[Kingsley Davis]

What would cause a man to remove his child from it's mother and then placed it in his mother' care to then flee the country.

[Onto]

When you say his Mother's care are you referring to the Man's Mother (GrandMother)?

If so, I would guess the child's Mother was unfit and perhaps a danger to the child and himself. A danger through legal means or otherwise.

[Kickb]

Failing ponzi scheme?

[LeBeau]

You should probably expand on your point and write out some context if you want serious replies.

[samsamsam]

I am assuming there has been some time between when the child was removed from its mother before being returned back to its mother?

[Roosh]

Looks like a junk thread.

[Kingsley Davis]

@ Onto- Correct his grandmother.

@Samsamsam- He was never returned to his mother, spent his formative years with his grandmother who've since passed, never heard from his father and the family won't give him answers.

@ Roosh-The man is a very close personal friend of mine who confessed this to me over the weekend. I was honestly seeking some opinions out of admiration for what you've created.

[Suits]

(08-04-2014 07:13 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  

@ Onto- Correct his grandmother.

@Samsamsam- He was never returned to his mother, spent his formative years with his grandmother who've since passed, never heard from his father and the family won't give him answers.

@ Roosh-The man is a very close personal friend of mine who confessed this to me over the weekend. I was honestly seeking some opinions out of admiration for what you've created.

We are going to need more details if we are to give any worthwhile feedback.

That being said, without having personal contact with the situation, I doubt any of us will be able to contribute much besides wild guesses.

[Onto]

Mother was probably unfit. She didn't keep tabs on her kid, otherwise she would've known he was with his GrandMother and would've gotten him back. Even if the Father abducted the kid and went into hiding, it would be unlikely the GrandMother was in hiding also later on.

Maybe the Father fleeing the country is unrelated to the Mother? Don't really know. It sounds like your friend hasn't had contact with his Mother either? Or her family? Maybe they would have information, albeit from their point of view.

I wonder how much time your friend spent with his Father alone before he had to flee the country?

[el mechanico]

Explain this better

[monster]

Who knows?

One thing I've found is that there's no such thing as "normal" people - well, there are, but they're boring as all hell. Most people are crazy even if they don't think they're crazy. And crazy people do crazy things.

Your friend will never find out the answers unless he was able to track down his father, or find some hidden letter written by his grandmother.

[Kingsley Davis]

@ Suits-What i posted is what he told me. The man never met his mother or father and was told why should he care because he's basically insulting his grandmother by inquiring about the past.

@ Onto- I concur that the mother was probably unfit or too young but the sad part is he'll never know.

Thanks.

[RoadKill503]

Any idea which country the father went to?

[Kingsley Davis]

(08-04-2014 07:53 PM)RoadKill503 Wrote:  

Any idea which country the father went to?

Sorry no.

[The Lizard of Oz]

KD,

The most obvious scenario is a mother who was an alcoholic, a junkie, or remarried to a bad sort, and a father who was either a criminal or in a great deal of debt. But it's all speculation, obviously.

The more important point, and the best favor you could do your friend, is to tell him that none of this matters. The past is past; he is an adult man now and he has his life to live. There is no good that comes from trying to dig up one's past; it holds no meanings or revelations, it has nothing to say about one's fate or character. To become obsessed with the reconstruction of one's peculiar origins makes for some decent Hollywood movies, but in real life it is a waste of time, and a misdirection of one's thoughts and feelings.

Whatever meaning one's life has will be found by living it, not by digging up the story of one's origins. Your friend should dismiss his idle curiosity, and forget about the whole thing. His important relationship is to the woman who raised him, his grandmother -- that is the one that matters. Let the ghosts rest in their graves and let the dead bury their dead.

[Kingsley Davis]

(08-04-2014 08:06 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

KD,

The most obvious scenario is a mother who was an alcoholic, a junkie, or remarried to a bad sort, and a father who was either a criminal or in a great deal of debt. But it's all speculation, obviously.

The more important point, and the best favor you could do your friend, is to tell him that none of this matters. The past is past; he is an adult man now and he has his life to live. There is no good that comes from trying to dig up one's past; it holds no meanings or revelations, it has nothing to say about one's fate or character. To become obsessed with the reconstruction of one's peculiar origins makes for some decent Hollywood movies, but in real life it is a waste of time, and a misdirection of one's thoughts and feelings.

Whatever meaning one's life has will be found by living it, not by digging up the story of one's origins. Your friend should dismiss his idle curiosity, and forget about the whole thing. His important relationship is to the woman who raised him, his grandmother -- that is the one that matters. Let the ghosts rest in their graves and let the dead bury their dead.

I'm honored that your post is similar to what he and i discussed but as the old saying goes " you can lead the horse to water but you can't make it drink".

[Dr. Howard]

(08-04-2014 08:06 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

KD,

The most obvious scenario is a mother who was an alcoholic, a junkie, or remarried to a bad sort, and a father who was either a criminal or in a great deal of debt. But it's all speculation, obviously.

The more important point, and the best favor you could do your friend, is to tell him that none of this matters. The past is past; he is an adult man now and he has his life to live. There is no good that comes from trying to dig up one's past; it holds no meanings or revelations, it has nothing to say about one's fate or character. To become obsessed with the reconstruction of one's peculiar origins makes for some decent Hollywood movies, but in real life it is a waste of time, and a misdirection of one's thoughts and feelings.

Whatever meaning one's life has will be found by living it, not by digging up the story of one's origins. Your friend should dismiss his idle curiosity, and forget about the whole thing. His important relationship is to the woman who raised him, his grandmother -- that is the one that matters. Let the ghosts rest in their graves and let the dead bury their dead.

agreed, it doesn't matter. If he found out that his mother was a porn star would he suddenly leap up and change careers and grow a beard? Or if his mom was hillary clinton would he suddenly change political affiliations. The unknowns of his past will not miraculously change his life when they are known now.

[samsamsam]

While it might not matter, and we have all seen those movies where the kid calls the man who raised him his dad even after meeting his biological dad and they hug and cry, but I don't think it is odd to be curious about one's origin or backstory. If he is curious, he is curious, I think it is at a level that is different than let's say trying to get over a girl. If he can't not care about it, he probably won't ever be able to let it go. It will stay with him.

[The Lizard of Oz]

samsamsam, it's definitely not odd to be curious, but it is based on a confusion -- the idea that the past holds some special answers or meaning, that what it can reveal has the character of special depth or significance to one's life. It's a very natural and understandable confusion, so there is nothing odd about it. But it's still a confusion and it should be dismissed, because pursuing it is a waste of time and more importantly a misdirected use of one's thoughts and feelings. And it is certainly possible to dismiss it once you realize that it is of no importance.

As far as the comparison with getting over a girl, I would say that this sort of thing is on a different level only in that it's on a lesser level. The girl is an actual creature of flesh and blood that you knew and kissed and fucked and smelled, etc -- that gets deeply under your skin and into your brain and heart and it's not something that can be just turned off or forgotten. But these ancestors that one has never seen or had a relation to are not an organic part of one's life; rather, one is under the sway of an abstract idea about the prestige or importance of the past, and this idea is misguided and even dangerous and can and should be dismissed.

[samsamsam]

(08-04-2014 11:10 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

samsamsam, it's definitely not odd to be curious, but it is based on a confusion -- the idea that the past holds some special answers or meaning, that what it can reveal has the character of special depth or significance to one's life. It's a very natural and understandable confusion, so there is nothing odd about it. But it's still a confusion and it should be dismissed, because pursuing it is a waste of time and more importantly a misdirected use of one's thoughts and feelings. And it is certainly possible to dismiss it once you realize that it is of no importance.

As far as the comparison with getting over a girl, I would say that this sort of thing is on a different level only in that it's on a lesser level. The girl is an actual creature of flesh and blood that you knew and kissed and fucked and smelled, etc -- that gets deeply under your skin and into your brain and heart and it's not something that can be just turned off or forgotten. But these ancestors that one has never seen or had a relation to are not an organic part of one's life; rather, one is under the sway of an abstract idea about the prestige or importance of the past, and this idea is misguided and even dangerous and can and should be dismissed.

I can see where you're coming from and appreciate the post. But I can see certain types just wondering. He might be one of those, It is that lead a horse to water thing. It is also a matter of moving forward in life and if this somehow serves that purpose (I agree it doesn't). But he may just be hung up that people in the family won't share the back story like it is some terrible family secret, just tell him and get on with it.

Makes me think of "The Shawshank Redemption." - Andy and Red are discussing things and that great line "Get busy living or get busy dying" comes to mind.

Somehow this guy will need to find his closure - he will have to pick his path spend time chasing down information or making his peace with it and moving on. He will have to decide what is best for him. None of us can choose the right path for him, we are not him.

KD, does he want to find his parents and have a relationship with them? Or just wants to know more and some how that insulted his grandmother's efforts?

[Simeon_Strangelight]

So actually the question is how to find his dad, since he (the child in the initial question) is already grown and in his 40s or 30s?

If he wishes to find his father and has not been able to do so with any conventional means, I would propose Out of Body Travel or Remote Viewing . He can learn to do those techniques himself, which takes some time or he can hire someone. Very few people around who are that proficient at it and offer their services. If it is good enough for the CIA it should be good enough for him.

On the other hand - it is best to accept what cannot be changed. Whether decisions of your parents were good or bad - what does it matter? They did as good as they could in that time.

[Kingsley Davis]

(08-04-2014 11:33 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(08-04-2014 11:10 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

samsamsam, it's definitely not odd to be curious, but it is based on a confusion -- the idea that the past holds some special answers or meaning, that what it can reveal has the character of special depth or significance to one's life. It's a very natural and understandable confusion, so there is nothing odd about it. But it's still a confusion and it should be dismissed, because pursuing it is a waste of time and more importantly a misdirected use of one's thoughts and feelings. And it is certainly possible to dismiss it once you realize that it is of no importance.

As far as the comparison with getting over a girl, I would say that this sort of thing is on a different level only in that it's on a lesser level. The girl is an actual creature of flesh and blood that you knew and kissed and fucked and smelled, etc -- that gets deeply under your skin and into your brain and heart and it's not something that can be just turned off or forgotten. But these ancestors that one has never seen or had a relation to are not an organic part of one's life; rather, one is under the sway of an abstract idea about the prestige or importance of the past, and this idea is misguided and even dangerous and can and should be dismissed.

I can see where you're coming from and appreciate the post. But I can see certain types just wondering. He might be one of those, It is that lead a horse to water thing. It is also a matter of moving forward in life and if this somehow serves that purpose (I agree it doesn't). But he may just be hung up that people in the family won't share the back story like it is some terrible family secret, just tell him and get on with it.

Makes me think of "The Shawshank Redemption." - Andy and Red are discussing things and that great line "Get busy living or get busy dying" comes to mind.

Somehow this guy will need to find his closure - he will have to pick his path spend time chasing down information or making his peace with it and moving on. He will have to decide what is best for him. None of us can choose the right path for him, we are not him.

KD, does he want to find his parents and have a relationship with them? Or just wants to know more and some how that insulted his grandmother's efforts?

"KD, does he want to find his parents and have a relationship with them? Or just wants to know more and some how that insulted his grandmother's efforts?"

Samsamsam, all the above good man. This fool have spent the last 30 plus years inquiring and searching for answers and i don't expect him to suddenly turn off his curiosity overnight and move on with his life. He confessed one close relative suggested he start a family of his own because that's what he's missing and need in his life. I assured him and he agreed that's nonsense.
Everyone want something but what he wants, he'll never ever have. I maybe using this in the wrong context but "my kingdom for a horse" comes to mind.

[WestIndianArchie]

(08-04-2014 06:24 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  

What would cause a man to remove his child from it's mother and then placed it in his mother' care to then flee the country.

Man hated the woman, but wasn't prepared or even interested in being a father. Men abandon children and families all the time

WIA

[The Beast1]

(08-05-2014 10:27 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(08-04-2014 06:24 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  

What would cause a man to remove his child from it's mother and then placed it in his mother' care to then flee the country.

Man hated the woman, but wasn't prepared or even interested in being a father. Men abandon children and families all the time

WIA

Need more details, but most likely this.

[Onto]

I didn't realize he's been at this for 30 years. He maybe using this quest (unconsciously) as a substitute for self-realization. After all, he's literally looking for knowledge of his origins.

One thing you could do, if you haven't already, is next time he brings it up. Ask him some questions like,

"What do you think happened?"
"What do you fear may have happened?"
"What do you hope that happened?"

"What would it mean if that were the case?"

And so on, asking a follow up question based on his answer until he's done talking about it. Basically do some ad-hoc therapy with him by making him think through his feelings, see them, and hopefully work through them to the point where the origin of the parents is no longer the burning answer to who he is.

Then maybe he'll be free to find another, higher-level, type of answer to pursue.