[thegreenman]

Thanks for all the good advice guys. I appreciate that some of you are taking the time to offer some assistance.

Since there are so many replies, I'll answer the general ideas that have been brought up. Starting with:

#1.  Most importantly, no, I'm not planning on pulling a Rodger.  I have no interest in weapons or violence of any kind. I'm a vegetarian. I brought him up because he illustrates what can happen to people over time, if they lose all hope of bettering themselves.  But I have alternatives, like going to SEA and teaching Engrish for a year.  I know I'll have a girlfriend there, even if it's based on white guy status at least I'll have physical contact with a female, which is all I'm asking for, really.  And even if that somehow didn't work, there are a number of 'crazy' things I would do before going on a rampage. Among them are:
-Dating an obese chick
-Retreating away from society and living on a mountaintop in the Himalayas
-Using my jewy genes to leech society of its wealth, get rich and buy hookers everyday
-Sending penis pics to every girl on okcupid
-Becoming a mormon, moving to utah, and joining the tabernacle choir (i have a great singing voice)
-Starting my own religion/cult, using the "finding an ancient buried book" model
-Becoming an MRA and trolling feminist forums
-Importing a mail-order bride
-Going to New Mexico and getting a remote cabin and demanding an audience with a ufo, to take me to a better planet
-Standing on the street with a sign that says "will work for sex", and putting it on youtube
-Using Tinder
-Becoming a white-knight, and patiently waiting, concurrent with a newfound opium habit to make the time go by faster
-Traveling to Haiti and learning voodoo/hoodoo love-potion sorcery

As you can see, I'm not a quitter, and I always have a Plan B.

Now, let's get into the attraction and dating issues.

#2. Escalating
I'm aware that the guy has to be the one to make the moves. Nevertheless, this is usually the part I get stuck on. I admit, I'm clueless when it comes to starting physical contact. Clueless.

But still, I do my best. When I'm talking to a girl, and I've got her laughing and a decent conversation going, I think to myself, "ok, time to start touching her."  From here it goes in one of two directions:
1) the majority of the time, I look for "openings", moments when initiating physical contact would feel somewhat smooth and natural.  Maybe shes laughing and I'll put my hand on her shoulder. I feel weird and like a creep when i do it. Almost always, theres an immediate awkwardness, as if the music stops and suddenly there are crickets chirping and its like, "oh brother, this guy is trying to get with me...not again"....
I mean it's totally not smooth. I have no idea how to touch a girl in a way that feels natural. 

Sometimes I'll look for IOI's and wait for the best "opening" to touch her.  Im sitting there thinking "Where do I touch her? When do I touch her? Do i grab her hand? Do i pat her shoulder? What do I do while I'm doing it - do I pretend like it's no big deal and I'm not even thinking about it, as in "ah well lookie here, my hand ended up on your shoulder, I wonder how that happened" - or do I own it like a manbeast, and look her directly in the eye while I'm doing it, as in "Yes I'm touching you, I am MAN, how do you like that?". Do I keep talking while I'm touching her, or do I go silent to savor and own the moment?

I realize that this is all overthinking. I get that. Anyone who says "you're way stuck in your analytical mind dude, you need to just chill out, have fun, and go with the flow" is 100% right. Really. I agree with you. 
But how? How do I get into the flow with a girl? I can quiet my mind when I'm meditating in the forest. When I have a chance to sit down, settle in, and just chill the fuck out and breathe for a while. But how do I do that with a girl? If I just sit there in lotus position, breathing in, breathing out, not saying anything, then the girl gets bored and drifts away. I've even tried a strategy where I ask the girl to meditate with me. Most girls around here don't even know what meditation is, and aren't interested, and they think it's weird. The ones who ARE into meditation are all hippies, and think flirting is heteronormative patriarchal oppression.

The times I hired prostitutes, I had the same issue. I didn't have a chance to relax. It was "hello, get undressed, sucky fucky bye.". I barely enjoyed it. I enjoyed it as far as being able to say "I'm with a girl! My dick is in a pussy!" But I didn't enjoy the physical sensations because my mind was racing. And no, this doesnt make me gay - I've heard that one before. Ive never felt attraction for a dude. Im attracted to girls. When I'm relaxed in my own room, looking at porn, I get highly aroused. When Ive been at strip clubs, where I get to sit back, take things at my own pace, and let the girl come to me and do all the work, I get highly aroused. But only when I get the chance to RELAX first.  The human sexual response is a function of the parasympathetic (rest and digest) nervous system. A person cannot begin to exhibit sexual response potential if they are not in a relaxed mood. 

And that's why I have trouble witb the "sexual vibe" everybody talks about.

I have alpha body language. I know how to walk into a room and command respect from everybody in it.  But my vibe doesnt come across as SEXUAL. It's confident, dominant, it says "I'm cool,and I don't give a fuck about anyones approval." It says "I'm different from every other guy you've ever met."  But it isn't sexual. I have no idea how to be sexual, at least not in a public social situation. I know how to jerk off to porn, though.

And so, because of this, whenever I begin touching a girl, it takes her by surprise. She wasn't expecting it. There was no sexual vibe beforehand, so she's probably thinking "WHY?" "Why is he touching me now? What's he trying to do?". Almost always, she begins looking for excuses to extricate herself from the conversation.

So thats where I get hung up. Sexual vibe, and initiating physical contact.

#3. Meeting up with forum guys
So far, three people have contacted me to hang out this weekend.  They will be able to report to you that I am, in fact, male, and that I can, in fact, approach and start conversations with girls.

Later tonight I'll get back on and see if I can address some other questions.
Thanks for all the help so far. 

[MdWanderer]

(06-05-2014 01:33 PM)thegreenman Wrote:  

#2. Escalating
I'm aware that the guy has to be the one to make the moves. Nevertheless, this is usually the part I get stuck on. I admit, I'm clueless when it comes to starting physical contact. Clueless.

But still, I do my best. When I'm talking to a girl, and I've got her laughing and a decent conversation going, I think to myself, "ok, time to start touching her."  From here it goes in one of two directions:
1) the majority of the time, I look for "openings", moments when initiating physical contact would feel somewhat smooth and natural.  Maybe shes laughing and I'll put my hand on her shoulder. I feel weird and like a creep when i do it. Almost always, theres an immediate awkwardness, as if the music stops and suddenly there are crickets chirping and its like, "oh brother, this guy is trying to get with me...not again"....
I mean it's totally not smooth. I have no idea how to touch a girl in a way that feels natural. 

Sometimes I'll look for IOI's and wait for the best "opening" to touch her.  Im sitting there thinking "Where do I touch her? When do I touch her? Do i grab her hand? Do i pat her shoulder? What do I do while I'm doing it - do I pretend like it's no big deal and I'm not even thinking about it, as in "ah well lookie here, my hand ended up on your shoulder, I wonder how that happened" - or do I own it like a manbeast, and look her directly in the eye while I'm doing it, as in "Yes I'm touching you, I am MAN, how do you like that?". Do I keep talking while I'm touching her, or do I go silent to savor and own the moment?

Cheer up and put down the knife, you pretty much just found the answer to a big chunk of your problem. You're gonna need to feel like a 'creep' while you're escalating. The only time it's interpreted by the girl as creepy if she has no interest in you (like an ass grab with the hot secretary at work). But of course you will want to do this in stages. Try to do some light touching, or if you are at a club, some dancing to start. A little tickling goes a long way too, so you're putting off a playful, non-creepy vibe while at the same time getting your touches in.

Then, you will want to isolate her to escalate further, ala in a corner, a bathroom, a private place, etc (after you've been vibing for a good 30 minutes or so). Move to the ass then tits while you try to make out with her (girls RARELY initiate makeouts). Escalation will invest her into you more and take you out of the friendzone. Read Roosh's BANG to get a better idea on this. Some IOIs to look for is whether she is touching you, prolonging the conversation, dancing with you, telling you about her personal life, etc.

[Atlantic]

(06-05-2014 01:33 PM)thegreenman Wrote:  

I know I'll have a girlfriend there, even if it's based on white guy status at least I'll have physical contact with a female, which is all I'm asking for, really.  And even if that somehow didn't work, there are a number of 'crazy' things I would do before going on a rampage. Among them are:

...

-Using Tinder

For a guy who is so hung up on getting sex and willing to put in copious amounts of effort to get laid to skip over and joke about an app which by design makes it incredibly easy to fuck girls is baffling.

If a guy came on the Oil Sands thread desperately looking for work after stopping 3000 people on the street but laughed at using an online job website I would think the exact same thing as I do here: zero social awareness and very poor strategy.

I suspect huge troll but if you have some way of proving otherwise PM me and Ill Skype you with advice.

[Giovonny]

I had a short skype exchange with him last night.

We didn't actually skype we just messaged each other.

Honestly, it was a little awkward.

I sense a lack of social skills. Duh!!!

We are supposed to skype tonight.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

[MdWanderer]

(06-05-2014 02:16 PM)Atlantic Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 01:33 PM)thegreenman Wrote:  

I know I'll have a girlfriend there, even if it's based on white guy status at least I'll have physical contact with a female, which is all I'm asking for, really.  And even if that somehow didn't work, there are a number of 'crazy' things I would do before going on a rampage. Among them are:

...

-Using Tinder

For a guy who is so hung up on getting sex and willing to put in copious amounts of effort to get laid to skip over and joke about an app which by design makes it incredibly easy to fuck girls is baffling.

If a guy came on the Oil Sands thread desperately looking for work after stopping 3000 people on the street but laughed at using an online job website I would think the exact same thing as I do here: zero social awareness and very poor strategy.

I suspect huge troll but if you have some way of proving otherwise PM me and Ill Skype you with advice.

I understand what you are saying but he's going to need nerves of steel to deal with all the flakiness from online dating.

[Atlantic]

^ Its more the lack of an ability to adapt.

Like it or not tinder and similar apps now make up a considerable portion of the average girls dating strategy. To ignore and then also mock such a platform shows ego and/or poor social intelligence.

If you are getting laid plenty from night game or what have you then sure feel free to skip over online game.

But if you are not getting laid whatsoever, like the OP, then mocking such a sizable portion of the dating market is ridiculous. I am not saying he will succeed but he definitely should be using it.

3,000 approaches hasn't worked? Stop approaching. For whatever reason that method will not work for you. Not yet anyway, maybe after successes from another method.

If I was had not gotten laid for a lengthy period of time I would be trying multiple strategies:
-Day game
-Social Circle Game
-Night Game
-Online Game
-Club and Network Game: Yoga, Language classes, Spinning classes, Cultural events, Match making nights

Try EVERYTHING and follow the method which seems to be giving the best results. Don't just keep mindlessly approaching another 1,000 girls.

Cover your basics: gym, style, looks, body language, voice, smell, logistics etc. Go to the Game section and organise posts by replies/view counts. This will show up a lot of the good material.

Cut out porn and hookers. It is giving you false and unrealistic expectations as to how your real life encounters will play out.

If you really want to get laid as bad as you do then start throwing out everything that hasn't been working so far. Try a completely new approach to the whole game.

[Rotisserie]

(06-05-2014 01:33 PM)thegreenman Wrote:  

Sometimes I'll look for IOI's and wait for the best "opening" to touch her.  Im sitting there thinking "Where do I touch her? When do I touch her? Do i grab her hand? Do i pat her shoulder? What do I do while I'm doing it - do I pretend like it's no big deal and I'm not even thinking about it, as in "ah well lookie here, my hand ended up on your shoulder, I wonder how that happened" - or do I own it like a manbeast, and look her directly in the eye while I'm doing it, as in "Yes I'm touching you, I am MAN, how do you like that?". Do I keep talking while I'm touching her, or do I go silent to savor and own the moment?

This is... suspicious. You're obviously a goddamn connoisseur of game, if everything said here is true. You know that going from 0-60 by going from no touching to hand-on-shoulder can definitely scare the cat away, especially if you haven't had any IOIs. The easiest way to initiate contact is simply to tap her forearm with the back of your hand or fingers, while you make an observation or are about to begin talking. That's absolutely not 'creepy' at all, and if she reciprocates throughout the conversation or doesn't flinch when you do it again, it also has the added benefit of being somewhat of an IOI.

If you've ever danced, there's also a very proper place to put your hands on a girl, and that's her upper mid back or scapula/shoulder blade (or simply high back, just away from the waist). People who dance without ballroom form tend to scare non-dancers away because it feels and looks more sleazy than the upright, proper posture of ballroom. You can tap her there when you laugh or make an observation.

If you indeed are 5'2" and bald, my condolences. Either way, here's a comment from someone who asked 'do women dislike dating short men':

Quote:

I am just over five feet tall. I dated one man who was 5'2" and I really liked that we could literally see eye to eye. Of course, I liked his personality and his optomism and his zest for life. The fact that he was about my height was a bonus. We had similar strides when we walked, his hands were small like mine - I think if he hadn't transferred for a job, we might have become very serious with each other. I have dated many men who were between 5'4" and 5'7" and many of them could not get over the fact that they were short. They brought it up all the time, the made self deprecating comments and told jokes about being short. Nothing worked out with any of those men, and it wasn't their height that bothered me. It was their attitude about their height that bothered me. I still think about that man who is 5'2" and fantasize that I might run into him again someday.

A positive and cheerful outlook will do more for you than approaching and reading IOIs ever will.

[Wayout]

OP...just like I predicted you afraid to touch a woman. I was in the same situation myself long time ago and it all went away and became very natural for me once I took up dance classes! Find a salsa class and go ahead...touch all you want in a socially acceptable,low pressure,fun environment! After a few weeks or months you will feel very natural holding a female - I guarantee it! If you can find a KIzomba class - even better! You can't get closer to a girl than in KIzomba!

[Truth Teller]

(06-05-2014 01:33 PM)thegreenman Wrote:  

And that's why I have trouble witb the "sexual vibe" everybody talks about.

I have alpha body language. I know how to walk into a room and command respect from everybody in it.  But my vibe doesnt come across as SEXUAL. It's confident, dominant, it says "I'm cool,and I don't give a fuck about anyones approval." It says "I'm different from every other guy you've ever met."  But it isn't sexual. I have no idea how to be sexual, at least not in a public social situation. I know how to jerk off to porn, though.

And so, because of this, whenever I begin touching a girl, it takes her by surprise. She wasn't expecting it. There was no sexual vibe beforehand, so she's probably thinking "WHY?" "Why is he touching me now? What's he trying to do?". Almost always, she begins looking for excuses to extricate herself from the conversation.

I'm going to bet that your body language isn't as dominant (alpha) as you think it is. I would contend that dominant body language automatically makes you out as more of a sexual threat. If you're moving slowly and having dominant body language, you're going to come across as more sexual than a guy who's picking at his nails, jerking his head, moving really quickly, etc. Why? Because you're under control, and if you're under control while in a room with 150 people, then you're going to be under control in bed.

I've told this story in this thread before, but I've gotten a make out based solely on body language. I said probably twenty words to this girl, and then I started making out with her. However, I was leaning back against a wall, she was leaning into me, and I was looking at her with sexual intent.

As for touching, you're probably ramping it up too quickly. If you go from no touching to just grabbing her around the waist, then it comes off as strange.

By the way, I don't know if anyone has mentioned this... but it's very possible that you're simply coming off as needy. You claim to have approached 3000 women with minimal success. If you're approaching with the "I need this to happen," then you're fucked from the time you open your mouth. In my experience (limited as it is), you need to approach with an "if this happens, it would be cool, but if it doesn't, that's fine too" mindset.

Also, consider the no-fap challenge. It's tremendously helpful in terms of game.

[Merenguero]

Truth Teller
I'm going to bet that your body language isn't as dominant (alpha) as you think it is. I would contend that dominant body language automatically makes you out as more of a sexual threat. If you're moving slowly and having dominant body language, you're going to come across as more sexual than a guy who's picking at his nails, jerking his head, moving really quickly, etc. Why? Because you're under control, and if you're under control while in a room with 150 people, then you're going to be under control in bed.

[b' Wrote:  

I've told this story in this thread before, but I've gotten a make out based solely on body language. I said probably twenty words to this girl, and then I started making out with her. However, I was leaning back against a wall, she was leaning into me, and I was looking at her with sexual intent.[/b]

As for touching, you're probably ramping it up too quickly. If you go from no touching to just grabbing her around the waist, then it comes off as strange.

This is a good point. The same thing happened to me a few weeks ago and it's happened before. I was in Mandala and went up to the bar to order a drink. I asked the girl who was standing next to me at the bar what her name was, where she was from, and what she was doing in Playa. She immediately grabbed me and started making out with me. I'm sure I'm not the only one to whom those things happen.

[lowside]

(06-05-2014 02:54 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I had a short skype exchange with him last night.

We didn't actually skype we just messaged each other.

Honestly, it was a little awkward.

I sense a lack of social skills. Duh!!!

We are supposed to skype tonight.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

if this turns out to be the real deal, my jaw will drop. but it'll be a great opportunity for this forum.

[TonySandos]

Until this guy shows his face to someone I refuse to believe the validity of this

[Peregrine]

Not that I'm vouching for this guy, but his story isn't that hard to believe. It's not a particularly original one, and the fact that OP thinks otherwise indicates narcissistic tendencies, but I'd be more surprised if this was a troll.

[Merenguero]

He seems legitimate over P.M., although I haven't been able to meet up with him. I was ready, willing, and able to meet him last night, but he wasn't available. Tonight, I wasn't feeling too well, so I didn't contact him. I have to be somewhere in a few hours and still haven't gone to sleep, so I'll probably be too tired tomorrow night. Next weekend, I have to go back to the Jersey Shore for reasons related to this new project of mine that I hinted about earlier in the thread. If he wants to meet me in Atlantic City, Avalon, Anglesea, or Cape May next Saturday, that may be even better. There are hotter, sluttier girls there and I have local status.

[cooledcannon]

This all seems like we are all part of the Truman Show or something...

[PapayaTapper]

(06-05-2014 01:38 AM)Distant Light Wrote:  

Troll or not, dude mentioned that other sad case who off'd himself. I read the whole thing because no way I will overlook someone who is in a similar headspace. YOU need to expand your reality!!!!!

FIRST OF ALL, do you not realize the amazing life you've already had? You...
- Went to montreal to livr
- Roadtrip U.S
- Lived in a forest
- Worked on a farm
- Dabbled in politics
- Went to india
- Went to SEA
- Went to costa rica
- Lived in a tent in florida

I'm reading your post and thinking "this guy was clearly on an adventure" but you fucked up your own experiences obsessing over women in hopes of filling some void. You want loving companionship GET A DOG they will love you unconditionally.

Also in that whole wall of text, not once have you mentioned giving women the opportunity to be sexual with you. Not a single opportunity for her to kiss yiu, flirt, be isolated or play around. ANOTHER MAJOR RED FLAG...

You do cool shit but it doesnt sound like you were doing it for the fun, memorable, enjoyment of it all. You practically are living your life for the sake of hopefully finding a woman to fill your illusionary void. It also comes off very selfish because NOT ONCE did you mention anything from the perspective of GIVING women an experience. All you 're thinking about is "I, I, I".

What I advise...
- Like my good friend travolta mentioned focus on making some money (preferably online)
- Go explore SEA
- You say you did lots of spirtual stuff, read "My Big Toe" by Thomas Campbell (free on google books)
- Stop obsessing over women, calm down, your serious/logical cause n effect mentality is what is killing the vibe. HAVE FUN and bring people into it, show people your world and give women the opportunity to have a sexual experience.

For me reading this type of stuff is MIND BOGGLING because I value being single and being alone. I am very skeptical about which girls I'd allow to have a close bond with me just because not all women have the same level of consciousness.

All this "seeking women for psychological fuffilment" is unhealthy. It clouds the actual experience of actually binge an adventurer who is "high on life" and happens to meet, socialize, and flirt with a woman who has come along.

Just take a step back, do you not realize you have made women to center of your life. They have total control of your emotional state without them even knowing it. As I always say to people, what happens when you get the girl? You can die now because life is complete? Its irrational.

As for friends, have you ever gave people the opportunity to come into your life for the sake of HAVING FUN IN A SHARED EXPERIENCE? You dont have female friends because you were obsessing over TRYING to get women. Women are not mystical THEY WANT TO HAVE FUN in a non-pressured relaxed environment. How the hell will she be able to do that if she feels a hidden agenda of a guy who is acting like he went all in on a high stakes poker game.

Women arent going anywhere your 28, you've had an amazinf journey so far, its just you cant see the good because you childishly and immaturely focused on such a small aspect of life.

Action Plan... (Its sad, you dont even realize how money you are)
1. Go out just having genuine fun of actually being out able to socialize with people (You coulda been born in fucking syria forced to no longer even go to school due to civil war...be grateful, some people over there would trade shoes in a heart beat)

2. Keep interactions short just have some fun socializing

3. The chicks who peak your interest, screen/challenge/test them about yoga. In a way that is congruent to you sort of challenge/encourage/incite them to try some yoga at your place with a few friends. Add that you might cook food after or your favorite smoothie.

4. Give them your number for SOCIAL REASONS, in this case yoga n smoothie/food with friends. (Have them text you their name)

5a. Do this with 10-15 chicks

5b. Pick 8-12 chicks in the night who you are meshing well with. In your own congruent way imply that she is starting to peak your interest and your interested in seeing where things potentially go since she seems like fun...GIVE ALL 8-12 CHICKS IN THAT NIGHT A KISS...If you kiss, find out logistics and tell her straight up that you might be willing for HER TO TAKE YOU HOME.

6. Look online how to make a smoothie or refreshing light meal (salad, tapas, apps) and practice making it

7. Invite all 10-15 girls to come over for yoga n refreshments after (those are your other friends you said would be coming along)

8. Do it, express your enjoyment and the idea of possibly doing this weekly, bi-weekly, monthly

9. The girls who peak your interest just do step 5b

NOTE, this isnt going to work if your vibe is still of a guy obsessed with wanting female affection. BE a man who is already fuffilled and simply sharinf HIMSELF TO THE WORLD. Bring these women into your life, show them what you'rer about. HAVE FUN LIVING YOUR LIFE!!!!! I can guarantee you 100% if I spoke about living in a tent with 7 brazillians chicks wouldve loved it because I am addicted to fun ans adventure...NOT BECAUSE OF WOMEN...but because i genuinely believe people should make their lives memorable for the sake of their enjoyment. Also I've told many women about the idea of camping which again was a perfect way to exchanfe info.

At the end of the day always ask yourself...
- Did I give women a chance to meet me?
- Did I give women the opportunity to come along into my life?
- Did I provide an opportunity for women to flirt and/or be sexually playful with me?

One more thing, Male and Female sexual dynamics IS NOT SERIOUS AT ALL!!!! It is fun, playful and almost child-like. Look for behind the scenes of porn sets, it is a relaxed atmosphere and most likely someone is being flirtatious and sexually playful. Most community dudes problems stem from not having fun and beinf logical, formal, serious. Just look at the difference between serious pickup companies youtube channels and the prank/troll/pickup channels.

All in all, dont give up on life just because of your lack of companionship, if you change your perspective you will naturaly experience women being drawn to you and sex occuring because your giving women the chance to do so. You will never get laid if you arent giving women the chance to be sexual. Only exception is if your so much fun and enjoying life so much that she is compelled to want you.

Were all on our own journey dont let your mind dissuade you into negativity. You already lived a rather sick life, far more interesting than my own life. Ironically its because of the realms I am apart of BUT for me the most memorable thing is the MOMENTS i've had with other humans. Seeing a guy break up with his girlfriend because he was partying with me and having so much fun, that he realized his gf wasnt a goos person to have in his life. In all honesty, i'd probably trade my ability to attract women just to be able to go on an adventure with my good friend. (travolta) The world is a big place beyond the small petty mindless problems dont let your mind create a dark fantasy where you cant see all the GOOD.

Excellent post and I couldn't agree with you more. I think "appreciating what we have" instead of dwelling on what we dont have is something I think we all struggle with (I know I do) because we've been wired (by evolution or a creator...whatever you choose to believe) to "want".

If our species didn't have that built in mechanism to acquire, achieve, experience,MORE we'd still be living in a pretty primitive world.

As individuals striking the balance between continuing to grow,acquire, experience so that we don't become complacent AND living in the moment enough to enjoy what (or who) we are doing and have already done is THE KEY to living a fulfilled life

I only discovered this forum a few months ago and in addition to appreciating the posts for their sometimes informative, and always entertaining commentary I really enjoy some of the real nuggets of wisdom and compassion such as this one...kudos

As far as the OP's topic: If you are for real, I hope you take advantage of the help that's being offered. If you are actually that comfortable approaching and you are getting to the point where you can make ANY physical contact without the chick pulling away or screaming rape you're IMO 95% there. There are 5 billion people in the world to give testament to the fact that fucking aint a rare occurrence.

[Flint]

Interim conclusion of this thread:

The OP writes one of the saddest, longest and most heart-breaking and also cringe-worthy posts I've seen here in a while. Is it factually true what he writes (3000 approaches)? Is he a woman? A troll? A potential psycho who may go on a killing spree? I sincerely don't know. But somehow it doesn't matter because this thread already provided a lot of value, nonetheless:

WIA drops his terse and catchy wisdom that I always I enjoy to read.

Giovonny, a forum veteran and daygame master, offers a Skype conversation to help that guy.

DistantLight, a player that belongs to 0.1% of guys who regularly lay models in NYC and lives a life that seemingly only exists in movies, writes one of the most life-affirming and uplifting posts I've ever read on the forum.

RVF became sort of boring to me recently, because of the superabundance of dull threads on feminism and "cultural decline". But this thread, which landed in the Newbie-section that I mostly overlook, convinced to stick to this place. Keep it going, comrades!

[thegreenman]

Alright, thanks for all the replies guys. I'm gonna do my best to address the topics that you brought up. In no particular order...




Finding my personal style of game

My style is definitely more direct. I really don’t like indirect – I cringe every time I have to make up something that didn’t happen, or talk about X while I’m really thinking of Y. One of the aspects of confidence is being able to come through an interaction thinking “I lived up to my principles and was true to myself.” As long as I come out of it with that, the rejection doesn’t bother me.





The Filipina girl who I slept with

The one time I slept with a girl who wasn’t a prostitute, I was too tired to actually fuck. I should have said the more accurate term, “I slept with her.” I’m sure I’ll get plenty of flack from some of you, saying that I should have taken a Redbull or a Viagra or who-knows-what. But basically, I was exhausted after a day of traveling and taking public transportation around Manila, and for those of you who have been to third-world countries (and I’m talking serious third-world, not your fancy-ass Latin American barrios), you know that just being in some of those enormous, polluted, noisy cities can drain your energy really fast if you’re not used to it. That’s what happened. I was so tired I just plopped down on the bed. My head was spinning and I could barely keep my eyes open. She gave me a BJ, we made out some, and I fell asleep. Perhaps a real man would have doused himself with a bucket of cold water, done a line of coke, and purposely stuck his fingers in an electric outlet. Hindsight is 20/20.





Creepiness
Perhaps there’s some validity to that, but I wouldn’t use the word “creepy” – I would use the word “unusual.” I’m definitely unusual, no doubt about it.
Creepy is when a person has no empathy, no ability to put himself in the position of the other person to know what the other person is feeling. Creepy people don’t notice (or care) about the effects their behavior is having on others.
An unusual person is someone who doesn’t fit into any recognizable roles. That’s me. I’m very aware of the person’s emotional state who I’m talking to, and I care about making sure the vibes I put out are positive.
But a lot of people tend to conflate the two. This is especially common among the cookie-cutter/blue-pill/in-the-matrix/9-to-5 type people, and so I’ve tried to overcome it by hanging out with more alternative/open-minded/hippy/unconventional crowds. The problem with those crowds, however, is that they often have their own equally rigid standards, and demand just as much conformity as the “mainstream” crowd – just to a different set of rules. And they tend to be militant feminists who treat penis-carriers as a lower caste.




On Not Needing Women to be Happy
Yep, heard this many times. The guys who say this are usually the ones who get pussy. Of COURSE it’s not a big deal. Something is never a big deal until it’s missing.
I admit I haven’t ever really grasped this concept. I can’t even wrap my head around how a person could be happy without at least some level of intimacy with the opposite sex. I’m not saying such a lifestyle doesn’t exist – I’m just saying that I can’t conceive of it. It’s not in my reality at the moment. I don’t want to sound too emo, but living a life without girls is fucking PAINFUL. I walk around with fucking pain all over my body. It’s not localized in any particular place – it’s just my whole fucking body, in a default state of pain. It feels like all of my muscles are made of sandpaper, and whenever I move, it’s sandpaper grating on sandpaper. The only time it goes away is when an attractive, feminine girl comes within a few feet of me. Then the pain turns into an exquisite sense of relief, like a wave washing over me, turning the sandpaper into smooth, wet, well-oiled parts that glide over eachother with ease. And when the girl walks away, it’s back to pain again. Nothing I do makes it go away – not yoga, not hiking, not jogging, not working, not working out – no matter what I do, my body just hurts all over, from the time I wake up to the time I go back to bed, and the most I can do is distract myself from it by doing activities that take me OUT of my body, away from the physical, and into my intellect (and hence the reason why I overthink so much!) The only way to actually alleviate the pain, and not just distract myself from it, is to be with a girl. Is this normal? Am I the only one who deals with this? Is it totally unheard of? Does anyone else know what I’m talking about, or am I like another fucking species or something?

I’d actually like to know. I’m not here to ruin your day with emo talk – I’m just telling the symptoms so I can get a diagnosis. Is this condition “found in the literature”?






Distant Light’s post
This is some really good stuff. I like how you’re reframing it as ME giving HER the opportunity to kiss and be sexual and mess around. That’s a nice twist. Usually I’m going around thinking if only I had the opportunity to be with her – and you’re coming from a reality in which I’m actually holding BACK my sexuality and love from her, and all I have to do is ALLOW HER to do what she already wants to do. So basically, she wants to do it with me, but I’m not letting her. Wow. I want more of that!

I’d like to expand on “giving women an experience.” I’m pretty sure I don’t do that. I leave an impression – but it’s usually an intellectual one, a la “wow that was fascinating”, rather than a sensual one that they want to fantasize about later. I have no practice doing that. Where do I begin? What is the first skill to learn, for giving a woman a sensual experience? Is there something that I can go out and practice right now? I'm gonna be meeting EddieBee tonight at a bar. I'm sure there will be women, and I want to practice this on one or three.





On Bringing Value to the Table

I also am not quite sure what I can “offer” women. You mentioned (or somebody mentioned) that I talk about myself all the time – “I, I, I”, and don’t ever talk about what I’m “bringing” or “giving” to the people I’m interacting with. And that this might indicate narcissistic tendencies. I get where you’re coming from. I understand if it sounds like that. But actually, what’s going on inside me is I’m thinking “I wish I COULD bring something to this interaction… I wish I HAD something to give to these people.” It’s not a matter of being selfish or narcissistic – it’s a matter of just not knowing what I can offer them. That, and being in a state of starvation (real or perceived), and being stuck in a sort of "socio-sexual survival mode". I want to give, I want to make people happy. I want to improve lives. I think about it all the time – how to make our world a better place, how to alleviate human (and animal) suffering. But I’m wondering where my next “meal” is coming from. I’m wondering if I’m going to spend the next week alone. Or month alone. It’s scary, and although I try to get past it, it’s gotta be showing up in my demeanor. I’m sure girls can sense it. They’ve got to. They have Spidey senses for neediness. No matter how much I try to cover it up and hide it, there's probably some tell-tale sign that gives it away that I haven't had a sexual experience since my previous incarnation (and possibly longer if I was some kind of monk in that one).

And I actually know, deep down, that I would make a wonderful friend, and an amazing boyfriend/mate/husband/fuckbuddy/whatever, if only someone would just give me a damn CHANCE. I have enormous confidence in my good qualities – I just don’t have any confidence in other people’s ability (or willingness) to recognize them. And I don’t know WHY they’re not recognizing them… all I know is that they’re not.

Occasionally, MEN will notice that I’m a good person. This has happened with a few of you guys here, and I thank you for it. It does make a difference. But the hangup comes in showing this to WOMEN. For some reason, WOMEN can’t see it (either they can’t see it, or they ARE seeing it but I’m unable to see that they see it!).

Maybe it’s because women don’t care about whether a guy is a good person or not, and only care whether he can make their pussies wet immediately upon meeting. I think this certainly has a lot to do with it. Most girls in the major cities are like this. However, I’ve been out in the countryside. I’ve traveled to the south, and the west. I’ve been hanging out with Mormons – the most traditional, non-carousel-oriented subculture that still exists in western civilization that simultaneously allows its members to use electricity. And even there, it doesn’t appear that anyone wants to be my friend. They talk to me at church – just a “hello, how are you”, and maybe a brief conversation about this or that. But they don’t CALL me. They don’t want to HANG OUT with me, or DO anything together. At least that’s how I’m perceiving it – perhaps they are reaching out to me, but I’m not noticing? It’s a possibility. And if true, it would beg the question, “why am I not noticing?”, and “how do I start noticing?”




Distant Light’s Action Plan
This sounds like a good idea. I’ll put it into use the next time I’m out (which might be as soon as tomorrow night).





Tinder
I didn’t even know what Tinder was until a week ago, when I read that post on ROK about it. At the moment I don’t even have Facebook, which apparently is required to use it.
But nevertheless, my reasoning for being reluctant to get involved with it, is that it wouldn’t be the most productive use of my time. It only goes on looks – nothing else. When I’m showing up in person, I have my personality. Even on a regular online dating site, character can come across through writing. But on a ‘swipe left/swipe right’ system, looks is all there is. I’d rather spam girls on okcupid, because at least they can see something about me besides that im bald and short and don’t have stylish clothing.

Nevertheless, if the consensus among ya'll is that Tinder would actually be a prudent use of time, then I'll try it out.





Style
Which brings us to style. I just don’t even know where to begin with that. My fashion process consists of a repeating cycle that goes as follows:
1.Look at my wardrobe, feel awkward and uncomfortable about every item in it
2.Go to the mall to shop for new clothes.
3.See something that (I think at the time) looks good, buy it and a few other things
4.The new item gets worn one time, and I feel uncomfortable in it
5.I don’t wear it again, and it sits in the wardrobe untouched for months
6.I can’t stand to look at it anymore, so I give it away to a clothing donation center
7.Repeat step 1

Often times I’ll read men’s fashion websites or magazines if I see one laying around. And I can’t understand what’s in it – to me it’s like reading an alien language. The only things I glean from it are names of brands and stores to go to – but once I GET to those stores or brand racks, I have no idea which items will look good on myself. Sometimes I’ll take a shot in the dark, and buy one. And then the cycle repeats in the way described above.
So, after a period of simplification in my life, I now go with simple jeans and t-shirts. That’s what I wear all the time. I might wear my one remaining collared shirt when I go to church, but other than that, it’s just jeans and t-shirts.



Roosh –
When all is said and done, you’re probably right – my problems might be too complex and intertwined to unravel in the context of the average American dating scene. It might just not have the setup that I need. What I need is a girlfriend, as paradoxical as that sounds. A girl to just fucking sit there with me and let me explore, like I’m 13 and just hitting puberty. I need to get those developmental neural connections that I missed. The girlfriend experience? I just looked it up - didn't even know that was a thing! Maybe that's the way. I'd definitely be able to afford it in Asia.

If that's the only way, fuck it. Call me Chong.

[Giovonny]

Fuuuucccckkkk!!!

We missed each other last night!

Lets Skype tonight!

I am fascinated with this guy!

3000 approaches and no dates!

I have to speak to this man!

[eradicator]

Oh, do not go on tinder. Unless you are actually in super great shape from hitting the gym and have good beach photos or have good/interesting photos like petting tigers in Bangkok, visiting the Macchu Picchu, at the grand canyon or the Eiffel Tower, I don't think tinder would be something you would excel at because it is so superficial.

You might do well at online dating like okcupid or match.com or eharmony because at least you could showcase some of your personality.

[el mechanico]

Quote:

My style is definitely more direct. I really don’t like indirect – I cringe every time I have to make up something that didn’t happen, or talk about X while I’m really thinking of Y. One of the aspects of confidence is being able to come through an interaction thinking “I lived up to my principles and was true to myself.” As long as I come out of it with that, the rejection doesn’t bother me.

I think you may have a problem here. Direct moves need to be backed up fast and smoothly. Also would require (rapid) escalation experience

[thegreenman]

One other quick note, on online dating.

I've been doing this stuff since I was 17 on Matchmaker. Then match.com, plentyoffish, and several other niche dating sites, including several having to do with yoga and eastern spirituality. Right now I'm using okcupid.com.

On okcupid, here's what happens:
-Sometimes I'll read through the profiles, find one who particularly matches me well, and say something thoughtful and intelligent that references her interests and hobbies
-Sometimes I'll spam 30 girls with "hey" or some variant
-Sometimes I'll try other creative messages, some cocky, some with compliment-and-neg, some that are just totally random. Sometimes I'll just start out with whatever thought happens to be on my mind.

The results are dismal - I barely ever get any replies. When I do, it's usually a very simple, basic, non-flirtatious, answer. One that screams "not interested, but being polite."

WhenEVER I get a response, I always respond back. Every now and then, a girl will reply back 2 or 3 times. Usually by then I'm suggesting meeting in person. Sometimes I'll offer my phone number and tell her to call (they never do). Sometimes I'll ask for her number and call her. When I call, they don't pick up.

Only ONE has actually ever met me in person in the last year. She could tell my situation was one in need of assistance, so she met me at a bookshop with her friend, a "life coach", and they talked to me for like 2 hours. But by the end of it, I could see where it was going - they wanted me to sign up with their network marketing business. And they wanted me to take the Landmark Forum, which I've already taken, back in 2009. It wasn't a date, it was a coaching session and sales pitch.

So yes I'm using online dating, but it's not getting me anywhere. In fact, it's become addictive, and causes me to spend way too much time in front of the computer. I'm actually considering deleting my okcupid profile, so that I can get some time away from the computer!

[Remington]

(06-06-2014 04:11 PM)thegreenman Wrote:  

One other quick note, on online dating.

I've been doing this stuff since I was 17 on Matchmaker. Then match.com, plentyoffish, and several other niche dating sites, including several having to do with yoga and eastern spirituality. Right now I'm using okcupid.com.

On okcupid, here's what happens:
-Sometimes I'll read through the profiles, find one who particularly matches me well, and say something thoughtful and intelligent that references her interests and hobbies
-Sometimes I'll spam 30 girls with "hey" or some variant
-Sometimes I'll try other creative messages, some cocky, some with compliment-and-neg, some that are just totally random. Sometimes I'll just start out with whatever thought happens to be on my mind.

The results are dismal - I barely ever get any replies. When I do, it's usually a very simple, basic, non-flirtatious, answer. One that screams "not interested, but being polite."

WhenEVER I get a response, I always respond back. Every now and then, a girl will reply back 2 or 3 times. Usually by then I'm suggesting meeting in person. Sometimes I'll offer my phone number and tell her to call (they never do). Sometimes I'll ask for her number and call her. When I call, they don't pick up.

Only ONE has actually ever met me in person in the last year. She could tell my situation was one in need of assistance, so she met me at a bookshop with her friend, a "life coach", and they talked to me for like 2 hours. But by the end of it, I could see where it was going - they wanted me to sign up with their network marketing business. And they wanted me to take the Landmark Forum, which I've already taken, back in 2009. It wasn't a date, it was a coaching session and sales pitch.

So yes I'm using online dating, but it's not getting me anywhere. In fact, it's become addictive, and causes me to spend way too much time in front of the computer. I'm actually considering deleting my okcupid profile, so that I can get some time away from the computer!

Pictures play a very significant role in online dating. You need a picture that doesn't suck and plays up to your best features. Plus, make your profile ridiculous. In fact, just go to the "How to get laid on okcupid like a boss" thread and read the shit out of it.

[el mechanico]

(06-06-2014 04:11 PM)thegreenman Wrote:  

One other quick note, on online dating.

I've been doing this stuff since I was 17 on Matchmaker. Then match.com, plentyoffish, and several other niche dating sites, including several having to do with yoga and eastern spirituality. Right now I'm using okcupid.com.

On okcupid, here's what happens:
-Sometimes I'll read through the profiles, find one who particularly matches me well, and say something thoughtful and intelligent that references her interests and hobbies
-Sometimes I'll spam 30 girls with "hey" or some variant
-Sometimes I'll try other creative messages, some cocky, some with compliment-and-neg, some that are just totally random. Sometimes I'll just start out with whatever thought happens to be on my mind.

The results are dismal - I barely ever get any replies. When I do, it's usually a very simple, basic, non-flirtatious, answer. One that screams "not interested, but being polite."

WhenEVER I get a response, I always respond back. Every now and then, a girl will reply back 2 or 3 times. Usually by then I'm suggesting meeting in person. Sometimes I'll offer my phone number and tell her to call (they never do). Sometimes I'll ask for her number and call her. When I call, they don't pick up.

Only ONE has actually ever met me in person in the last year. She could tell my situation was one in need of assistance, so she met me at a bookshop with her friend, a "life coach", and they talked to me for like 2 hours. But by the end of it, I could see where it was going - they wanted me to sign up with their network marketing business. And they wanted me to take the Landmark Forum, which I've already taken, back in 2009. It wasn't a date, it was a coaching session and sales pitch.

So yes I'm using online dating, but it's not getting me anywhere. In fact, it's become addictive, and causes me to spend way too much time in front of the computer. I'm actually considering deleting my okcupid profile, so that I can get some time away from the computer!

Let me commodore your profile for two weeks on POF.

[Travesty]

This could turn into the birth of Ultimate Player Champion Rising From The Ashes.

I predict ban or 200 rep points for a
miracle.