[Goldmund]

What are your experiences with the two?

Now that I work out alone, with no spotter, I don't do bench presses anymore. My chest is built from dumbbell flys and the hammer strength machine:

Its basically a sit-up incline press.

I have been working with it hard now for about 8 months and just maxed out today with two presses at 275.

With the bench press I was never able to press 235 more than once.

How much of a difference is the hammer when compared to the bench?

[Hans Dix]

If you're lifting solo I recommend DB press. Not only can you do it without a spot but it's better for building a more even and stable chest and arms.

I normally bench back home when I'm with my gym partner but since I went to Europe I've been lifting solo. Chest days consist of a shit ton of DB work. Honestly can't remember the last time I used a barbell on chest day.

[Dusty]

I used the hammer machines a couple years ago and my chest got too big! My chest was disproportionally large , which is better than a concave chest, but it looked too out of whack with the rest of my body.

I like a balanced and proportional athletic look.

I do push ups for my chest now.

[jimmyjohns]

I agree with Hans Dix. Dumbells really are the best for solo lifting.

As far as the hammer machine, I've used it in the past and it did seem slightly easier than the bench with the same weight.

[Albertron]

Machines will always be inferior to free weights. This is evidenced by the fact that the machine weight is greater than your bench weight. There's a weakness your bench is exposing and this weakness is ignored by the assisted motion of the Hammer Strength machine.

Why not just lower your bench weight if you have no spotter? Pretty odd to replace an important and critical compound movement with an inferior one.

[Goldmund]

(06-17-2014 04:56 PM)Albertron Wrote:  

Machines will always be inferior to free weights. This is evidenced by the fact that the machine weight is greater than your bench weight. There's a weakness your bench is exposing and this weakness is ignored by the assisted motion of the Hammer Strength machine.

Why not just lower your bench weight if you have no spotter? Pretty odd to replace an important and critical compound movement with an inferior one.

I agree with you on the free weights but:

-I don't feel I have a real workout unless I can max out, I just love the feeling of pushing until exhaustion.
-I like the way the hammer shapes my chest better than the bench does.

[Rutting Elephant]

Power cage, fuck a spotter. Worst case scenario, I wriggle off the bench onto the floor.

[monster]

I hate that hammer strength machine. Puts my wrists and shoulders in a weird position no matter how i adjust it.

[samsamsam]

I have been trying to lift slower and more intensely along the lines of what MikeCF has been saying at his blog dangerandplay.com. I think he calls it HIT.

If you don't need to brag about how much you are lifting to your friends, I think it it comes down to just how hard you are working your muscles and how fatigued you get them. I am getting better workouts by dropping my weight on the bench to 185 and doing 5 to 7 second decreases and 3 to 5 second presses for 5 to 10 reps. Then I drop and do pushups to squeeze out the last bit.

Tomorrow I may try the machines for upper body.

[Goldmund]

(06-17-2014 07:42 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

I have been trying to lift slower and more intensely along the lines of what MikeCF has been saying at his blog dangerandplay.com. I think he calls it HIT.

If you don't need to brag about how much you are lifting to your friends, I think it it comes down to just how hard you are working your muscles and how fatigued you get them. I am getting better workouts by dropping my weight on the bench to 185 and doing 5 to 7 second decreases and 3 to 5 second presses for 5 to 10 reps. Then I drop and do pushups to squeeze out the last bit.

Tomorrow I may try the machines.

Are you getting bigger that way?

[Mongo]

To answer the O.P., it depends on your goal. If you feel you get a good chest workout from it and it satisfies your goals, then it's doing its job.

If you are scared to bench w/o a spotter, just don't put clips on the bar. You have to focus on producing even force through both hands, and if you get pinned you can dump the weights off the sides.

[samsamsam]

I have only been doing it for a week. But I definitely feel like I am completely exhausting myself in a way that I wasn't getting earlier. I had gotten up to benching 275 two or three times, but I realized it was a number and it was more useful trying to build strength without hurting myself.

The other day I was watching this kid deadlift 275 and he was bouncing the hell out of it. He was using momentum to feel like he could lift heavier weight but it wasn't useful other than to blow up his ego. He also let our a war cry before each set, which was fucking annoying.

My point is nice and slow builds real strength any momentum, etc. might not really be giving you the strength you may be seeking.

I like what I am doing now as far as technique goes. I changed up my squat routine and didn't use the rack I used that thing where you are sort of upside down and just did it friggin slow and it hurt, in a good way. The goal is to train to failure, without injury.

Here is podcast from dangerandplay about HIT (High Intensity Training)

http://www.dangerandplay.com/2014/03/02/...interview/

[samsamsam]

(06-17-2014 08:01 PM)Mongo Wrote:  

To answer the O.P., it depends on your goal. If you feel you get a good chest workout from it and it satisfies your goals, then it's doing its job.

If you are scared to bench w/o a spotter, just don't put clips on the bar. You have to focus on producing even force through both hands, and if you get pinned you can dump the weights off the sides.

Sorry don't agree plenty of stories of people dying while benching. I remember a story where a kid couldn't do what you are suggesting and died. Just ask for a spot, or finish off with pushups until failure.

Here is one article. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...arage.html

Quote:

A fitness fanatic has been crushed to death by weight-training equipment he had only just bought, to 'save on gym fees'.

Chris Bailey was found sprawled on the work out bench trapped beneath the weight of the heavy bar, which was laid across his chest.

It was believed he had been dead for several hours before his body was discovered in the garage of his home.

Police said they were treating the death as 'unexplained' while they waited for the results of a post-mortem examination

[Bushido]

^^^ Use a power rack. Problem solved.

[TheBulldozer]

(06-17-2014 07:54 PM)Goldmund Wrote:  

(06-17-2014 07:42 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

I have been trying to lift slower and more intensely along the lines of what MikeCF has been saying at his blog dangerandplay.com. I think he calls it HIT.

If you don't need to brag about how much you are lifting to your friends, I think it it comes down to just how hard you are working your muscles and how fatigued you get them. I am getting better workouts by dropping my weight on the bench to 185 and doing 5 to 7 second decreases and 3 to 5 second presses for 5 to 10 reps. Then I drop and do pushups to squeeze out the last bit.

Tomorrow I may try the machines.

Are you getting bigger that way?

I have been lifting this way for the past six months or so. Without tooting my horn, I'd like to say I'm pretty jacked but still cut with a 31/32 waist. My body is much bulkier than it was even a few months ago. I still will bench and work in free weights just to keep my workouts fun and different.

I work on holding weights at different positions as long as I can. I also focus on doing half/third reps with slow contractions.

[lowside]

one week i'll use the machine, week after that the bench with less weight (don't have a spotter either), a third week dumbells on a bench.

i do my chest every week consistently ofcourse. but do not use the same exercise every time. same goes for every other muscle group.

[Mongo]

(06-17-2014 08:05 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(06-17-2014 08:01 PM)Mongo Wrote:  

To answer the O.P., it depends on your goal. If you feel you get a good chest workout from it and it satisfies your goals, then it's doing its job.

If you are scared to bench w/o a spotter, just don't put clips on the bar. You have to focus on producing even force through both hands, and if you get pinned you can dump the weights off the sides.

Sorry don't agree plenty of stories of people dying while benching. I remember a story where a kid couldn't do what you are suggesting and died. Just ask for a spot, or finish off with pushups until failure.

Here is one article. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...arage.html

Quote:

A fitness fanatic has been crushed to death by weight-training equipment he had only just bought, to 'save on gym fees'.

Chris Bailey was found sprawled on the work out bench trapped beneath the weight of the heavy bar, which was laid across his chest.

It was believed he had been dead for several hours before his body was discovered in the garage of his home.

Police said they were treating the death as 'unexplained' while they waited for the results of a post-mortem examination

Couple things about that: First off he was drunk when he went into the garage to start lifting. And it doesn't say whether or not he had clips on the bar. If he did, then yes it makes sense why he couldn't get the bar off of his chest. However, if you leave the clips off, the weights can easily be slid off simply by tilting the bar.

[Kieran]

I used to use this (although not as my main movement) back in my early twenties when I dabbled in bodybuilding. It was one of my favourite machines (also really like the hammer strength seated row machine), and my upper chest was definitely at its fullest when I was using it.

Part of the reason I think it was so effective is because of the angle (the handles move inwards towards each other as you get to the top of the movement). This keeps tension on the chest at the top of the movement because of the force pushing outwards, which isn't there in a free weight version which only has vertical resistance from gravity.

[Hades]

If you guys are that wigged out about benching with no spotter then just get a good dip belt (build one out of a foam noodle and chain with carabiners) and start doing weighted dips, no spot required and better potential for chest development than bench press anyway.

Old school lifters and plenty of bodybuilders have done weighted dips in the neighborhood of +300 - 400 pounds. Not many guys today could touch that.

To answer the OP, there's almost assuredly carryover between a hammer strength machine and the bench press, but it's probably not 1:1.

[GTS]

You shouldn't get completely trapped under the bar unless you're being stupidly greedy without safety bars in place.

If you're being reasonable, the worst case would be failing with a manageable weight. Ideally, you want to avoid this situation because it makes you look like an idiot, but you can always use the roll of shame to get the weight off.

[weambulance]

I don't use any weight lifting machines. For my upper body pushing muscles, I primarily do dips and barbell overhead press these days. I supplement with pushups. I've never been big into bench press; it's okay, but I honestly don't like the exercise very much. I'm fat right now but in the past I developed an awesome chest almost exclusively with dips, dumbbell flies, and loads of pushups.

As far as benching solo, yeah, I don't worry about it. Just don't be stupid and practice escaping the weight if you're going to lift really heavy alone. Roll of shame, pins, dump it, whatever. Have a plan before you load up for a PR without a spotter.

[cool]

Be careful with weighted dips. I tweaked my rotator cuff doing those.

[kosko]

The hammer push is just a good way to get a pump in at the end. When my gym had one zi would use it to burn out at the end of my chest routine. As folks mentioned though, machines are flawed. DBs keep shit even and correct your imbalances.

[Fighting888]

(06-17-2014 04:56 PM)Albertron Wrote:  

Machines will always be inferior to free weights. This is evidenced by the fact that the machine weight is greater than your bench weight. There's a weakness your bench is exposing and this weakness is ignored by the assisted motion of the Hammer Strength machine.

Why not just lower your bench weight if you have no spotter? Pretty odd to replace an important and critical compound movement with an inferior one.

Free weights can be more beneficial, as you have to work on your balance. Machines have their place in your workout, but I think it's better to do both. Bench one week, machine the next. Mixing it up gives you the best results.

Sometimes you should vary your weight and reps.

The more you mix up your routine, the better your results.

[General Mayhem]

I lift solo the majority of the time because I don't trust many people to spot me.

That being said, I would never use the hammer strength as my primary chest exercise. I've experimented with it and never became a fan. You are extremely limited, whereas with a bar you can change your grip and the bar's path of travel a lot more.

As a lot of other guys have stated, the power rack is golden. I have gotten some great chest workouts in the power rack.

You can't just mindlessly pound out the reps though. The trick is to lower the bar slower than you would on a normal bench. Lower it to the safety bars, pause, then explode up. Don't forget the pause.

Another reason this is great is because it keep you used to the feel of behind under a bar. It functions almost like a board press, which is how a lot of powerlifters get comfortable with heavier weights before they go full ROM.

Don't be afraid to stack on extra weight.

You can use freeweights as a supplement to get your full ROM fix, but nothing replaces work under the bar.