[Samseau]

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archi...e-homeless

Quote:

Right now, there are dozens of major U.S. cities that have already passed laws against feeding the homeless. As you will read about below, in some areas of the country you can actually be fined hundreds of dollars for just trying to give food to a hungry person. I know that sounds absolutely insane, but this is what America is turning into. Communities all over the country are attempting to "clean up the streets" by making it virtually illegal to either be homeless or to help those that are homeless. Instead of spending more money on programs to assist the homeless, local governments are bulldozing tent cities and giving homeless people one way bus tickets out of town.

As the depression rolls on, the men who got left out of the marketplace are now being treated as vermin. The same kind of laws used to prevent pest control are now used against men who have nothing left.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/13...16519.html

Illegal to feed the poor:

Quote:

But on Wednesday, the Jimenezes said that without warning, they and four other volunteers were accosted by police, fined and told that they could be thrown in jail if they continue their program, according to NBC News.

Each of the six was fined $373 and were given 10 days to either pay up or go to court.

"We’re going to court," Debbie Jimenez, 52, a former auto parts store manager, told NBC News. "The police don’t like it. But how can we turn our backs on the hungry? We can’t."

The police, however, say there’s more to the story.

Daytona Beach Police Chief Mike Chitwood told NBC that the couple had been warned, and that locals have been complaining about homeless people defecating and urinating in the park.

"We've always enforced it," Chitwood told WFTV of the force’s consistency in enforcing laws against feeding in public. "This got so big, it was posted on YouTube, it was really brought to our attention that, hey, things are really out of control on Manatee Island."

So because a few homeless men are seen shitting in public now all of them must starve.

And this is occurring in the most democrat, "pro poor" cities in America. Of course democrats never cared about the poor, they just use it as an excuse to take more money from the working class.

Tent cities are also being bulldozed (if they are discovered):

http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/14/pf/camde...l?iid=Lead

Quote:

Over the past few weeks, flyers had warned people in the tent cities that this was going to happen. Yet it still seemed surreal to many of them that their communities were about to be demolished for good. And now, many say they have nowhere to go.

"We're screwed," said Todd, 46, who had been living in a tent for eight months and had no idea where he would be sleeping that night.
Jaki Ross lived with her husband in one of the tent cities and is now worried about becoming a victim of violence or sexual assault on the streets of Camden. "They're taking people out of their safe zone," she said.

People living out in the middle of the woods with absolutely no effect on anyone else are being declared criminals.

Of course I don't care about unjust laws, for an unjust law is no law at all, but as America's slide into facism continues you can remember it was because too many people voted for the same old democrat or republican.

[Foolsgo1d]

Colour me someone who hasn't seen the bigger picture but how bad is this homeless thing becoming in the western world?

I understand there are very few shelters for men on their own but this certainly cannot be any good with an increasing poor population.

[Cattle Rustler]

(05-17-2014 12:16 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

Colour me someone who hasn't seen the bigger picture but how bad is this homeless thing becoming in the western world?

I understand there are very few shelters for men on their own but this certainly cannot be any good with an increasing poor population.

It has only become bigger due to social media and expanding public transportation.

In dallas it started to become a "big" issue since rail lines opened from Downtown Dallas to the middle/upper class suburbs. From one day to the next you would see dirty hobos walking around your neighborhood and sleeping at night. Crime also increased because of them. Hobos used to be like unicorns around here, now we seem the on a daily basis near the rail stations.

Most importantly, sense some of them are mentally ill...it's quite annoying to hear them shouting or smell their filth.

[Basil Ransom]

There's a mentality that underlies all this. It is: "I won't lift a finger because I won't get anything out of it."

I see it all the time at work. You have people who are collegial and helpful, who will do you favors even when the benefit to them is unclear. And then you have the people who can save you hours of effort with a moment of work, and they refuse to help.

The same thing is at work here ( http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/palo-alt...-citywide- ) where rich boomers fight making housing more affordable just so their house can be worth a few more dollars.

[Foolsgo1d]

The city I am in has a few mentally ill homeless people. But there is this one "hobo" who I know is a faker. Irritates me every time I see him because I know for a fact he is acting.

He walked up to a large group at a bar where I was and started begging outright for cash right next to people with his hand out and I laughed at people giving it to him when I said he was a faker. I wasn't the most popular guy and he knew I was right.



So a question should be asked. What do you do with a problem such as the homeless?

[Samseau]

(05-17-2014 01:17 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

So a question should be asked. What do you do with a problem such as the homeless?

Well, welfare systems are mostly bullshit and do not help the poor. Instead they reward the irresponsible and those who know how to game the system.

Thus there is only one true solution for the poor, the same solution that has been around since the beginning of time. It's called charity. If you see a bum begging for help, throw him $5-$10.

I know many are fakers but do your best to avoid them. Look in the man's eyes and see if he's dead and desperate. Usually a man cannot fake that.

[Heathree]

A few years ago, a homeless man was standing outside a shop begging. Instead of giving money, I went into the shop and bought some good for the bum. When giving it to him, he said 'No thanks, I've already had dinner. I just want some money'.

There are systems in place to feed these people. Most of the time they just want money for drink and drugs.

[WestIndianArchie]

There are millions of poor people in this country.
A significant portion have access to guns.

In many cases, they shoot themselves, their wives and loved ones, or people in their neighborhood.

WIA

[Kingsley Davis]

Here in DC, some fuckwits are against culling the deer herd and using the meat to feed the homeless.

"Make that 3,300 pounds of local venison turned into meatloaf, burgers and more for the surprised directors of homeless shelters and other charities across the capital.

Despite local protesters who say the killings are cruel, the goal remains culling the deer population down to no more than 20 deer per square mile, from 77 per square mile counted last fall. Armed with small-caliber rifles, professional sharpshooters from the Department of Agriculture started killing deer in a one-night operation in March last year. The herd thinning quietly picked up again over five nights from January to March this year.

Now, to help the homeless and to make sure that the dead deer are not simply discarded — an action that would further outrage local residents — the National Park Service has the meat inspected and processed and then gives it to D.C. Central Kitchen. Using donated ingredients, the kitchen cooks and distributes 5,000 meals a day to community centers and shelters.”

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/wild...s-homeless

[weambulance]

(05-17-2014 02:14 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

There are millions of poor people in this country.
A significant portion have access to guns.

In many cases, they shoot themselves, their wives and loved ones, or people in their neighborhood.

WIA

What is your point?

[Tytalus]

I'm going to take different tak and be up front: I believe beggars - a percentage of the homeless, and certainly not all of them, are the most disgusting people under the sun.

Beggars produce nothing and DO nothing.

The involuntary homeless do need some help getting back on their feet, but if they're begging, I'm not giving them a cent.

So, anything that gets rid of begging (such as fining those who give to beggars) I am 100% in favor of.

[Sp5]

There's a percentage of the population who will never be productive, mostly due to mental illness or retardation. That proportion will increase, because the low-skill jobs are going away.

There used to be repetitive-motion factory work with good wages for below average people. Not anymore. Even the higher skill jobs requiring use of discretion are going away. It will probably be awhile before a robot can really clean an office or a kitchen, but there aren't many jobs left for the below average or even the average.

[soup]

I thought a lot of you guys were against America being more socialized..

What happened to all you conservatives with the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" "individual is responsible etc." lines?

[El Chinito loco]

It's kind of hard to pull yourselves up by your bootstraps if you're literally crazy. Schizophrenia or serious bi-polar disorder isn't some liberal construct.

I think the popular conservative stance is to just turn these people out onto the street. At least Reagan believed in just turning them loose but I think this has an overall net negative effect on society and the economy.

It's better just to place these people in permanent mental health facilities and write this off as overhead expense of running a country. Maybe a sterilization program could be instituted too.

The other alternative is to take them out back and shoot them in the head or something. Call me a bleeding heart but i'm not a proponent of mass murder of the mentally ill/handicapped for society's benefit.

[LeBeau]

The saddest issue about the homeless is not the ones who have continually made bad decisions over and over, or the addicts, it's the legitimate cases of mental illness where they had no one to help them out.

I have no idea what to do about that, aside from more social workers and community outreach.

Any thoughts?

[Collide]

(05-19-2014 10:37 PM)soup Wrote:  

I thought a lot of you guys were against America being more socialized..

What happened to all you conservatives with the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" "individual is responsible etc." lines?

Giving to homeless purely as a voluntary decision has nothing to do with government coercion of redistributing wealth.

[germanico]

Then they start getting them to special "holding zones"... they are pretty worthless, so when one of them dies, staff just writes them off.

Then staff notices that when one of them is unruly, or is too much of a hassle, he can just "die" mysteriously and nobody will come check.

Then they start adding other "undesirables" to the roster, like alcoholics, people on welfare, gypsies, homosexuals, jews, people that dont belong in "our" clean white neighbourhood.

Then they just outright build gas chambers and dispose of them. They are so many, and its so much trouble to keep them alive that they find its easier just get rid of the excess ones. They keep the strong and fit for simple manual labour, of course, but when they dry up, then back to the chamber... after all, they are coming in by the trainload these days.

Then when the enemy tanks come rolling in, they discover the stack of bones they kept in the backyard and perpetuate the notion that they where nothing more than ruthless murderers.

[Samseau]

(05-19-2014 10:37 PM)soup Wrote:  

I thought a lot of you guys were against America being more socialized..

What happened to all you conservatives with the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" "individual is responsible etc." lines?

It's been well-documented for a long time that conservatives give more to charity than liberals.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomwatson/20...f-charity/

Conservatives aren't against helping the poor, they are against taking other people's money in order to help the poor.

Conservatives believe in this thing called freedom and voluntary association.

[TheWastelander]

Having lived in Florida my entire life, I can say that we have a homeless problem largely because other states send their bums to us due to our warm weather. One of them even ranted to me about how the mayor of Philadelphia was trying to kill him when I was leaving the grocery store.

I can also say that the vast majority I've encountered are scummy druggies who prey on naive people's charity. They move into a nice downtown area and completely disrupt everything there with their filth.

Do not give a panhandler money or food, because you're only encouraging them. If they can beg for money they can also say "Welcome to Walmart" for $7.25 an hour.

Most homeless are not people who are just down on their luck and looking to bounce back. They're complete trash that are addicted to drugs and/or mentally ill. We'd be better off without them in our midst and I'm frankly quite tired of them hitting me up for money two or three times a month.

[soup]

I think if there was a little bit more protection for people in our system, the likelyhood having poor people at all would decrease.

It's not about forcing people to give up their wealth.

You can't be wealthy without other people supporting a system that enables you to be wealthy.

Money doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Also, do you really want to get started on who steals more money from who in our society?

A truly wealthy country is one that doesn't let it's own be waste away on the streets.

[TheWastelander]

(05-20-2014 09:54 AM)soup Wrote:  

I think if there was a little bit more protection for people in our system, the likelyhood having poor people at all would decrease.

It's not about forcing people to give up their wealth.

You can't be wealthy without other people supporting a system that enables you to be wealthy.

Money doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Also, do you really want to get started on who steals more money from who in our society?

A truly wealthy country is one that doesn't let it's own be waste away on the streets.

There's a problem with these people in every nation on Earth, even in the Scandinavian countries with massive social welfare safety nets.

Some lazy people just love drugs more than anything else in the world and don't want to work to support their habits. They panhandle because they know they can con well-meaning people out of their money with all this "woe is me" bullshit.

[Samseau]

(05-20-2014 09:27 AM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

Having lived in Florida my entire life, I can say that we have a homeless problem largely because other states send their bums to us due to our warm weather. One of them even ranted to me about how the mayor of Philadelphia was trying to kill him when I was leaving the grocery store.

I can also say that the vast majority I've encountered are scummy druggies who prey on naive people's charity. They move into a nice downtown area and completely disrupt everything there with their filth.

Do not give a panhandler money or food, because you're only encouraging them. If they can beg for money they can also say "Welcome to Walmart" for $7.25 an hour.

Most homeless are not people who are just down on their luck and looking to bounce back. They're complete trash that are addicted to drugs and/or mentally ill. We'd be better off without them in our midst and I'm frankly quite tired of them hitting me up for money two or three times a month.

I know there are freeloaders. But in this economy I see fresh new homeless faces all the time.

Also in Boston when I see a homeless man it's usually legit. Homeless people here do not survive the winter. Homeless men are found dead frozen to the sidewalks every year up here.

[Mr. Calicoat]

God bless the USA.

(yes, that was sarcasm.)

[soup]

(05-20-2014 10:29 AM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 09:54 AM)soup Wrote:  

I think if there was a little bit more protection for people in our system, the likelyhood having poor people at all would decrease.

It's not about forcing people to give up their wealth.

You can't be wealthy without other people supporting a system that enables you to be wealthy.

Money doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Also, do you really want to get started on who steals more money from who in our society?

A truly wealthy country is one that doesn't let it's own be waste away on the streets.

There's a problem with these people in every nation on Earth, even in the Scandinavian countries with massive social welfare safety nets.

Some lazy people just love drugs more than anything else in the world and don't want to work to support their habits. They panhandle because they know they can con well-meaning people out of their money with all this "woe is me" bullshit.

They might be lazy or crazy.

Clearly they aren't getting their shit together and probably won't respond to the stick. Instead, a lot of them waste away.

It's mental illness.

I used to make living playing music on the street. It's not as easy as you make it sound to generate money from the street.

[TheWastelander]

(05-20-2014 10:57 AM)soup Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 10:29 AM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 09:54 AM)soup Wrote:  

I think if there was a little bit more protection for people in our system, the likelyhood having poor people at all would decrease.

It's not about forcing people to give up their wealth.

You can't be wealthy without other people supporting a system that enables you to be wealthy.

Money doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Also, do you really want to get started on who steals more money from who in our society?

A truly wealthy country is one that doesn't let it's own be waste away on the streets.

There's a problem with these people in every nation on Earth, even in the Scandinavian countries with massive social welfare safety nets.

Some lazy people just love drugs more than anything else in the world and don't want to work to support their habits. They panhandle because they know they can con well-meaning people out of their money with all this "woe is me" bullshit.

They might be lazy or crazy.

Clearly they aren't getting their shit together and probably won't respond to the stick. Instead, a lot of them waste away.

It's mental illness.

I used to make living playing music on the street. It's not as easy as you make it sound to generate money from the street.

That's different. People will either like your music or they won't and even if they like it there's no guarantee they'll pay you for playing it.

But the odds of getting money from people go up when you throw on an old army field jacket, claim you're an unemployed veteran who just needs a couple bucks for food, and hobble around any city in the South panhandling your ass off to pay for your next crack rock.