[XPQ22]

If every man is a "10", how will they be able to gloat that they got a better deal than some other girl?

Reminds me of a time I posed a question to a woman: "So why do you spend so much on shoes?"

"Because I can't let some bitch on the train see me with shoes that aren't as good as hers."

Though women might like it if Western men were overall somewhat "better" in the abstract, they're not going to encourage any one man to improve himself. It doesn't materially make their lives better in any way, as they can pretty much always trade up if they want to. The only guys girls get "oneitis" for are the ones already there.

And about the only time you'll hear a woman harping about a man improving himself is in the context of a marriage or LTR where she realizes that her options are more constrained, and she's trying to change him. Outside of that context it's not really relevant.

Quote:

Because from their perspective, most of the men involved on it are just fake losers. And since self-improvement isn't part of their constitution (it doesn't have to be, remember, they have vaginas, so they will always be valuable in the SMP), those fake losers will always be fake losers, so fuck them. The "real men" don't need that Manosphere bullshit.

You sometimes see similar commentary from "blue pill" men in the comments section on Roosh blog posts and elsewhere, touting their intrinsic "man-ness."

"That Manosphere shit is for losers. I'm a 'real man' and always have been. I know how to treat a lady."

[Private Man]

I wrote about something related to this awhile ago:

https://theprivateman.wordpress.com/2012...line-fail/

[Bear Hands]

(07-19-2016 08:58 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  

It not even male self improvement. My wife has gotten some flak from the older women in her social circle for her efforts to improve her physical shape, with other female relatives claiming that she is "thin enough already". It is a technically correct comment but misses the point which is that she is not trying to be "thinner" but to be in better shape.

When you witness those interactions it is pretty clear why self improvement bothers people regardless of gender. Someone else talking about going to the gym, practicing public speaking, doing educational reading, or anything along those lines reminds them that they themselves are not doing anything like that and it makes them uncomfortable.

Anecdote: one of the people who was critical of my wifes exercising suddenly became supportive after taking up an exercise regime themselves. It is nothing more than projected feelings of inferiority in most cases.

With men you can add the additional fear that they will no longer be in his league and will get replaced with a skinnier, younger model.

Good for your wife for keeping in shape and inspiring some others to get their shit together. I see the end result of these "thin enough already" types several days a week, and it's not pretty. They either die early or they become bone-thin weaklings using walkers because they let their muscles atrophy into nothing in front of the television in retirement. I have seen few things sadder than an old person so weak they strain to lift anything more than 2 pounds. Aging should be treated like a degenerative disease that takes constant effort to hold back. The "thin enough already" behavior does not just affect SMV, but all quality of life, eventually.

[Oilrig]

It's been covered somewhat before; but most women don't have it in them, the whatever it takes mentality, to get in great shape or become super successful in their career. Most women (and many men) would rather lazily go on a crash diet, and complain about their poor salary, instead of doing the hard work of eating healthy and working out, and working hard at their jobs to get a promotion or switch companies for higher pay.

I've dated many girls who complained about how they could never lose weight, yet they would never work out and always eat fatty foods. Same goes for female coworkers and friends, constantly complain about their salaries and job titles, yet would never go above and beyond at work or look for other jobs that paid higher. And if you offer them common sense advice and solutions, they look at you like you're nuts.

Since most women don't possess that innate, whatever it takes mentality, they get mad when men try to improve themselves through natural means.

[El Padrone]

The other day I was with Robert Greene and 50's book, The 50th Law. A woman saw it, asked what it was and when I told her, she basically hissed.
Should of slapped her around but she was a client.

So yes, I think they're against it because it raises your stock, and in time, will leave them with an empty nest, where you used to be. Forever out of their useless orbit

[eljeffster]

(05-27-2014 04:26 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

WNB, knees to spikey, plus vagteeth look painful.

[Delta]

For the most part I don't know what you guys are talking about in this thread. No woman in my life has ever said anything negative about me lifting, playing sports, eating healthy, or working to advance my career. I've actually found that they're quite encouraging with that kind of stuff.

Learning game, sure, I can absolutely see women reacting negatively to that, so I never mention it. Learning how to appeal to women is of course "creepy" because girls want a guy who is naturally smooth, not a former frustrated incel chump modeling his behavior off of what he read on some websites. But game is only one facet of self-improvement. In general, women (at least the ones I've known) have far more respect for guys who work toward what they want.

[Private Man]

(07-19-2016 05:25 PM)Delta Wrote:  

For the most part I don't know what you guys are talking about in this thread. No woman in my life has ever said anything negative about me lifting, playing sports, eating healthy, or working to advance my career. I've actually found that they're quite encouraging with that kind of stuff.

Learning game, sure, I can absolutely see women reacting negatively to that, so I never mention it. Learning how to appeal to women is of course "creepy" because girls want a guy who is naturally smooth, not a former frustrated incel chump modeling his behavior off of what he read on some websites. But game is only one facet of self-improvement. In general, women (at least the ones I've known) have far more respect for guys who work toward what they want.

What's in bold covers the gist of it.

[Bear Hands]

(07-19-2016 05:25 PM)Delta Wrote:  

For the most part I don't know what you guys are talking about in this thread. No woman in my life has ever said anything negative about me lifting, playing sports, eating healthy, or working to advance my career.

I had a FWB a few years ago when I was still 300+ pounds who told me not to lose too much weight when she noticed I was slimming down.

I get a little embarrassed whenever I remember her because she was overweight herself with a smoking habit and drinking problems. I suspect that behavior was linked to the fact she was a 4 (I'm probably being generous for my own ego), in the fast line to the wall, and I was the only man in her life that wasn't a complete loser. She was a Jezebel reader, though I was unaware of the significance at the time. When I broke it off with her because of her near-bi-polar behavior toward me, she actually said, "I never get the guys that I want!" She provided no value to me other than pussy and some emotional validation. I believe she wanted me to stay at that place in my life because she was unwilling to improve with me and knew I would be able to do better than her.

I cannot speak for what the others in this thread have experienced, but the trend is this behavior comes from low SMV women. I freely admit that I was at one point so low that I really thought I was doomed to fuck uglies and fatties if I did not want to masturbate forever. I could not even get what most guys on the forum would consider slump busters at the time. This stuff is much more common when a man lacks the ability to pull from higher on the scale. Loser women aim for the best loser they can get, and want to keep him that way.

You probably are dealing with higher quality women who worry less about their prospects with men, so you don't deal with this kind of behavior. The kind of women I can pull now do not discourage my efforts.

Thank God I had the sense not to make that woman more than a FWB. I actually found RoK because, in my anger at her, I googled something about why I had to put up with so much shit for such mediocre pussy.

[R Smoov]

Let them say whatever they want.

Life's about making them say "Wow, I fucked up" once they see you pull up in the best representation of yourself.

[Delta]

(07-19-2016 09:22 PM)Bear Hands Wrote:  

You probably are dealing with higher quality women who worry less about their prospects with men, so you don't deal with this kind of behavior. The kind of women I can pull now do not discourage my efforts.

I think that gets down to the root of it. I used to be extremely low on the totem pole as well, but I always chose prolonged celibacy over keeping unattractive, low-quality women in my life. The only girls I've dated for a prolonged period have been hard-working, high-achieving types who would never let themselves become even a little chubby or unfit. Needless to say, a girl like that would expect the same out of her man.

Attitude toward self-improvement probably depends more on the type of person than on gender. I could just as easily see a fat, greasy, cheeto-breath loser guy becoming insecure if his obese girlfriend starts getting her act together. I usually love to make sweeping generalizations, but claiming that "women are against male self-improvement" is way too broad of a brush even for me.

[Easy_C]

You made me think of another point.

Ideally women SHOULD feel some pressure to compete for you and to work for your interest. If you make them feel that way you will have less faking, better sex, and some nice perks like good cooking. If you're really good you can get them to buy you stuff.

One of the guys I worked with in the Army(deaceased now, unfortunately) used to make online accounts whilr he was deployed and game women into sending him goody boxes. There's a few guys Inlnow of back here who got women to buy then vacations and vehicles.

Only exception I can think of is if you are marrying her with intent to procreate and even then she should feel obligated to make herself the best possible wife.

Remember that despite what most women say it is still in their nature to conform to a strong male. They should always have some things to do for you and love doing things for you....if that changes it means you need to start treating the relationship as one thats in the rough.

[Tayo]

Women and some kinds of men (you guys call them "betas") are against self-improvement when it comes to improving your sexual value.

[El Chinito loco]

(07-20-2016 03:01 AM)Tayo Wrote:  

Women and some kinds of men (you guys call them "betas") are against self-improvement when it comes to improving your sexual value.

MGTOW in many ways is anti self improvement which is why it's appealing to some men. You don't have to work for anything or take any responsibility in your life. You can just twiddle your thumbs in the dark waiting for that moment when MGTOWs will really take over or whatever nonsense that they believe.

[HOD]

Its a way formal way to control men, in order to boost there average value.

If you ever get chance, to observe San Francisco, LAX or DC. You basically have fat average chicks, with a license and free rain, to simply talk shit to dudes in open public, simply because they can.

Its like being a feminist bully, they enjoy bullying men. Because they can.

If a dude starts lifting, making bank, driving a Bentley, has a beach house and travels the world. She will react with fear, because he basically broke free from the feminist matrix.

There looking for a shortcut, and guess what? its a dude there looking to control and manipulate.

Its easier to control a dude, that isn't in to reading and self improvement,

SJW chicks know they have very little luck trying to control a dude that has travel and seen the world.

[Organicman]

When you tell someone that you are going to improve yourself (self development) , it means you are going to rise to a new level in life hence the person you told feels vulnerable and distance cause the current you will die. Eg. Become a man. Most humans (betas/SJW/Feminists) will never process through this transition hence why these people always act like children!