[NASA Test Pilot]

I want to put shaking the tree into a broader context. It is not a one-time event where gold goes to some astronomically high number on a chart related to some paper currency. It is more like the amplitude of a (sine) wave. As the amplitude is increasing, based on real world effects, the perceived value of gold (silver) becomes elevated in the minds of the masses. I put forth the notion in another space where there was an opportunity for a revaluation of all currencies relative to gold in 2014 (February) where 114 nationals were signatories of an agreement and the U.S. backed out and decided U.S. dollar hegemony was the path to take.

Examples of the increasing amplitude would be a greater outflow (especially up to the 300 ton mark, where you will probably see $100-$200 types of price swings) of gold on the Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE), greater sales of gold (silver) coins directly from the various mints; the denomination of gold in Yuan on the SGE, the decrease of the physical currency supply in terms of 500 Euro notes (30% of nominal European currency value) and/or $100 bills (75% of most recently issued U.S. currency (note), value); the increased proliferation of zero and especially negative interest rates (on various currencies), which may be related to the decrease in the previously mentioned decline of physical currency. These outward actions will increasingly shake the tree and cause others to consider holding more tangible assets; two of which are gold and silver. The outflow of gold on the SGE or ordering coins (gold and silver) from a national mint are direct manifestations of people taking the gold (silver) into their possession.

For those who are interested, I integrate ideas concerning gold

With the U.S. dollar here:
thread-53166...pid1201257

With the Chinese Yuan here:
thread-52959...pid1213438

With Geo-politics here:
thread-53234.html

[Disco_Volante]

Congrats to everyone who owns gold. The middleeast is heating up by the hour. With the exchange closed Monday, Tuesday will be an insane price spike. You will make some serious money. I would contend every financial crisis becomes worse, simply because technology allows information and goods to travel extremely fast. Entire fortunes can change in mere hours. Anyone not paying attention to the world is going to get their shit handed to them.

[SunW]

Can anyone who lives in the region confirm that WWIII is about to break out?

[rudebwoy]

(02-13-2016 08:19 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  

Congrats to everyone who owns gold. The middleeast is heating up by the hour. With the exchange closed Monday, Tuesday will be an insane price spike. You will make some serious money. I would contend every financial crisis becomes worse, simply because technology allows information and goods to travel extremely fast. Entire fortunes can change in mere hours. Anyone not paying attention to the world is going to get their shit handed to them.

You can't lose with having a few ounces of Gold.

I have alot of Silver and if it breaks $75-100, then I have made good money.

[Olav]

(02-14-2016 01:04 PM)SunW Wrote:  

Can anyone who lives in the region confirm that WWIII is about to break out?

I live there and have no idea what he is talking about. Situation ain't worse than its been for the last 18 months

[Disco_Volante]

I'm just preparing for the worst. I hope gold falls back down so I can load up eventually. I'm just saying there's a ton of reasons why the comex traders could justify it going higher and higher

[NASA Test Pilot]

This is a PM that I sent and I think is very significant in the scheme of things and I will share it here.

Thanks XXX, I was aware of ABX (Allocated Bullion Exchange), but I did not know it had just gone on-line. This is really a BIG deal. This will be great in terms of transfer, which I alluded to as a problem in one of my other posts. I recommended going to the country and purchasing the metal and store it there (and I still do). Also, this may become an (the) avenue in the market when it comes to price discovery, but that will also make it a hostile target to the LBMA and COMEX. This also puts pricing more in the hands of the (gold) producers (as they will be providing direct access from largest wholesale liquidity centers that will source the gold (precious metals) to individuals, investment institutions, or Central Banks). This is a good thing in that it would provide direct access and should provide greater transparency in the gold (and precious metals) market.

My concerns going forward will be to understand the relationships with ABX and Australian laws as well as their agreements with New York and London in particular. This platform could de-lever the bullion banks and hence I would like to understand those 3 agreements and then look for attacks on ABX. JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs which has a direct line to the New York desk at the U.S. Federal Reserve, which in turn serves as the front for the Exchange Stabilization Fund (ESF), both have huge derivative positions in the precious metals (gold) and this will be a direct attack on them.

One of the main positives is that this is an allocated precious metals platform that will not be leveraged and the counter party risks will be minimal. It is not a synthetic market because actual metal will be transferred. I will also be looking for how their Asian locations are tied in with or overlap with Asian Infrastructure and Investment Bank (AIIB) and Asian Development Bank (ADB) circles, which in turn may be related to the development of a gold-trade-note.

I will post my note to you on the forum as I think that it will be helpful.

Thanks for your input, it is significant!

NTP

P.S. This is my 100th post (and I will remember it).

[DamienCasanova]

Wow, this is crazy if true

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-23...and-silver

There are three certain things in life: death, taxes and paying vault storage fees to keep your gold safe. Or at least there were: recently the third of these certainties got somewhat muddied when, over the past year the government of India unleashed an attempt to soft-confiscate the nation's publicly held gold, by offering to pay interest for said gold. Incidentally, the effort has failed miserably as India has been able to collect only a few tons of gold as part of this gold monetization scheme.

Where India succeeded was to finally quash the old saying that gold does not pay dividends. It does, but until now the dividend was only available in one country.

That has now changed and as of this moment, a Canadian physical gold distributor, Canadian Bullion Services (profiled recently by the Globe and Mail) has boldly gone where only India has gone before, and is offering to pay interest to its gold and silver customers if they hold their precious metals at the bullion dealer. In fact, based on the tiering of interest, CBS will pay as much as 4.5%/year if the gold deposited for at least 3 years.

Surprised? Wait until you see the full offer:

Earn Interest on Your Bullion

(BOOST) STORAGE ACCOUNT

Canadian Bullion Services is happy to introduce a new service exclusively to our clients. Purchase gold and silver and hold gold and silver in secure storage; and earn interest just by keeping gold and silver in the Boost storage account.

What is The Boost Storage Account?
The Boost Storage Account is a proprietary program developed exclusively by Canadian Bullion Services. In a nutshell, the program allows investors to:
•Purchase gold and silver;
•Hold gold and silver in secure storage; and
•Earn interest just by keeping gold and silver in the Boost storage account.

Is this a new idea?

We would like to say we thought of it ourselves, but the idea is very popular in the Eastern parts of the world, where governments, banks, and bullion dealers have a variety of storage interest bearing accounts for their hard assets.

Benefits at a glance:
1.Purchase physical gold and silver for safety and growth.
2.Have your gold and silver secure in a vault.
3.Earn interest while your gold and silver is safely in storage.
4.Get full transparency - receive monthly audited statements.

The Program is right for you if:
•You desire the safety of hard assets like bullion but want your bullion working for you;
•You wish to participate in the potential growth of the bullion markets (hard assets only, no paper assets);
•You would like to receive interest payments while storing your gold and silver;
•You believe in a buy-and-hold strategy; and
•You want your bullion stored safely and securely.

How does the Boost Program work?
•Purchase a minimum of 500 ounces of silver or 10 ounces of gold (does not matter which Mint)***
•Store the gold and silver at one of Canadian Bullion Services secure depository vaults.
•The Boost accounts are yearly accounts. Interest earned is based on holding time: ◦Store your bullion for 1 year and earn 2.5%/annum on your bullion*
◦Store your bullion for 2 years and earn 3.5%/annum on your bullion*
◦Store your bullion for 3 years and earn 4.5%/annum on your bullion*

•At the end of the term you can renew your Boost Program or have your bullion delivered**
•Your interest is earned monthly with actual physical bullion.

Getting interest on your gold: that sounds suspiciously close to what fractional reserve banks do to incentivize depositors to fund them with the unsecured liability known as cash; a liability which as Europe is learning the hard way can be bailed in at any given moment. But that is impossible, because as Ben Bernanke will attest, gold is not money, it is tradition. So how can this be?
Well, a quick look at footnote one, and some loud alarm bells should promptly go off:

*Liquidity is at the end of your term only; you may not receive the exact bullion you purchased; the interest will accrue monthly with the purchase of more bullion, any funds remaining will be credited as cash in your account.

At least the company is honest and warns you upfront that the gold you "receive" may not be the exact bullion you purchased, in other words this is nothing but the first incarnation of a bullion dealer rehypothecation scheme.

But why? After all Canadian Bullion Services is a small dealer which allegedly only had a few million in revenue.

Perhaps the answer can be found in the following recent press release, in which CBS announced it was now collaboration with precious metal vaulting legend, Brinks.

Introducing Local Pick Up at Brinks-Revolutionary Service for Gold and Silver

Canadian Bullion Services Inc. has now introduced its leading on-time pick up option at Brinks in Toronto.

“With this new feature, clients can secure their price of gold and silver bullion and now pick up their order at Brinks in Toronto.” said Jamie Cohen, Chief Strategy Officer of Canadian Bullion Services.
This new service was created to help individuals accelerate their precious metals holdings. Clients will no longer need to wait for their deliveries. This helps drive more business value for Canadian Bullion Services by lowering insurance costs and delivery costs while enabling clients to receive their product faster.

In the future, this service will be rolled out to all products and to Brinks in most major cities in Canada. For more information, please contact Jamie Cohen at Canadian Bullion Services.

We wonder if CBS' generous precious metal interest payment scheme is funded by Brinks or one of the other prominent names in the business such as Scotia Mocatta, HSBC or even JPM, all of which as we have documented in recent months, have been running precariously low on physical gold in their gold vaults.

After all what better way to promptly replenish physical stores than to not only not demand gold storage fees but to offer to pay interest to the public for the "privilege" of holding its gold.

In retrospect we can't help but have flashbacks to FDR's infamous executive order 6102, which promptly and overnight confiscated all physical U.S. gold. At least this time around the "confiscation" of gold is on a voluntary, "handover" basis and those who part with their hard money are incentivized to do so with promises of some future paper money interest payment.

At least for now.

And if, like in India, dealers are unable to procure much needed physical, things just might escalate. Unless of course, there is nothing ulterior or sinister about this scheme, in which case those who are interested should call 416 214 4299 for further details.

[Tail Gunner]

(02-23-2016 11:55 PM)DamienCasanova Wrote:  

Wow, this is crazy if true

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-23...and-silver

There are three certain things in life: death, taxes and paying vault storage fees to keep your gold safe. Or at least there were: recently the third of these certainties got somewhat muddied when, over the past year the government of India unleashed an attempt to soft-confiscate the nation's publicly held gold, by offering to pay interest for said gold. Incidentally, the effort has failed miserably as India has been able to collect only a few tons of gold as part of this gold monetization scheme.

Where India succeeded was to finally quash the old saying that gold does not pay dividends. It does, but until now the dividend was only available in one country.

That has now changed and as of this moment, a Canadian physical gold distributor, Canadian Bullion Services (profiled recently by the Globe and Mail) has boldly gone where only India has gone before, and is offering to pay interest to its gold and silver customers if they hold their precious metals at the bullion dealer. In fact, based on the tiering of interest, CBS will pay as much as 4.5%/year if the gold deposited for at least 3 years.

Surprised? Wait until you see the full offer:

Earn Interest on Your Bullion

(BOOST) STORAGE ACCOUNT

Canadian Bullion Services is happy to introduce a new service exclusively to our clients. Purchase gold and silver and hold gold and silver in secure storage; and earn interest just by keeping gold and silver in the Boost storage account.

What is The Boost Storage Account?
The Boost Storage Account is a proprietary program developed exclusively by Canadian Bullion Services. In a nutshell, the program allows investors to:
•Purchase gold and silver;
•Hold gold and silver in secure storage; and
•Earn interest just by keeping gold and silver in the Boost storage account.

Is this a new idea?

We would like to say we thought of it ourselves, but the idea is very popular in the Eastern parts of the world, where governments, banks, and bullion dealers have a variety of storage interest bearing accounts for their hard assets.

Benefits at a glance:
1.Purchase physical gold and silver for safety and growth.
2.Have your gold and silver secure in a vault.
3.Earn interest while your gold and silver is safely in storage.
4.Get full transparency - receive monthly audited statements.

The Program is right for you if:
•You desire the safety of hard assets like bullion but want your bullion working for you;
•You wish to participate in the potential growth of the bullion markets (hard assets only, no paper assets);
•You would like to receive interest payments while storing your gold and silver;
•You believe in a buy-and-hold strategy; and
•You want your bullion stored safely and securely.

How does the Boost Program work?
•Purchase a minimum of 500 ounces of silver or 10 ounces of gold (does not matter which Mint)***
•Store the gold and silver at one of Canadian Bullion Services secure depository vaults.
•The Boost accounts are yearly accounts. Interest earned is based on holding time: ◦Store your bullion for 1 year and earn 2.5%/annum on your bullion*
◦Store your bullion for 2 years and earn 3.5%/annum on your bullion*
◦Store your bullion for 3 years and earn 4.5%/annum on your bullion*

•At the end of the term you can renew your Boost Program or have your bullion delivered**
•Your interest is earned monthly with actual physical bullion.

Getting interest on your gold: that sounds suspiciously close to what fractional reserve banks do to incentivize depositors to fund them with the unsecured liability known as cash; a liability which as Europe is learning the hard way can be bailed in at any given moment. But that is impossible, because as Ben Bernanke will attest, gold is not money, it is tradition. So how can this be?
Well, a quick look at footnote one, and some loud alarm bells should promptly go off:

*Liquidity is at the end of your term only; you may not receive the exact bullion you purchased; the interest will accrue monthly with the purchase of more bullion, any funds remaining will be credited as cash in your account.

At least the company is honest and warns you upfront that the gold you "receive" may not be the exact bullion you purchased, in other words this is nothing but the first incarnation of a bullion dealer rehypothecation scheme.

But why? After all Canadian Bullion Services is a small dealer which allegedly only had a few million in revenue.

Perhaps the answer can be found in the following recent press release, in which CBS announced it was now collaboration with precious metal vaulting legend, Brinks.

Introducing Local Pick Up at Brinks-Revolutionary Service for Gold and Silver

Canadian Bullion Services Inc. has now introduced its leading on-time pick up option at Brinks in Toronto.

“With this new feature, clients can secure their price of gold and silver bullion and now pick up their order at Brinks in Toronto.” said Jamie Cohen, Chief Strategy Officer of Canadian Bullion Services.
This new service was created to help individuals accelerate their precious metals holdings. Clients will no longer need to wait for their deliveries. This helps drive more business value for Canadian Bullion Services by lowering insurance costs and delivery costs while enabling clients to receive their product faster.

In the future, this service will be rolled out to all products and to Brinks in most major cities in Canada. For more information, please contact Jamie Cohen at Canadian Bullion Services.

We wonder if CBS' generous precious metal interest payment scheme is funded by Brinks or one of the other prominent names in the business such as Scotia Mocatta, HSBC or even JPM, all of which as we have documented in recent months, have been running precariously low on physical gold in their gold vaults.

After all what better way to promptly replenish physical stores than to not only not demand gold storage fees but to offer to pay interest to the public for the "privilege" of holding its gold.

In retrospect we can't help but have flashbacks to FDR's infamous executive order 6102, which promptly and overnight confiscated all physical U.S. gold. At least this time around the "confiscation" of gold is on a voluntary, "handover" basis and those who part with their hard money are incentivized to do so with promises of some future paper money interest payment.

At least for now.

And if, like in India, dealers are unable to procure much needed physical, things just might escalate. Unless of course, there is nothing ulterior or sinister about this scheme, in which case those who are interested should call 416 214 4299 for further details.

That is extremely suspicious. It is impossible to pay interest on someone else's stored gold without eventually going broke, unless you use that gold as collateral to profit at an even higher interest rate (thereby making the customers who "own" the gold merely creditors of the storage company).

All legitimate gold storage companies charge storage fees. They do not pay interest. I hope that this story is true. I just do not see how it could work -- at least not while maintaining the ownership integrity of the gold. Perhaps they lock your gold holding into a time period (like a CD) and then use your gold for speculation. It must be some strategy similar to that.

[DamienCasanova]

*Liquidity is at the end of your term only; you may not receive the exact bullion you purchased; the interest will accrue monthly with the purchase of more bullion, any funds remaining will be credited as cash in your account

Hmmm, yeah they probably sell it in between terms and try to make a profit on speculation while trying to keep extending your investments and keeping you from getting out. Sounds like a Ponzi scheme or something

[Disco_Volante]

Tail Gunner - it's a scam man. It's a trick to get you to give up your physical gold to them.

You know how they're talking about banning cash right?

Well they realized people would just use precious metals as money....so how do they gain control of that also?
they try and entice you with bullshit like 'we'll pay you interest on the gold you give us!'.

At best they will speculate with it, and it will be like fractional banking where only a portion of gold deposited is even there at any given time.

At worst (and most likely), this is just a ploy for banks and government to control ALL money. No cash, no precious metals unless in their vaults. Don't fall for their tricks.

This should be obvious to any red pill man now. Literally everything offered by banks and government are set up to fuck you over. It's never a good deal, regardless of what they present you on the surface. These are creeping steps towards enslavement. No cash, no precious metals. They want to destroy major bartering methods. Total control of your life.

[NASA Test Pilot]

This seems like an iteration of a bullion dealer rehypothecation scheme. Take note that Canadian nation gold inventory is only 1.7 MT (metric tons). They are in need. Also recall the Scotia Mocatta problems that I mentioned previously. Tail Gunner hits the nail on the head in that the reputable storage facilities charge storage fees. Tread cautiously.

It is good that you brought this forward as it keeps people on their toes.

[Tail Gunner]

Now here is a program that appears legitimate and makes logical sense: Silver Bullion's bullion-secured peer-to-peer lending and borrowing program.

Because Silver Bullion is located in Singapore, it is likely trustworthy because of the well-established rule of law in Singapore and also Singapore's status as an international financial center.

The process for bullion-backed peer-to-peer loans is explained in the embedded video:

https://www.silverbullion.com.sg/AboutLoans.aspx

[Baphomet]

(02-24-2016 03:26 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

Now here is a program that appears legitimate and makes logical sense: Silver Bullion's bullion-secured peer-to-peer lending and borrowing program.

I'm sure it's fine and all, but... I guess I'm just a the paranoid type. I only own physical gold/sliver. That I keep close to me.

[Santiago]

Franklin sanders at the moneychanger has a pretty solid guide on the safest, most legit' way of holding physical bullion. His daily market commentary is a good read also. Of course, it is slanted at you buying from him but should give you a decent overview of the various mechanisms affecting the prices.

http://the-moneychanger.com/answers/ten_...and_silver

[Tail Gunner]

(02-24-2016 03:42 PM)Baphomet Wrote:  

(02-24-2016 03:26 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

Now here is a program that appears legitimate and makes logical sense: Silver Bullion's bullion-secured peer-to-peer lending and borrowing program.

I'm sure it's fine and all, but... I guess I'm just a the paranoid type. I only own physical gold/sliver. That I keep close to me.

If you are even more paranoid, there are non-bank vaulting companies located in Switzerland and elsewhere that are far more secure than holding large amounts of precious metals yourself. Moreover, providing that you own allocated metal, your PM holdings are not reported to the USG.

[Easy_C]

If you did you'd be an idiot to post about it on the internet.

Personally I think it's a poor investment. Not only is Gold NOT going to slingshot up to 20,000 an oz anytime soon (contrary to the propaganda gold dealers push), but it's not easily tradeable. Your average idiot has no idea what it's worth, and they've done "man on the street" experiments where people will choose a chocolate bar over a silver coin. Your better off hoarding either physical cash or supplies like food. Bullets are also a great barter currency.

Speaking of Silver, I do own a few (under a dozen) for collection purposes. I've run into a number of cool coins at various flea markets, swap meets, things of that nature and pick them up if I think they're interesting. My favorite is a square canadian silver dollar.

[Baphomet]

(02-24-2016 06:17 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(02-24-2016 03:42 PM)Baphomet Wrote:  

(02-24-2016 03:26 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

Now here is a program that appears legitimate and makes logical sense: Silver Bullion's bullion-secured peer-to-peer lending and borrowing program.

I'm sure it's fine and all, but... I guess I'm just a the paranoid type. I only own physical gold/sliver. That I keep close to me.

If you are even more paranoid, there are non-bank vaulting companies located in Switzerland and elsewhere that are far more secure than holding large amounts of precious metals yourself. Moreover, providing that you own allocated metal, your PM holdings are not reported to the USG.

Right. We'll have to disagree on this point. I prefer keeping my metals much closer to home.

[NASA Test Pilot]

This was in reply to a question on the Geo-political thread. You can start here or back up a few posts.

thread-53234...pid1273342


Tungesten (also known as Wolfram) can be used to fool some (smart) people. This was done with a number of 1 kilo Swiss gold bars, but more so with 400oz (American) gold bars in the 2010-2012 timeframe. The Germans and especially the Chinese were pissed and that is why they have been melting the down old European gold at Swiss refineries and having them recast in Kilo bars with Chinese stamps. I have not seen this personally, but I have second hand knowledge based on long time trusted members in this field who have seen and touched these 1 kilo and 400oz Tungsten plated bars. This is one reason why I have recommend in other places that if you want own gold, you want have coins up to the $50-80 million level.

There are ultrasonic tests that you want to do with large bars or you may have them assayed. Neodymium magnets can be used, but there are limitations (based on purity, hence 22 carat or 91.67% will have more errors than 24 carat or 99.99(9)% fine. There are two other important issues with the technique. Firstly, oxygen is paramagnetic. Oxygen has a much greater molar magnetic susceptibility than tungsten. When the gold bar is placed above the balance, air containing paramagnetic oxygen is displaced. This effect must be considered. Second, the magnetic susceptibility of the plastic envelope must be considered.

Also, the gradient of the magnetic field (how the field's intensity varies with space) determines the force, rather than the strength of the magnetic field. Often, the sample is suspended from a microgram balance, the sample being between the poles of a large electromagnet.

Checking for ultrasound echoes coming from the interior of the bar at a gold/tungsten interface and measuring the speed of sound in the bar are techniques in use to rule out gold plated tungsten bars. You should be able to find a portable ultrasound detector for $400-500 U.S. that is adequate for most needs.

Coins can be faked as well and that is why it is important to understand various tests from chemical, to how they feel, the sound they make when they strike a surface or another coin, the weight in your hand (as gold is much more dense) based on the standard thickness and circumference. As I have PM´ed to a number of guys, knowing your buyer and having a relationship with them over time is paramount!!! It is something that is developed and takes effort.

The notion of gold possessing value in and of itself is good question and I would like to give a hard and fast objective answer, but I cannot, I like Richard´s (he was a personal friend and a real old school guy) example. The confusion rests on a mixing up of two very different propositions: 1) gold and silver are historically valuable; and 2) gold and silver have intrinsic value. Also a strong point can be made that gold does not have intrinsic value because it is relying on the madness of crowds.

What I will say is that gold has a unique and beautiful color, unlike other elements, it is brilliant as the atoms in gold are heavier, and the electrons move faster, creating absorption of some light. Gold also has social prestige. Hold a gold coin in your hand and tell me how you feel?

From another perspective I would say that gold has an intrinsic cost (what it takes to dig it up and then refine it into a coin), but we are splitting hairs here. If gold has that value to someone, and it is not being over-produced, you could say that it has that intrinsic value. Where it gets interesting is that gold is very good for hoarding as a store of value. It may also be of interest to note that the intrinsic cost today is above the spot price for some (not all) mines and that is why mines are closing down and they take many years to open up which will affect future supply (this is another post).

With this in mind and connecting it back to the geo-political framework, there is a concerted effort to transfer the 15,000-20,000 tons of non-monetized gold in the hands of the citizenry of India to the government of India in exchange for rupee bonds bearing interest and thereby attempt to bring this 4,000+ year hoard of gold into the market. In the end, I predict that the attempt will fail.

Returning to intrinsic value, humans are group beings, and prefer company (on varying levels) over complete independence. It is easier to work in groups than attempt to live off the land on our own. This human traits forces us back to a barter system and finding ways of working together, which leads back to finding a way to exchange good and services easily and efficiently. Even if a gold has no intrinsic value to the person holding it (he or she can't eat it or drink it), if an agreement is made that turns metal into coins which can be used for easy exchange of goods, that coin takes on a value. Because others believe it has value, you do to, and because they think you value it, they value it too.

Gold is illiquid in the modern world if you want to go into a store and buy some food as they will not accept your 1/10 ounce gold coin or silver coins at other than face value (a 1964 silver quarter is worth $4 dollars, plus or minus, in silver, not 25 cents. When you look at some of the western gold coins they put a $50 (U.S. and Canadian are two examples) face value on the coin in order to discourage people psychologically. Try to take the 10 one ounce coins through U.S. customs and not declare it on the FinCen (105) form and they are likely to get confiscated and you may get fined and/or imprisoned. If you say it is worth $500 dollars, they will tell you no it is worth $12,000+ or whatever they see as the spot price. Stop by customs the next time you are in the airport and have a chat with them.

[DamienCasanova]

China Launches Yuan Gold Fix To "Exert More Control Over Price Of Gold"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-19...price-gold

Overnight a historic event took place when China, the world's top gold consumer, launched a yuan-denominated gold benchmark as had been previewed here previously, in what Reuters dubbed "an ambitious step to exert more control over the pricing of the metal and boost its influence in the global bullion market." Considering the now officially-confirmed rigging of the gold and silver fix courtesy of last week's Deutsche Bank settlement, this is hardly bad news and may finally lead to some rigging cartel and central bank-free price discovery. Or it may not, because China would enjoy nothing more than continuing to accumulate gold at lower prices.

The first Chinese benchmark price, derived from a 1 kg-contract traded by 18 participants on the Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE), was set at 256.92 yuan ($39.69) per gram on Tuesday, equivalent to $1,234.50/ounce.

China's gold benchmark is the culmination of efforts by China over the last few years to reform its domestic gold market in a bid to have a bigger say in the bullion industry, long dominated by London where the global spot benchmark price is currently set. As is well known, as the world's top producer, importer and consumer of gold, China has balked at having to depend on a dollar price in international transactions, and believes its market weight should entitle it to set the price of gold.

The new benchmark may not be an immediate threat to London, but industry players say over time China could set the price of the metal, especially if the yuan become fully convertible.

Cited by Reuters, Pan Gongsheng, deputy governor of the People's Bank of China which has been disclosing gold purchases every month since last summer, said that "the Shanghai gold benchmark will provide a fair and tradable yuan-denominated gold fix price ... will help improve yuan pricing mechanism and promote internationalization of the Chinese gold market."

The mechanics of the Shanghai fix are comparable to those of London: the benchmark price will be set twice a day based on a few minutes of trading in each session. The London benchmark, quoted in dollars per ounce, is set via a twice-daily auction on an electronic platform with 12 participants.

The 18 trading members in the yuan price-setting process includes China's big four state-owned banks, foreign banks Standard Chartered and ANZ, the world's top jewelry retailer Chow Tai Fook and two of China's top gold miners.

When discussing the Chinese gold fix previously, World Gold Council CEO Aram Shishmanian said that "it is a stepping stone to a new multi-axis trading market consisting of London, New York and Shanghai and signals the continuing shift in demand from West to East."

"As the market expands to reflect the growing interest in gold by Chinese consumers, so too will China's influence increase on the global gold market."

It may already be working: according to Reuters, one reason for today's spike in silver is due to "heavy buying of silver in Shanghai, and that has triggered buying in gold as well," said Ronald Leung, chief dealer at Lee Cheong Gold Dealers in Hong Kong.

Finally, when Chinese capital capital flight into Canadian real estate and offshore tax havens is curbed, we expected that gold could well follow the path of bitcoin, which has doubled since our article presenting it as an attractive alternative to avoiding Chinese capital controls.

Chinese Start Buying Silver (Silver up to $17/oz)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-19...hest-years

While most traders' attention has been glued to the daily gyrations in oil, it is another commodity that has gained 21% this year and is the best performing asset in the Bloomberg Commodity Index. Silver.

As we reported earlier, the buying accelerated this morning, when ongoing demand for the precious metal pushed it to fresh 10 month highs above $17/ounce. One reason suggested for the buying came from Reuters, which said "that there is heavy buying in silver in Shanghai, and that has triggered buying in gold as well," said Ronald Leung, chief dealer at Lee Cheong Gold Dealers in Hong Kong.

This may just be the beginning as technicians are finally starting to pay attention.

Here is the just released report from BofA technical strategist Paul Ciana, who highlights the key chart observations:

Silver breaks through neckline of head and shoulders bottom

The price breakout up through the Ichimoku cloud and horizontal neckline at $16.10 points silver back to a historically important area of about $18.59. The Ichimoku cloud is also nearing a bullish cross while MACD just turned more bullish by crossing above zero. Momentum as defined by RSI broke out to its highest level in years suggesting momentum supports this trend.

He does have a warning, however, for those who wish to jump on today's rally:

Today’s large silver rally led to a TD Setup sell signal. Of the past 16 signals where RSI was overbought, 11 times or 69% of the time silver prices declined the next day. Of all the 55 sell signals since 2000, price declined 35 times or 64% of the time one day later. Tomorrow, price may retrace some of the recent move providing a better opportunity to go long silver. Looking forward four and five days after the TD Setup sell signal with RSI overbought, price tends to continue higher.

Odd how being overbought is never a factor for stocks dropping shortly thereafter.

So is a continuation of the breakout imminent or will silver suffer its traditional intraday slamdown as "someone" dumps enough paper silver (and/or gold) to take out the entire bidstack and reprice the commodity lower? It all depends on what the patriotic Chinese, now in possession of a brand new gold fixing mechanism, do next.

TL;DR Watch out investors, China is making a play to compete with London for setting the Gold price, and could be heading back to a gold standard for their currency. And they are trying to corner the market on silver again...

[thoughtgypsy]

(02-25-2016 11:38 AM)Baphomet Wrote:  

(02-24-2016 06:17 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

If you are even more paranoid, there are non-bank vaulting companies located in Switzerland and elsewhere that are far more secure than holding large amounts of precious metals yourself. Moreover, providing that you own allocated metal, your PM holdings are not reported to the USG.

Right. We'll have to disagree on this point. I prefer keeping my metals much closer to home.

What do you guys plan on doing when this happens again?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102



Private gold was stolen in 1933 at less than 60% of it's value, and given to the Federal Reserve. Private ownership of gold was made illegal until 1974, when it was allowed again (giving the opportunity for private citizens to accumulate gold for the federal reserve to possibly steal once again at a future date).

Simon Black suggests storing it in gold vaults in Singapore. I would imagine FATCA, and eventually GATCA will make keeping your property safe from theft much more difficult.

[DamienCasanova]

Well, it depends on the price they set for gold when they confiscate it. I read an article a couple weeks ago hypothesizing the govt could repurchase gold at 2000 or 2500/oz (or more) and get gold for a more realistic price, while making the people they confiscate from better taken care of and less angry about it since they are at least profiting from it. I wish I could find it now, I think it was on zerohedge also. We all know the market price for gold is very low compared to real world value, because the physical gold market is basically dragged down and manipulated by the paper gold market. Did the paper gold and speculation market exist in 1933? I should do more research into when Gold started being traded on paper. I would think that alone would be a major factor in how the gold market price is set, and has probably been driving down the real world price of gold for some time.

If the govt offered a price for gold that was substantially more than fair market value they wouldn't have many problems I don't think. But if they are only offering spot price, or worse, they could have an armed push back by a lot of goldbugs I believe. With that said, I don't see the scenario happening any time soon, I think it would take a massive administration change (Trump) to get the govt interested in a gold standard again, and there would have to be massive changes in the Fed and the economy's reliance on credit and debt instead of hard assets.

[rudebwoy]

^Paper gold market did not exist in 1933.

I believe you are referring to the gold confiscation act, the government forced people to hand in their gold. Then they raised the price once they had collected a sufficient amount.

Gold will only go up in price in due time, we may see some strong movements this year.

[DamienCasanova]

If the 70s play out again, it implies a 6-fold gain for gold and 9-fold surge for Silver.

This implies the real price of gold could easily be $10,000/oz if it wasn't for so many years of market manipulation and suppression with paper. Bank of Germany was recently outed for their rigging of the gold market, as well as implying many other banks were doing the same thing.

Deutsche Bank Admits It Rigged Gold Prices, Agrees To Expose Other Manipulators
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-14...l-settleme

Since this is just one of many lawsuits filed over the past two years in Manhattan federal court in which investors accused banks of conspiring to rig rates or prices in financial and commodities markets, we expect that now that DB has "turned" that much more curious information about precious metals rigging will emerge, and will confirm what the "bugs" had said all along: that the precious metals market has been rigged all along.


A Scramble For Gold Has Begun
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-22...-has-begun
For a century, elites have worked to eliminate monetary gold, both physically and ideologically.

This began in 1914, with the UK’s entry into the First World War. The Bank of England wanted to suspend convertibility of bank notes into gold. Keynes counselled wisely that the bank should not do so. Gold was finite, but credit elastic.

By staying on gold, the UK could maintain its credit, and finance the war effort. This transpired. The House of Morgan organised massive credits for the UK, and none for Germany. This finance was crucial, and sustained the UK until the US abandoned neutrality and tipped the military balance against Germany.

Despite formal convertibility of sterling to gold, the Bank of England successfully discouraged actual conversion.

Gold sovereigns were withdrawn from circulation and turned into 400-ounce bars. This form of bullion limited gold ownership to the wealthy, and confined gold’s presence to vaults. A similar disappearance of gold as a circulating currency occurred in the US.

The price of gold has jumped in recent years Credit: London Metal Exchange


In 1933, US President Franklin Roosevelt issued an executive order making ownership of gold a crime. FDR relied on the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917 as statutory authority for this edict. Since the US was not at war in 1933, the enemy was presumably the American people.

In 1971, US President Richard Nixon ended convertibility of US dollars into gold by trading partners of the US. Closing the gold window was said by Nixon to be temporary. Forty-five years later the window is still closed.

In 1973, the G7 nations, and the IMF demonetised gold. IMF members were no longer required to hold gold reserves. Gold was now just another commodity. The view of the monetary elites was that gold was dead.

Yet, like Banquo’s ghost, gold insists on its seat at the monetary table. The US holds 8,133 tonnes of gold. The members of the eurozone and ECB hold 10,788 tonnes. China reports holdings of 1,788 tonnes, but actual holdings are closer to 4,000 tonnes, based on reliable data from Hong Kong exports and Chinese mining.

Russia has 1,447 tonnes, and has been acquiring over 200 tonnes per year. Mexico, Kazakhstan, and Vietnam, among other nations, have added to their gold reserves recently. (Pity the UK, which sold more than half its gold at rock- bottom prices between 1999 and 2002).

After decades as net sellers of gold, central banks became net buyers in 2010. A scramble for gold has begun.

What drives gold’s new allure? In some cases, central banks are constructing a hedge against US dollar inflation.

China has $3.2 trillion in reserves, over half of which is denominated in US dollars, mostly US Treasury notes. The dollar has no greater friend than China because its wealth is held in dollars. Still, inflation looms. China cannot dump its Treasury notes; the Treasury market is deep, but not that deep.

If Chinese selling of Treasuries became a threat to US interests, a US president could freeze Chinese accounts with a phone call.

The Chinese know this. They are stuck with their dollars. They fear, rightly, that the US will inflate its way out of its $19 trillion mountain of debt.

China’s solution is to buy gold. If dollar inflation emerges, China’s Treasury holdings will devalue, but the dollar price of its gold will soar. A large gold reserve is a prudent diversification. Russia’s motives are geopolitical. Gold is the model 21st century weapon for financial wars.

The US controls dollar payments systems and, with help from European allies, can eject adversaries from the international payments system called Swift. Gold is immune to such assaults. Physical gold in your custody cannot be hacked, erased, or frozen. Moving gold is a simple way for Russia to settle accounts without US interference.

Countries are also acquiring gold in advance of a collapse of the international monetary system. The system has collapsed three times in the past century. Each time, major financial powers came together to write new rules.

This happened at Genoa in 1922, Bretton Woods in 1944, and the Smithsonian Institution in 1971. The international monetary system has a shelf life of about 30 years.

It has been 30 years since the Louvre Accord (an upgrade to the Smithsonian Agreement). This does not mean the system will collapse tomorrow, but no one should be surprised if it does. When the financial powers next convene to reform the system, there will be no appetite for the dollar’s exorbitant privilege.

The Chinese yuan and Russia ruble are not true reserve currencies. The only feasible benchmarks for a new system are the IMF’s world money, called special drawing rights, and gold.

Critics claim there is not enough gold to support the financial system. That’s nonsense. There is always enough gold, it’s just a matter of price.

Based on the M1 money supplies of China, the eurozone, and the US, and with 40pc gold backing, the implied non-deflationary price of gold is $10,000 per ounce.

At that price, a stable gold-backed monetary system could be sustained. When it comes to monetary elites, watch what they do, not what they say.

While elites disparage gold at every opportunity, they are buying it, hoarding it, and preparing for the day when one’s gold determines one’s seat at the table of systemic reform.

It’s past time to claim your seat with an asset allocation to physical gold.


Another long article
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-16...dollar-era

"We must conclude that the State Council views gold as part of the coming international monetary system. Why else does it quickly develop the domestic gold market to be embedded in financial markets, surreptitiously accumulate vast gold reserves and establish a framework to boost gold business on the Eurasian continent around the SGEI? In my view, China contributes significant value to its gold strategy in the shadow of the apparent failure of the current fiat monetary system. And if true, China’s central bank having nearly 4,000 tonnes of gold is well on its way to introduce the next phase."

TL;DR seems to be a worldwide monetary system restructuring starting up
For 10,000/oz the govt can buy all my gold right now! Even paying 5000/oz and then repricing after the confiscation to 10,000/oz would be very profitable for most investors and the govt as well.

[DamienCasanova]

More interesting details on how the gold/silver markets have been rigged for a long time, and prices have been suppressed and shorted for many years.

https://www.sprottmoney.com/blog/the-deu...gless.html

April 28, 2016

There has been considerable hoopla and celebration, following Deutsche Bank’s legal settlement , in a U.S.-based litigation against this Big Bank regarding precious metals manipulation. The enthusiasm surrounds Deutsche Bank’s pledge to “cooperate” in providing evidence to be used against the other defendants in that litigation: HSBC and the Bank of Nova Scotia (and possibly UBS, as well).

It is painful to be a naysayer here. The extreme, perennial, manipulation and suppression of precious metals prices is one of the more odious blotches on what we call “markets”. However, there is unfortunately no basis for renewed optimism that this current litigation will have any meaningful impact on precious metals manipulation – with respect to either silver or gold.

There are several reasons for not considering this to be the turning point in precious metals markets which several commentators have suggested. The most important reason here is the subject matter of the manipulation itself. The lawsuit which reaped this settlement is based exclusively on manipulation of the silver fix (and gold fix).

As has been explained previously , manipulation of the silver and gold “fix” is only the tip of the iceberg regarding the manipulation of precious metals markets. Of far greater significance are the following categories of fraud and manipulation:

Naked shorting
Bullion “leasing”
Algorithm manipulation

Naked shorting is an endemic form of fraud in our pseudo-markets, due to lack of regulation and enforcement of this crime. We can only assume that this is particularly egregious in precious metals trading, as the short positions in these metals is grossly disproportionate to shorting activity anywhere else in the spectrum of commodities.

So-called bullion leasing is a form of fraud and manipulation which has been discussed by many other commentators, as well as in previous commentaries . “Gold generates no income.” This tautology is true with respect to any commodity.

The only way to produce revenues from any commodity is to use it (i.e. consume it), or sell it. In either case, it requires surrendering possession. Consequently, there can be no legitimate business purpose in “leasing” any commodity, only nefarious ones. In the case of (central bank) bullion leasing, the fraudulent modus operandi is well known.

…central banks stand ready to lease gold in increasing quantities should the price rise.

- Testimony of [Federal Reserve] Chairman Alan Greenspan , July 24th, 1998

So what? Central banks “stand ready” to temporarily transfer possession of their gold to some third party. In what way does that counteract a rising gold price, the clear intent of Chairman Greenspan’s testimony? There is no legitimate way in which such a transaction could impact bullion markets.

The illegitimate way is well known. Western central banks “lease” their gold to “traders” (i.e. the Big Banks). The bankers then short the gold onto the market (manipulating the price lower), thus requiring them to transfer permanent ownership of that gold, should the party on the other end of the transaction take delivery of the metal being traded.

The gold is gone, forever, but it remains on the books of the central banks: the phantom “gold reserves” of which Western governments continue to boast. Countless, thousands of tonnes of gold have been leased onto the market during this era of manipulation. We don’t know the precise level of fraud with respect to central bank bullion “leasing”, because (of course) these institutes of financial crime permit no full, public audits of their books, ever.

Algorithm manipulation is undoubtedly now the most important category of precious metals manipulation, just as it is with respect to price manipulation throughout our markets. This has been well established in previous commentaries .

So-called “HFT trading” (i.e. computerized algorithm trading) now dominates all trade activity, in all markets. The evidence of manipulation, particularly in U.S. markets, has now been clearly revealed and defined through research into this form of market crime. That research showed that:

a) 75% of all U.S. equities were subjected to significant levels of algorithm price manipulation.

b) This manipulation is not only endemic, it is systemic. This algorithm manipulation was strongly “correlated”, meaning it was being controlled by a single Invisible Hand – the Big Bank crime syndicate which regular readers know as the One Bank .

Throughout the last, five years of relentless price suppression, we have seen clear technical “break-outs” in the price of gold and silver, only to see prices quickly reverse.




It is true that even legitimate markets occasionally send false (technical) signals. However, both gold and silver have been priced at only small fractions of any minimum, rational price which we could possibly assign. When strong, bullish technical indicators are accompanied by strongly bullish fundamentals, legitimate markets never reverse in such a manner.

This is why the mainstream media (a tentacle of the One Bank) invests so much time and effort with their own, gibberish analysis of gold and silver, creating their own, bogus “fundamentals” which they then hype as an “explanation” of the absurdly fraudulent prices of silver and gold.

Note additionally the pattern of silver trading over the past 5 years. Silver is both a much smaller market than the gold market, with much more volatile demand. For both of those reasons, the price of silver must be more volatile than the price of gold, yet over the past five years we see precisely the opposite pattern.

We see a pseudo-market which is being ruthlessly suppressed. Further indication of this comes by looking at the technical break-outs in the price of silver versus break-outs in the gold pseudo-market. Silver break-outs are instantly attacked, and the price is hammered lower, while gold break-outs occasionally are allowed to gather a little momentum, before then being illegally reversed. Indeed, it is precisely this previously demonstrated omnipotence which prompted the warning that the current “rally” in gold and silver is a fake-rally.

The fact that silver is held in a much tighter choke-hold reflects the differences in the fundamentals of these metals. Physical inventories and stockpiles of silver are undoubtedly much smaller than those of gold, in relative terms. The price of silver has been suppressed to a much more extreme degree. This means that the upward price-pressure on silver is much greater than with gold, and the capacity of the “market” to withstand any stampede of bullish demand is much more limited.

The Big Bank crime syndicate is much more afraid of silver than gold, and we see this clearly reflected in the pattern of price manipulation. The price of silver is never allowed to gain momentum, for fear that once “lift off” was achieved with silver that there would be no way to reverse either a price spiral, nor prevent some final, catastrophic implosion of inventories.

This brings us to the silver fix, and the Deutsche Bank settlement. The silver fix and gold fix were never anything more than minor tools of manipulation. At two moments each day; the banking crime syndicate “fixes” gold and silver prices. This is useful for defrauding contracts based upon the prevailing “fix” in gold or silver, but it has no significant impact on overall price manipulation.

Exposing such manipulation will do nothing toward preventing the continued, systemic manipulation of gold and silver prices, via the much more potent weapons of naked shorting, bullion leasing, and algorithm manipulation. Deutsche Bank was never accused of crimes of this nature in this lawsuit, thus its “cooperation” does not extend to providing information about such manipulation. However, by settling its own suit, acknowledging its liability, and “confessing” the manipulation of the gold-fix and silver-fix by other Tentacles, the One Bank can pretend that “manipulation” has now been eradicated from these markets.

This brings us to the final reason why the Deutsche Bank legal settlement is (unfortunately) much ado about nothing. It is the settlement of a lawsuit, not a conviction for the crime of illegally manipulating the gold and silver pseudo-markets. Deutsche Bank acknowledged civil liability for its actions, not criminal guilt.

These fix-manipulation lawsuits were launched in both the United States and Canada. Do we see the pseudo-regulators or pseudo-justice officials in either Canada or the U.S. announcing (criminal) investigations of the obvious crime for which Deutsche Bank has acknowledged its culpability? No.

Any real “investigation” might stumble upon the more potent forms of price manipulation discussed previously, and have some real, lasting impact on the serial manipulation of the prices of these metals. Civil lawsuits, no matter what their outcome, have no lasting impact on such systemic criminal activity. All that the victims of manipulation can do is launch additional suits in the future, since “justice” is a commodity which no longer exists in markets – the playground of the Big Bank crime syndicate.

As regular readers are already aware, the One Bank is now able to counterfeit its bogus “Monopoly money” in literally infinite amounts. No matter how much of its worthless confetti it is forced to shower upon litigants (now or in the future), such lawsuits could never have any deterrent effect on these financial crimes.

Even more appalling, when the Big Banks are actually caught-and-convicted perpetrating one of their serial Mega Crimes , such convictions never provide any actual law enforcement. A token “fine” is paid, and then the Big Banks go right back to committing the same crimes . Indeed, the U.S. Department of (pseudo) Justice has now formally proclaimed that it will never punish these corporations for their corporate crimes.

In the face of such systemic, unobstructed criminality, the token “victory” in an aspect of precious metals price-manipulation which has little overall relevance is trivial. Real victories will only come with real justice. The latter no longer exists in our corrupt nations, thus we should not be holding our breath for the former.