[Daddy]

It's just the women in western societies, where everyone is selfish and live for themselves. Whatever you gain, you take it from another person, because we're all in competition.

Foreign women actually push you to improve because they think they will benefit from it in the long run.

[funkyzeit]

Becoming a better man means she has to become a better woman to keep you. And since their best asset is looks, they know that at their prime they can do very little to improve themselves since they hit their max. They want to keep your balls in their possession so anything that sabotages that is attacked and shamed.

[Fortis]

Hmmm, depends on the woman. My mother is sort of the one who got me into game and self improvement. I was complaining about how lame a lot of girls are and she said to me, "fortis, you need to work on your game."

Lol. When your mom says you need game, then you know it's true. She's also buying us tickets to see tony Robbins at some point in the future.

But as to other women: I think you guys covered it when you said that a lot of female value is genetically determined.

[Vicious]

Excelsior has a very thorough post on this. I've linked it in the "best of..." thread.

[rudebwoy]

Some classic lines from ex girlfriends.
"I will let you know when you are getting fat" - as she feeds me Hagen daz ice cream and hot apple pie.
"Wow, you go to the gym 3x a week" - as she feels my shoulder.

Constant improvement is a must for modern man.

[Solus]

It's not just women who are against self improvement.

Go on, start working out or learning game. See how many of your so called male "friends" support you doing so and how many passive aggressively scoff at the idea.

(I understand that after taking the red pill the aim is to surround yourself with like minded winners but for those just starting out I can't have been the only one who experienced this)

[Blunt]

I agree with some of the posters above that some women do try to support your advancement.

FSU girls that I've dated have often kind of pushed me to improve further. I never actually take their "advice" directly, or I lie and say I had already been doing it, to maintain hand, but there is nothing like feedback from an attractive woman to spur you into action.

But yes, some insecure western girls discourage you from improving beyond their reach, but it really depends on their own insecurities.

I actually think it is more related to the level of insecurities the woman has than whether she is Western or not.

[la_mode]

They really aren't, provided it's a narrow scope of self-improvement.

For the sake of improving himself, it's fine for a man to be aspire to be educated, career-minded, or involved in his community, etc.

What they don't like, is when guys care about improving their looks, physique, attitude, style.

[Pantheon Dweller]

(05-27-2014 05:31 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

Solipsism.

When they see you improving yourself, you're creating awareness of their own personal stagnation, which makes them uncomfortable.

To remove the discomfort, they would have to similarly improve themselves, which takes hard work and effort, so they spin the hamster wheel to find an easier resolution.

The result: they criticise you to try to train you to see improving yourself as a bad thing so you stop, which removes their source of discomfort, which is all they care about. Not you, or your happiness.

When you recognise petty, toxic people like this, minimise their involvement in your life.

Exactly !
I wrote about it two weeks ago :

Quote:

As you work on yourself, you will encounter more and more of these people, your improvement makes them feel uneasy, working on an area of life they forgone questions the whole thinking scheme they built over time, this is painful. They will try to make it stop, they will do their best to change your mind.

And that's for most people, if the person trying to hinder your improvement is a girl you're dating there's one more process, she thinks (and is probably right) that since you already got her, you aren't improving for her but for other girls, she thinks that you might want to trade up.

[AnonymousBosch]

(05-27-2014 03:00 PM)Pantheon Dweller Wrote:  

And that's for most people, if the person trying to hinder your improvement is a girl you're dating there's one more process, she thinks (and is probably right) that since you already got her, you aren't improving for her but for other girls, she thinks that you might want to trade up.

Exactly. It's not unique to women.

I was talking to another actor about how the average person seem to passive-aggressively hate successful people, which is why I've never mentioned my music or acting gig at my place of work.

He put it beautifully, something like this:

"So: you're in your train, waiting at the station, looking out the window at the train parked next to you. You make uncomfortable eye contact with a person in the next carriage, who looks as bored and impatient as you're feeling. Then suddenly you hear a hiss of brakes and a clunk, and there's that sensation of movement, and for a few moments you can't exactly tell which train is moving. Is it theirs, or yours? Then it finally becomes clear - it's the other train, and you see that look of relief on the other passengers face as it speeds away from you, leaving you sitting there, slightly-pissed off, with the sense it should have been YOUR train."

This resentment will *always* exist, so you have to have the personality skills to negate it, or society will conspire to cut you down. A while back I was discussing how I found Jennifer Lawrence's 'clumsiness' affected performance and that her 'fat positive' and 'all women are beautiful' statements seemed at odds with her figure and photoshopped pictures. She's just using psychological tactics to win over women to keep her a bankable movie star: Actor Game.

[Pantheon Dweller]

(05-27-2014 03:27 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

"So: you're in your train, waiting at the station, looking out the window at the train parked next to you. You make uncomfortable eye contact with a person in the next carriage, who looks as bored and impatient as you're feeling. Then suddenly you hear a hiss of brakes and a clunk, and there's that sensation of movement, and for a few moments you can't exactly tell which train is moving. Is it theirs, or yours? Then it finally becomes clear - it's the other train, and you see that look of relief on the other passengers face as it speeds away from you, leaving you sitting there, slightly-pissed off, with the sense it should have been YOUR train."

The train analogy represent very well most people mind scheme, they see the result (you becoming successful) and think it's unfair they don't enjoy the same result, they don't take into account the hard work you put in it, for them it depends on luck, like for the train.

(05-27-2014 03:27 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

I was talking to another actor about how the average person seem to passive-aggressively hate successful people, which is why I've never mentioned my music or acting gig at my place of work.

I've witnessed it too, I've been astonished to see people resented me for investing my extra money instead of buying more stuff.
It is a sad day when we have to hide progress.

[Off The Reservation]

I have noticed some women will subtly go to war with these efforts. Watch this as a major red flag. You want to eat better and get healthy and get a gift of some old habit foods.

[infowarrior1]

Imagine the most despicable in terms of character most utterly inept human male changing to become the best of the best in morality and competence and rising to become the most powerful men in the history of the earth.

Imagine what people remember you as but you being utterly different. Someone they kick around now becomes their superior. How would they think?

[RBerkley]

Answer: It's because when a man improves himself, he has more options, and she fears competition from other women, especially from the hot 18-year-old chick next door who is an adult, and not a 21-year-old "child".

This is mostly a feminist-SJW-Western thing though...Many other women will be happy to have an ambitious man...It's mainly the empowered women who feel intimidated by their man looking more appealing for the ladies on the street.

[Dantes]

Women aren't conditioned for self-improvement. Hence, they don't understand it nor do they give much thought to it. Their success in life is predicated on their looks and some social skills. There is only so much they can improve upon their beauty. Therefore, self-improvement is not something that propels them forward.

In men, they are concerned with the finished product, not how he has arrived there.

[Barron]

(07-19-2016 06:33 AM)RBerkley Wrote:  

This is mostly a feminist-SJW-Western thing though...Many other women will be happy to have an ambitious man...It's mainly the empowered women who feel intimidated by their man looking more appealing for the ladies on the street.

This is what I couldn't wrap my head around. Looking back on my six year relationship, when I decided to head back to university and finish my degree via night classes while working full-time in the day things began to go from peaceful to argumentative to hostile the more progress I made.

I didn't understand what her problem was. Did she want to be with a loser or a man that wanted more for himself and his family? Why couldn't she see that me becoming better and more valuable meant a better life for her??

Only western women take issue with this because relationships between men and women in the west aren't about family or the long-term to them. To the western female modern relationships are only about how they feel in the moment. Why think about tomorrow with one man when there's fifty more waiting to be with you right now? Why settle when you can "Have It All"!?

[El Chinito loco]

(07-19-2016 06:47 AM)Dantes Wrote:  

Women aren't conditioned for self-improvement. Hence, they don't understand it nor do they give much thought to it. Their success in life is predicated on their looks and some social skills. There is only so much they can improve upon their beauty. Therefore, self-improvement is not something that propels them forward.

In men, they are concerned with the finished product, not how he has arrived there.

They often mistake life experiences with "self improvement" that's why they go all crazy with the finding myself shit that ends up just being a prolonged ride on the cock carousel. At the end of the day it's all basic nihilism combined with narcissism.

Experiences mean nothing for self improvement if a person is not capable of self analysis about their own behavior and life choices.

Most women are completely incapable of this type of self reflection because it's ego destroying. I believe it is mostly a masculine thing with very few women capable of long term disciplined shifts in their pattern of behavior or personality.

[EvanWilson]

(05-26-2014 10:31 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

While were at it; why are women so adamantly against female self-improvement?

What, you mean work for something?

Working for something would also imply that you 'have to do something that someone else wants'; i.e. even if it benefits you, some of the value or use would only be if someone else wants it also and they do not want to feel like they ever do anything for anyone else.

As an example, losing weight or maintaining a thin body. While the woman would benefit from not being overweight, it would also be something that other people, especially men, would like to see and want to see, so in a sense it would be like being told what to do by other people. And you can't have that if you want to always do what you want and be impulsive all the time.

[EvanWilson]

(07-19-2016 06:54 AM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

(07-19-2016 06:33 AM)RBerkley Wrote:  

This is mostly a feminist-SJW-Western thing though...Many other women will be happy to have an ambitious man...It's mainly the empowered women who feel intimidated by their man looking more appealing for the ladies on the street.

This is what I couldn't wrap my head around. Looking back on my six year relationship, when I decided to head back to university and finish my degree via night classes while working full-time in the day things began to go from peaceful to argumentative to hostile the more progress I made.

I didn't understand what her problem was. Did she want to be with a loser or a man that wanted more for himself and his family? Why couldn't she see that me becoming better and more valuable meant a better life for her??

Only western women take issue with this because relationships between men and women in the west aren't about family or the long-term to them. To the western female modern relationships are only about how they feel in the moment. Why think about tomorrow with one man when there's fifty more waiting to be with you right now? Why settle when you can "Have It All"!?

The problem is that if you get improving, it also means your options are improving, especially in SMV, meaning she would have to improve or risk you going elsewhere.

BUT, if she tears you down, and your SMV declines, then she has all of the power and can walk all over you. Of course, the problem is that after a while most women would use the excuse that your SMV has declined, you are 'a loser' and then divorce rape you.

It could also be a test, that you pass by refusing to listen to her idiotic reasons as to why you should not improve yourself.

[Easy_C]

It not even male self improvement. My wife has gotten some flak from the older women in her social circle for her efforts to improve her physical shape, with other female relatives claiming that she is "thin enough already". It is a technically correct comment but misses the point which is that she is not trying to be "thinner" but to be in better shape.

When you witness those interactions it is pretty clear why self improvement bothers people regardless of gender. Someone else talking about going to the gym, practicing public speaking, doing educational reading, or anything along those lines reminds them that they themselves are not doing anything like that and it makes them uncomfortable.

Anecdote: one of the people who was critical of my wifes exercising suddenly became supportive after taking up an exercise regime themselves. It is nothing more than projected feelings of inferiority in most cases.

With men you can add the additional fear that they will no longer be in his league and will get replaced with a skinnier, younger model.

[Easy_C]

(07-19-2016 07:09 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

They often mistake life experiences with "self improvement" that's why they go all crazy with the finding myself shit that ends up just being a prolonged ride on the cock carousel. At the end of the day it's all basic nihilism combined with narcissism.

To be fair life experiences can be an important part of self improvement. You know the quote from Fight Club about how "everyhting else gets turned down after fighting"? That also applies in varying degrees to experiences like hurling down a cliffside at 60mph, surfing a 30 foot wave, or spending a month on the Appalachian trail.

The mistake they make is that they equate challenging and dangerous experiences like that with the sex vacations they like to have.

Quote:

Hmmm, depends on the woman. My mother is sort of the one who got me into game and self improvement. I was complaining about how lame a lot of girls are and she said to me, "fortis, you need to work on your game."

Lol. When your mom says you need game, then you know it's true. She's also buying us tickets to see tony Robbins at some point in the future.

But as to other women: I think you guys covered it when you said that a lot of female value is genetically determined.

How on earth did your mom ever get to be that way? She sounds a lot smarter than most.

[C-Note]

When women reach 30 and their SMV and fertility start to decline, they need to know that there are beta males with low SMV/confidence around who will wife them up and provision them. If Western men suddenly get into a big self-improvement kick, in fitness, style, confidence, and charisma, it makes the women feel anxious because they know it will be harder for them to find some man who will take care of them.

[Dalaran1991]

(07-19-2016 09:36 AM)C-Note Wrote:  

When women reach 30 and their SMV and fertility start to decline, they need to know that there are beta males with low SMV/confidence around who will wife them up and provision them. If Western men suddenly get into a big self-improvement kick, in fitness, style, confidence, and charisma, it makes the women feel anxious because they know it will be harder for them to find some man who will take care of them.

Well, Australia begs to differ

[AboveAverageJoe]

Because other than smoke and mirrors women have very few avenues for self improvement; none of them being easy. Anytime you are doing something to improve yourself it makes others come to the self-realization that they are doing nothing to improve themselves. Its a crabs in a barrel mentality. Also in a relationship when one person male or female is doing something to improve themselves, the writing is on the wall. It is time to upgrade and the other person instinctively knows it.

[Sumanguru]

I actually just made this post a few days ago, when someone asked why the Manosphere is so hated:

Quote:

For a long time, I had similar questions. If women *really* want to date masculine, fit, decisive men who can hold a good conversation and make them laugh, then why is men studying to become that kind of man a bad thing?

Women love "naturalness" and hate fakes. They love power and hate weakness. They will fuck a thug in a heart beat. But a guy they think is pretending to be a thug? Naw. That pretending looks artificial and weak to them. (This is an important distinction. Do most men demand authenticity before putting our dicks in? Right, of course not).

I think women don't believe that men can learn to become men. They think you either *are* a man, or you're not. Which, when you think of their experience, makes sense--besides being born with a vagina, what do you have to accomplish to be considered a woman?

Hence, to most women, "Game" is men pretending they are something that they aren't. If you pay attention, when they talk about "Game" its usually within the context of men "lying" instead of just being charming/funny/jerkish. I think that's why all these feminist-leaning media outlets are OK shitting on the Manosphere (the one resource many men have for learning how to be a man). Because from their perspective, most of the men involved on it are just fake losers. And since self-improvement isn't part of their constitution (it doesn't have to be, remember, they have vaginas, so they will always be valuable in the SMP), those fake losers will always be fake losers, so fuck them. The "real men" don't need that Manosphere bullshit.