[RockHard]

Wow.

This is going to be scattershot. You've got to have some serious negative energy going on. There's a lot of externalities but I can't get past the internal stuff. I was literally Costanza on your most recent posts



What the fuck did you say to this chick online that prompted her to run a sales pitch on you? And why did you put up with it for 2 hours? Conversational skills. Derail the sales pitch.

Quote:

I wish I COULD bring something to this interaction… I wish I HAD something to give to these people.

This is the attitude that's fucking you up. You're a yoga instructor, you've traveled extensively - that's just off the top of my head. Did you not do or see anything cool in these places? Becoming a yogi didn't change you at all? You don't see any value in yourself. This is exactly what DistantLight was saying. How do you change that? See some value in yourself!

Quote:

I’m pretty sure I don’t do that. I leave an impression – but it’s usually an intellectual one, a la “wow that was fascinating”, rather than a sensual one that they want to fantasize about later.

Yeah, that's exactly it. But you keep asking how you do it. Don't talk about intellectual shit, for starters. If the song you're playing ain't making 'em dance, change the tune. Really, I don't get it. You've identified a problem, but you have no idea how to change? I cannot believe you've done all this yoga and meditative discipline and you can't get a conversation onto a spiritual plane at least?

You're splitting hairs over creepy vs unusual. This is typical too smart for your own good stuff, arguing semantics. It doesn't make a difference. Creepy or unusual, it all sets off the alarm that something is off with this person. You say you have alpha body language, but you can't touch a woman without setting off the creep alarm? Then you don't have alpha body language.

Quote:

And I actually know, deep down, that I would make a wonderful friend, and an amazing boyfriend/mate/husband/fuckbuddy/whatever, if only someone would just give me a damn CHANCE.

Every "nice" guy says this. Every single one.

Quote:

But they don’t CALL me. They don’t want to HANG OUT with me, or DO anything together.

Then CALL THEM. Reach out to them. This is what people are picking up on when they say you're self-centered. What I'm reading is that you are expecting people to come to you, recognize some intrinsic value in you, without you having to do anything.

Quote:

once I GET to those stores or brand racks, I have no idea which items will look good on myself

Lord have mercy. This is what salesgirls are for, otherwise we'd all just shop online. Go in there, find something, and then ask for the girl's opinion, and then ask for more opinions. "I want to upgrade my style, what do you think would work?" Especially if you hit the store at a slow time. She's bored and getting paid shit, so if you can't get a salesgirl to try to sell you clothes when you ask her to sell you clothes, I just don't know. You don't remember opinion openers? Opinion opener + hired gun. It's like hiring a hooker only limited to conversation and female interaction. You don't even have to buy anything.

Quote:

I walk around with fucking pain all over my body... Is this normal? Am I the only one who deals with this? Is it totally unheard of?

I can kinda, almost relate, but... no. Not to that level. I've been lonely, I've been depressed, I've been despondent, I've felt like my heart hurt, I've even had a girl in my bed after a long drought and couldn't perform... but if you're experiencing physical pain, you need to consult a psychiatrist. In my uneducated medical opinion, that's a serious condition.

And now I'm full circle. You talk about a lot of externalities, but you will never find happiness unless you learn how to be happy. I don't have any particular wisdom, except that there's a zen to it. You are as happy as you decide to be. Figure out what makes you happy. If the only thing that makes you happy is fucking a 10, lots of luck. Otherwise, find something.

It's going to be baby steps, and there will be bad days, but you can change. But really, I'm serious about getting professional evaluation. That kind of all over body pain is a very bad sign, IMO.

[el mechanico]

^ Great post. I'll bet anything our guy here is insulin resistant. I cant read the entire thing at once but I scan and keep coming back so I'm in now.

Drop carbs and drink assloads of water.

We as a collective can make this work.

[Cobra]

I just realized something.

Are you approaching just to get rejected?

I'm fairly new to game (<35 approaches) and realized I escalate quickly to a number.

What I learned is that a lot of these approaches I went in to feel ballsy rather than to truly build a connection. So I approached solely to get rejected. The ones I did not do this with went a whole lot better, night or day.

This is just self analysis but maybe you could think about this before talking to the more experienced cats on the forum.

You have 3000 approaches worth of mental data! There is something that you've done consistently that you need to stop doing but that requires some deep constructive criticism of yourself from that data.

Just some thoughts. Your thread has actually helped me realize this a bit more actually.

[Travesty]

OP's defense against:

You need to be happy without women and not make them the center of your life. Which only
comes from guys getting pussy is absolutely true.

Real bad advice for a newbie imo.

Better to push your frustration towards improving and hitting on more girls than trying to find "happiness" without them first.

Also if OP really has fought this hard and follows our advice and still is struggling I would suggest saving up and getting a SEA girl for a week or two long girlfriend experience where they hang out, go on dates, have leisurely sex until his mind stops racing, then maybe do it again with a different girl until he learns to fucking relax around vagina.

[RockHard]

(06-06-2014 05:58 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

OP's defense against:

You need to be happy without women and not make them the center of your life. Which only
comes from guys getting pussy is absolutely true.

Real bad advice for a newbie imo.

Better to push your frustration towards improving and hitting on more girls than trying to find "happiness" without them first.

I see what you're saying, and I know I've felt that way, but I'm hearing this deep neediness that comes from having no other focus in life and more generally, not knowing how to relate to people.

I was going to also ask OP - how many men do you have deep friendships with? By that I mean, a guy who would loan you $100, give you a place to sleep, have your back in a tough situation, and you'd do the same for him?

[eradicator]

Wait, Op is a yoga instructor? I am doing the yoga teacher training right now, and it is helping immensely with women who do yoga. I've got 3 girls right now, yoga enthusiants that i have dates with either this weekend or the next week.

Play up the yoga angle. Go on retreats. The ratios on those yoga retreats are phenomenal. I am in disbelief that even a short bald guy can not pull other yoga women at a yoga retreat. But don't just go to meet women, go because you want to get a new experience. There are also yoga concerts, other getaways. Something is seriously off here.

[Travesty]

^^ The neediness will only get worse the longer he doesn't get laid.

Of course there is neediness if you are as old as him and put in that much work. He has to feel deeply rejected on a whole other level.

Picking up tennis or getting a kayak buddy or joining a social club won't absolve this. I really don't think looking deep inside himself and finding happy zen will either.

He will still see other couples being romantic and sexual and have to stomach it everytime.

[Christian McQueen]

If anyone truly believes you can do THREE-THOUSAND APPROACHES and not get one girl is not thinking rationally.

It's a few days after the 1st and this is epic trolling on another level.

If the OP is legit, than fly yourself to Los Angeles and put yourself up for 1 week and I'll get you laid and she won't be an escort.

You'd learn more about game in a weekend or 7 days with me then you can imagine, plus it's probably only take me an hour or two of seeing your 'approaches' to point out your specific issues and most importantly show you how to fix them.

OP the offer stands until Monday.

And don't forget this is a FREE offer, which I don't really do.

As GManifesto would say: The rest is up to you.

[Travesty]

^ If this isn't a troll this guy may be the most famous newbie ever to come to RVF.

[Bland]

I'm still not convinced that the OP is being sincere, but just in case I want to provide what help I can.

I'm not an expert, but I've been in a similar place, and I know what it took to get me out of it.

Greenman, I took the time to read your whole story and here are some red flags that stood out to me:
1. Lack of Female friends
I went through most of my life without any female friends, and I found that it's extremely hard to relate to women sexually if you are not already comfortable relating to women in a friendship. My advice is to try to become more friendly with female acquaintances who you are not attracted to. For example, you could tell a female acquaintance your style problems and ask her to go clothes shopping with you. In my experience women love to do this type of thing, and it would help you with your style issues.

2. Escalation Anxiety
You seem to have completely conquered your approach anxiety, but escalation anxiety is a similar problem that most men suffer. There's already been a lot of discussion on this topic in this thread so I won't belabor the point.

3. Reluctance to Use Alcohol
I know there are different opinions on whether alcohol should be used to help meet women, but I found it extremely helpful to calm the nerves when I first started trying to meet women. I was a teetotaler before I realized that was a major impediment to me meeting and connecting with women. Alcohol will dull your inhibitions to escalation, which seems to be one of your major sticking points. For an intellectual like you, alcohol can also help take you out of your head and bring you down to her level, which makes it easier to relate. Alcohol forces a shift of control from the prefrontal cortex to the limbic region of the brain. The limbic system is where our baser instincts such as our desire for sex reside. This shift would be useful to help you stop out-thinking yourself and escalate.

4. Not Following Your Passions
You had passions earlier in your life including politics and environmentalism, but as you got older you seemed to drop them to pursue women full-time. By your own description, you even became a yoga instructor not because you loved yoga, but because you thought it would help you meet women. Women are attracted to men who are passionate about things apart from them. I think it is vital for you to rediscover these passions. There are plenty of ways for you to do this. You seem very bright so maybe you should consider graduate school in political science or some related field.


One more word on style:
The number one thing that makes clothes look good is having the right fit. Like you, I am on the shorter side, and it can be difficult for me to find clothes that fit correctly. Like me, you may be an xsmall, and not many stores carry that size. So learning which ones do can save a lot of time. Off the top of my head stores that carry xsmall include: Express, Armani Exchange, American Eagle, and Uniqlo. Go there and, as someone above suggested, talk to the salesgirls or like I suggest above, bring a female friend.
Also, clothes look better if you are in shape. Before I started working out regularly, I didn't like how any clothes looked on me. But now that I've added some muscle, things look much better. So hit the gym!

[PapayaTapper]

OP: You would probably benefit quite a bit from reading material about NLP (neuro linguistic programming) such as Tony Robbins or similar. As others have suggested your posts convey a negative internal dialogue and you need to break that pattern (modality/frame). You seemingly have a lot of positives going for you externally. This internal negativity is an "unconscious" learned behavior and since you seem willing to put in the work you are a good candidate to learn the skills to be able to consciously change it.

[thegreenman]

Deal!

Im pm'ing you.

[Brodiaga]

(06-05-2014 11:33 AM)RXB Wrote:  

Doing 3,000 approaches means nothing if you're saying garbage. If you walked up to 3,000 girls and said "will you be my girlfriend?" you'd get nothing.

I disagree. 3000 approaches is a lot! Some of the chicks have got to be nymphos/DTF. Even if he asked 3000 girls to suck his dick, there would be one or two who would say yes. Unless, of course, he ended up in jail before finding them.

[Giovonny]

I just talked to him on the phone!

Only for about a minute! He was busy doing something.

He is real. No Troll. (unless, I'm getting "cat-fished")

Pleasant young lad who is just very inexperienced in the social arts.

I'm trying to skype later!

[Christian McQueen]

OP has PM'd me and I emailed him back that I will be in contact after the weekend. Once Friday hits I'm in a state of partying until Monday.

With the free help of Gio and myself (and all of the cats who have posted on this thread) no one can accuse the RVF forum of not offering help to those who want it.

[Travesty]

This could end up being a movie script seriously.

[simondice]

Jezebel would have an Aneurism if that film came out

[eradicator]

(06-06-2014 06:32 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

If anyone truly believes you can do THREE-THOUSAND APPROACHES and not get one girl is not thinking rationally.

It's a few days after the 1st and this is epic trolling on another level.

If the OP is legit, than fly yourself to Los Angeles and put yourself up for 1 week and I'll get you laid and she won't be an escort.

You'd learn more about game in a weekend or 7 days with me then you can imagine, plus it's probably only take me an hour or two of seeing your 'approaches' to point out your specific issues and most importantly show you how to fix them.

OP the offer stands until Monday.

And don't forget this is a FREE offer, which I don't really do.

As GManifesto would say: The rest is up to you.

I'd help if he comes to los angeles. I am not a pua guru or anything, but I can at least talk to him and give a motivational talk, though it would contain a lot of the things already said here.

[Travesty]

This guy's gonna be RVF's Captain Planet with all our powers combined.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

@Christian McQeen & @ Gio - great from your side to help out!

Keep us posted, because this seems to be worthy of a ROK article by itself!

[Vigo_the_Carpathian]

Honestly, this could be the ultimate troll--this guy has big guns like Gio & McQueen ready to help him RIGHT NOW...and only finds the time to talk to Gio on the phone for like a minute? Despite writing 30,000 words about how hopeless he is? Fuck that shit.

Definitely respect Gio's opinion, but something doesn't add up here...

[jtteop]

Could I just ask as a newbie here, when Roosh says:

Quote:

For a small percentage of men, no amount of "game" or approaches can work

What would be the meaning or reason behind that?

From my POV the average guy could make 30 approaches and have a good chance of success. 3000 approaches in multiple different countries with no results? - well nothing about that makes any sense. That's like 8 a day for ten years. It's hard to imagine that each of those approaches ended in a solid "no" as women really don't like saying no. 3000 approaches is 3000 women who weren't feeling horny when in the presence of a well traveled man. How could that be possible?

[JWLZG]

(06-07-2014 05:03 AM)jtteop Wrote:  

Could I just ask as a newbie here, when Roosh says:

Quote:

For a small percentage of men, no amount of "game" or approaches can work

What would be the meaning or reason behind that?

It's been covered a number of times already. While 'incurable' is a term I'd use sparingly -- Willingness and attitude of the person factored in -- there are a select few who will, yes, get literally nowhere despite any number of approaches. Some sort of impediment in social functioning is usually manifested in these cases due to mental health conditions; learning or intellectual disorders. Standing on the autism spectrum is a classic example and that might translate into one's lifestyle, dressing, etc. -- which might in turn hurt one's game.

Specifically speaking, because these people are...different, or at least that differently wired, what works for a lot of people just will not work for them. It's not like how you or I could just -- in its basest form -- read a self-help book or website and apply those its principles as appropriate.

The fact that they're "blind" to social cues and mores means that building, learning from and applying reference experiences from social interactions are going to be that much harder, if not nigh on impossible.

Early intervention would help -- i.e. social skills classes, special assistance in schools -- and might work in adulthood, but I have a strong feeling that artificial and professional help might be prioritised more than all the pick up coaches in the world.

To be fair to ASD sufferers, at least a couple of them I know personally have developed enough to function socially at a conventionally enough level. Notwithstanding a few tics, you mightn't have known they were diagnosed until they told you.

(06-07-2014 05:03 AM)jtteop Wrote:  

From my POV the average guy could make 30 approaches and have a good chance of success. 3000 approaches in multiple different countries with no results? - well nothing about that makes any sense. That's like 8 a day for ten years. It's hard to imagine that each of those approaches ended in a solid "no" as women really don't like saying no. 3000 approaches is 3000 women who weren't feeling horny when in the presence of a well traveled man. How could that be possible?

Not to be anal, but even if it meant just under one a day for ten years (pretty fucking impressive if that's the truth) that he had bugger all to show up for it might just tell you something. A handful of Filipina lays (all bar one being P4P) is really no indicator, sorry.
My stepmother is Filipina and I can tell you that for everyone like her, there are a thousand of her fellow countrywomen (scratch that; South-East Asians) who would trade an arm to be in her shoes.

Although you have a point, jtteop -- 3000 unsuccessful approaches is one thing; but for that to occur across the world, and in spite of all that travel?? Everything about that facet screams either troll or massive red flag.

[Monxp]

I hope OP really goes to meet up Christian. The fastest way to improve yourself in game (and in life in general) is to do things with someone who really knows what he's doing and is willing to help you out.

[thegreenman]

El mechanic:
I’ll take you up on that offer, to commandeer my dating profile. I sent you a PM.



On Approach Just to Get Rejected
I used to do that, when I was starting out. A long time ago. When I was still scared of approaching, I made it a point to just do as many approaches as possible until I was no longer scared, regardless of whether I actually got any results from it. I would just crash and burn for the sake of conquering the approach anxiety. But after I proved to myself that I could do it, I started to refine it more. Over time I would pick and choose more and more. I definitely don’t approach just to get rejected now.




On Transitioning to Sensual Conversation
I’m sure there are guys who are at such an advanced level that they can approach a girl being immediately sensual. But my approach is to be fun, friendly, and slightly cocky, at first, and then transition into sensuality once the girl is comfortable. The problem is, I have no clue how to transition into sensual! I just never got that part. When I try it, it’s extremely awkward.




On Male Friends
In response to RockHard, I have a few friends who would loan me $100, let me sleep at their place, and get my back in a tough situation. I think I have like 2 or 3 of them. They’re all from highschool, one of them has moved to another state, and the other two are busy all the time working 9-5 and rarely ever have the time to hang out. One of them was in almost the same boat as me regarding girls, but he managed to find himself a girlfriend last year, and they’ve been together since. I haven’t been able to make any close friends since highschool.

When I'm traveling, I find it easy to make friends! But I never managed to stay in touch with after leaving the state/country where I met them. Usually we email back and forth a few times, and then gradually it pitters out. Sometimes I’ll call them on the phone out of the blue, just to catch up and see what eachother have been up to.

I have no trouble at all meeting people while traveling. Let me repeat that: I CAN EASILY MAKE SPONTANEOUS FRIENDS while traveling. It’s no problem at all for me to meet cool people in the hostels. They’ll often invite me out to come do stuff with them. On my first day in the Philippines, a group consisting of 2 Brits and 2 Israelis invited me out to visit the Taal volcano island with them. In India, I met fellow travelers on the street, ate with them, got invited to check out ashrams with them. Several people invited me on hikes. A Japanese guy invited me to a film screening. Some girls invited me to visit a giant golden temple shaped like a golfball. Everywhere I go, I easily meet people. I don’t think I’m coming across as a social retard. At least not in the initial stages. Maybe after knowing people for a while, I’m doing something then, or failing to do something then.

It might have something to do with the fact that I’m just not THAT interested in male companionship. I appreciate the company of cool guys, of course. I like having someone to talk to, especially when I’m trying to meet girls. But I just have this tunnel vision when it comes to females. I need female presence in my life – I need to touch and be touched by females – I need intimacy with a female. It’s such a pervasive need, that no matter how much I try to “just chill with the guys” and “having a good time with the guys”, I can’t do it. I’m sitting there pretending to be having a good time. The whole time I’m sitting with “the guys”, I’m thinking “when will this be over so I can go meet some chicks?”

I’m sure if I had a girlfriend, I’d start to relax and appreciate male companionship more. Cause it’s not that I don’t care. I’m not a sociopath. When I’m hanging out with guys, I’m listening attentively to what they’re saying, putting myself in their shoes, often trying to figure out solutions to their problems. A lot of times I give them great insights about their lives, and they thank me for it. I genuinely want to make the world a better place, and help out my fellow humans. I’m always the first to help somebody who’s in need. Sometimes I’ll sit and chat with homeless dudes. If a guy needs help moving into his new apartment, I’m there to help. The only thing is… I’m fucking miserable while I’m doing it. Miserable that it’s distracting me from meeting girls, and waiting the whole time for it to be over. It must be confusing to people, because here I am, helping them and being of service, and giving, but at the same time I’ve probably got this look on my face that says “get me the fuck outta here!! Where dem bitches at!!”





On Using Yoga to Meet Women
I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve played this angle! The thing with yoga chicks is they’re a little bit anti-sex. What I mean by that, is that their gurus are all celibate men. The men they look up to are very clearly asexual, and the highest ideals that they aspire to, all involve “putting away your desires” and being a complete unit unto yourself. It’s “I don’t need a man!” times 10, with 5000 years of ancient tradition to back it up. And they’ve adopted a type of mental programming that says that sex is a distraction from the journey to enlightenment.

I talk to girls in yoga class. I flirt with them (before and after the class, not during it, lol). And the whole time I’m doing so, they’re looking at me with this look on their faces that says “ugh, I can’t believe you’re using yoga class to meet women! You’re soooo behind the program, seriously. I thought we left this misogynistic bullshit behind when Obama got elected, ugh. In fact, I can’t even believe you’re a MALE doing yoga, that’s seriously not cool, unless you’re gay – are you gay? No? So then what are you doing here?”





Christian McQueen’s offer:
Thanks dude! I’ve pm’ed you. Money is an issue for me, but if I save up over the next few weeks I should be able to make it out to LA. Seriously! If you really believe you know how to help me get past this, then I’m game.




On Alcohol
I’ve heard it many times: just get your ass drunk, and hook up with a drunk chick.

Alcohol, to me, isn’t liquid courage like it is for others. I’ve got the courage already. What alcohol does for me is it makes me go to SLEEP. After one or two drinks, my eyelids start to close, and all I want to do is just slink back in my chair and doze off. Not really that helpful in being social! I can already socialize.

I can maybe see the value of it, if I’m already with a chick, isolated, and it’s “time to get physical. Maybe having a glass of wine would help me relax into my sexuality. For this reason, I’ve kept a bottle in my fridge at various points in time. But I gotta get there first! So far I don’t have a chick who’s willing to hook up with me, so until I get there, the alcohol makes no difference.





Giovonny:
We only talked for a minute last night cause I was out at a bar and we couldn’t hear eachother that well. He said he’d be on tonight, so we’ll try it again!




Everyone Else:
I really appreciate all the effort you’re putting into this. Even if I didn't reply to you individually, I have read every single post, a couple of times. There's some really good advice in there.

Seriously, I haven’t gotten so many folks sincerely helping me at once in a long long time. It’s really giving me more motivation and confidence already, just knowing that there are other people out there who care. So thank you all so much!

I'm going to an outdoor festival today. Plenty of opportunities there. Will report what happens!