[Echoes]

It's a massive problem, no doubt. I have the greatest sympathies for the girls themselves and their families. Fortunately the police weren't obstructed in the investigations.

I just think it's a bit of a media lie that only Muslims are involved in this type of thing, look at the Welsh care home scandals, the Islington council of the 80's being basically infiltrated by peadophiles, the break up of British paedo rings who escaped to the continent at the end of the 80's and set up abuse networks there - none of these were adequately investigated because they would have led to bigger names. It just annoys me this blatant, disgusting abuse of power is covered up and ignored in the press whilst Muslims (who were definitely guilty in this case and very much deserve their sentences) are thrown under the bus.

[Benoit]

(12-30-2014 07:28 AM)Echoes Wrote:  

It's a massive problem, no doubt. I have the greatest sympathies for the girls themselves and their families. Fortunately the police weren't obstructed in the investigations.

I just think it's a bit of a media lie that only Muslims are involved in this type of thing, look at the Welsh care home scandals, the Islington council of the 80's being basically infiltrated by peadophiles, the break up of British paedo rings who escaped to the continent at the end of the 80's and set up abuse networks there - none of these were adequately investigated because they would have led to bigger names. It just annoys me this blatant, disgusting abuse of power is covered up and ignored in the press whilst Muslims (who were definitely guilty in this case and very much deserve their sentences) are thrown under the bus.

There's literally orders of magnitude difference between this case and your examples.

The North Wales children's home investigation ended up in 140 allegations claims covering 29 years

In Rotherham the estimate is 1,400 abused children over 16 years.


I'd rather no children be abused, but since we don't live in a magical dream world I'd prefer the police to focus on shutting down these current grooming gangs, who are mostly muslims of Pakistani origin.

[Echoes]

We all agree that child abuse is wrong and horrific. I have no point to make besides exposing some hypocrisies.

The North Wales investigations were also hampered by crooked policing, a cover up involving a former Thatcher aid (Sir Peter Morrison, he's dead so libel doesn't apply) and the suspicious deaths of five former care home boys killed in an arson attack.

I'm not doubting the extent and awfulness of events in Rotherham I'm just pointing out that the Rotherham investigation was (eventually) able to proceed properly, whilst others throughout the previous decades have been hampered. You only have to look at the 'Sir' Jimmy Savile case to see how some people get away with these crimes.

EDIT: Rotherham, I'm on a phone so auto-correct keeps stepping in.

[Benoit]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/hom...22666.html

Quote:

Two councillors and a police officer in Rotherham have been accused of having sex with victims of abuse in the South Yorkshire town, it has been claimed today.

...

The police officer has been also accused of passing information on to abusers in the town. A colleague of the officer has reportedly been accused of failing to take appropriate action after receiving information about the officer's conduct. Both have been reported to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

[Maciano]

(12-30-2014 07:28 AM)Echoes Wrote:  

It's a massive problem, no doubt. I have the greatest sympathies for the girls themselves and their families. Fortunately the police weren't obstructed in the investigations.

I just think it's a bit of a media lie that only Muslims are involved in this type of thing, look at the Welsh care home scandals, the Islington council of the 80's being basically infiltrated by peadophiles, the break up of British paedo rings who escaped to the continent at the end of the 80's and set up abuse networks there - none of these were adequately investigated because they would have led to bigger names. It just annoys me this blatant, disgusting abuse of power is covered up and ignored in the press whilst Muslims (who were definitely guilty in this case and very much deserve their sentences) are thrown under the bus.

Thrown under the bus?!

The Rotherham council let 1400, mostly white (& some Sikh) girls get abused for over 10 years to NOT offend the muslim vote and/or have muslims stereotyped.

That was the story! Not just the abuse, it was the PC coverup.

The reverse is true. We've been hearing about Catholics & Jimmy Savilles forever because they are associated with the mainstream.

Unbelievable.

[GeroMeroHero]

It's not like Rotherham is the only grooming gang nor the only example of Muslim immigrants (usually second generation and young) being overrepresented in rape.

They account for what? 77% of rapes in Sweden despite being 5% of the pop.
This video goes over much the same being the case in the UK. It is pretty judicious so you can ignore the video and simply peruse the sources.
We can safely say that there is a problem and in any other era they would have been deported and been lucky to leave with their lives.

[Wutang]

(02-05-2015 04:38 PM)Maciano Wrote:  

(12-30-2014 07:28 AM)Echoes Wrote:  

It's a massive problem, no doubt. I have the greatest sympathies for the girls themselves and their families. Fortunately the police weren't obstructed in the investigations.

I just think it's a bit of a media lie that only Muslims are involved in this type of thing, look at the Welsh care home scandals, the Islington council of the 80's being basically infiltrated by peadophiles, the break up of British paedo rings who escaped to the continent at the end of the 80's and set up abuse networks there - none of these were adequately investigated because they would have led to bigger names. It just annoys me this blatant, disgusting abuse of power is covered up and ignored in the press whilst Muslims (who were definitely guilty in this case and very much deserve their sentences) are thrown under the bus.

The reverse is true. We've been hearing about Catholics & Jimmy Savilles forever because they are associated with the mainstream.

Unbelievable.

Yep pretty ridiculous. I think the media really does have it out for the Catholic church. They are totally a safe target too so when people whip themselves into a circle frenzy over someone being so edgy for making anti-Catholic jokes I just roll my eyes.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(02-05-2015 10:39 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

(02-05-2015 04:38 PM)Maciano Wrote:  

The reverse is true. We've been hearing about Catholics & Jimmy Savilles forever because they are associated with the mainstream.

Unbelievable.

Yep pretty ridiculous. I think the media really does have it out for the Catholic church. They are totally a safe target too so when people whip themselves into a circle frenzy over someone being so edgy for making anti-Catholic jokes I just roll my eyes.

The Catholic church is an arch-enemy of the power-elite for centuries now.

I won't deny there is a problem there, because priests are men who mostly are not designed to be celibate. The church only established celibacy between 1000 and 1400 - mainly because they did not want the children of priests inherit the land. And even then centuries later priests had mistresses and illegitimate children.

But the few priests that exist pale versus the very real problem that Europeans have with Muslim immigrants (regardless whether 1st or 3rd generation).

[Saweeep]

(02-05-2015 10:39 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

(02-05-2015 04:38 PM)Maciano Wrote:  

(12-30-2014 07:28 AM)Echoes Wrote:  

It's a massive problem, no doubt. I have the greatest sympathies for the girls themselves and their families. Fortunately the police weren't obstructed in the investigations.

I just think it's a bit of a media lie that only Muslims are involved in this type of thing, look at the Welsh care home scandals, the Islington council of the 80's being basically infiltrated by peadophiles, the break up of British paedo rings who escaped to the continent at the end of the 80's and set up abuse networks there - none of these were adequately investigated because they would have led to bigger names. It just annoys me this blatant, disgusting abuse of power is covered up and ignored in the press whilst Muslims (who were definitely guilty in this case and very much deserve their sentences) are thrown under the bus.

The reverse is true. We've been hearing about Catholics & Jimmy Savilles forever because they are associated with the mainstream.

Unbelievable.

Yep pretty ridiculous. I think the media really does have it out for the Catholic church. They are totally a safe target too so when people whip themselves into a circle frenzy over someone being so edgy for making anti-Catholic jokes I just roll my eyes.

I don't know where you are from WuTang but foreigners often don't realise that the UK is a Church of England Christian country, not a Catholic one.

We have quite a long history of suspicion, outright hatred and violence towards Catholics. 500 years or so.

I think the average person on the street here views Catholics with similar, but obviously much less, suspicion than our Muslim friends.

Either way, this Rotherham thing has still a long way to run...expect much carpet sweeping to continue. We must not offend our immigrant populations, after all, no matter what they get up to.

[mikado]

The West has problems with uneducated, poor and unskilled immigrants (South Asia, Somalia, Maghreb, Pakistan, Mexico etc).
Some of those happen to be muslim. Some are catholics too (Mexico) and still cause trouble.

I think we should look at the bigger picture. Just because immigrants are not muslims does not mean they will integrate better (US citizens know this better than me, with the immigrants from North and South America).
On the contrary, being muslim does not mean they will integrate worse either.
The factor that influences the most the integration is not solely the religion (though it definitely plays a part) , but the culture of the country of origin, and how the immigrant viewed the host country culturally and socially.

Between those who just assume that Muslims always behave the same culturally (whether they come from Pakistan, Maghreb, or Subsaharian Africa), or those who assume that every Muslim behaves peacefully (they are not. The example I cited the most on this forum is the racism from some North African and Arab Muslims towards other Subsaharian Muslims) , there are a bunch of guys who have a too much manichean vision. However, like it was already discussed in this thread, the cultural factor plays a lot (most of the accused ones are of Pakistani origin). I would not be surprised that they fall in the categories I cited (uneducated, poor and unskilled immigrants).
Making an amalgam between the cultural behaviours of Muslims from Tunisia (who recently beat and stole from Black Africans just because they lost at the African Cup of Nations against Equatorial Guinea, even though the victims were clearly not from that country or culture) and the cultural behaviours of the Soufi Muslims from Senegal, or Togo, or Ghana, or those of Qatar, who also happen to treat inhumanly their Black African Workers, Muslim or not, is at best misleading, at worse blatant lying and ill-intentionned.

Calling for the end of muslim immigration will not work (at least, not before a long ass time), because of the today's mentality of most of western societies. Because discrimination based on religion can't work, since we live in laic countries. However, calling for the end of uneducated, poor and unskilled immigration might have a better chance. It resonates more in people's heads and hearts, and threatens a bit less their leftist views (since the economic crisis and educationnal failures affects them also).

I understand that some guys, including on RVF need a common denominator enemy, to blame their problems on. However, a bit of objectivity should be kept to truly find a solution. Even if it means thinking way more (Does he have a useful skill? huge potential as engineer or scientist? means to sustain himself without abusing welfare? Does his country of origin allow girls to not wear hidjabs? Is rape widespread in his country of origin? etc etc) , it will be more better and conclusive than just aiming for one question (Is he muslim? shot him then!)

My 2cents.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(02-06-2015 04:10 AM)mikado Wrote:  

...

Calling for the end of muslim immigration will not work (at least, not before a long ass time), because of the today's mentality of most of western societies. Because discrimination based on religion can't work, since we live in laic countries. However, calling for the end of uneducated, poor and unskilled immigration might have a better chance. It resonates more in people's heads and hearts, and threatens a bit less their leftist views (since the economic crisis and educationnal failures affects them also).

I understand that some guys, including on RVF need a common denominator enemy, to blame their problems on. However, a bit of objectivity should be kept to truly find a solution. Even if it means thinking way more (Does he have a useful skill? huge potential as engineer or scientist? means to sustain himself without abusing welfare? Does his country of origin allow girls to not wear hidjabs? Is rape widespread in his country of origin? etc etc) , it will be more better and conclusive than just aiming for one question (Is he muslim? shot him then!)

My 2cents.

No one is really blaming those primitive Muslims for doing what they are bound to be doing when suddenly living in a country where they perceive all girls to be sluts meanwhile having to deal with a much lower sexual market value themselves.

And yes - a stop to Muslim or generally to immigration itself would work. People are pissed off at the elite who are doing exactly that. I personally think it's done by design and Muslims are led to the slaughter in the end. It's possible that a global unconventional war will be coming if it has not started yet. The numbers of the Muslims in the West are not sufficient yet to wage such a conflict, but given 20-40 years - who knows? In the end we will have a complete Orwellian super-state and a completely utterly wiped out Muslim world - maybe even some countries literally depopulated.

There is a systematic problem with the Muslim faith - the best way to deal with it is how the Chinese are doing it - no tolerance, no extremism, hard punishment for all transgressions.

Otherwise it all goes the way of Sweden - guys should visit the country before it resembles Iraq:

UN general life quality expectations:
   

And why should any indigenous population accept any immigration with an average unemployment rate of 10%-20% in the West? This is not Germany in the 1970s where there was a net negative unemployment rate!

https://imgur.com/a/v23KM/



And fuck the consensus.

I grew up with one Persian and one Turk in class and they were the nicest guys you could meet. I studied economics with another Turk who was a dear friend.
Later in life I met other Persians (all scientists) who were great people. I also run Game actively with an Afghani (second generation whose father is an Imam) - we have only things in common, because we generally don't drink in clubs - he is now going to marry a blonde German girl.

All those people were assessed by me based on themselves personally - not on their religion - and most were rather level-headed and probably secular even if we did not discuss that. They are as far removed from the Rotherham bastards as can be, but still they acknowledge that there is a problem with the Muslim faith - they just prefer not to discuss it, because what can they do?

[Benoit]

(02-06-2015 04:10 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Calling for the end of muslim immigration will not work (at least, not before a long ass time), because of the today's mentality of most of western societies. Because discrimination based on religion can't work, since we live in laic countries. However, calling for the end of uneducated, poor and unskilled immigration might have a better chance. It resonates more in people's heads and hearts, and threatens a bit less their leftist views (since the economic crisis and educationnal failures affects them also).

I understand that some guys, including on RVF need a common denominator enemy, to blame their problems on. However, a bit of objectivity should be kept to truly find a solution. Even if it means thinking way more (Does he have a useful skill? huge potential as engineer or scientist? means to sustain himself without abusing welfare? Does his country of origin allow girls to not wear hidjabs? Is rape widespread in his country of origin? etc etc) , it will be more better and conclusive than just aiming for one question (Is he muslim? shot him then!)

My 2cents.

Like you said, almost all of these grooming gangs are of Pakistani origin, and that's a muslim country.

The human brain groups and stereotypes people automatically, you are suggesting a solution that requires people to consider others as individuals - biology says that's not going to happen any time soon.

If you want the public to see muslims as educated, socially compatible people like yourself, then the uneducated and unskilled ones have to go.

Otherwise they will be the public face of your faith and the basis for all comparisons people draw. There's no way around this.

[mikado]

Some good arguments.

However I repeat myself: you are assuming that BECAUSE THEY ARE MUSLIMS they are necessary told to rape, treat girls like sluts (except mother and sisters), etc etc.

It would be a circular discussion if I told you that's not exactly what's in the Quran. You would just answer the contrary, and the discussion would not be any productive.

HOWEVER, there is something sure: muslim people behave WAY DIFFERENTLY , based on the culture and values they grew up with. And this is something you and other guys of western world (and non-western too) are not willing to accept.
Maybe some do not because it's too complicated to think about, and it's easier to keep a manichean distinction.
Some others might do so because they are effectively malignant, and just want to watch the world burn.
It does not make your opinion less valid, but it calls for a deeper analysis of the situation, instead of just looking at the surface.

It's pointless to find a solution non-based on war if people are not willing to recognize that fact, that culture influences the way religion is practiced.
I repeat it: you are calling all muslims "primitive". What makes you say so? I am sure that a lot of muslim guys are quite socially aware, intelligent, integrate well, etc. The difference between them and the pakistani gang in UK is their culture, skills and education.

Now how do you explain the antagonism within Islam itself, between North Africa, Somalia and rest of and Subsaharian Africa for example?
Although a large percentage of both regions practice majorly Islam, why are there such differences between them on the African soil, and ALSO when they come to the West?
Or are you going to tell me that they all behave the same?
If you say yes, then bring the sources on.


@Benoit
I agree. However, muslim countries still differ a lot. It's like blaming the whole christianity for attacks made by Christians in Centrafrican Republic (who are now controlling the country). Would you hereby classify all christians in the same hostile, beheading, and violent group?
You can't consider people individually. But you could classify them on a country, or global region level (Middle East, Pakistan and Bangladesh,Somalia, Maghreb, West Africa, etc etc)

[Samseau]

(02-06-2015 04:41 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Some good arguments.

However I repeat myself: you are assuming that BECAUSE THEY ARE MUSLIMS they are necessary told to rape, treat girls like sluts (except mother and sisters), etc etc.

It would be a circular discussion if I told you that's not exactly what's in the Quran. You would just answer the contrary, and the discussion would not be any productive.

HOWEVER, there is something sure: muslim people behave WAY DIFFERENTLY , based on the culture and values they grew up with. And this is something you and other guys of western world (and non-western too) are not willing to accept.
Maybe some do not because it's too complicated to think about, and it's easier to keep a manichean distinction.
Some others might do so because they are effectively malignant, and just want to watch the world burn.
It does not make your opinion less valid, but it calls for a deeper analysis of the situation, instead of just looking at the surface.

It's pointless to find a solution non-based on war if people are not willing to recognize that fact, that culture influences the way religion is practiced.
I repeat it: you are calling all muslims "primitive". What makes you say so? I am sure that a lot of muslim guys are quite socially aware, intelligent, integrate well, etc. The difference between them and the pakistani gang in UK is their culture, skills and education.

Now how do you explain the antagonism within Islam itself, between North Africa, Somalia and rest of and Subsaharian Africa for example?
Although a large percentage of both regions practice majorly Islam, why are there such differences between them on the African soil, and ALSO when they come to the West?
Or are you going to tell me that they all behave the same?
If you say yes, then bring the sources on.


@Benoit
I agree. However, muslim countries still differ a lot. It's like blaming the whole christianity for attacks made by Christians in Centrafrican Republic (who are now controlling the country). Would you hereby classify all christians in the same hostile, beheading, and violent group?
You can't consider people individually. But you could classify them on a country, or global region level (Middle East, Pakistan and Bangladesh,Somalia, Maghreb, West Africa, etc etc)

Look man - people will stop treating the rapists and child groomers "as muslims" when they government stops protecting them "as muslims."

Get it? Until then, your "Not all muslims are like that" is pointless. There is a specific political correctness in place to protect muslims NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO, so of course the average man is learning how to hate muslims.

[mikado]

(02-06-2015 05:00 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Look man - people will stop treating the rapists and child groomers "as muslims" when they government stops protecting them "as muslims."

Get it? Until then, your "Not all muslims are like that" is pointless. There is a specific political correctness in place to protect muslims NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO, so of course the average man is learning how to hate muslims.

that part is key.
Effectively, this does more harm than good. However the opposite is equally as bad (discriminating against muslims no matter what they do).
So you think going the opposite way is the best thing to do?
I am persuaded the average man mentality will change if it starts from forums like this one. By actually recognizing the differences between cultures, locations on the globe and education of people (both commoners AND governments) , we might avoid a war.

Call me an idealist if you want.

[Samseau]

(02-06-2015 05:07 AM)mikado Wrote:  

(02-06-2015 05:00 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Look man - people will stop treating the rapists and child groomers "as muslims" when they government stops protecting them "as muslims."

Get it? Until then, your "Not all muslims are like that" is pointless. There is a specific political correctness in place to protect muslims NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO, so of course the average man is learning how to hate muslims.

that part is key.
Effectively, this does more harm than good. However the opposite is equally as bad (discriminating against muslims no matter what they do).
So you think going the opposite way is the best thing to do?
I am persuaded the average man mentality will change if it starts from forums like this one. By actually recognizing the differences between cultures, locations on the globe and education of people (both commoners AND governments) , we might avoid a war.

Call me an idealist if you want.

Until the laws and policies which protect these scum changes, then people aren't going to become more tolerant of anyone.

[mikado]

How do you change these laws then?
I think going frontally and attacking religion is the worst way to do so.
However, requiring a certain education level, income means and (after you were accepted) proofs from european fellows that you and your children are integrating well (participating in the city activities, being vouched for by neighbours and the schools of your children, low reliance on welfare and a job where you are actively contributing, etc), no serious crime (anything other than rape, murders, violence in general etc - smoking joint is "fine") are measures that may succede more.

[monsterboy]

What exactly is "asian" in England?

South or east asian?

[Constitution45]

(02-06-2015 09:52 AM)monsterboy Wrote:  

What exactly is "asian" in England?

South or east asian?

South Asian most of the time. Pakistan, Bengali, Indian, Afghani.
If Brits refer to Chinese, Japanese, its usually by their country or "oriental".

[Saweeep]

(02-06-2015 09:52 AM)monsterboy Wrote:  

What exactly is "asian" in England?

South or east asian?

Subcontinental really.

[Bushido]

(02-06-2015 04:10 AM)mikado Wrote:  

The West has problems with uneducated, poor and unskilled immigrants (South Asia, Somalia, Maghreb, Pakistan, Mexico etc).
Some of those happen to be muslim. Some are catholics too (Mexico) and still cause trouble.

I think we should look at the bigger picture. Just because immigrants are not muslims does not mean they will integrate better (US citizens know this better than me, with the immigrants from North and South America).

I'd trade America's Mexicans for our Pakistanis and Somalians in a heartbeat. I'm confident that most Brits would agree. As a group, Mexicans are not even close to comparison.

England must be one of the least racist places on earth. As it is, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and others all intermingle with few problems. Not zero problems, of course. But for the most part, everyone gets along OK.

Time and time again though, it is groups coming from Islamic countries that stir up shit. And it's not just with the native locals. Pakistanis are by far the worst immigrants that we have ever welcomed into the UK, closely followed by Somalians. This isn't some random discrimination on our part Mikado. Even if not all Muslims are the same, the bad ones are still causing huge problems that will inevitably end up getting the entire group blamed.

[Rutting Elephant]

Catholicism is irrevocably tainted by its deliberate shielding of innumerable serial child rapists from prosecution, a conspiracy proven to have been authorized at the highest levels.
Rotherham is very similar -- just as the Catholic Church relies on the Global South, a significant portion of British politicians must retain the support of minorities and the white-guilt demographic at all costs.

[DeWitt]

(02-06-2015 04:31 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Otherwise it all goes the way of Sweden - guys should visit the country before it resembles Iraq:

UN general life quality expectations:

And why should any indigenous population accept any immigration with an average unemployment rate of 10%-20% in the West? This is not Germany in the 1970s where there was a net negative unemployment rate!
https://imgur.com/a/v23KM/



And fuck the consensus.

I know that I will be accused of downplaying the narrative that Sweden is San Francisco on steroids, but I'll be damned if I don't speak up to people who are feeling entitled to having opinions on subjects that they are completely oblivious of.

To people, who are mostly of the American persuasion, Sweden is the ultimate straw man. Liberals will gladly believe whatever bullshit about Sweden that they want, the idea of a remote progressive utopia is an idea that they refuse to give up. Kinda like how the commies here believe that all Americans are obese idiots who travel by mobility scooter or SUV whose only reading material is the Bible.

American conservatives and others who consider themselves "enlightened" compared to those indoctrinated progressives, do their best to be no worse than these people, by inversing the liberal utopian vision to a hellish nightmare. Which is why we see shit like the image in the quoted post, obviously a Greek economic miracle is laying in wait! Soon they will overtake those krauts when they forfeit the Euro and bring forth the Drachma, no longer burdened by those lazy krauts, the industriousness and ingenuity of the Greek people that has for so long been restrained will finally be unleashed!

But then again, why let silly things like doubt and facts interfere with a great story? It is almost as if you wish that all the nonsense you spout is true.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(02-06-2015 10:38 AM)DeWitt Wrote:  

I know that I will be accused of downplaying the narrative that Sweden is San Francisco on steroids, but I'll be damned if I don't speak up to people who are feeling entitled to having opinions on subjects that they are completely oblivious of.

To people, who are mostly of the American persuasion, Sweden is the ultimate straw man. Liberals will gladly believe whatever bullshit about Sweden that they want, the idea of a remote progressive utopia is an idea that they refuse to give up. Kinda like how the commies here believe that all Americans are obese idiots who travel by mobility scooter or SUV whose only reading material is the Bible.
...
But then again, why let silly things like doubt and facts interfere with a great story? It is almost as if you wish that all the nonsense you spout is true.

What is your bloody point?

Sweden has plenty of fantastic achievements and is still by far safer than many countries, but importing 1% of your bloody population each bloody year via immigration of people who are significantly different from your own is just crazy. If it were Germans, British or even Polish it would not be so bad, but Muslims from countries like Somalia? Also don't forget that many will be having children en masse since that is richly funded by the taxpayer there - that is what is going so wrong there and Sweden is indeed a test-bed for those kind of policies.

You seem to be a strange kind of troll who extolls the virtues of Sweden while also believing in the fairy tales of libertarian 18th century brutal ass-rape economics.

Whether the life quality predictions of the UN will come true remains to be seen - it is just one additional indicator.

[Brian Shima]

People need to stop comparing Muslim immigrants in Europe to Mexican immigrants.....someone did this in another thread, maybe mikado because it was someone trying to downplay Muslim problems and point the finger in other directions. Theres no comparison what so ever and if you actually lived in the US you would know that