[puckerman]

(06-24-2014 08:59 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

- It's a bit too car-centric for my liking. There are only a handful of pedestrian friendly areas outside of downtown.

One of the worst myths ever accepted by people is the myth that pedestrian friendly must be car hostile and vice versa.

I grew up in a small town with grid streets. They are car friendly and pedestrian friendly. Most of these silly suburbian neighborhoods are hostile toward both.

[TheChi]

Miami is expensive. Rent in a decent place will run you $1300+ and drinks are pretty pricey. On top of that you pretty much need to have a car, unless you live on the beach. The nice highrises on the beach are even pricier since there aren't that many of them, it's primarily shitty two floor walk-ups.

Going out and drinking is also pretty expensive...unless you want to go to shitty bars and hang out with guys wearing Tap-Out shirts and chubby Guatemalan girls. But that's not why you come to Miami haha

(06-24-2014 09:18 AM)metalhaze Wrote:  

Hi, I was wondering how much would it cost to live in Miami ?

[puckerman]

Here is something to add about Austin. When I moved to Austin in August of 2004, I arrived on a Sunday afternoon with no job. I had a place by Tuesday evening.

In April of 2015, my landlord sold the place where I had lived for over ten years. I had a great deal and would have stayed as long as I could have. I then went to look for something similar.

I lived in Studio Six for nine weeks. I finally found a place at the end of June. It was the toughest search I'd ever had. I met with lots of people and had an excellent history as a roommate and a tenant. I ended up taking a place by myself, which is probably too much.

Austin has officially become unlivable.

[zatara]

(05-13-2016 01:03 AM)puckerman Wrote:  

Here is something to add about Austin. When I moved to Austin in August of 2004, I arrived on a Sunday afternoon with no job. I had a place by Tuesday evening.

In April of 2015, my landlord sold the place where I had lived for over ten years. I had a great deal and would have stayed as long as I could have. I then went to look for something similar.

I lived in Studio Six for nine weeks. I finally found a place at the end of June. It was the toughest search I'd ever had. I met with lots of people and had an excellent history as a roommate and a tenant. I ended up taking a place by myself, which is probably too much.

Austin has officially become unlivable.

Anywhere that becomes a tech-hub becomes unlivable very fast. You get huge numbers of nerdy males under 40 on high wages moving into the city. This leads to rapid increases in rent, beer and restaurant prices, and nightlife/dating ratios getting trashed.

Its the reason the SF bay area is probably the worst major city in the US to live in as a single man.

[puckerman]

(05-13-2016 09:35 AM)zatara Wrote:  

Anywhere that becomes a tech-hub becomes unlivable very fast. You get huge numbers of nerdy males under 40 on high wages moving into the city. This leads to rapid increases in rent, beer and restaurant prices, and nightlife/dating ratios getting trashed.

Its the reason the SF bay area is probably the worst major city in the US to live in as a single man.

There are no "high wages" here in Austin. I could go to other Texas cities and get a similar job for about the same money. Many people talk of going to other cities and making more money doing the same work.

It is due almost solely to all the "immigrants" from California. This especially includes Los Angeles, which is not a tech hub at all.

And there are very few making "high wages" in tech. Most of us make enough to support ourselves, and that's about it. I still make less than $60,000 per year--so much for the "high wages." Many who work in tech have spouses who also work. The last thing we need is more people promoting the myth that there are lots of "high wages" in tech. The business is already saturated with too many people looking for jobs, and we don't need any more.

[zatara]

(05-13-2016 10:01 AM)puckerman Wrote:  

There are no "high wages" here in Austin. I could go to other Texas cities and get a similar job for about the same money. Many people talk of going to other cities and making more money doing the same work.

It is due almost solely to all the "immigrants" from California. This especially includes Los Angeles, which is not a tech hub at all.

And there are very few making "high wages" in tech. Most of us make enough to support ourselves, and that's about it. I still make less than $60,000 per year--so much for the "high wages." Many who work in tech have spouses who also work. The last thing we need is more people promoting the myth that there are lots of "high wages" in tech. The business is already saturated with too many people looking for jobs, and we don't need any more.

That entire post is statistically...completely wrong. Austin has the 28th highest average salary of all US metro areas, out of 938. It's a well paid city. In regards to there being 'no high wages' in the tech industry; tech industry workers earned an average wage of $100,400 in 2014, 102 percent more than the U.S. average private sector wage. Its a very well paid employment field. Austin also has the 5th highest number of per capita tech workers of any metro area in the United States. Forbes last year named it the "the number one city for tech growth". The number of tech workers there are growing massively on a year-to-year basis.

Just because you yourself aren't on a good wage and are apparently scared of more workers coming to your city it doesn't count for much. Your experience is apparently entirely anecdotal, and the economic statistics disagree with you completely. It's fairly well established both that tech jobs tend to be well remunerated, and that Austin is a regional hub for them experiencing massive growth in the industry.

[Kish]

(05-13-2016 09:35 AM)zatara Wrote:  

Anywhere that becomes a tech-hub becomes unlivable very fast. You get huge numbers of nerdy males under 40 on high wages moving into the city. This leads to rapid increases in rent, beer and restaurant prices, and nightlife/dating ratios getting trashed.

Its the reason the SF bay area is probably the worst major city in the US to live in as a single man.

Great post. This happened to DC and Northern Virginia as well.

[puckerman]

(05-13-2016 10:43 AM)zatara Wrote:  

That entire post is statistically...completely wrong.

And statistics are often...completely wrong. For all I know, you could have made them up. You provide one source, although you aren't clear about it.

But your post has made it clear that you don't work in the industry. Do you know people who do?

Quote:

Forbes last year named it the "the number one city for tech growth".

Here is the source, although we have no idea which issue of Forbes it was. Maybe I will look it up sometime.

Quote:

Just because you yourself aren't on a good wage and are apparently scared of more workers coming to your city it doesn't count for much.

I don't want more people to move here, for obvious reasons. Since you have never lived here, you probably haven't seen the traffic here.

Quote:

Your experience is apparently entirely anecdotal, and the economic statistics disagree with you completely.

Have you considered that I talk to other people? Have you considered that I know other people in the industry?

My comments are based on experience. Your comments are based on sitting in front of a computer and looking stuff up.

[zatara]

(05-28-2016 12:22 AM)puckerman Wrote:  

And statistics are often...completely wrong. For all I know, you could have made them up. You provide one source, although you aren't clear about it.

But your post has made it clear that you don't work in the industry. Do you know people who do?

Here is the source, although we have no idea which issue of Forbes it was. Maybe I will look it up sometime.

I don't want more people to move here, for obvious reasons. Since you have never lived here, you probably haven't seen the traffic here.

Have you considered that I talk to other people? Have you considered that I know other people in the industry?

My comments are based on experience. Your comments are based on sitting in front of a computer and looking stuff up.

I've been to Austin. I work in tech. I didn't bring up my own anecdotal evidence to dispute your points because anecdotes rarely prove anything definitively. Statistics provide empirical proof. You can argue statistics are completely wrong because they disagree with your own beliefs, but thats not exactly an intelligent, or believable, argument.

I didn't bother to list sources because I figured for someone who works in tech it would be quite easy for you to Google them. But here you go:

Austin has the 28th highest average salary of all US metro areas, out of 938. - http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/news/2...30-of.html

Austin has the 5th highest number of per capita tech workers of any metro area in the United States - http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2...tech-jobs/

Tech industry workers earned an average wage of $100,400 in 2014, 102 percent more than the U.S. average private sector wage. - http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/...33265.html

Forbes last year named Austin the "the number one city for tech growth". - http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2...03739a3a11

Its highly misleading of you to post complete untruths to the forum to try to scare people away from moving to Austin, just because you're scared of professional competition. That's why I'm calling you out with my "completely made up statistics". After the recent Nasa Test Pilot saga its probably important people are fact checked when they post highly questionable things.

[puckerman]

(05-28-2016 07:13 AM)zatara Wrote:  

I've been to Austin. I work in tech. I didn't bring up my own anecdotal evidence to dispute your points because anecdotes rarely prove anything definitively. Statistics provide empirical proof. You can argue statistics are completely wrong because they disagree with your own beliefs, but tha'ts not exactly an intelligent, or believable, argument.

It's very easy to manipulate numbers to make them mean what you want them to mean.

Quote:

Austin has the 28th highest average salary of all US metro areas, out of 938. - http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/news/2...30-of.html

This is a statement based on all fields and all professions. It doesn't take into account the work people do or how many people are doing it.

I know that Austin has a large number of lawyers. Of course, this will drive up average salaries for all people. But does a lawyer in Austin make the same amount of money as a lawyer in a city like San Antonio? This study doesn't answer that question, but that is really the question that matters.

Quote:

Austin has the 5th highest number of per capita tech workers of any metro area in the United States

I never disputed this, although "tech" does mean different things to different people. Are you including chemists, physicists, too? I should say that when I refer to "tech," I refer to any field that involves information technology. I don't include engineers in other fields, chemists, or physicists. I refer mainly to programmers, software developers, and tech support people.

Plus, the people who do non-tech jobs for tech companies do make more. A person who does sales for a techie company will make more money than a person doing sales for a non-techie company.

Quote:

Tech industry workers earned an average wage of $100,400 in 2014, 102 percent more than the U.S. average private sector wage. - http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/...33265.html

I won't dispute this number either because there are many upper managers who make a lot more than this. They drive up the averages for all fields. Of course, most people still never see the big bucks. If you have one person making a million dollars and nine making $50,000, that will skew the average.

Working in tech is a lot being an actor. The ones who make the "big bucks" make all the magazines and newspapers, but they are hardly representative of what is really going on. And just like acting, tech has a lot of people who aren't in it for very long. They get into it, find out it's a totally over-hyped career field, and then leave.

Quote:

Its highly misleading of you to post complete untruths to the forum to try to scare people away from moving to Austin, just because you're scared of professional competition.

Actually I discourage most people from moving here, especially if they are from California. I've been here since 2004. That means I've sat in traffic jams in all hours and had long drives that never should have been as long. I've experienced these traffic jams because I live here, work here, and play here.

Based on in-person conversations with actual human beings who also live here, I know that my sentiments are hardly unique. Anytime I talk to someone who has lived here as long as I have, the person just says something like, "Yes, I get it." Many people have already left. Many people who have been here for 15 or 20 years are thinking about leaving as well. I am able to have these conversations because I do take time to get off the computer and talk to real people who live here.

If I had wanted to live in California, I would have moved there. I naively assumed I was safe because of the distance. I know Austin isn't the only city to be ruined by Californization, and it probably won't be the last either.

[zatara]

It's "very easy to manipulate numbers to make them mean what you want them to mean" but your anecdotal evidence is more reliable? Riiiight. I posted hard statistical figures, the reader can interpret them as they wish. You've posted nothing but conjecture arising from fear of people taking your job.

Your original statements were:

"There are no high wages here in Austin"
"the myth that there are lots of high wages in tech." - ie there are no high wages in tech
and Austin is "saturated with too many people looking for [tech] jobs, and we don't need any more". ie there are no tech jobs in Austin

All three of these are demonstrably incorrect. As the figures show. You can argue semantics in multi-quotes more if you like, but until you post hard figures to back up your points they're going to be disreputable.

As I stated in my initial post I wouldn't recommend anyone from this forum move to Austin for game reasons. Because all tech hubs, including Austin, are awful for gaming in. But its a great city to move to for a year or two of career progression if someone is in the tech field. It's slightly bizarre that you're trying so hard to argue this point against all facts (and general tech industry opinion, for that matter).

[Running Turtles]

I just want to throw this tool out there: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/

In Europe at least, it works fairly well. Don't take the stated prices of things to be completely true individually, but if you look at the top blue box, like in this comparison, you'll get a reasonably good idea about the price differences.

It also helps to scroll through and see if there are any huge differences in certain things. Rent tends to be a thing that varies considerably even when other prices are relatively similar.

[puckerman]

Actually there is one source I do consider reliable for this. I'm going to share a link to the Robert Half Technology salary guide:

https://www.roberthalf.com/sites/default..._guide.pdf

If you scroll down to page 26 in the PDF, you will find "local variances." With 100 being average, Austin does get a rating of 107.

However, Dallas gets 108, Fort Worth gets 107.5, Houston gets 107.5, and San Antonio gets 100. Midland/Odessa gets 115.

This rating of 107 is slightly above average, and that is all it is. And when you factor in the outrageous cost-of-living, Austin is a city where you will work hard and still be poor.

I'm not sure what their methodology is, but they are a company who places people in many different fields. It's their job to know this stuff.

[puckerman]

(05-28-2016 09:09 AM)zatara Wrote:  

Your original statements were:

"There are no high wages here in Austin"

This is an example of what I call the context-dropping troll. You took one sentence out of the three and responded to it as if it were a stand-alone sentence. My original statement was three sentences:

Quote:

There are no "high wages" here in Austin. I could go to other Texas cities and get a similar job for about the same money. Many people talk of going to other cities and making more money doing the same work.

And this is true, as the RHT stats prove.

[puckerman]

(05-28-2016 09:09 AM)zatara Wrote:  

and Austin is "saturated with too many people looking for [tech] jobs, and we don't need any more". ie there are no tech jobs in Austin

I never said there are no jobs. I said there are "too many people looking." Are you saying that every tech person in Austin has a job? Are you implying that every tech person in Austin could leave their current job and easily find a new one?

There are lots of acting jobs in Hollywood, but there are also lots of people looking for them.

I'm naturally curious as to why this debate is so important to you. It looks like you live in France, so I wonder how much experience you even have working and living here in America. I have no judgments about tech in other countries. My comments are mainly applied to America. If it sounded like I was making a comment about tech worldwide, that was not my intention.

I suspect working conditions in France are much better than in America. After all, you don't have a bunch of Indians coming into your country taking all the tech jobs that Americans would love to do.

[Nitro]

I live in Chicago. Rents are much higher than just a couple years ago. Rents on the North side now can run you about $1K just for a studio or 1BD easy. This increase is disproportionate to the minimum wage to $10/hr.

[Oilrig]

As an in demand recruiter I could work for Google in austin, or any other tech company like Amazon or facebook making six figures. Which is about the same as the oil industry pays. Austin tech jobs pay well but you have to have the Experience they're looking for.

[Monty_Brogan]

From a renter's perspective, Chicago has to be the biggest cheap city to live in. Yes, if you want to live in a hip area that has been up and coming for years now -LS, LP, West Loop, River North, S. Loop, Wicker Park, Bucktown, Lakeview, etc, etc, you will pay out your ass. But there's still tons of neighborhoods in good areas on every side of the city that you can find cheap rent and good parking -the latter is the best part about the neighborhoods.

I pay $765 for a 1 bed apt. and I'm just south of the loop. In 25-30 min I can be anywhere in the city.

Now, buying and setting up roots here is a completely different story. But if you just want to stack some cash for a couple years and experience one of the greatest cities in the world, you can easily do it on the cheap if you try hard enough.

[puckerman]

(05-29-2016 08:52 AM)Monty_Brogan Wrote:  

I pay $765 for a 1 bed apt. and I'm just south of the loop. In 25-30 min I can be anywhere in the city.

You'll have a hell of a time finding a place that cheap in Austin right now. Even though Chicago is a big city, you don't have the Californization problem.

It's not just about the fact that people are moving to your city. It's who is moving to your city. In the case of Chicago, it's probably just a lot of people who are moving out of small towns in the Midwest.

[Monty_Brogan]

(05-29-2016 09:35 AM)puckerman Wrote:  

In the case of Chicago, it's probably just a lot of people who are moving out of small towns in the Midwest.

Not quite. Not in this day and age.

I work in construction and the number of high rises going up is mind-boggling -there are permits for 15+ tower cranes this year. Everywhere you look there's something going up and people are coming in from all over.

Chinese developers are breaking ground on a 90 story building on the river. Starting price: 1 mil. This isn't people moving from Podunk, IN. There is serious money coming into the city.

[nmmoooreland20]

Came in to post Chicago, hah.

[stefpdt]

I think Houston is cheaper to live in than Chicago, although it's smaller and arguably even more thugged out (might be a stretch). You get warm weather there though, plus a semi-quick drive to New Orleans whenever you want. I don't do cold weather so I recommend the southern U.S. when it comes to cheap and comfortable living.

[Oilrig]

Houston you can find cheap apts anywhere in the city. I lived there for the past 8 years and never spent more than $800 a month in rent and I lived in good areas near the hot spots. The last apt I rented was a studio apt near the galleria area for $600 a month. There's cheap living in any city but you have to put in the work to find the deals.

[jbkunt2]

Chicago is excellent value though.

It is way, way cheaper than most of the coasts.

I love Chicago.

[jbkunt2]

Just move to Pilsen/Roger's Park/Uptown. They will be as cheap as most places in any decent sized city. Fairly cool these days too.