[poledaddy]

I agree that Tucker is a total fraud, but I disagree with those saying he should be ignored because that Mating Grounds cannot grow an audience and eventually will fizzle out. He needs to be crushed.

The leverage Tucker has is: 1) the network of online celebrities he's built up over years 2) people here forget- 99% of males have not been exposed to the manosphere or at least not taken the red pill. You know Tim Ferriss will probably come on the podcast sooner or later since they are boys from back in the day. This will bring a flood of blue pillers- guys that have a negative view of the fuzzy hat PUA but are indoctrinated into feminism /thinking men and women are totally equal, etc. They might not have heard about the manosphere, or may have rejected it initially. Let's be honest - many of us probably (myself included) initially took some persuading after years of feminist indoctrination through pop culture, public education, etc. The guys that will be in MG's potential audience still have blinders on. Then hear a guy like Max saying this stuff that is music to their ears - "Awesome, you mean I can be successful with women AND look at everything as a win-win? Finally, this is just what I've been looking for".

Left unchecked, I think MG has a solid chance to build a organic audience if he continues to get endorsed from other bloggers, authors, etc. However, he can be hurt severely if we undertake long term, full-frontal assault on his credibility and those that associate with him, so that other people who would consider associating with him see that the risks outweigh the rewards. Everybody in RVF's sphere of influence needs to be attacking him every chance they get. It should be known that anyone who associates with him is going to get called out for associating with a fraud. Bring on the RoK articles. Keep putting up pictures of TM's girlfriend with higher testosterone than he he has. Roosh should seriously consider taking up MikeCF on his offer to sue him as it's pretty clear there's a solid case that would at minimum hurt Tucker financially.

At the end of the day we can say we don't care about pre-red pill guys, etc, but what is the fuck that? When I was much younger I started out reading Tim Ferriss back in the day. I used to have a much higher opinion of Ferriss since he opened my eyes to the world of online entrepreneurship when all I knew was the traditional corporate lifepath. If I was pre-Roosh/RoK and saw Tim's endorsement of Mating Grounds I might have been sucked in by Tucker Max's message. So if I say "oh well screw those blue pill guys", that's me saying "oh well screw the younger version of myself". Fuck that. It's an injustice that someone like Max can gain an audience and start a fraudulent PC male interest website, while shitting on Roosh and others telling the truth. Tucker Max, Geoffery Miller, and anyone who associates with them need to feel our collective wrath.

The minimum obligation for anyone reading this thread, is to write a negative review on itunes for his podcast, today. I've submitted mine already - have you?

[RockHard]

(07-28-2014 07:36 AM)Lucky Wrote:  

One of the primary concepts is negging, right? And it’s like, if there’s anyone on earth who’s famous for negging people and making fun of them, it’s fucking me. Okay?[/b] So, it’s like, when they do that, I’m always like, you guys are missing the fucking point. This doesn’t make sense. Teasing someone is funny, but the best teasing is always when both of you are in on the joke, not when you’re putting someone else down. They don’t get this, for the most part. As a community, they don’t understand that at all. They think it’s about putting the women down, making her feel shitty so that the woman will then search for your validation.

Surefire test to see if someone's an idiot when talking about game: they focus on negs. Every retard out there wants to go off on negging, because it's the only thing they can grasp: ooh, to succeed with women I have to insult them!

It only reinforces the fact that they don't understand the concept, let alone game.

And apparently Tucker hasn't read his own stories. He negs, insults, and fucks around with all kinds of women and most weren't "in on the joke".

Quote:

You’ve never, ever, ever seen a pick up artist who is a guy who was popular in high school or popular in college or popular anywhere outside of the pick up artist community ever.

Straight from PUAHate: if you weren't popular (charismatic) in HS or at least college, you're going to be celibate for life. It's the basic message of American culture these days: if you haven't made it by age 25, you're a loser, and you'll always be a loser. Thanks, Tucker.

[Comte De St. Germain]

Tucker Max is just counter productive. The guy only wants game and does not know what the hell he is talking about. I hadn't even heard of this fuck until MikeCF brought him up as some poser clown. The fact that he markets to provide an easy out for guys whom want to be popular with women through MG and a few words from a fraud evolutionary psychology professor is just pathetic. Only a blind fool would think this is a preferable path to self improvement. Lately I see a lot of young guys hitting the gym hard(not sure if this is just in my neck of the woods) and attempting to improve their appearance regardless of how beta they may be. Even the betas won't buy this shit. I guarantee you.

[darklightdispatch]

(07-28-2014 08:16 AM)Blaster Wrote:  

The main difference between them and Jezebel is that with Jezebel, it's plausible they actually believe the shit coming out of their mouths or are just acting out emotionally. With TM, you know that he knows better and is deliberately, consciously misrepresenting for his own benefit. It's Hugo Schwyzer syndrome.

Maybe, but we might be giving Tucker too much credit regarding what he actually understands. He was a decent-looking rich kid who fell into the successful frat boy experience due to circumstances. I read his books a while ago and, more than anything, he strikes me as a throwback to an earlier time.

In the 70s, 80s and 90s, you could be blue pill and still be a player much easier than today. Feminism had helped make girls open to casual sex but had not yet built into the SJW hysteria of today. Plus, a lot of traditional chivalry stuff was still in effect, since it wasn't that long ago that that stuff really still worked.

I think Tucker was always genuinely on board with feminist thinking. He viewed himself as a sort of misbehaving child in his dealings with women. He enjoyed breaking the rules and being "bad." I don't every remember reading anything where he actually questioned the feminist status quo, however.

[Libertas]

(07-28-2014 09:53 AM)RockHard Wrote:  

(07-28-2014 07:36 AM)Lucky Wrote:  

One of the primary concepts is negging, right? And it’s like, if there’s anyone on earth who’s famous for negging people and making fun of them, it’s fucking me. Okay?[/b] So, it’s like, when they do that, I’m always like, you guys are missing the fucking point. This doesn’t make sense. Teasing someone is funny, but the best teasing is always when both of you are in on the joke, not when you’re putting someone else down. They don’t get this, for the most part. As a community, they don’t understand that at all. They think it’s about putting the women down, making her feel shitty so that the woman will then search for your validation.

Surefire test to see if someone's an idiot when talking about game: they focus on negs. Every retard out there wants to go off on negging, because it's the only thing they can grasp: ooh, to succeed with women I have to insult them!

It only reinforces the fact that they don't understand the concept, let alone game.

And apparently Tucker hasn't read his own stories. He negs, insults, and fucks around with all kinds of women and most weren't "in on the joke".

Have I woken up and it's 2006 again? Who the hell even talks about "negging" anymore anyway?

If you're good-looking, cool, interesting, non-needy guy you don't need "negs." The whole point the Manosphere tries to make is to become that guy so that you don't need those kinds of fig-leafs.

(07-28-2014 09:53 AM)RockHard Wrote:  

Quote:

You’ve never, ever, ever seen a pick up artist who is a guy who was popular in high school or popular in college or popular anywhere outside of the pick up artist community ever.

Straight from PUAHate: if you weren't popular (charismatic) in HS or at least college, you're going to be celibate for life. It's the basic message of American culture these days: if you haven't made it by age 25, you're a loser, and you'll always be a loser. Thanks, Tucker.

Yep, and this message does more harm than anything else. Still in my mid-twenties and a year ago I felt rather inadequate even though I was basically just a normal (maybe even above average) guy who needed some more motivation. It's worked. I can't imagine what it must be like to feel that way when you're in your thirties or even forties.

All he's doing here is attacking a strawman and then trying to make guys feel bad about trying to improve themselves by associating them with silly stuff. It's straight out of the left-wing playbook.

I was content to sit on the sidelines and as Marcus Luttrell notes in Service "let the situation develop."

But Mike got it right from the start. Fuck this guy. He needs to be crushed. I'll admit I didn't even know how much of a following he really hard (even if declining). I hope Roosh takes up Mike's offer and looks into bringing a suit.

[___]

Scumbag of the highest order.

Dude reminds me of that clown from "Girls Gone Wild".

[MikeCF]

(07-28-2014 07:36 AM)Lucky Wrote:  

You’ve never, ever, ever seen a pick up artist who is a guy who was popular in high school or popular in college or popular anywhere outside of the pick up artist community ever.

Yet in today's podcast they say: "Your mate value changes a lot over time – and if you’re a 17 year old guy, then by your mid-twenties you can be great with women. Even Tucker and Geoff weren’t amazing with women in high school."

Wait....What?

Again, these rip-offs have nothing of value to offer. They can't even keep their message coherent from one podcast to the next.

Their material is rife with contradictions.

Keep hitting them hard. They are off balance. They have no message or mooring.

[el mechanico]

Mike you want a piece of this guy huh?

[Mongo]

I was entertained by his books, I won't deny that. How true the stories are didn't matter, because I never considered them to be realistic achievements to strive for. As for his new venture, all the material I've seen on there just strikes me as garbage. Pick a lane and stick to it, I say. For example, McQueen is big on self-improvement, and of his stuff I've read it seems to revolve around improving yourself and letting the game take care of itself with some minor work. The MatingGrounds stuff just comes across as trying to be a little bit of what everybody else does, just classic "Fall for everything and end up standing for nothing" bullshit.

[Kaywhole]

Tucker is a Business Guy. He's like the guys who write self-help ebooks with clickbait titles just to see how many one dollar sales they can get on amazon. He never earned his stripes as a blogger, he just wants to go from concept to sales without ever paying his dues. I've been reading Roosh since the DC Bachelor days. Roosh put down a lot of words before having any books for sale. Roosh, VK, Roissy in DC; these guys are real bloggers who organically built up an audience through good writing and being honest and unafraid to write the real shit. Only after establishing rapport did they try to sell anything - and it was stuff their fans wanted.

Tucker is trying to copy this model. He wants to go from blog to book as part of a ploy to make money. He's a fucking fraud who is trying to take something organic and make it formulaic. It's profit without passion and he's going to fail.

Also: Tucker Max's girlfriend is not attractive. For fuck's sake, how could anyone take him seriously?

[Giovonny]

Desperate people do desperate things.

Desperate people are also dangerous.

I normally don't get involved in other peoples "beefs"

But, this guy is outright lying to make Roosh look bad.

This angers me.

If I ever catch him in a dark alley, late at night, I will throw him in the trunk of my car and drive him straight to MikeCF's house.

But, I probably won't need to. He will cause his own suffering with his own stupidity.

[L M McCoy]

this was clearly a publicity stunt. When you google tucker, one finds crap. When you google Roosh, you find hate and resent.

[Quintus Curtius]

(07-28-2014 01:47 PM)___ Wrote:  

Scumbag of the highest order.

Dude reminds me of that clown from "Girls Gone Wild".

That would be Joe Francis. You mean you wouldn't trust this face?

"Give me $29.95 for my video of college dipshits flashing and giggling!"

[polymath]

(07-28-2014 04:03 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

If I ever catch him in a dark alley, late at night, I will throw him in the trunk of my car and drive him straight to MikeCF's house.

But, I probably won't need to. He will cause his own suffering with his own stupidity.

MikeCF will track him down before you can, by the looks of things.

Realistically, Tucker Max is running on the successes of yesteryear. He's getting too old to keep selling the same young-and-drunk stories that made him famous ten years ago. He's kind of a one-trick pony who tells funny stories about getting drunk and doing strange things. After a while the schtick gets old.

It's not that he's stupid IMO...the issue is that his career is out of gas.

[Quintus Curtius]

^^^

Right. And to revive that career, he's going for the quick fix, the short-end buck. Like any scavenger, he has cast around and realized that there really is something to this "manosphere" business. Since he has nothing to offer except bullshit stories, the next best thing is to come onto the scene and start tossing grenades everywhere.

Take pot shots at everyone, rip into the big figures, throw around bullshit accusations. Get some attention! Why not, right?

That's his whole thing.

If you have nothing of value to say, teach, offer, or share, the only thing you can really do is rip off other people or attack them.

Something tells me that he's fucked with the wrong crowd. I get the feeling that the ice is melting right underneath his feet...and he doesn't even know it yet. The sad part about it is that if he had showed even a minimum of respect and humility, nobody would have had any problem.

But you don't enter someone's house and start pissing on the rug.

Scammers, liars, and thieves will be hunted down and ruthlessly exposed.

[Libertas]

Just by that picture in the OP alone, you can already tell everything necessary about this project. Most of it is just bashing other people, and the things that they are saying are not things that haven't already been said. They aren't new or revolutionary. There's no value being added. All he can do is hide like a rat and take potshots at people.

Marcus Luttrell talked about the insurgents in Ramadi being of different backgrounds but they all failed to learn the same lesson:

If you choose to fight the SEALs, you are eventually going to lose.

That is what I am reminded of with this whole affair.

I don't like getting involved in controversies generally, especially online, but I've benefited greatly from this community and I don't want scammers and charlatans besmirching its integrity. It's now beyond any doubt that that's what Tucker and his crew are doing.

[Goldmund]

(07-28-2014 04:56 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Something tells me that he's fucked with the wrong crowd. I get the feeling that the ice is melting right underneath his feet...and he doesn't even know it yet. The sad part about it is that if he had showed even a minimum of respect and humility, nobody would have had any problem.

But you don't enter someone's house and start pissing on the rug.

Scammers, liars, and thieves will be hunted down and ruthlessly exposed.

You just summarized the plot of the greatest American film of the 1990's

[Slick Shimmer]

Wow, Tucker truly is an awful writer. He just rambles and throws badly timed swear-words in here and there. He's got no charisma, he's go no spark, and worst of all, he's truly got no content. As far as "style" goes, he ripped off Maddox, who ripped off Seanbaby. Seanbaby has been ripped off by an awful lot of people though. The point here is that the style he is using actually pre-dates broadband Internet.

But it's quite clear Tucker has nothing of value to say. He just doesn't matter.
I was happy to ignore him previously, but now I'll laugh at him.

[Cattle Rustler]

Ignoring him is the best recipe as his attention whoring ways will find a way to hamsterize negative attention.

Remember the quote, don't feed the trolls.

[el mechanico]

(07-28-2014 07:22 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

Ignoring him is the best recipe as his attention whoring ways will find a way to hamsterize negative attention.

Remember the quote, don't feed the trolls.

He's not a troll. He's stealing stuff he finds online and some of Mikes stuff. That makes him some kind of other guy who's identity is known and is poking at the hornets nest.

Maybe he thinks it's online until it's not online.

[TheBulldozer]

(07-28-2014 07:28 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(07-28-2014 07:22 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

Ignoring him is the best recipe as his attention whoring ways will find a way to hamsterize negative attention.

Remember the quote, don't feed the trolls.

He's not a troll. He's stealing stuff he finds online and some of Mikes stuff. That makes him some kind of other guy who's identity is known and is poking at the hornets nest.

Maybe he thinks it's online until it's not online.

And that's the thing.

Mike has the:
A. Time
B. Money
C. Brain

To do basically whatever he wants to in this situation. A lot of people on here are keyboard cowboys, but Mike is certainly not.

[lurker]

(07-28-2014 10:26 AM)darklightdispatch Wrote:  

(07-28-2014 08:16 AM)Blaster Wrote:  

The main difference between them and Jezebel is that with Jezebel, it's plausible they actually believe the shit coming out of their mouths or are just acting out emotionally. With TM, you know that he knows better and is deliberately, consciously misrepresenting for his own benefit. It's Hugo Schwyzer syndrome.

Maybe, but we might be giving Tucker too much credit regarding what he actually understands. He was a decent-looking rich kid who fell into the successful frat boy experience due to circumstances. I read his books a while ago and, more than anything, he strikes me as a throwback to an earlier time.

He graduated with honors from the University of Chicago in three years and took a full ride to Duke Law. You can say a lot of things about the guy, but don't underestimate his intelligence or ability to parse something, whether or not he chooses to display it in his public persona.

[TheBulldozer]

(07-28-2014 09:45 PM)lurker Wrote:  

(07-28-2014 10:26 AM)darklightdispatch Wrote:  

(07-28-2014 08:16 AM)Blaster Wrote:  

The main difference between them and Jezebel is that with Jezebel, it's plausible they actually believe the shit coming out of their mouths or are just acting out emotionally. With TM, you know that he knows better and is deliberately, consciously misrepresenting for his own benefit. It's Hugo Schwyzer syndrome.

Maybe, but we might be giving Tucker too much credit regarding what he actually understands. He was a decent-looking rich kid who fell into the successful frat boy experience due to circumstances. I read his books a while ago and, more than anything, he strikes me as a throwback to an earlier time.

He graduated with honors from the University of Chicago in three years and took a full ride to Duke Law. You can say a lot of things about the guy, but don't underestimate his intelligence or ability to parse something, whether or not he chooses to display it in his public persona.

What has he done with it though? What has he done in the past 10 years?

Any lawyer could tell you that law school and the bar has nothing to do with actual law practice.

Tuck is in his mid-30's. That's the point in life where no one really gives a shit where you went to school or what your GPA is. What have you done as an adult?

[darklightdispatch]

(07-28-2014 09:45 PM)lurker Wrote:  

He graduated with honors from the University of Chicago in three years and took a full ride to Duke Law. You can say a lot of things about the guy, but don't underestimate his intelligence or ability to parse something, whether or not he chooses to display it in his public persona.

To me, all that academic success is a point in support of the idea that he is and always was a status-quo progressive/feminist. That's the underlying ideology that permeates all of academia.

There are plenty of smart and ambitious people who just aren't very thoughtful or reflective. My impression is that he's like the archetypal politician. His angle, what is best for him is always the top, if not only priority. The issues or ideas don't matter for their own sake, it's how they can be used for personal gain. In contrast, someone like Roosh makes a point to say the harsh or ugly truth, regardless of whether its going to benefit him.

[Cobra]

I wrote about people like him recently in another thread:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-38467-...#pid788173

He definitely fits that profile of people with a huge lack of real-life experience that write based on "internet" experience instead. The basis of his fame was the internet mainly not real life experiences that men like MikeCF and Roosh write about.