With regards to your physical escalation problem, I found this ebook linked on the forum a while ago, it's a really interesting read:
http://www.vindicarlo.com/DiCarlo%20Esca...lo.com.pdf
http://www.vindicarlo.com/DiCarlo%20Esca...lo.com.pdf
Why Hasn't Game Worked?
Start squatting and quit jerking off.
The good child routine
Having thought some more about Daniel Greenman's story and its relation to Elliot Rodger's story and there is a basic similarity. They are both all out analysis's of their entire life from birth till now and both have a sense of rage that they haven't been with women although in ER's case it is more extreme.
Both are what I am going to call the "Good child routine". In the good child routine, the person goes around being a 'good child' and then getting more and more upset that they are not being rewarded for their good behavior. Rather than viewing a relationship as a transaction it is regarded as a reward. In this case a reward for being good at approaching or good at 'game'. But no girl is going to have sex with someone unless she is sexually attracted to them.
Let's imagine you get a highly intelligent 10-12 year old prepubescent child and you teach them game. How many woman are they going to get with that after 3000 approaches? Well you could expect them to get none. It would just be a weird creepy experience for women.
What if you now put the brain of that child into the body of an adult male and they do approaches. How many women are they going to get now? Probably not many even if they are suddenly able to be sexually attracted to women.
The point is that unless you have the emotional output of an adult male, all the game in the world isn't going to help you.
But how can this be?
My understanding of what I am going to refer to as the psycho-sexual environment is that persons will adopt a 'stance' whereby they produce behaviors of one or more typical participants in the environment and other persons are hardwired to respond appropriately to these behaviors depending on what they are.
It is my contention that males will typically produce male behaviors, females will produce female behaviors and children will produce childlike behaviors.
If only it were that simple then there would be no problem, but in order for society to actually exist people have needed to adopt behavioral traits at odds with their apparent biological and developmental identity.
In the case of what people call heterosexually it involves a mix of male, female and child traits and attractions regardless of whether it is a male of female 'heterosexual'.
The particular mix changes over time and the mix that people automatically use is going to dictate their success in their work and social life.
I've been not wanting to make this information public as I don't know what kind of effect conscious knowledge of it could have on society. However the Elliot Rodger thing has really tipped me over the edge to mentioning it.
In the case of Greenman it seems clear to me that he is functioning with a mixture of female and juvenile traits but probably more towards the juvenile, as I believe that even if he had many female traits (what people typically call 'gay') then he would be able to get with at least a small percentage of the women he has approached. If he had a primarily juvenile stance then he would be untouchable to all but a tiny minority of women.
Daniel says:
and
Absolutely right. The basic problem here is that because males are primarily physical the feeling of being in his body is the feeling of being male and he doesn't like being male, he wants to exist in a female/childlike intellectual space. I suppose many people in this situation would actually be asexual but Greenman has the basic sexual desire of a male but does not exist mentally and emotionally as a male.
E.G:
Another illustrative example comes later in the post:
Great piece of writing because it shows many things. First of all it shows what the feelings of every girl that Greenman talks to must be like i.e. "dude, leave me alone".
Secondly the guy was 'pan sexual' which means he would fuck anything, (even Greenman) so he wasn't bothered by his typically unattractive sexual stance.
Thirdly the somewhat mad conversation, which although it makes sense at one level it's utterly absurd to think that people make the choice of who they have sex with at a purely rational level. If they did then Greenman would have no problem.
Thirdly I am glad he got the irony of being desperately out there to get sex in any shape or form and rejecting the advances of someone who was also out for sex in any shape or form. (Although sex in a different way).
Now with the girl he was after she said she was pansexual, but in actual fact her real sexual identity was likely bisexual meaning that if Greenman was projecting an overwhelmingly juvenile stance she wouldn't be interested. The reason for this is that women in general have absolutely no reason for sex with someone projecting a juvenile stance. There may be a small number of women that will, but it will be tiny.
So Greenman has two options:
1) Compete to find a woman who is effectively a pedophile mentally speaking. (Rare, but possible now there is the internet)
2) Become a Man
For Greenman it seems like number two would be the obvious choice, however there is a downside. By moving into his body and becoming male, the being he is now will cease to exist. The mental space he currently occupies will be vacated and his core personality and sense of self will be radically altered. I know, I've been through it.
In order to get an example of what this process means for a person you can look at the following video.
http://www.advocate.com/politics/transge...-i-used-be
So Greenman I'm sure that's not what you want to hear but at least you don't have to do any surgeries and lose your reproductive potential :-)
BTW this is my current 'diagnosis' but I would have to see video of Greenman to confirm it.
Having thought some more about Daniel Greenman's story and its relation to Elliot Rodger's story and there is a basic similarity. They are both all out analysis's of their entire life from birth till now and both have a sense of rage that they haven't been with women although in ER's case it is more extreme.
Both are what I am going to call the "Good child routine". In the good child routine, the person goes around being a 'good child' and then getting more and more upset that they are not being rewarded for their good behavior. Rather than viewing a relationship as a transaction it is regarded as a reward. In this case a reward for being good at approaching or good at 'game'. But no girl is going to have sex with someone unless she is sexually attracted to them.
Let's imagine you get a highly intelligent 10-12 year old prepubescent child and you teach them game. How many woman are they going to get with that after 3000 approaches? Well you could expect them to get none. It would just be a weird creepy experience for women.
What if you now put the brain of that child into the body of an adult male and they do approaches. How many women are they going to get now? Probably not many even if they are suddenly able to be sexually attracted to women.
The point is that unless you have the emotional output of an adult male, all the game in the world isn't going to help you.
But how can this be?
My understanding of what I am going to refer to as the psycho-sexual environment is that persons will adopt a 'stance' whereby they produce behaviors of one or more typical participants in the environment and other persons are hardwired to respond appropriately to these behaviors depending on what they are.
It is my contention that males will typically produce male behaviors, females will produce female behaviors and children will produce childlike behaviors.
If only it were that simple then there would be no problem, but in order for society to actually exist people have needed to adopt behavioral traits at odds with their apparent biological and developmental identity.
In the case of what people call heterosexually it involves a mix of male, female and child traits and attractions regardless of whether it is a male of female 'heterosexual'.
The particular mix changes over time and the mix that people automatically use is going to dictate their success in their work and social life.
I've been not wanting to make this information public as I don't know what kind of effect conscious knowledge of it could have on society. However the Elliot Rodger thing has really tipped me over the edge to mentioning it.
In the case of Greenman it seems clear to me that he is functioning with a mixture of female and juvenile traits but probably more towards the juvenile, as I believe that even if he had many female traits (what people typically call 'gay') then he would be able to get with at least a small percentage of the women he has approached. If he had a primarily juvenile stance then he would be untouchable to all but a tiny minority of women.
Daniel says:
Quote:Quote:
"…whenever I'm purely "out of my head" and "in my body", it's the most uncomfortable feeling. It fucking SUCKS to be in my body. I don't know where this issue came from."
and
Quote:Quote:
"something about being physical unleashes this torrent of negative... emotion? I don't know what it is. But whatever it is, it shuts down everything. I suspect that this is intricately related to my issues with getting physical with women."
Absolutely right. The basic problem here is that because males are primarily physical the feeling of being in his body is the feeling of being male and he doesn't like being male, he wants to exist in a female/childlike intellectual space. I suppose many people in this situation would actually be asexual but Greenman has the basic sexual desire of a male but does not exist mentally and emotionally as a male.
E.G:
Quote:Quote:
"Often times I’ll read men’s fashion websites or magazines if I see one laying around. And I can’t understand what’s in it – to me it’s like reading an alien language."
Another illustrative example comes later in the post:
Quote:Quote:
While I was walking with the group, one of the guys started talking to me, and I sorta got the feeling he was either gay or bi or something, and interested in me. I found out that the whole group, Sally included, identified as "pansexual". I asked them what exactly that means, and we got into a discussion about it. Unfortunately, Sally drifted off with two of her friends, and got into seperate conversations with them, while I was sorta "trapped" in conversation with the dude. I didn't want to just be like "dude, leave me alone" and then go over to Sally again, because they were all part of the same group - it wasn't like he was just a random guy out of nowhere. The discussion became interesting though, because I told him that I view the whole "gender identity" thing as a religion, one which I'm reluctant to believe in. I did tell him that I think it's perfectly natural for people of the same sex to love one another - it's called "friendship", and it's been around since the beginning of time, and it doesn't mean that there's something fundamentally different about that person's sexuality. Everyone is naturally wired to *mate*, and mating is an exclusively opposite-sex phenomenon (two men can't *mate*, no matter how much they love eacother and no matter how many federal court rulings say they can), and the mating drive is the source of sexuality - so it just doesn't make sense for people of the same gender to try to have sex with eachother. I could tell that this line of thinking was new to him, and he had never pondered it before. Surprisingly, he seemed pretty open-minded to my ideas, and thanked me for sharing, and seemed willing to consider the concept of heterosexuality - and the irony of that was not lost on me, although perhaps it was on him.
Great piece of writing because it shows many things. First of all it shows what the feelings of every girl that Greenman talks to must be like i.e. "dude, leave me alone".
Secondly the guy was 'pan sexual' which means he would fuck anything, (even Greenman) so he wasn't bothered by his typically unattractive sexual stance.
Thirdly the somewhat mad conversation, which although it makes sense at one level it's utterly absurd to think that people make the choice of who they have sex with at a purely rational level. If they did then Greenman would have no problem.
Thirdly I am glad he got the irony of being desperately out there to get sex in any shape or form and rejecting the advances of someone who was also out for sex in any shape or form. (Although sex in a different way).
Now with the girl he was after she said she was pansexual, but in actual fact her real sexual identity was likely bisexual meaning that if Greenman was projecting an overwhelmingly juvenile stance she wouldn't be interested. The reason for this is that women in general have absolutely no reason for sex with someone projecting a juvenile stance. There may be a small number of women that will, but it will be tiny.
So Greenman has two options:
1) Compete to find a woman who is effectively a pedophile mentally speaking. (Rare, but possible now there is the internet)
2) Become a Man
For Greenman it seems like number two would be the obvious choice, however there is a downside. By moving into his body and becoming male, the being he is now will cease to exist. The mental space he currently occupies will be vacated and his core personality and sense of self will be radically altered. I know, I've been through it.
In order to get an example of what this process means for a person you can look at the following video.
http://www.advocate.com/politics/transge...-i-used-be
So Greenman I'm sure that's not what you want to hear but at least you don't have to do any surgeries and lose your reproductive potential :-)
BTW this is my current 'diagnosis' but I would have to see video of Greenman to confirm it.
jtteop:
I met him and I sensed absolutely no anger, hatred, negatively, or hostility. This isn't an Elliot Rodger situation. It's just a guy who needs some work.
I met him and I sensed absolutely no anger, hatred, negatively, or hostility. This isn't an Elliot Rodger situation. It's just a guy who needs some work.
Quote: (06-10-2014 07:39 PM)Merenguero Wrote:
jtteop:
I met him and I sensed absolutely no anger, hatred, negatively, or hostility. This isn't an Elliot Rodger situation. It's just a guy who needs some work.
What can we do to help this guy? Let's put together a comprehensive plan.
Take care of those titties for me.
Quote: (06-10-2014 07:47 PM)Dusty Wrote:
Quote: (06-10-2014 07:39 PM)Merenguero Wrote:
jtteop:
I met him and I sensed absolutely no anger, hatred, negatively, or hostility. This isn't an Elliot Rodger situation. It's just a guy who needs some work.
What can we do to help this guy? Let's put together a comprehensive plan.
He has been in touch with Giovonny, El Mech has offered to help him with his OKCupid profile, and McQueen offered to coach him for free if he goes out to Los Angeles. I think that's a pretty good start.
OP: You have a huge self-defeatist attitude and inability to recognise anything good within yourself and your experience, and I'd venture that it is this self-loathing and negativity that is turning girls away. If you don't love yourself, how can you expect a woman to want to love you?
You live within your own head, overthinking, overanalysing, and it is poisoning everything. Can you look at yourself and list your positives, instead of thinking purely in negatives? Over and over again, you're down on yourself whilst listing interesting experiences and achievements. I'm curious: if a girl compliments you, how do you react? Do you think you sound charmingly-self-deprecating to her, or self-loathing?
I knew a guy like you in my teen years, always down on himself and complaining about not having a girlfriend. He wasn't bad looking. He was tall. I got him a hooker for his 18th birthday because I was sick of hearing his shit, and she said he was hung like John Holmes. Yet, the dude still couldn't make anything happen for himself because his negative attitude was toxic to any social environment.
The girls in my group nicknamed him 'Morrissey', after the Smiths singer, another guy who lives too much in his own head and makes everything overdramatic.
I don't think pure sexual-inexperience can do this alone. Are their issues in your past or with your family that make you feel valueless to others? 'Morrissey' was abandoned by his father, and lived with a vicious shrew of a mother.
In all seriousness: cognitive behaviour therapy. You can learn how your own thinking is leading you into spirals of defeat, and how to be aware of it and counteract it. You need to work with a therapist in the real world to fix your mindset first, because this is the red flag that has consistently-popped up in every post. There is no shame in this. It's part of the journey to making yourself a better man, because, as you say, what you have been doing isn't working.
Shit, I know a guy who had a stroke in his early 20's, with paralysed legs, but is always in my gym, training. Dude's in a chair, and can pull women because he's the most positive bastard you'll ever meet, that let's nothing hold him back. Celebrate your advantages over others instead of concentrating on what you lack.
I also suspect you're also over-romanticising what girls can realistically offer you, particularly in a relationship. Stop assuming every couple is happy. You're not seeing the full picture, including the times they're screaming at each other like banshees, or she's playing passive-aggressive games for attention. You have to accept the reality of women is going to be complicated and full of both good aspects and bad. It's not going to be a fairy story.
You live within your own head, overthinking, overanalysing, and it is poisoning everything. Can you look at yourself and list your positives, instead of thinking purely in negatives? Over and over again, you're down on yourself whilst listing interesting experiences and achievements. I'm curious: if a girl compliments you, how do you react? Do you think you sound charmingly-self-deprecating to her, or self-loathing?
I knew a guy like you in my teen years, always down on himself and complaining about not having a girlfriend. He wasn't bad looking. He was tall. I got him a hooker for his 18th birthday because I was sick of hearing his shit, and she said he was hung like John Holmes. Yet, the dude still couldn't make anything happen for himself because his negative attitude was toxic to any social environment.
The girls in my group nicknamed him 'Morrissey', after the Smiths singer, another guy who lives too much in his own head and makes everything overdramatic.
I don't think pure sexual-inexperience can do this alone. Are their issues in your past or with your family that make you feel valueless to others? 'Morrissey' was abandoned by his father, and lived with a vicious shrew of a mother.
In all seriousness: cognitive behaviour therapy. You can learn how your own thinking is leading you into spirals of defeat, and how to be aware of it and counteract it. You need to work with a therapist in the real world to fix your mindset first, because this is the red flag that has consistently-popped up in every post. There is no shame in this. It's part of the journey to making yourself a better man, because, as you say, what you have been doing isn't working.
Shit, I know a guy who had a stroke in his early 20's, with paralysed legs, but is always in my gym, training. Dude's in a chair, and can pull women because he's the most positive bastard you'll ever meet, that let's nothing hold him back. Celebrate your advantages over others instead of concentrating on what you lack.
I also suspect you're also over-romanticising what girls can realistically offer you, particularly in a relationship. Stop assuming every couple is happy. You're not seeing the full picture, including the times they're screaming at each other like banshees, or she's playing passive-aggressive games for attention. You have to accept the reality of women is going to be complicated and full of both good aspects and bad. It's not going to be a fairy story.
Quote: (06-10-2014 07:39 PM)Merenguero Wrote:
jtteop:
I met him and I sensed absolutely no anger, hatred, negatively, or hostility. This isn't an Elliot Rodger situation. It's just a guy who needs some work.
Yes I believe that he is basically psychologically OK. It was the OP himself that raised the Elliot Rodger comparison:
Quote:Quote:
When I heard about Elliot Rodger, something in me changed. Things are serious now. I can see myself turning into him eventually, if this problem isn't solved. I've read the first 90 pages of the manifesto, and it's like reading my own autobiography. The way he describes the utter hopelessness he feels, and the jealousy, it was like hearing my own story told back to me.
As well as appearing to be extremely angry when he wrote:
Quote:Quote:
FUCK, I JUST WANT TO FUCKING GET LAID AND I CAN'T TAKE THIS SHIT ANYMORE WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON WHY THE FUCK AM I IN INDIA WHAT AM I DOING AND WHERE ARE THE FUCKING GIRLS AT AND WHY CANT I FUCKING GET A GIRLFRIEND OR EVEN A FEMALE FRIEND OR A FRIEND OF ANY FUCKING KIND, WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But that may all have been for dramatic effect...
Quote: (06-10-2014 11:15 PM)jtteop Wrote:
But that may all have been for dramatic effect...
Are you sure you're not the one going for that effect?
OP has been vouched by some reputable members on the forum already.
He acknowledged he needs help; he's asking for it and maybe even willing to accept it.
So I'd give it a rest if I were you especially if you would like to be a serious part of this community.
Quote: (06-10-2014 12:25 PM)Giovonny Wrote:
I Skyped with him last night.
I was expecting to see an ugly, socially awkward man.
I was wrong!
This guy is average to above average looking, fun to talk to, and socially aware.
He just doesn't have much sexual experience.
He is a smart guy.
But, he is uneducated sexually.
He needs to learn the art of sex.
We talked about some strategies to help him learn the art of sex.
It can't really be learned over the internet, it can't really be learned by talking about it.
It has to be experienced physically.
He needs a sex coach-girlfriend-lover-intimate companion who can instruct him.
A woman who can guide him through this process.
We talked about how to find such a woman.
Sex therapists, sex workers, sex coaches, etc.
I'm sure there are many women who would be willing to help this guy learn sex.
The hardest part will be finding a good teacher who is sincere.
I would go somewhere where prostitution is legal.
I would be honest about my issue.
I would get help. Sexual help.
That is what this man needs.
Sexual experience.
I recommended that he go to SEA and get a few girlfriends.
*****
This guy proves that "approaching girls" is only one small part of the sexual process.
After the approach, there is still conversation, maintaining conversation, texting/calling, more conversation, dating, escalating, closing, sex, etc.
There are many aspects to this process of getting sex.
We must be work on all of these aspects.
*****
I get the sense that he can be more aggressive.
I get the sense that he can upgrade his fashion and style.
I get the sense that he can put himself into a better "fishbowl'.
Well, again I want to reiterate my mea culpa for calling this out as a troll. I'm sorry this is real, though. It's not that hard, really.
I would second the motion of going to a hooker. The reason for that is because when you start getting up around 30, it's difficult to develop new habits. For some, the habits include exercise or a new job skill. In this case it's learning how to touch and be touched. So I think learning by *doing* is the solution here.
My recommendation: go to a massage parlor that's unlikely to get busted. Or even go to a legit (non-sexual) masseuse and tell her what's up. Don't go looking for escorts on Craigslist or wherever because police in Baltimore do stings.
If you want to get in touch, message me. I know a legit masseuse in the region (Anne Arundel County) I can direct you to -- a nice-looking older woman who will not only touch but listen and explain (again I want to stress this is non-sexual but massages still feel good from attractive women). Either this or hire a sex surrogate, but I have no idea how to do the latter.
Beyond all that, maybe someone can tell this fortysomething guy what the hell has changed in society that we have younger guys like this. Or is this an outlier case?
Good luck, and sorry again for calling troll on this one.
OP isn't a troll I added him to my personal skype and he had his real name up as well so he's the real deal not some puahate jerk off. As I told you over PM send me a call I'll be more than happy to help.
"Until the day when God shall deign to reveal the future to man, all human wisdom is summed up in these two words,— 'Wait and hope'."- Alexander Dumas, "The Count of Monte Cristo"
Fashion/Style Lounge
Social Circle Game
Team Skinny Girls with Pretty Faces
King of Sockpuppets
Sockpuppet List
Quote: (06-10-2014 11:54 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:
Beyond all that, maybe someone can tell this fortysomething guy what the hell has changed in society that we have younger guys like this. Or is this an outlier case?
Good luck, and sorry again for calling troll on this one.
I think for one, Gen Y / Millenials were the first generation of boys to spend much time playing indoors even in summer as kids and not forced or shamed to go out. Video games, TV, the internet etc.... I think it created a ton of insular personalities growing up.
Second again the 20 / 80 rule is in full effect. Through internet instant messaging as early as junior high school age and beyond back in the mid to late 1990s, girls could attention whore from the 80% and only get dick from the 20% at a high force even before smart phones.
It is a snow ball effect only made worse by increasing discreet communication technology, if you don't get ahead of it will keep rolling over you and building as a guy that doesn't "get it".
SENS Foundation - help stop age-related diseases
Quote: (05-19-2016 12:01 PM)Giovonny Wrote:
If I talk to 100 19 year old girls, at least one of them is getting fucked!
Quote:WestIndianArchie Wrote:
Am I reacting to her? No pussy, all problems
Or
Is she reacting to me? All pussy, no problems
The original poster proves one thing beyond all doubt--David DeAngelo is worthless. The main problem is that he makes general, abstract observations that are true; but are basically useless. To learn to do anything well, the student needs specific advice geared to specific situations. DeAngelo says: "Women are attracted to men who are attractive." That's true, but how does that help the student?
Study Ross Jeffries. He's the best out there. Go to http://www.seduction.com.
There are different skill levels, and I'll just use the ones we got in school--A, B, C, D, F. The original poster is an F student right now. Going from F to C is different than going from C to A. It requires different teaching and different instruction. A lot of pick-up gurus are very good in teaching you to go from C to B or A. They're not so good for F students.
It takes work, but you can do it. Also, read Mystery and Neil Strauss.
Study Ross Jeffries. He's the best out there. Go to http://www.seduction.com.
There are different skill levels, and I'll just use the ones we got in school--A, B, C, D, F. The original poster is an F student right now. Going from F to C is different than going from C to A. It requires different teaching and different instruction. A lot of pick-up gurus are very good in teaching you to go from C to B or A. They're not so good for F students.
It takes work, but you can do it. Also, read Mystery and Neil Strauss.
Quote: (06-14-2014 09:25 PM)puckerman Wrote:
The original poster proves one thing beyond all doubt--David DeAngelo is worthless. The main problem is that he makes general, abstract observations that are true; but are basically useless. To learn to do anything well, the student needs specific advice geared to specific situations. DeAngelo says: "Women are attracted to men who are attractive." That's true, but how does that help the student?
Study Ross Jeffries. He's the best out there. Go to http://www.seduction.com.
There are different skill levels, and I'll just use the ones we got in school--A, B, C, D, F. The original poster is an F student right now. Going from F to C is different than going from C to A. It requires different teaching and different instruction. A lot of pick-up gurus are very good in teaching you to go from C to B or A. They're not so good for F students.
It takes work, but you can do it. Also, read Mystery and Neil Strauss.
As someone who used David Deangelos products extensively before running into this site, I can tell you he is great with everything EXCEPT stressing escalating. He stresses more of the technique to get the girl to like you rather than to close and seal the deal, which are equally important. I didn't really start to convert interest into bangs until I started reading Roosh, who does a great job of making it a priority to push the envelope lest you kill attraction in the woman (I should know I had a similar problem to the OP for awhile.)
During one of David Ds seminars, an audience member asked what he needed to do to get the girl to cone home with him in order to get 'laid'. David did not seem to pleased with the question, saying that 'I mainly deal with the attraction part of that equation'. He appeals to the GQ, $30 martini, velvet rope crowd so he feels the need to be 'classy' when in reality you need to have a dirty side to get the results you need with women.
This is bloody fantastic. Well done gents.
Apologies for inferring troll at the start of the thread.
Apologies for inferring troll at the start of the thread.
They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety- Benjamin Franklin, as if you didn't know...
"I put in the work, and I took the risks."
Did you put in the work in the gym? I haven't read the whole post, but I read a lot of talk about studying and approaching, and not a lot of self improvement. BEING the kind of guy a woman wants is as important as approaching.
Did you put in the work in the gym? I haven't read the whole post, but I read a lot of talk about studying and approaching, and not a lot of self improvement. BEING the kind of guy a woman wants is as important as approaching.
Quote: (06-16-2014 11:21 AM)MdWanderer Wrote:
During one of David Ds seminars, an audience member asked what he needed to do to get the girl to cone home with him in order to get 'laid'. David did not seem to pleased with the question, saying that 'I mainly deal with the attraction part of that equation'. He appeals to the GQ, $30 martini, velvet rope crowd so he feels the need to be 'classy' when in reality you need to have a dirty side to get the results you need with women.
Your comment were right on. My guess is that he's just trying to appeal to the people who have the most money to spend on seminars. It says a lot about his integrity.
Excellent thread, mainly due to the opportunities being offered to this young man.
It is as if women have a sixth sense about a man's sexual capabilities.
You should have lowered your standards with the middle aged yoga women. It would have generated a sexual vibe within you if you had banged a couple of them. It would have also generated some abundance mentality for you too.
I also think you should ditch online dating. It's stagnant.
Just my 2 cents.
Quote: (06-05-2014 01:33 PM)thegreenman Wrote:This is his biggest obstacle in my opinion, and Gio has mentioned it also.
I have alpha body language. I know how to walk into a room and command respect from everybody in it. But my vibe doesnt come across as SEXUAL. It's confident, dominant, it says "I'm cool,and I don't give a fuck about anyones approval." It says "I'm different from every other guy you've ever met." But it isn't sexual. I have no idea how to be sexual, at least not in a public social situation. I know how to jerk off to porn, though.
And so, because of this, whenever I begin touching a girl, it takes her by surprise. She wasn't expecting it. There was no sexual vibe beforehand, so she's probably thinking "WHY?" "Why is he touching me now? What's he trying to do?". Almost always, she begins looking for excuses to extricate herself from the conversation.
So thats where I get hung up. Sexual vibe, and initiating physical contact.
It is as if women have a sixth sense about a man's sexual capabilities.
You should have lowered your standards with the middle aged yoga women. It would have generated a sexual vibe within you if you had banged a couple of them. It would have also generated some abundance mentality for you too.
I also think you should ditch online dating. It's stagnant.
Just my 2 cents.
Quote: (06-17-2014 03:56 AM)puckerman Wrote:
Quote: (06-16-2014 11:21 AM)MdWanderer Wrote:
During one of David Ds seminars, an audience member asked what he needed to do to get the girl to cone home with him in order to get 'laid'. David did not seem to pleased with the question, saying that 'I mainly deal with the attraction part of that equation'. He appeals to the GQ, $30 martini, velvet rope crowd so he feels the need to be 'classy' when in reality you need to have a dirty side to get the results you need with women.
Your comment were right on. My guess is that he's just trying to appeal to the people who have the most money to spend on seminars. It says a lot about his integrity.
Yeah true...but I do think a lot of his stuff is still good. David D did help pull me out of my omega/anti - game days in the early part of my college years. He is good at basically starting a young player from scratch and teaching him how not to be an anti-social weirdo. But all that cocky-funny, push and pull stuff won't mean a hill of beans if you can muster the courage to get sexual with her...less than 1% of women will do it for you.
Quote: (06-09-2014 01:30 PM)thegreenman Wrote:
Update for 6/9:
JWLZG:
Yes, the headspace of "I need a woman right now" has definitely been ruling my life for the last 10+ years. I'm well aware of the negative consequences of being so needy - I've read my fill of game gurus saying neediness kills attraction. I get that. But I don't know what to DO about it.
.....EDIT
When I texted her the next day, I got a "who's this?" response. She was lukewarm (actually scratch that, lukecold), and displayed no interest in putting in even 0.00001% effort to be with me. So after all is said and done, I conclude that she's not into me, and I shouldn't waste my time thinking about her anymore.
That's how it goes with most girls. They're having a good time when I'm there (or at least that's how it seems), smiling, giggling... but don't put in one DROP of effort to be with me, or to let me know that they're interested. It's like two people riding a multi-person bicycle - I'm doing ALL of the peddling, and the girl is just sitting there riding along. No matter how far we go, she won't peddle, and the moment I stop peddling, the bike stops. She does NOTHING. And when the bike does stop, she gets off and says "well it was nice meeting you!"
"That's how it goes with most girls. They're having a good time when I'm there (or at least that's how it seems), smiling, giggling... but don't put in one DROP of effort to be with me, or to let me know that they're interested."
You can be good-looking, smart, rich, etc., but if you're not putting out any masculine energy, you won't "register" with women. All of this sounds like you're doing well, but your way with words and lack of ability to escalate tell me you're good at communicating but not doing. Communicating = a women's skill. Getting the job done = masculine. Learn to do, not say.
I wonder how many guys of your generation were raised in a more gender neutral way than Gen X-ers and, as such, don't come across as more masculine. This doesn't mean "macho" but means being definitive and taking action. Even affected, effeminate gay men can be more masculine than bland straight guys in some ways because they're sending out a vibe.
The other day I was talking to a woman my age who just came from the dentist. She told me she needed to get an Oral B toothbrush. I said "You can tell we're getting old -- ten years ago we'd have been talking about oral sex...now it's Oral B."
This really made her laugh and the convo immediately changed its tone. And...she got touchy with me. What I DIDN'T do was start engaging her seriously about whatever the hell her tooth problem was. Instead I took the risk of offending her -- it engaged her emotions, not her intellect, and I started to register with her.*
It's about putting out a certain energy. Hard to define, but you know it when you see it. I'll repeat what I mentioned earlier on in that I think you're too inside your head. You can't make such comments if the other 99 percent of your convo is intellectual. But if women don't seem to care when you meet them, I'd advise spicing up the convo somehow and sexual innuendo, when done right, is usually the ticket.
You can also draw them into some drama ("I'm bummed about my little sister!") because women love a soap opera. But unless you already have some Alpha frame, that puts you at risk of getting friend-zoned.
I knew guys like you in college who eventually broke through with women. Keep trying and you're bound to hit paydirt.
* Regarding this, I've noticed women don't have the curiosity men have and I sometimes get the feeling they go through life with blinders on. If they don't notice you, well, you can be secure in the fact that they're not noticing a lot of other things too. This was a constant source of irritation between me and my ex-wife, who would be completely oblivious to everything from impending hurricanes to teenage gangstas staying with their grandmother a few doors down.
Gold right here. I have a date tonight with a girl who is very interested but still doesn't know my age, what i do or any other meaningfull detail of my life. Simply because she didn't ask. Yes I'm stunned too...
I've had girls ask for my age/last name/where i'm from after the bang....
I've had girls ask for my age/last name/where i'm from after the bang....
Quote: (06-18-2014 12:18 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:
* Regarding this, I've noticed women don't have the curiosity men have and I sometimes get the feeling they go through life with blinders on. If they don't notice you, well, you can be secure in the fact that they're not noticing a lot of other things too. This was a constant source of irritation between me and my ex-wife, who would be completely oblivious to everything from impending hurricanes to teenage gangstas staying with their grandmother a few doors down.
This could end up like the RVF version of Clueless…creating the greatest game monster the world has ever known!!
I hope so…this dude's an idiot if he doesn't commit 100% given the calibre of people trying to help him.
I hope so…this dude's an idiot if he doesn't commit 100% given the calibre of people trying to help him.
Well it's been a week or so, and I just came back to read all this new stuff. I'd like to say again how much I appreciate each and every one of you who's written something. It's good advice here, and it's really encouraging to know that ya'll got my back.
Here's the situation now...
I've been spending the last couple weeks focusing on getting a job in Asia. I figure I need a whole new setup, a whole new lifestyle, a whole new... civilization. I'm gonna start from scratch.
And I've gotten multiple job offers from schools in China. I picked one really awesome-looking town in the mountains, which happens to be an international tourist destination, and it looks like a 95% chance I'm going to take that position. I'm calling up the embassy on Monday to get a visa. I anticipate arriving there in about 3 weeks.
![[Image: banana.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/banana.gif)
Although I've never had "yellow fever", there are some great pluses about Chinese girls (and almost all Asians).
#1 They're short. This opens up about 3-4x more of the female population as potential partners for me.
#2 They seem to be traditional in their approach to dating/love/sex, and I could see one of them treating me very, very well
#3 I automatically have my foot in the door because I'm white and American. It's an instant conversation starter
I'm sure there are many more that have been discussed on this forum extensively. I can hear some of you saying that I should have gone to Thailand because that's just "where ya go" if you're a virgin who needs a crash course on sex, but there are various lifestyle reasons why I think I'd prefer China (including the salary - it's waaaay higher).
I am extremely confident that I'll have an abundance of opportunities to get closer to girls. I recognize that it's still not going to be done "for me", and that I'll still have to put in work in self-improvement and approaching. But I just feel like the odds will no longer be stacked so high against me. I get the sense that the par will be lowered to a level where I can actually compete, and have a fair chance.
This will be my first experience of having a financial means of supporting myself outside of the USA, and I can taste the independence already.
Feel free to share any info you have that might be relevant. I'm going to the southwest part of China, in the mountains, near the city of Kunming.
And please, no rice jokes.
Here's the situation now...
I've been spending the last couple weeks focusing on getting a job in Asia. I figure I need a whole new setup, a whole new lifestyle, a whole new... civilization. I'm gonna start from scratch.
And I've gotten multiple job offers from schools in China. I picked one really awesome-looking town in the mountains, which happens to be an international tourist destination, and it looks like a 95% chance I'm going to take that position. I'm calling up the embassy on Monday to get a visa. I anticipate arriving there in about 3 weeks.
Although I've never had "yellow fever", there are some great pluses about Chinese girls (and almost all Asians).
#1 They're short. This opens up about 3-4x more of the female population as potential partners for me.
#2 They seem to be traditional in their approach to dating/love/sex, and I could see one of them treating me very, very well
#3 I automatically have my foot in the door because I'm white and American. It's an instant conversation starter
I'm sure there are many more that have been discussed on this forum extensively. I can hear some of you saying that I should have gone to Thailand because that's just "where ya go" if you're a virgin who needs a crash course on sex, but there are various lifestyle reasons why I think I'd prefer China (including the salary - it's waaaay higher).
I am extremely confident that I'll have an abundance of opportunities to get closer to girls. I recognize that it's still not going to be done "for me", and that I'll still have to put in work in self-improvement and approaching. But I just feel like the odds will no longer be stacked so high against me. I get the sense that the par will be lowered to a level where I can actually compete, and have a fair chance.
This will be my first experience of having a financial means of supporting myself outside of the USA, and I can taste the independence already.
Feel free to share any info you have that might be relevant. I'm going to the southwest part of China, in the mountains, near the city of Kunming.
And please, no rice jokes.
^^^^^^
Not a bad idea. You're thinking along the lines of taking action which is good.
But I think on some level you can't run from problems. If you find you can't escalate with white women, well, when you get around Asian women, they'll become the white women.
I also take some issue with the self-improvement thing. I constantly see fat slobs with girlfriends as well as brainless 17-year-old guys with totally hot high school girls.
Once again, I think you simply have to learn how to get from talking to doing. Maybe a few sessions with a good masseuse will put any reticence about that behind you or maybe you need to go to a rock festival, get stoned, and cuddle with some hippie chick. Or find a really forward woman.
Also one more thing:
"#1 They're short. This opens up about 3-4x more of the female population as potential partners for me."
No matter how tall you are, I'm probably shorter. Virtually every woman I ever dated was taller. The woman I'm seeing now is taller. Hell, my ex-wife was taller. No matter what people say, this is not a life-ending drawback. It's not even something to be "overcome" with game because some women simply think short guys are cute (or, for some short guys, cuteness transcends height). But if you can't escalate, none of this matters.
Not a bad idea. You're thinking along the lines of taking action which is good.
But I think on some level you can't run from problems. If you find you can't escalate with white women, well, when you get around Asian women, they'll become the white women.
I also take some issue with the self-improvement thing. I constantly see fat slobs with girlfriends as well as brainless 17-year-old guys with totally hot high school girls.
Once again, I think you simply have to learn how to get from talking to doing. Maybe a few sessions with a good masseuse will put any reticence about that behind you or maybe you need to go to a rock festival, get stoned, and cuddle with some hippie chick. Or find a really forward woman.
Also one more thing:
"#1 They're short. This opens up about 3-4x more of the female population as potential partners for me."
No matter how tall you are, I'm probably shorter. Virtually every woman I ever dated was taller. The woman I'm seeing now is taller. Hell, my ex-wife was taller. No matter what people say, this is not a life-ending drawback. It's not even something to be "overcome" with game because some women simply think short guys are cute (or, for some short guys, cuteness transcends height). But if you can't escalate, none of this matters.
Good idea with Asia.
But I agree with @Broken Arrows here - you can't run away from it.
You might consider at least Christian McQueen's offer and get your ass to LA/Vegas for a week. He might give you enough pointers to work on for the future - plus it might be fun and a good experience for you.
You probably won't have such a problem finding a gilfriend or wife - they are way more traditional in dating especially in the smaller cities (2 mio.). On the other hand Chinese women are notoriously strong within marriages, so you definitely need some good relationship-game to keep up the frame there.
But hey - sounds good - good luck! I plan to move to Asia myself sooner or later for different reasons, so I can understand your decision.
But I agree with @Broken Arrows here - you can't run away from it.
You might consider at least Christian McQueen's offer and get your ass to LA/Vegas for a week. He might give you enough pointers to work on for the future - plus it might be fun and a good experience for you.
You probably won't have such a problem finding a gilfriend or wife - they are way more traditional in dating especially in the smaller cities (2 mio.). On the other hand Chinese women are notoriously strong within marriages, so you definitely need some good relationship-game to keep up the frame there.
But hey - sounds good - good luck! I plan to move to Asia myself sooner or later for different reasons, so I can understand your decision.
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