[Dr. Howard]

(05-30-2014 09:24 AM)frenchie Wrote:  

Wikipedia needs citations. I need an RoK article that documents that history of the manosphere. If I can have something like that to cite, it would help me out greatly.

I can't believe i am saying this, but a well written and concise Wiki page with proper citations will do a wonder of good for the sphere. Please take this seriously!

While I admire your willingness to get something credible up I think the better approach is satire. Write a satirical history of the manosphere, have members tweet, post, drop on other sites satirical references like the earthquake and sparta and then use those as the references for the wikipedia article.

[Dagonet]

Manosphere.com should have some good overall information. Not sure if there are other posts that describe the Manosphere's history, but I know Roosh has alluded to it in posts on his site.

I did a loose history (not fully researched though) in my recent post Manosphere Remembrance Day. If you google that it'll pop right up, that post could be helpful.

[Atlantic]

Please include some info on the 100s of guys working in the oil patch who havnt even seen a women in years and are saving all their cash to buy foriegn sex slaves.

[Tengen]

Any history must include the Genesis of Game:

http://therationalmale.com/2013/04/23/th...s-of-game/

Quote:

THE GENESIS

In the beginning was Game. And the game was with the natural alpha, and the Game was alpha. And the natural alphas created the world of pickup, and they saw that it was good.

And they said, “Let us make men in our own image.” And took they some words and swagger and attitude and nuking shit tests, and formed they men; and breathed into their nostrils the breath of cocky-funny, and they created men.

And alpha placed men into the world and told them to dress and keep it; and they did.

And alpha looked upon the men, and said “It is not good for the Men to be alone. I will make him a companion and a helper.” And alpha caused the man to become drunk with wine, and caused him to fall into a deep slumber, and while he was out cold, alpha created women of all shapes and sizes, colors and hair styles. And alpha presented the females to the men, and they said “Whoa, man!” And so this is how women were named, and it is so to this very day.

And the men and the women were together. And alpha looked upon them and said, be fruitful, bang, and multiply. And they did, with great gusto and enthusiasm.

And one day the women were walking in the garden, and a serpent with the face of Betty Friedan slithered up to them, and said; “Did alpha really say to you never to eat the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Feminine Mystique? For he knows that in the day you eat of it, you will become like alpha and men, knowing men and women.”

And the women did eat, and they found that it was pleasant to the taste. And then they offered some to their men; and the men said “but alpha told us never to eat from the Tree. What is this you have done?” And the women said “The Friedanosaurus offered the fruit to me, and I ate, and it was good.” And the men ate.

And then alpha saw the men and said “where are you? what have you done?” And the men answered “We were hiding, because you said not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Feminine Mystique, But the women, whom you gave to us, they tasted the fruit, and gave it to us, and we also ate.”

And alpha said to the men: “Because of this thing you have done, cursed is the ground you will walk on. You will no longer be able to pass shit tests. You will become beta pussyboys. No longer will you be permitted to tend the world; for the women whom I gave you have taken it from you. Your women will become unhaaaaaaappy and will divorce you or marry you nevermore.”

And to the women alpha said: “From this day on you will be miserably unhappy, for there are none to lead you and tell you no. You will do what is right in your own eyes, and satisfaction you shall never know all the days of your lives.”

THE EXODUS AND THE PROPHETS

But came then the prophets, and they were named Ross Jeffries, David DeAngelo, Mystery, and Neil Strauss. And they foretold of a saviour. They told of the way to the woman’s heart and mind. And they did many signs and wonders with women in the taverns and the bar bathrooms and the meeting places and the bedrooms of the land.

And they wrote down the words which the alpha did give them, and it was “The Game”. And “The Game” was read by many men, who marveled at the words that were written, and said “who are these men that even the women spread their legs for them?”

THE GOSPEL OF ROISSY

And the time came for the saviour to come. And he was indeed brought forth, in the City of George and Abraham and Ronaldus Maximus, and alpha decreed that he should be called Roissy. And in the City of George, Roissy began a blog. And men began to hear of the Man Roissy; and they said “Rejoice, for unto us this day has been given in the City of Ronaldus Maximus a guru, who is Roissy the PUA.”

And so it was that Roissy began his public ministry.

And Roissy ascended to the top of Mons Veneris, and took he with him his wives and concubines. And he was absent for a time. And when he returned, written with the finger of alpha and inscribed in pixels on the Blog were the Law, given by alpha, the Sixteen Commandments of Poon. And Roissy gave the Law and the Commandments to the men; and he commanded them: “You shall learn these words and the Law and the Commandments which alpha and which I have this day given to you. You shall write them in your minds, and you shall learn them when you rise up and when you lie down; you shall know them when you eat and when you walk by the way; and you shall teach them to your sons and daughters; and you shall keep them in your mind forever.

“And you shall put these Commandments which I have this day given you into practice. Every day you shall do them, and take care to see that you keep them in spirit and in letter.

“And if you do these things which I have commanded you; then I will bless you with more sex from your women than you can shake a stick at. But if you do not do these things which I have this day commanded you, then woe be unto you men and your sons and your sons’ sons, even to the third and fourth generation; for I have given to you the Law and the Commandments for you and for your good. If my men will turn from their beta ways and will follow my Law and Commandments, then will alpha come to give advice, and will heal your relationships and marriages.”

And Roissy went into his wives and concubines, and he knew them, some more than once in a night. And Roissy came, and came, and came again, and he had many sons and daughters. And these are the sons and daughters of Roissy:

Dalrock of the Metroplex, who brought forth the Doctrine of Serial Monogamy and the Lovestruck Principle, and who sought to bestow marriage and monogamy upon his tribe; and the Dalrock also brought forth many charts and graphs and learned treatises with which to teach his sons and daughters;

Roosh V of the City of Ronaldus Maximus; (also known as the son whom Roissy loved), whose words and deeds are written in the Chronicles of Bang

Keoni of Kamehameha, who brought forth Married Game; and Keoni begat his son Athol the Kiwi who then begat MarriedManSexLife

Rollo Tomassi of the Land of Sunshine, who said “let us reason together” and brought forth The Rational Male

dannyfrom504, the one who said “If I can slay the poon, anyone can”, and he became a great Teacher and was renowned throughout the land

Vox the Genius, who wrote of the men, the politics and the Game

The Badger, who became a scrivener and thinker

The Private Man, the oldest of Roissy’s sons, promoting Charisma “for men of a certain age”

Stingray, who wrote of the true condition

SunshineMary, who taught the women about the Law

And Roissy had many many more sons and daughters who are counted like grains of sand on the beach and stars in the sky.

And Roissy’s sons and daughters themselves had many sons and daughters, each of them talking to one another and learning from one another.

And Roissy gathered his sons and daughters unto him. And Roissy said to them “you will not always have me with you; for soon I will return to alpha. It is good that I will go, because if I do not go, the Manosphere will not come. But when I go, I will send the Manosphere. It will guide you into the facts of male female relationships. It will remind you of all I have taught you. It will comfort you and cause you to waste endless hours in front of a screen learning of men and woman.

“Remember that the world, and many female bloggers with chips on their shoulders, hated me; and they will also hate you. If you suffer for Game’s sake, remember that I am with you. And remember that neither shit tests, nor breakups, nor flaking, nor snowflaking, nor batshit crazy, can ever keep you from your confident and dominant frames.

“But you have seen that which I have done, and read the words I have written unto you and given unto you. And I tell you that these and greater things all of you will do, for the sake of male female love, long lasting marriages, and intact families. I tell you that you will write greater and more insightful things than I, and the Game will reach even to the ends of the earth.

“But this I command you: Go forth and tell all the world of the good news. Go forth and make disciples of the Manosphere. Go forth and teach them all that I have taught you.”

And they saw Roissy ascend to Mons Veneris from whence he came; and they marveled at his words and what they had seen. And they resolved to minister to the beta, the omega, and the feminists who suffered for lack of good relationships and good sex. And they taught the men and women of all that Roissy had said, and of the Law and the Commandments; and many were saved from unhaaaaappy marriages and sluthood and involuntary celibacy.

[runsonmagic]

No, frenchie is right. Enough citations and the page will be legit.

Book citations count more. Red Pill Room published a book with manosphere in the title, which chronicles the various blogs. It was pre-ROK and has some editing problems (I'm told) but might be a good place to start.

[kbell]

That post needs some edits tengen but its hilarious. Sunshine mary, and danny should be removed matt forney called them out on his blog. Dalrock is iffy now as well since he is going against game last time I checked. A parable about mark minter including Top that mutherfockers would be great too. Rollo get on it!

[soup]

Roosh is right: agree and amplify.
In this case, agree and troll.
We have to game feminism.

[RockHard]

(05-30-2014 09:57 AM)kbell Wrote:  

That post needs some edits tengen but its hilarious. Sunshine mary, and danny should be removed matt forney called them out on his blog. Dalrock is iffy now as well since he is going against game last time I checked. A parable about mark minter including Top that mutherfockers would be great too. Rollo get on it!

I don't think Dalrock is against game. I don't think he likes or approves of it but he acknowledges that it works.

[Zep]

I'm wondering about Aboschs' idea ( from the ER thread )not taking girls seriously and the introduction of cat meme's etc. Maybe not on wiki, but a site specifically for ridiculing feminists, one that can be pointed to via wiki under some silly pretense. i.e. the site could be called #NoALLMen (or something ), I would laff hard. Make it soo entertaining that men and women couldn't pry their eyes off of it.

Guys with signs those white signs "I'm a man, and I'm sorry" Alcohol Anonymous style admissions "My name is Robert, and I'm a male, I'm sorry" , don't know, tossing out thoughts.

[ThePrinceOfDixie]

An attempt to create a legitimate article should be attempted. I'm not going to deny that it could prove futile but if it worked it would be a huge step towards mainstream legitimacy, though that might be just as futile as us putting out two cents into Wikipedia.

It still seems like their could be a chance it could in our favor.

Edit: Just after I posted this I refreshed the article and the original slander content had been restored.

We should troll them.

[Roosh]

Let's try Frenchie's plan and actually try to create a useful, balance, legitimate page.

How about this for a plan: focus on one source at a time, update the page, and then move onto a new source. Here's a good authoritative source to start with:

http://takimag.com/article/we_have_nothi...z33DEV4pjM

[Rutting Elephant]

A satirical manosphere wiki page would have to somehow equate PUAs and bronies.

[polymath]

I'd like to see a good, accurate article. Unfortunately, I don't know much about the manosphere or its history.

Roosh, you actually have an opportunity to be taken seriously here by people who would otherwise not hear you out. Yeah, Wikipedia jumps the gun on some limp-wristed issues like renaming the Bradley Manning page as 'Chelsea Manning' but it's still most people's first line of defense when they want to know more about something unfamiliar.

I am not convinced by Mark Potok's categorization of Manosphere discourse as being similar to the white supremacist movement. Potok says, in one of the articles cited on the wiki page,

Quote:

Still, Mr. Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center, says the "manosphere" of men's rights groups – most virulently anti-women – has been growing, and that the Internet has made it possible for members of such groups to feel a sense of community, and gain validation for their ideas, that they may not have had otherwise.

Potok says he's watched a similar phenomenon happen with white supremacy groups, where, 25 years ago, "the average white supremacist in America was a very lonely, isolated alienated person, a guy who had been left behind by the larger society and was essentially standing in his living room shaking his fist at the sky."

With the rise of the Internet, says Potok, "they felt they were part of a movement."

I don't personally feel that I'm lonely or alienated. I've been a leader in pretty much every organization I've been in, I have a great job, I love to socialize and I feel a far greater sense of validation from my work and life than I do from my posts on this site, which mainly serve as an interesting form of entertainment.

This kind of inaccurate "oh, look, I have the answer" mentality can only exist when there's nobody saying, "hey, you're missing some facts." Unfortunately, if there is nobody showing why these judgments are bad, then people will have no reason to refrain from accepting them.

At the same time, I have to admit that it sometimes seems there is more discussion of how pissed off the forum is about feminists, than actual discussion about traveling and socializing here. Jezebel blows because it's a bunch of fat, lame, and/or lonely women complaining about all the same things as other female-oriented media, just in a fatter way. It would suck if sites like this one became simply the male version of that.

frenchie: If you want to cite a paper saying that some of SPLC's 'hate groups' may be selected subjectively for conservatism rather than for hatefulness, here is one: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007...014-9411-x and you can find the full text on http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/...eral-Hate.

[Roosh]

Someone tried to create a manosphere article in 2012 but it got denied. It was pretty extensive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_t...Manosphere

I'm sure there's a lot you can extract from that.

[Foolsgo1d]

I dont take Wikipedia seriously and neither does anyone else who has done a slight bit of research. The citations at the bottom are worth chasing up and the article can be ignored.

[Van Zan]

If the page is going to be used to reverse troll the reader, I'd argue it be done subtly, so as to engage the histrionics of those who would take a Wikipedia article like that at face value. Weave in a reference to some of the greatest hits on ROK and other places, like the "Girls with short hair" article. Use it the mock fat chicks and feminists in much the same way it's done across the community, but within the context of a Wiki, so to their eyes it seems legit. Might be a nice way to give the guys running the sites some extra traffic, and get a little positive out what started as a smear campaign.

[tpiddy]

The knowyourmeme page on the manosphere is not bad. Personally I think the definition of manosphere should be expanded as much as possible and highlight the diversity of opinions and goals of the community. You could make a compelling argument that a somewhat mainstream, PC, site such as artofmanliness.com is part of the manosphere.

It could even be said consumer sites such as Uncrate.com or traditional media such as Playboy or Maxim are related to the manosphere.

[Sumanguru]

I'd like to volunteer this for an intro. If you want to use it let me know and I can get the sources together.


The manosphere is a collection of websites, blogs and forums dedicated to romantic, political, social, physical, and economic issues concerning men. Male self-improvement is another major theme that emerges in much of the manosphere’s literature. Many manosphere websites and blogs are run by men, though not all are. The manosphere is diverse, with writers coming from various age, racial, national and geographic backgrounds. The manosphere can be divided into many different groupings, with Mens Rights Activists, Pick Up Artists, and Men Going Their Own Way being the primary groupings. Though there can be overlap with these groups—for example, MRAs like Obsidian of the website Just Four Guys also practices the “Game” of Pick Up Artists—this overlap cannot be taken for granted, as, for another example, the PUA/self-improvement site Return of Kings has published multiple articles criticizing the MRA movement. The MRA site A Voice for Men does not publish articles on Game. Vox Popoli, who runs a popular game site, is uninterested in the fate of men who are outside his particular sphere of interests. Some MGTOW practice Game, others do not and look down upon the PUA scene. Etc. This nuance is often a point of confusion for critics of the manosphere, who tend to group all manosphere sites under the label of MRA, which is inaccurate and misleading.

[Roosh]

^^ Every sentence or paragraph has to be sourced. None of it can be from your own brain, even if it's fact. It has to be mentioned on an authoritative site that Wikipedia accepts. This is why the Takimag article above a good start, since Wikipedia accepts them as a source.

[runsonmagic]

(05-30-2014 10:21 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Someone tried to create a manosphere article in 2012 but it got denied. It was pretty extensive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_t...Manosphere

I'm sure there's a lot you can extract from that.

Huh, it got declined because it wasn't written in a journalistic tone...

That's interesting.

Next time be sure to quote something and then say "wow, just wow."

[Samseau]

I successfully predicted that the manosphere would be portrayed as an evil group over 2 years ago:

(12-28-2012 06:29 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(12-28-2012 06:25 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Is the manosphere going mainstream in our best interests?

Probably not. The media will spin our lifestyle into a feminist-positive one. I can already see the headlines:

"Men who take advantage of feminism for their own perverted ends"

"The largest growing corner of the web - a place for frustrated men in the dating game - the Manosphere."

"An online cult - calling themselves the manosphere - led by a man listed on SPLC's hate list. More at 9."

[Sumanguru]

(05-30-2014 10:36 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

^^ Every sentence or paragraph has to be sourced. None of it can be from your own brain, even if it's fact. It has to be mentioned on an authoritative site that Wikipedia accepts. This is why the Takimag article above a good start, since Wikipedia accepts them as a source.

What about using direct sources? I can prove that whole paragraph with actual comments/quotes/forum threads from the Manosphere, but right now there is very little "official or academic" literature on the Manosphere to cite.

Also I wanted to see if he wanted to use it or not before digging through all the blog and webpage archives I need to for links for sources.

[Dagonet]

The Futurist's post "The Misandry Bubble" is sometimes credited as a founding document of the Manosphere (differentiating it from the PUA movement that preceded it). From what I've gathered, it should be considered historically significant to the community, almost like a mission statement or thesis. http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/t...ubble.html

Though I guess some Manosphere blogs (like Roosh's original site) preceded this post. It still introduced some of the broader, political topics that the movement would grow into.

[The Beast1]

(05-30-2014 09:42 AM)runsonmagic Wrote:  

No, frenchie is right. Enough citations and the page will be legit.

Book citations count more. Red Pill Room published a book with manosphere in the title, which chronicles the various blogs. It was pre-ROK and has some editing problems (I'm told) but might be a good place to start.

Can you point me to this?

I'm digging through RoK for any relevant citation material, but i'm struggling to find useful material.

Anything would be useful guys.

(05-30-2014 10:15 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Let's try Frenchie's plan and actually try to create a useful, balance, legitimate page.

How about this for a plan: focus on one source at a time, update the page, and then move onto a new source. Here's a good authoritative source to start with:

http://takimag.com/article/we_have_nothi...z33DEV4pjM

^^^^
This is gold. More stuff like this will help the case for a good article. I'm at work right now but I can focus some energy on this over the weekend.

(05-30-2014 10:21 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Someone tried to create a manosphere article in 2012 but it got denied. It was pretty extensive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_t...Manosphere

I'm sure there's a lot you can extract from that.

Nvm, my job just got a helluva lot easier. The reason it got deleted was the lack of citations. I'll take it and sandbox it and dig for some citations.

[runsonmagic]

(05-30-2014 10:54 AM)frenchie Wrote:  

(05-30-2014 09:42 AM)runsonmagic Wrote:  

No, frenchie is right. Enough citations and the page will be legit.

Book citations count more. Red Pill Room published a book with manosphere in the title, which chronicles the various blogs. It was pre-ROK and has some editing problems (I'm told) but might be a good place to start.

Can you point me to this?

Boom: The Manosphere: A New Hope for Masculinity by Ian Ironwood

The blogger would probably help you if you asked him. This is his site.