[nek]

I don't get it. If I saw a girl trying to lose weight and get smarter on something I think that'd be great. I have more examples than I can count over the last few months where women either mocked or outright berated guys for self improvement.

[Col. Tigh]

For most of human history, being animals, what you were born with was the maximum you could achieve. Therefore, females want to ensure their sperm donor(s) are the very best genetic material they could receive. Self-improvement is not a realistic aspect for most mammals to achieve.

[Parlay44]

Because they think you'll leave them for a girl with better tits.

[Jukes]

Keyword is self. If it does not benefit them, then it is stupid or dangerous. An anecdote is I got in an argument with my Grandma about my running. It is an achievement to me since I have not use an asthma pump since 7th grade. Instead of recieving praise, I get critize. Got to the point she threaten to slap me (not the 1st time) and I say go ahead. Resulting in me looking bad. Now where was all this concern when I was younger doing multiple errands in the blistering heat because I can get it done quicker even though she had a car?

[Brodiaga]

Who gives a fuck if they are against it?

[WestIndianArchie]

(05-26-2014 09:20 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

Who gives a fuck if they are against it?

People looking to understand them.

WIA

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(05-26-2014 09:20 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

Who gives a fuck if they are against it?

Because we're here to analyze what makes women tick and I think Nek has raised an important question. And I think I have an answer.

When I've made major strides in improving myself, women have called me "vain," "self-involved" and "self-absorbed." What those specific criticisms reveal is they're saying that instead of serving myself I should have been serving them.*

Women think instinctively men are workhorses here to build things for them and bring home the bacon, so to speak. Men did build everything they use, so it's an unconscious feeling. When men become self-directed, it bothers them because they instinctively know if all men behaved this way society would crumble and they'd be the ones screwed the most. (Women are far more dependent on modern conveniences and societal protections than men.)

How would a society last if it was full of a bunch of players whose focus was directed at themselves rather than invested in the society? It wouldn't. That's why it benefits women more to have a sexless drones in their midst working away, instead of a bunch of Don Juans doing minimal work and getting maximum rewards. And that's why the idea of a PUA community bothers them.

The irony is that feminism created this situation. It's a response to the changing dating market. But just as liberals ignore statistics when it suits them, they ignore the altered dating market, expecting men to behave as if it's still 1955, when women definitely aren't acting like that.

*Ironically, women have a magazine called Self. When it's them, being self-directed is seen as empowering. With men, it's vain or suspicious. Think they gender stereotype much?

[Ziltoid]

While were at it; why are women so adamantly against female self-improvement?

[Truth Teller]

Some men are ardently against others improving as well, and these tend to be the PUA Hate guys. Anyway, the point is that whenever people improve themselves, you're forced to confront the fact that you're remaining stagnant while other people get ahead. People don't like to be reminded of the fact that they're stagnant.

[Parlay44]

There's two parts to this answer.

1. Because it takes time and attention away from them.

2. They like to keep the status quo.

If you were to magically make more money without affecting 1&2 they'd be ok with that.

[soup]

They are against us improving, but we are for them improving.

If by improving, you mean looking/being healthier, and making better decisions, and having a better disposition.

[Kingsley Davis]

(05-26-2014 10:33 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

There's two parts to this answer.

1. Because it takes time and attention away from them.

2. They like to keep the status quo.

If you were to magically make more money without affecting 1&2 they'd be ok with that.

"Because it takes time and attention away from them."

I'm familiar with a few pussy ass herbs whose significant others complain about their beer bellies but bitch and moan when i stop by to coax their beta bux to come out and get some exercise.

[Bacchus]

A major part of the opposition derives from female ignorance of the work it takes for a man to be successful in the sexual market. In order to succeed in oversaturated market, a man needs to learn:

-how to dress
-how to talk
-how to text
-where to bring a date
-how to escalate
-how to fuck

Those skills aren't developed without conscious effort. Each one is a lesson in itself, but all of them are necessary to complete the transition from first meeting to bedroom (and to keep her around afterword). These game skills mentioned above are in addition to the other markers of male status, such as a defined body, wealth, or micro-fame, all of which require effort as well.

The clip below, from the 40-Year-Old Virgin, involves the titular virgin learning just one of these necessary game skills, in this case learning how to maximize his physical appearance (Few men will even have a critical conversation about improving one aspect of their game, and even fewer will follow up on the advice).

You think this was an accident?

To many women, it should be an accident. Because a woman's value was decided by accidental factors beyond her control, i.e. her genetics.

Blessed with good genetics, an attractive girl could dress like a slob, talk like an idiot, send rambling texts and still get sex and male attention (and, in fact, many do follow this plan to success in America by minimizing their appearance with ugly hair and tattoos, talking constantly about their jobs and favorite TV shows, and sending text messages written on a middle-school level, provided they meet a certain standard of looks). Crucially, they cannot achieve a fulfilling relationship, but, in their minds, that's the man's fault somehow. And an ugly girl who's developed a pleasant personality still could not outcompete a better-looking girl. A woman's access to sex and validation doesn't really depend on any skill. For her, self-improvement is unnecessary.

So she thinks it's only fair that male value should be determined by similar accidental factors. That men should follow the same rules as women in the sexual market. But value is created differently for men and women because men and women are different. So when a man tries to better his lot in life through a program of self-improvement, she considers it unnecessary for him, and that it's odd that he's even trying.

[dads]

Someone made a point along these lines in an article a while back, but women basically don't like seeing behind the curtain. They want to believe that the perfect guy appears out of nowhere and says the words that make her tingle because he just knows that's what he should say. The guy posting on here, commenting on Heartiste or reading Bang destroys the fantasy.

[Biologist]

I think that this is a very important topic - one that is often overlooked in the manosphere. There are some very insightful replies that have already been posted.

It seems that there are two main reasons why women are generally so against a man improving himself:

1) Because the focus is on the man obtaining something for himself, rather than the man providing for women/a woman.

2) Because women want to think that the man she is having sex with is NATURALLY successful, talented, good-looking, fit, intelligent, a good conversationalist etc. This is because, either consciously or subconsciously, she wants her children to inherit these preferable traits. If they have been artificially learned by the man, her children will not inherit them.

[J DOE]

http://www.returnofkings.com/4853/why-th...-be-creepy

I don't think it's something they're consciously doing.

[Kieran]

(05-27-2014 01:01 AM)dads Wrote:  

Someone made a point along these lines in an article a while back, but women basically don't like seeing behind the curtain. They want to believe that the perfect guy appears out of nowhere and says the words that make her tingle because he just knows that's what he should say. The guy posting on here, commenting on Heartiste or reading Bang destroys the fantasy.

I think this is probably closest to the truth. Also, I would guess someone focused on fitness, nutrition, learning languages, building a business / career, etc. would be kind of boring to be around compared to the bad boy type many swoon for.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Because women, at least coddled Western women, are generally solipsistic and unable to comprehend that their own reality of things "just happening" is not applicable to the whole world. Thus, seeing what goes on behind the scenes is completely alien to them.

If I could engage in some geekiness for the sake of comparison, it's very much like the proverbial human in the H.P. Lovecraft story witnessing an Old One and going mad on sight, or at least being overwhelmed with terror. It's so far removed from the world that they live in that their minds literally can't comprehend it without either bursting or recoiling in disgust.

[2Wycked]

Women are not against male self-improvement, they are against their own self-improvement. Nothing is more threatening than your competitors bettering themselves.

[puckerman]

Self-improvement is about taking responsibility. Women despise the concept of taking responsibility. When women see men take responsibility, it reminds them that they make the choice not take responsibility.

[Mage]

Maybe women are against self improvement just because they generally verbally detest everything that they actually support with spreading their legs for.

[AnonymousBosch]

Solipsism.

When they see you improving yourself, you're creating awareness of their own personal stagnation, which makes them uncomfortable.

To remove the discomfort, they would have to similarly improve themselves, which takes hard work and effort, so they spin the hamster wheel to find an easier resolution.

The result: they criticise you to try to train you to see improving yourself as a bad thing so you stop, which removes their source of discomfort, which is all they care about. Not you, or your happiness.

When you recognise petty, toxic people like this, minimise their involvement in your life.

[Foolsgo1d]

I would say the only women who are against a mans self improvement did not like him in the first place. I remember some female co-workers taking an interest as to why I started to go to the gym after 6-7 months but because I did not aspire to "like" them I was seen as vain and "just a typical guy!.

If she likes you then her bitch shields wont go up as strong. Unless you know you are going to be rid of her then thats a whole different thing.

[bojangles]

They are against it because they don't want your value to be more than 2 points higher than theirs.

[Onto]

(05-26-2014 10:31 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

While were at it; why are women so adamantly against female self-improvement?

Because self-improvement is associated with egotism and the feminine principal says there should be not egotism in the world. To self- improve is to set yourself apart from the others.

There's a lot of good posts here already. If I were to put into words also it would be like this.

Masculine - Identity is the real, separate from the others, and it's ok to be better than them (an ego).

Feminine - Identity is not the real. Collectiveness and wholeness are, and there should be no self-interest (egotism) in the world.

When women see a man acting out of self-interest (bettering himself) they see it as egotism. I always laugh when they say they want a man who is driven, ambitious, and takes charge, but at the same time they don't want him to be a self-interested person (an ego)

What they want is contradictory. They initially are attracted and fall in love with his masculinity but later try to change it and make him subscribe to the feminine vision of how things should be.