually work your way up. If you are stuck at some level then it means you may have to work on yourself and your inner game more because remember, as you move up to the hotter girls, you are going to be competing with guys like me

[Nomad77]

Here is a related post: Are you in the friend zone?

[Nomad77]

Here is another type of common NO girl. I was in Starbucks and sat down across from this college girl. She kept checking me out with serious sexual eye contact - multiple times. I opened her and we built some rapport. Then a friend of hers showed up and I figured I had a limited window when she went to bathroom. So I asked her out directly. Well, she said she had a boyfriend and they were together for two years now. So what was going on here? Well, she wanted me to ask her out. By doing that I validated her sexual value. Was she attracted to me? Probably. Was she will to do anything about it? NO.

So it's not enough for a girl to be attracted to you. She also has to be able AND willing to act on that attraction to be a Maybe girl.

[Dalaran1991]

(09-01-2014 11:13 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Here is another type of common NO girl. I was in Starbucks and sat down across from this college girl. She kept checking me out with serious sexual eye contact - multiple times. I opened her and we built some rapport. Then a friend of hers showed up and I figured I had a limited window when she went to bathroom. So I asked her out directly. Well, she said she had a boyfriend and they were together for two years now. So what was going on here? Well, she wanted me to ask her out. By doing that I validated her sexual value. Was she attracted to me? Probably. Was she will to do anything about it? NO.

So it's not enough for a girl to be attracted to you. She also has to be able AND willing to act on that attraction to be a Maybe girl.

Fuck that shit, girls play fucking mind war and cockteasing guys just for their self-serving interest and not giving a shit for the guy. Even us redpillers sometimes get annoyed by this, but imagine a blue pill guy? He would be fawning/dreaming about that eye contact for days and stay restless at work texting/waiting to text a girl that would never go out with him.

This is why pushing forward is so critical to flush out the snake and not risk wasting your time. You did awesome on asking her out. The best that girl get from you is that invitation but nothing else. She can go trap another loser and leave you to game other girls.

[Nomad77]

Yes, this is why it is better to ask a girl out directly rather than ask her for her phone number. Most girls won't have a problem giving you their number then stringing you along but very few will agree to go out with you then flake on you. My whole strategy in meeting girls is to get rejected as quickly as possible to screen out NO girls. I might lose some Maybe girls in the process but I will also find them much more quickly.

Most guys do the opposite. They drag out the interaction with the girl hoping that it will build enough attraction and rapport for the girl to agree to go out with them. But in my experience a girl usually knows whether she is willing to go out with you or not within a relatively short amount of time. And even if she is unsure, she will say something like maybe. There is a book I have mentioned before called Go for No. That's what this is about. I want a girl to tell me NO earlier rather than later, so I can stop wasting my time.

[OnlyMarryInTajikistan]

(08-29-2014 09:42 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

One of the reasons guys do this is simply because we all want the hottest looking girls and are willing to go to great lengths to get them. Unfortunately, for many of us, the hotter the girl the more likely she will be a NO girl. Should you put in the time and effort on a hot girl that isn't given you much to play it? I would say don't do it. Work your way up to these girls. Start with the girls you are sure are Maybe girls and gradually work your way up. If you are stuck at some level then it means you may have to work on yourself and your inner game more because remember, as you move up to the hotter girls, you are going to be competing with guys like me

You absolutely should not correlate a girl's attractiveness with her receptivity. I hate to use these terms, but it is a huge limiting belief.

Some reading from someone who put this into words better than I ever could:

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/07/1...ur-league/

[Nomad77]

@Marry I don't know where this heartiste guy is living but here in US it's rare to meet a 9/10 that isn't already in a relationship. And, I don't write from a theoretical point of view, I write from a personal experience point of view and my target market is this upper range of girls. Come down to Miami and let's go out and boldly ask out a bunch of 9/10 and let's see how many of them say yes. Or just look around for Roosh's busted guy test. How many 9/10 do you see walking around with guys in the 6/7 range in looks, money, and social status? Here in the US, it's more likely to be the other way around.

I have never met a hot girl that ever complained about not being asked out. What I have met, are girls complaining about not being asked out by guys they want or consider up to their standard.

[OnlyMarryInTajikistan]

(09-02-2014 08:47 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

@Marry I don't know where this heartiste guy is living but here in US it's rare to meet a 9/10 that isn't already in a relationship. And, I don't write from a theoretical point of view, I write from a personal experience point of view and my target market is this upper range of girls. Come down to Miami and let's go out and boldly ask out a bunch of 9/10 and let's see how many of them say yes. Or just look around for Roosh's busted guy test. How many 9/10 do you see walking around with guys in the 6/7 range in looks, money, and social status? Here in the US, it's more likely to be the other way around.

Roissy is a DC blog.

The problem with most guys is that they get nervous around top girls and spout bad game due to messed up inner game. Hence, the girl doesn't see an attractive man, she sees a wreck who believes he's not enough. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Nomad77]

Well, he must be doing something magically in DC, since Roosh has labeled that city one of the worst in the US.

Do you know what is the difference between theory and reality? Every fucking thing that can possible go wrong

[OnlyMarryInTajikistan]

(09-02-2014 08:58 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Well, he must be doing something magically in DC, since Roosh has labeled that city one of the worst in the US.

Do you know what is the difference between theory and reality? Every fucking thing that can possible go wrong

Theory is based on reality. Goes to show that, if it applies even in DC, it is a universal rule.

High value women date high value men. Ask yourself, would a 7 lead you through the escalation and tolerate a complete lack of game or value? Then why would a 9 tolerate that?

The problem 9s face is that the pool of high value men they can choose from is significantly smaller. A man who spits good game at a 7 is often a nervous wreck towards a 9. How many men truly believe their worth is enough for the best of the best, or that the best of the best must prove themselves to HIM? How many men have enough of an abundance of 9s to walk away with no regret? Even some of the best players lack this fundamental mindset.
These are the men these women want, they want the VALUE that 7s have access to by virtue of their perceived accessibility.

The few guys that are in this position are picky motherfuckers. If the girl's personaliity isn't up to par she will get dumped like an ophan.

Do not underestimate the importance of inner game. You will never get a girl you believe you don't deserve, take that as a maxim.

[Nomad77]

Great! Lets go to DC and see him do it I don't write for the exceptional guy with tight inner and outer game. I doubt they need to be reading anything from me or anyone else. I write for the average guy with average game. I write for guys like me. Guys who have a regular job and can't dedicated their life to Game and picking up women. I am not interested in being the next Roosh or this heartiste guy and neither are most men. I just want to spend the least amount of my time and energy getting decent women to have a half decent relationship whether it's just sex or something more.

In that article is a video from The Good Looking Loser guy. In his article, he states his rejection rate is 60% and his closure rate is between 5 - 10%. And this is from a guy who is an expert at picking up women like Roosh. Take an average guy and those numbers can only get worse. The average guy simply don't have the time, energy, and desire to do the necessary number of approaches to get sex with a lot of women. I know I don't. So for the limited time, energy, and desire I do have I have to stack the odds in my favor as much as possible. I have to filter hard if I want to see any kind of reasonable results.

I am not saying don't approach hot girls by all means approach every girl you find attractive. What I am saying is don't waste your time on them if you they are not giving you much to work with. In my experience guys waste a tremendous amount of time on girls that are going nowhere.

[OnlyMarryInTajikistan]

(09-02-2014 09:41 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Great! Lets go to DC and see him do it I don't write for the exceptional guy with tight inner and outer game. I doubt they need to be reading anything from me or anyone else. I write for the average guy with average game. I write for guys like me. Guys who have a regular job and can't dedicated their life to Game and picking up women. I am not interested in being the next Roosh or this heartiste guy and neither are most men. I just want to spend the least amount of my time and energy getting decent women to have a half decent relationship whether it's just sex or something more.

In that article is a video from The Good Looking Loser guy. In his article, he states his rejection rate is 60% and his closure rate is between 5 - 10%. And this is from a guy who is an expert at picking up women like Roosh. Take an average guy and those numbers can only get worse. The average guy simply don't have the time, energy, and desire to do the necessary number of approaches to get sex with a lot of women. I know I don't. So for the limited time, energy, and desire I do have I have to stack the odds in my favor as much as possible. I have to filter hard if I want to see any kind of reasonable results.

I am not saying don't approach hot girls by all means approach every girl you find attractive. What I am saying is don't waste your time on them if you they are not giving you much to work with. In my experience guys waste a tremendous amount of time on girls that are going nowhere.

Of course. While everything I wrote above is still true, the number's game applies to every girl, attractive and not.

What I am calling out is guys who try to correlate the perks of the number's game to a girl's attractiveness. They approach an attractive girl who rejects them or has a boyfriend, and try to relate it to her hotness in some way. Has a 7 never rejected them? Do 7s not have boyfriends, or 6s or 5s?

This hot girl paradox implies that attractive women are attainable, just as 7s are attainable. BUT, if you want a 9 from cold approach you must do the same as if you want a 7. You must play the number's game, meaning that if you have to approach 20 7s to get one, then you will have to approach 20 9s to get one. Most guys haven't approached a 9 in their life because of all their preconceptions.

What I am trying to refute is the idea that the odds are significantly worse with attractive women. If you are a high value man, they are the same, if not better. If it takes 20 7s to get a 7, it shouldn't take more than 20 9s to get a 9. I am refuting those who say that a man who must do 20 approaches on 7s must do 50, or 100, or 500 on 9s because they are so much harder. Simply not the case.

[OnlyMarryInTajikistan]

Dupe.

[Nomad77]

I agree but there is one problem with your math. It's a lot harder to find a 9 and than a 7. In any given sample of women there will a significantly higher number of 7s than 9s. So let's assume that out of every 10 women there is one 9 and four 7s. To find 20 7s you will need to go through 50 women. To find 20 9s you will need to go through 200 women! And this is assuming an even distribution which in most cases it won't be. So just finding the 20 9s to approach will be exponentially more difficult than the 20 7s. Also I am not a "high value" male. So I am going to assume that that would put me at a disadvantage since you already stated that a 9 will be looking for a high value male.

[Nomad77]

Here is an extreme example of what I mean when I say guys can waste a lot of time on girl:

http://www.rooshv.com/the-pitiful-story-...talian-man

[OnlyMarryInTajikistan]

(09-02-2014 10:48 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

I agree but there is one problem with your math. It's a lot harder to find a 9 and than a 7. In any given sample of women there will a significantly higher number of 7s than 9s. So let's assume that out of every 10 women there is one 9 and four 7s. To find 20 7s you will need to go through 50 women. To find 20 9s you will need to go through 200 women! And this is assuming an even distribution which in most cases it won't be. So just finding the 20 9s to approach will be exponentially more difficult than the 20 7s. Also I am not a "high value" male. So I am going to assume that that would put me at a disadvantage since you already stated that a 9 will be looking for a high value male.

Do you have game? Then you are a high value male.

Stop referring back to society's model of money and cars. Those are logical concerns, women were designed by evolution during times when these things did not exist. To survive they needed tribe leaders, but they were unintelligent animals and could not classify who was leader and who was not. So their emotions were designed to respond to traits or leadership, the emotions did all the work for them. The emotions of a 9 are not different from the emotions of a 7, she is a person with the same fears, weaknesses and emotions as everyone else.

A girl today is an outdated machine. As far as her emotions are concerned, she is still that unprotected savage looking for protection from a man who can provide it. Thankfully, game has allowed us to identify what traits need to be transmitted to set these emotions off. If you take these on, then you are a high-value male. Period.

Look at the sexual history of your average 9. Sure, of course she has fucked men for their money. If you had rich girls throwing themselves on you, you would do the same. BUT, they have all had romances, long term relationships and even fallen in love with dirt-poor alphas. Again, put yourself in her shoes. If you could use women for money, you would. But, if you find an incredibly sweet pretty girl who has no money, she is on a different track. Women are not angels, if men throw money at her she will happily take it. She has many needs and wants, whether that be cold cash, one-off sex or strong emotions. Who would you rather be, the beta she fakes love for in exchange for cash, or the alpha she falls in love with? A 9 will have a mixed sexual history of both.

I agree that it is harder to find a 9 than a 7, which is why it is so important to approach when you find one, or go somewhere with an abundance of them. It is adequate to say that getting a 9 is harder because it is harder to get the approaches in. It is not correct to say that they, as individuals, will be more inaccessible or more likely to turn you down.

[Every10GivesMeA10]

I see you've been reading up on GLL's methods!

[kinjutsu]

(09-02-2014 08:58 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Well, he must be doing something magically in DC, since Roosh has labeled that city one of the worst in the US.

Do you know what is the difference between theory and reality? Every fucking thing that can possible go wrong

I stopped reading the comments at CH because a lot it is theoretical.
Everything they say is too fucking perfect. I have over 200 notches and the majority of them weren't smooth as silk. I'v made mistakes and were able to recover enough to get he bang.

Also a lot of your personal success rate from approach to bang is target selection. Meaning that, are you going to places where the females would be interested in "you"?

I've been in places where it was very difficult to get eye contact with the bar staff, but i've also been in places where the coat check girl all the way up to the servers wear giving me the "fuck me" eyes.

Say what you will about skin color but it can be very polarizing. You can get rejected by the girl before you've even seen her but you can meet a lot of girls very quickly if they're into "your brand".

[Nomad77]

Thank you kinjutsu. This is exactly what I am saying. It is better to spend more time upfront in selecting the right girls than to spend a lot of time and energy trying to convert the wrong girls. Target selection is something a lot of guys overlook because they are being told that the right "game" can overcoming everything.

[Akula]

(08-29-2014 10:13 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

One of the reasons a lot of guys make girls into a Maybe girls is what I call Relationship Projection - (deserves it own thread). They meet a girl they are attracted to and start creating an imaginary relationship in their mind about the girl. They do this because they are craving female affection and love - something we all need. But the moment you start to do this you will begin to act needy and you will break the cardinal rule of always following the girl emotionally.

This is just so very true and a great way of stating it. I (and a lot of other beta guys, most of 'em in fact) was a textbook case of this "Relationship Projection" guy growing up and well into my 20s. I was brought up Catholic in a female dominated house and constantly told I needed to 'find the right girl', to always 'respect women' and that 'women choose the man, so you gotta treat 'em right!' The mainstream media's views fully backed all that up.

But it's all a recipe for disaster in terms of understanding women and generating attraction, let alone fostering a 'relationship' (which IMO should be the last thing any gamer is searching for anyway).

[Nomad77]

Direct from the Master himself Mr. Krauser:

8. Quality overreach (When you make a hot NO girl a Maybe girl this is what you are doing!)

When you see a really hot girl with a boyfriend, have a good look at him. He’s not a short pot-bellied old man with a comb-over and ill-fitting Primark t-shirt is he? Hot girls only have sex with high value men. Now, as daygamers we are lucky that there is a carefully-honed system to deliver that value in a short space of time but….. the value has to be there. The single biggest piece of value a daygamer can have (and which at least 60% don’t have) is… a personality.

The fuck ladder is real. If you’re currently getting occasional 5s then you needn’t bother opening higher than a 6. By all means do so as an experiment in breaking limiting beliefs but know that you’ve got no hope in hell of fucking them. Go dig up a photo of the hottest girl you fucked in the last two years. That’s what you should be opening. If she’s a 5 then leave the catwalk models to the men who actually have a chance.

And yes, you probably bristled at the last two paragraphs. Going for turbo-hotties that blow you out is actually avoidance – you are avoiding girls you might fuck because getting blown out by the 6s is a bigger blow to your ego.

[OnlyMarryInTajikistan]

(09-05-2014 05:30 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Direct from the Master himself Mr. Krauser:

8. Quality overreach (When you make a hot NO girl a Maybe girl this is what you are doing!)

When you see a really hot girl with a boyfriend, have a good look at him. He’s not a short pot-bellied old man with a comb-over and ill-fitting Primark t-shirt is he? Hot girls only have sex with high value men. Now, as daygamers we are lucky that there is a carefully-honed system to deliver that value in a short space of time but….. the value has to be there. The single biggest piece of value a daygamer can have (and which at least 60% don’t have) is… a personality.

The fuck ladder is real. If you’re currently getting occasional 5s then you needn’t bother opening higher than a 6. By all means do so as an experiment in breaking limiting beliefs but know that you’ve got no hope in hell of fucking them. Go dig up a photo of the hottest girl you fucked in the last two years. That’s what you should be opening. If she’s a 5 then leave the catwalk models to the men who actually have a chance.

And yes, you probably bristled at the last two paragraphs. Going for turbo-hotties that blow you out is actually avoidance – you are avoiding girls you might fuck because getting blown out by the 6s is a bigger blow to your ego.

He is referring to the Indian chodes that blow up the bootcamps in London.

There are often cases with men who have serious potential and have not fucked high quality women because of inner game issues. Check out a friend of Krauser's, Tom Torero. This is one the ugliest motherfuckers I have seen in my life, and there are reports of him pulling catwalk models.

The "value" that Krauser is talking about is the value of the game model, assuming you are not physically deformed. If you can take a man like Tom Torero and change him to the point where he can pull catwalk models, then pretty much everyone, except the dregs of society, can do it aswell.

The subtext of your post is that you don't believe you have the value. His last paragraph, for instance, is wrong. No man is born with a notch-count of 10 supermodels. A player must build himself, particularly his inner self, and then approach until he achieves it. There was a time when Krauser himself had fucked no models, and then he fucked one. His value was built, he went from being low-value to being high-value. This is the journey of game. Same should apply to you, and anyone who has these limiting beliefs.

[kavakid]

don't know if anyone mentioned it, but during a few days each month a girl is hornier than usual. Because of her menstrual cycle she is fertile. I'm willing to bet that 75% of yes girls are on that horny part of the cycle. They're fertile. Wear protection!

(Thanks johnny soporno for the above tip)

[Byron]

Thanks for the reminder

[Yatagan]

Had an experience with a "no girl" earlier today that in retrospect I should've never bothered with after my first encounter with her. Essentially I was trying to daygame this cashier chick from the local supermarket whom was very icy and aloof when I first hit her last week and sure enough the behavior continued this second time around. At that point I just went for the close just so I can clear any doubts from my mind.

I'm definitely not bothering with dames who don't maintain eye contact and appear receptive to my bantering after this. Like Nomad stated in his OP, I errored too much on the side of hope vs reality.