[Kabal]

(03-28-2014 03:23 PM)Sharky Jackson Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 03:09 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

Way to be obtuse. That's not the point at all.

You're attempting to assign a linear value analysis to race, that is the basis of your hypothesis. I'm saying that everyone has contributed in one way or another, so a linear paradigm is incongruent with the structure of racial interactions.

For history to land us where we are, a great many peoples cast logs onto the fire of time. Take away any of those logs and you get a different fire. Assuming one log of the many has some special property that led inexorably to this outcome is nothing short of self serving racial hubris.

Race is a social construct, and a clusterfuck at that. Individuals make the world.

The separation of humans into k number of population groups ("race") is a trivial exercise for population geneticists.

Please unpack your usage of "linear" in this context, so anyone on this forum who has had even a bit of cursory familiarity with mathematics, statistics, and/or population genetics can have a laugh at your expense.

This sound like one of those posts I've written on this forum mocking culturalist PC liberals.

The word soup train-wreck is a favored lampooning technique of mine.

Many of those parody posts have passed the "Turing Test" for Poe's Law, so don't feel too bad.

[Lika]

(03-28-2014 05:51 PM)Don Juan Tenorio Wrote:  

Haiti was the second country to gain independence in America after the USA; as you know, after they got rid of the French yoke they become the most prosperous nation in oh wait, you have made your bed, now lie in it. On the other hand, do you think Norway, France or Canada would turn into mayhem? I hesitate it. Take an example of Orania in South Africa, an oasis of peace and armony where everything works in the heart of convulse South Africa.

According to the Economic Report on Africa 2013, prepared by the Economic Commission for Africa (UNECA) and the African Union, for the period 2008-2012, South Africa ranked among the 5 least performing countries of the continent on the basis of the average annual growth.

Unemployment affected, according to official figures, 25.6% of the labor force in the second quarter of 2013, but in reality about 40% of active people.

As for the income of the poorest segment of the black population, over 40% of South African population, it is now lower by almost 50% than it was under the white regime before 1994. In 2013, nearly 17 million blacks in a population of 51 million, only survived thanks to the welfare or Social Grant, which guarantees their subsistence.

[Goldin Boy]

Quote:

Haiti was the second country to gain independence in America after the USA; as you know, after they got rid of the French yoke they become the most prosperous nation in oh wait, you have made your bed, now lie in it. On the other hand, do you think Norway, France or Canada would turn into mayhem? I hesitate it. Take an example of Orania in South Africa, an oasis of peace and armony where everything works in the heart of convulse South Africa.

Bolded portion is not accurate. You conveniently omitted the following:

Haiti was paying back indemnities to France for the revolution from 1825 up until the around the earthquake in 2010. France demanded 125 million francs (90 million was paid) to paid under threat of military invasion..in today's money that is about 12 billion dollars American with interest.

Great Britain demanded no such money from the free American colonies. The US refused to trade with Haiti after their revolution leaving them to their own devices.

What country regardless of race can come up with $12 billion USD after a war, with little infrastructure and no ability to trade?

All the info above is easily accessible online and in any encyclopedia.

The facts above won't change the position to which you've emotionally committed but I wanted to let you know your talking point is off-base.

[Lika]

(03-29-2014 12:23 AM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

Haiti was paying back indemnities to France for the revolution from 1825 up until the around the earthquake in 2010

"In 1947, Haiti finally finished paying off the debt, from the indemnity plus interest, to France"

http://globalsouth12.wordpress.com/an-unending-debt/

[Goldin Boy]

(03-29-2014 12:35 AM)Lika Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 12:23 AM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

Haiti was paying back indemnities to France for the revolution from 1825 up until the around the earthquake in 2010

"In 1947, Haiti finally finished paying off the debt, from the indemnity plus interest, to France"

http://globalsouth12.wordpress.com/an-unending-debt/

Ok I stand corrected.

Haiti paid back a staggering sum $12 billion USD between 1825 and 1947

[Lika]

(03-29-2014 12:39 AM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 12:35 AM)Lika Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 12:23 AM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

Haiti was paying back indemnities to France for the revolution from 1825 up until the around the earthquake in 2010

"In 1947, Haiti finally finished paying off the debt, from the indemnity plus interest, to France"

http://globalsouth12.wordpress.com/an-unending-debt/

Ok I stand corrected.

Haiti paid back a staggering sum $12 billion USD between 1825 and 1947

Yes it's a lot of money but you know it is far from the main reason why Haïti went from the richest country in the Caribbeans to the poorest. There are many other factors such as Pétion’s 1809 land distribution decrees (from large farms to small-scale farming / subsistence crops):

"Sugar exports ceased altogether for one century, a startling development in a country that was the world’s largest exporter of tropical foodstuffs in the 1780s"

"This focus on low-margin foodstuffs, even more than misguided agricultural policies, explains why Haiti today is a nation of peasants eking out meager living off a few acres of bare hillsides."

Also when Americans occupied Haiti and tried to develop it, from 1915 to 1934, "Haitians waged a guerrilla war against the US occupation over the use of slave-like corvée labor to build roads and bridges. Chanting “down with the railroad,” they attacked the building of a US company that was building a railroad in between Port-au-Prince and Cap-Haïtien. The scions of the mulatto elite also resented the US imposed educational system that emphasized agricultural and technical training."

Etc. etc.

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2014/02...en-nation/

[jariel]

(03-28-2014 12:31 PM)mikado Wrote:  

Sometimes I feel like most of you here intend the manosphere to be for white people only.
Between countless rants on how immigrants have it easy, followed with the constant lamentations on how the white males are victims, I start to get really bored of it. This is personnified in the Ali meltdown thread.
How about stopping your hamsterizing?
You just don't know how is it to live in a minority's skin. You don't know how hard/easy it is when you are an inmigrant, trying to live in a foreign country to sustain your family, or just suck off the system.

I only need to check the Athlone's ROK article on black men to see it. So many so-called white manospherians who took the opportunity to express their racist views , yet they pretend we are brothers when another article comes out, directed this time to all men.
These kind of people are the first to say they are open-minded, not agressive, etc etc, then typically get pissed when they see a non white dude make out with some white HB in front of their eyes. They would like to travel to all countries, get all the flags possible on Earth, then get mad that other people come to their own country to earn a living, and pick up "THEIR" chicks.

[Joga Bonito]

(03-29-2014 01:08 AM)Lika Wrote:  

Yes it's a lot of money but you know it is far from the main reason why Haïti went from the richest country in the Caribbeans to the poorest. There are many other factors such as Pétion’s 1809 land distribution decrees (from large farms to small-scale farming / subsistence crops):

"Sugar exports ceased altogether for one century, a startling development in a country that was the world’s largest exporter of tropical foodstuffs in the 1780s"

"This focus on low-margin foodstuffs, even more than misguided agricultural policies, explains why Haiti today is a nation of peasants eking out meager living off a few acres of bare hillsides."

Also when Americans occupied Haiti and tried to develop it, from 1915 to 1934, "Haitians waged a guerrilla war against the US occupation over the use of slave-like corvée labor to build roads and bridges. Chanting “down with the railroad,” they attacked the building of a US company that was building a railroad in between Port-au-Prince and Cap-Haïtien. The scions of the mulatto elite also resented the US imposed educational system that emphasized agricultural and technical training."

Etc. etc.

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2014/02...en-nation/

Just an FYI, but there is actually concrete, indisputable qualitative and quantitative evidence that the Western world has actively and successfully worked to undermine the Haitian economy(as is overwhelmingly the case with developing countries in Africa and Latin America for example). See below for some of them. Also note that I didn't include the illegal kidnapping and exile of a legitimately elected President(Aristide), in addition to other successful coups fomented by the Western world.

Quote:

"The most glaring example of this trend is rice, which was once a staple crop. Today, little rice is grown in Haiti; instead, the nation is a market for the subsidized rice crop grown in the United States. Human Rights lawyer Bill Quigley, now at the Center for Constitutional Rights, wrote about this trend in the spring of 2008, as food riots shook Haiti and other parts of the developing world:

In 1986, after the expulsion of Haitian dictator Jean Claude “Baby Doc” Duvalier, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) loaned Haiti $24.6 million in desperately needed funds (Baby Doc had raided the treasury on the way out). But, in order to get the IMF loan, Haiti was required to reduce tariff protections for their Haitian rice and other agricultural products and some industries to open up the country’s markets to competition from outside countries. The US has by far the largest voice in decisions of the IMF. “American rice invaded the country,” recalled Charles Suffrard, a leading rice grower in Haiti, in an interview with the Washington Post in 2000. By 1987 and 1988, there was so much rice coming into the country that many stopped working the land.

Quigley interviewed Father Gerard Jean-Juste, a Haitian priest and human rights advocate. “In the 1980s, imported rice poured into Haiti, below the cost of what our farmers could produce it,” Fr. Jean-Juste said. “Farmers lost their businesses. People from the countryside started losing their jobs and moving to the cities. After a few years of cheap imported rice, local production went way down.” By 2008, Haiti was the world’s third largest importer of US rice, receiving some 240,000 tons that year alone.

US rice growers are heavily subsidized by the government. Between 1995-2006 they received $11 billion. The American rice industry is also protected by tariffs – the same sorts of tariffs the IMF demanded Haiti remove. With the average family income standing at about $400 a year, most Haitians couldn’t afford to pay international prices for a product they once grew for themselves – so they had to have aid. The US sponsored the aid, but half the money didn’t go to buy the food; it went to US farmers, to processors and to shipping companies, because the food had to be transported in US ships. A good part of the so-called handout to Haiti actually went to US agribusiness, which needed markets for its overflowing bins of farm products."


"Another infamous “aid” story involves the destruction of native pig farming in Haiti, following an outbreak of swine fever in the late 1970s. As described by Paul Farmer, the physician and anthropologist legendary for his work among Haiti’s poor, pigs were once a centerpiece of Haiti’s peasant economy, providing a reliable source of income and an insurance policy against hard times. The hardy Haitian creole pigs seemed to be remarkably resistant to swine fever. But American agriculture experts feared that Haiti’s pigs could spread the disease to the United States and destroy its massive hog business, and bankrolled a $23 million “extermination and restocking program.”

By 1984, all of Haiti’s 1.3 million pigs had been killed. USAID and the Organization of American States thereupon announced a plan to replace the Creole pigs with brand new Iowa pigs – provided that the peasants committed to building pigsties to US standards and demonstrate they had enough money to buy feed. Even the peasants who could afford these “free” pigs found that they couldn’t flourish under Haitian conditions. The fragile kochon blan (“foreign” or “white” pigs) frequently fell ill and had to go to the vet; they wouldn’t eat scraps and required expensive feed; and they had few litters. Soon, the project was abandoned – leaving Iowa hog farmers enriched, and hundreds of thousands of Haitian families without a key means of survival.

These changes in many ways served US economic interests in the Caribbean, which since the 1980s have been oriented towards knitting the area into a common free trade zone, first in the Caribbean Basin Initiative and then under the North American Free Trade Agreement. Forced out of small-scale farming by the elimination of two basic staples, Haitians moved to the cities, where they were available to work in sweatshops producing panties, bras, and dresses for such places as Sears, WalMart, and JC Penney. US aid programs have supported the effort to turn countries such as Haiti into low wage assembly platforms that supply a cheap, easily exploitable workforce for American and international business – and at the same time, relieve pressure on immigration by keeping the desperate Haitians working at home for what is barely a living wage"

http://hondurasoye.wordpress.com/2010/01...n-economy/

Quote:

"In 2010, just months after Haiti was struck by a devastating earthquake, the United States passed legislation allocating $651 million to USAID to support relief and reconstruction efforts. Three years later, just 31 percent of these funds have been spent as delays mount and goals are scaled back… The report also criticizes USAID for a lack of transparency…

The GAO found that inaccurate cost estimates and delays led to an increase in the amount dedicated to providing shelter from $59 million to $97 million while at the same time “decreased the projected number of houses to be built by over 80 percent, from 15,000 to 2,649.” Originally estimated to cost less than $10,000 for a completed house, actual costs have been greater than $33,000. USAID has awarded over $46 million to contractors for housing. Meanwhile, some 300,000 people remain in camps over three years after the earthquake. Overall, the humanitarian community has constructed just 7,000 new homes, about 40 percent of what is currently planned…

Further, the GAO report is critical of U.S. investments supporting the Caracol Industrial Park. Randal C. Archibold of the New York Times reports:

A big portion of Agency for International Development money, $170.3 million, went toward a power plant and port for an industrial park in northern Haiti that was the centerpiece of United States reconstruction efforts and had been heavily promoted by the State Department and former President Bill Clinton…

Although the aid agency completed the power plant under budget, the port, crucial to the industrial park’s long-term success, is two years behind schedule “due in part to a lack of U.S.A.I.D. expertise in port planning in Haiti,” the report said, and is now vulnerable to cost overruns. (GAO Report Critical of USAID in Haiti, Bolsters Calls for Increased Oversight, Center for Economic and Policy Research, June 26, 2013)

The delays and potential cost overruns related to the construction of Caracol’s essential port are easily explained by the fact that USAID received $72 million for its planning and construction, despite its cruel lack of expertise. Indeed USAID has not built such a structure in the past 40 years:

Despite having “not constructed a port anywhere in the world since the 1970s”, USAID allocated $72 million dollars to build one, according to [the] GAO report released last week. The port is meant to help support the Caracol Industrial Park (CIP) which was constructed with funding from the Inter-American Development Bank (IDB) and $170 million in funding from the U.S. for related infrastructure. The CIP has been held up as the flagship reconstruction project undertaken by the international community in Haiti. Even after putting aside criticisms of the location, types of jobs and the environmental impact of the CIP, the “success” of the entire project hinges on the new port…

Without any in-house expertise in port construction at USAID, the mission turned to private contractors. HRRW reported in January 2012 that MWH Americas was awarded a “$2.8 million contract to conduct a feasibility study for port infrastructure in northern Haiti.” The expected completion date was May 2012. MWH Americas had previously been criticized for their work in New Orleans, with the Times-Picayune reporting that MWH had “been operating for more than two years under a dubiously awarded contract that has allowed it to overbill the city repeatedly even as the bricks-and-mortar recovery work it oversees has lagged.” (USAID’s Lack of Expertise, Reliance on Contractors Puts Sustainability of Caracol in Doubt, Center for Economic and Policy Research, July 2, 2013)

These examples illustrate perfectly what “international aid” is all about. Ezili Dantò explains:

The NGOs carry out US imperial policies in Haiti in exchange for “charity funding” – which means, they money launder US tax payer and donor dollars and put it in their pockets. US imperial policies is about destroying Haiti manufacturing and local economy, expropriating Haiti natural resources and making a larger Haiti market for their subsidized Wall Street monopolies.

The economic elites made billions upon billions before the $9-billion the US “big-hearted humanitarians” would add to their coffers from laundering earthquake relief dollars largely back to US groups.

But the NGOs and their Hollywood, media and academic cohorts play firemen to the US government’s arsonist role in Haiti and the global south. The professional posers – the white industrial charitable complex – play an underhanded game. For instance “The Center for Economic and Policy Research (CEPR) analyzed the $1.15 billion pledged after the January 2010 quake to Haiti and found that the “vast majority” of the money it could follow went straight to U.S. companies or organizations, more than half in the Washington area alone.” (Ezili Dantò, op. cit.)."

http://www.globalresearch.ca/haiti-recon...te/5344546

Quote:

The IMF’s Bitter “Economic Medicine”

The IMF and the World Bank are key players in the process of economic and political destabilization. While carried out under the auspices of an intergovernmental body, the IMF reforms tend to support US strategic and foreign policy objectives.

Based on the so-called “Washington consensus”, IMF austerity and restructuring measures through their devastating impacts, often contribute to triggering social and ethnic strife. IMF reforms have often precipitated the downfall of elected governments. In extreme cases of economic and social dislocation, the IMF’s bitter economic medicine has contributed to the destabilization of entire countries, as occurred in Somalia, Rwanda and Yugoslavia. (See Michel Chossudovsky, The Globalization of Poverty and the New World Order, Second Edition, 2003.

The IMF program is a consistent instrument of economic dislocation. The IMF’s reforms contribute to reshaping and downsizing State institutions through drastic austerity measures. The latter are implemented alongside other forms of intervention and political interference, including CIA covert activities in support of rebel paramilitary groups and opposition political parties.

Moreover, so-called “Emergency Recovery” and “Post-conflict” reforms are often introduced under IMF guidance, in the wake of a civil war, a regime change or “a national emergency”.

In Haiti, the IMF sponsored “free market” reforms have been carried out consistently since the Duvalier era. They have been applied in several stages since the first election of president Aristide in 1990.

The 1991 military coup, which took place 8 months following Jean Bertrand Aristide’s accession to the presidency, was in part intended to reverse the Aristide government’s progressive reforms and reinstate the neoliberal policy agenda of the Duvalier era.

A former World Bank official Mr. Marc Bazin was appointed Prime minister by the Military Junta in June 1992. In fact, it was the US State Department which sought his appointment.

Bazin had a track record of working for the “Washington consensus.” In 1983, he had been appointed Finance Minister under the Duvalier regime, In fact he had been recommended to the Finance portfolio by the IMF: “President-for-Life Jean-Claude Duvalier had agreed to the appointment of an IMF nominee, former World Bank official Marc Bazin, as Minister of Finance”. (Mining Annual Review, June, 1983). Bazin, who was considered Washington’s “favorite”, later ran against Aristide in the 1990 presidential elections.

Bazin, was called in by the Military Junta in 1992 to form a so-called “consensus government”. It is worth noting that it was precisely during Bazin’s term in office as Prime Minister that the political massacres and extra judicial killings by the CIA supported FRAPH death squadrons were unleashed, leading to the killing of more than 4000 civilians. Some 300,000 people became internal refugees, “thousands more fled across the border to the Dominican Republic, and more than 60,000 took to the high seas” (Statement of Dina Paul Parks, Executive Director, National Coalition for Haitian Rights, Committee on Senate Judiciary, US Senate, Washington DC, 1 October 2002). Meanwhile, the CIA had launched a smear campaign representing Aristide as “mentally unstable” (Boston Globe, 21 Sept 1994).

The 1994 US Military Intervention

Following three years of military rule, the US intervened in 1994, sending in 20,000 occupation troops and “peace-keepers” to Haiti. The US military intervention was not intended to restore democracy. Quite the contrary: it was carried out to prevent a popular insurrection against the military Junta and its neoliberal cohorts.

In other words, the US military occupation was implemented to ensure political continuity.

While the members of the military Junta were sent into exile, the return to constitutional government required compliance to IMF diktats, thereby foreclosing the possibility of a progressive “alternative” to the neoliberal agenda. Moreover, US troops remained in the country until 1999. The Haitian armed forces were disbanded and the US State Department hired a mercenary company DynCorp to provide “technical advice” in restructuring the Haitian National Police (HNP).

“DynCorp has always functioned as a cut-out for Pentagon and CIA covert operations.” (See Jeffrey St. Clair and Alexander Cockburn, Counterpunch, February 27, 2002 ) Under DynCorp advice in Haiti, former Tonton Macoute and Haitian military officers involved in the 1991 Coup d’Etat were brought into the HNP. (See Ken Silverstein, Privatizing War, The Nation, July 28, 1997, http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/silver.htm )

In October 1994, Aristide returned from exile and reintegrated the presidency until the end of his mandate in 1996. “Free market” reformers were brought into his Cabinet. A new wave of deadly macro-economic policies was adopted under a so-called Emergency Economic Recovery Plan (EERP) “that sought to achieve rapid macroeconomic stabilization, restore public administration, and attend to the most pressing needs.” (See IMF Approves Three-Year ESAF Loan for Haiti, Washington, 1996, http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pr/1996/pr9653.htm ).

The restoration of Constitutional government had been negotiated behind closed doors with Haiti’s external creditors. Prior to Aristide’s reinstatement as the country’s president, the new government was obliged to clear the country’s debt arrears with its external creditors. In fact the new loans provided by the World Bank, the Inter-American Development Bank (IDB), and the IMF were used to meet Haiti’s obligations with international creditors. Fresh money was used to pay back old debt leading to a spiraling external debt.

Broadly coinciding with the military government, Gross Domestic Product (GDP) declined by 30 percent (1992-1994). With a per capita income of $250 per annum, Haiti is the poorest country in the Western hemisphere and among the poorest in the world. (see World Bank, Haiti: The Challenges of Poverty Reduction, Washington, August 1998).

The World Bank estimates unemployment to be of the order of 60 percent. (A 2000 US Congressional Report estimates it to be as high as 80 percent. See US House of Representatives, Criminal Justice, Drug Policy and Human Resources Subcommittee, FDHC Transcripts, 12 April 2000).

In the wake of three years of military rule and economic decline, there was no “Economic Emergency Recovery” as envisaged under the IMF loan agreement. In fact quite the opposite: The IMF imposed “stabilization” under the “Recovery” program required further budget cuts in almost non-existent social sector programs. A civil service reform program was launched, which consisted in reducing the size of the civil service and the firing of “surplus” State employees. The IMF-World Bank package was in part instrumental in the paralysis of public services, leading to the eventual demise of the entire State system. In a country where health and educational services were virtually nonexistent, the IMF had demanded the lay off of “surplus” teachers and health workers with a view to meeting its target for the budget deficit.

Washington’s foreign policy initiatives were coordinated with the application of the IMF’s deadly economic medicine. The country had been literally pushed to the brink of economic and social disaster.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/ten-years-a...ti/5368279

[xpatplayer]

Fuck this race-trolling. Stop hating on other races and on political views. Improve yourselves first. Quit being bitches and work hard to get to the top. Anyone can make it to the top in today's world, except haters. Haters are masturbators. Liberals who hate on whites aren't successful outside of the political realm. Neo-nazis and racists aren't successful either.

Seriously, improve yourselves and surround yourselves with people who want to improve. Fuck the crime statistics in Africa or the West. The world is a cruel and harsh place. Get used to it and work your ass off. Be grateful to your family, friends and community and support them in every way possible. Support the newbies. Support other people trying to improve themselves and their communities. Remember - its not about how unfair life is but where you are in the end.

Xpat out.

[Lika]

(03-29-2014 01:26 AM)iWin Wrote:  

there is actually concrete, indisputable qualitative and quantitative evidence that the Western world has actively and successfully worked to undermine the Haitian economy(as is overwhelmingly the case with developing countries in Africa and Latin America for example)

Ok, I give up. The reason why Haiti and Africa are poor and underdeveloped is because the white man is evil

They are victims... I understand feminists better now.

[Big Nilla]

(03-29-2014 12:39 AM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 12:35 AM)Lika Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 12:23 AM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

Haiti was paying back indemnities to France for the revolution from 1825 up until the around the earthquake in 2010

"In 1947, Haiti finally finished paying off the debt, from the indemnity plus interest, to France"

http://globalsouth12.wordpress.com/an-unending-debt/

Ok I stand corrected.

Haiti paid back a staggering sum $12 billion USD between 1825 and 1947

Sucks to be them. In part, due to the Haitian revolt we got the Louisiana Purchase from France for only $15 million ($236 million in 2013 dollars). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Purchase

Edit: I think that $236 million is off a bit. I think the inflation factored in is too low so in today's dollars it's more. But still, the USA got an incredible deal with it... and Alaska from Russia.

[Joga Bonito]

(03-29-2014 01:46 AM)Lika Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 01:26 AM)iWin Wrote:  

there is actually concrete, indisputable qualitative and quantitative evidence that the Western world has actively and successfully worked to undermine the Haitian economy(as is overwhelmingly the case with developing countries in Africa and Latin America for example)

Ok, I give up. The reason why Haiti and Africa are poor and underdeveloped is because the white man is evil [/b]

They are victims... I understand feminists better now.

Hey now, don't forget Latin American and some parts of Asia.

[Collide]

(03-28-2014 03:23 PM)Sharky Jackson Wrote:  

Race is a social construct

Everything is a social construct then. What is a chair? What is a species? What is a feminine face and a masculine face? You could construct a very absurd and specific definition of a feminine and masculine face and conclude they don't exist.

[Lika]

"Race is a social construct"

Yeah right, races don't exist but white men are evil (and they don't like when black men fuck their women)

[Excelsior]

(03-28-2014 08:24 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

This thread was about a slutty German girl. How did it turn into this?

She fucked black men - that is the key.

There are few quicker ways to create tension, controversy and outright conflict in the US (and Europe, to a lesser extent) than to discuss the notion of white women having sexual intercourse with black men. Few things piss off more people more rapidly than that idea.

That is why this thread, which began as a simple discussion regarding a slutty German girl's porno past, devolved into a discussion about the cultural/technological inferiority of certain groups, the social construction (or lack thereof) of race, the need for ethnic self-determination, and a host of other vastly more serious and vastly more controversial subjects. The topic of white women getting intimately involved with black men touches nerves in ways very few other topics can.

It is what it is and what it always has been, and it isn't going to change any time soon.

[Wayout]

(03-28-2014 06:50 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Black dick must be irresistible if even Nazi bitches don't turn it away.

I am pretty sure it was so "irresistible" - they had to pay her triple to touch it!

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(03-28-2014 12:31 PM)mikado Wrote:  

Sometimes I feel like most of you here intend the manosphere to be for white people only.
Between countless rants on how immigrants have it easy, followed with the constant lamentations on how the white males are victims, I start to get really bored of it. This is personnified in the Ali meltdown thread.
How about stopping your hamsterizing?
You just don't know how is it to live in a minority's skin. You don't know how hard/easy it is when you are an inmigrant, trying to live in a foreign country to sustain your family, or just suck off the system.

I only need to check the Athlone's ROK article on black men to see it. So many so-called white manospherians who took the opportunity to express their racist views , yet they pretend we are brothers when another article comes out, directed this time to all men.
These kind of people are the first to say they are open-minded, not agressive, etc etc, then typically get pissed when they see a non white dude make out with some white HB in front of their eyes. They would like to travel to all countries, get all the flags possible on Earth, then get mad that other people come to their own country to earn a living, and pick up "THEIR" chicks.

"These kind of people are the first to say they are open-minded, not agressive, etc etc, then typically get pissed when they see a non white dude make out with some white HB in front of their eyes. They would like to travel to all countries, get all the flags possible on Earth, then get mad that other people come to their own country to earn a living, and pick up "THEIR" chicks."

This quality is not only applicable to white people. Try walking through the mall with a hot black chick as a white guy and see how black guys behave. This happened to me enough times when I was younger that I'm convinced this sort of thing is in our blood somewhere. And I was only *friends* with the girl in question, not even making out with her.

And beyond that, if you want to see racial animosity, check how black women behave when they see a white woman with an extremely successful, good-looking black man. I have a friend who works as a nurse who says this went on in a hospital and it was like something out of "Jerry Springer."

And speaking of "white guys," my dad tells me that in the '60s when the Italian guys used to date Irish girls (or vice versa), huge fights would ensue -- they called them "rumbles." So, this is an intra-racial problem as well that's probably instinctive to ethnic groups, not just white men.

[Excelsior]

A couple of other quick points:

1. The notion that white Americans are not allowed to be proud of their heritage is mythological. In the United States, whites quite often engage in open celebrations of their ethnic heritage. The Irish and Italian communities are especially vocal, and many others are heard quite frequently (ex: Jews, Greeks, etc). European heritages are also honored on a daily basis due to their having been interwoven into the fundamental components of our society (place names, our education system, our history lessons, most of our holidays, the organization of our military units, the names and mottos of said military units, our language, our political system, our architecture, etc, etc, etc), and we are often reminded (in school and elsewhere) of precisely where and how different European groups were able to influence each of these things.

Nobody growing up in the United States is under the illusion that this is not, first and foremost, a nation largely created by and for peoples of European descent, and this country is really not at all ashamed of that fact. It is acknowledged and celebrated regularly by most.

2. Views on interracial relationships vary substantially between different groups. Xenophobia is universal, but openness to the embrace of foreign DNA (and of the foreign men who would put it in local women) varies substantially.

Most groups across the planet privilege European features and admixture. In black communities world wide (but particularly i the western hemisphere), European blood is an asset - the fairer skin, lighter eye colors and "better" hair it provides are very often used by blacks to rank other blacks and have long signified status within the black community. In Asia, the worship of European features has gotten to a point at which they've resorted to outright mimicry, even creating animated Japanese characters with European features. Asian, like Africans, are known to frequently modify their appearance (hair dying, extensions, inserts, skin lightening, eye/nose surgery, etc) in order to appear more European. In Latin America, there has long been a hierarchy in which those with the most substantial amounts of European blood sit at the top of the heap.

European blood is strongly desired by non-white groups the world over, but non-European blood is not as strongly desired by Europeans. Europeans with non-European features are not put on the same pedestal within European society that non-Europeans with European blood occupy in non-European societies.

This does impact the nature of any discussion about different racial groups and their "openness" to having "their women" intimately involved with outsiders. The identity of the outsiders and the women in question greatly influences the severity and controversy associated with the reaction.
The severity and controversy of given reaction reaction is generally maximized when the outsiders are black. This is often true even when the women in question are non-European (ex: East Asian). All groups generally prefer to keep their women away from outsiders, but they do not view all outsiders equally. Since many non-Europeans privilege access to European blood and European features, you will often find that they are generally less hostile to European "outsiders" than they are to others. Europeans have their biases as well with regard to which "outsiders" are most intolerable in association with their women.

3. There is a double standard with regard to the need for "diversity" in European lands but not in others. That double standard is the product of a few factors: historical reality, white guilt, and economic necessity.

First, the historical reality. Europeans, in the process of conquering most of the planet, created the most diverse and globalzed polities man had ever seen. They brought most of the non-European world under their dominion, and integrated them quite heavily: European religion spread across several continents, European languages were soon spoken on every inhabited continent, European laws are followed on every continent, and (thanks to the prolific activities of adventurous European men) European blood has spread through non-white populatons on many continents and is quite extensive in parts (ex: the average Afro-Caribbean is around 20-25% European by blood, if not more). This influence is key in discussing why so many feel it natural for Africans, Asians and Mestizos to migrate to European lands en masse, but not to places like Japan. West Africans (to use on example) speak European languages (generally French or English), worship European gods (most are Christian), abide by European legal systems and carry European names. This is why people often assume that they could "belong" in France or the UK, as opposed to Japan. The same goes for East Indians, Filipinos, and many other migrant groups. That cultural link is crucial to promoting the greater feasibility of "diversity" in Europe relative to other places.

Second, the white guilt. Long story short, Europe took over the world and some bad things happened in the process. White Europeans who understand the history of their expansion are aware of these bad things, and feel very guilty about it. Many of those who possess this guilt are in positions of influence and power (they are often the guiltiest, actually), hence the tendency for white guilt to manifest itself in the policies and broader mainstream norms of societies dominated by Europeans. This also is crucial to the promotion of diversity in European dominate lands relative to others.

Third, the economics. Globalization and the mass importation of cheap foreigners benefits the economic elite. By encouraging the notion that their nations need the "diversity" provided by these foreigners, one can ensure a steady supply of this cheap labor and the higher profit margins it can help guarantee. Europeans pioneered the concept of globalization and European-dominated nations are the most common amon the global economic elite, hence the tendency for this idea to be more prominent in Europe than it is elsewhere. That being said, they're not alone in this (Arabs and East Asians are also known to import laborers; black Caribbeans do it occasionally as well).

None of what I have written above will change any minds here, but the facts are what they are.

[Don Juan Tenorio]

(03-28-2014 08:24 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

This thread was about a slutty German girl. How did it turn into this?

I am a man first and over all, that is what took me here; I came here for the fun and for learning. We share the same interests and face similar problems because of it. Feminist laws are engineered to detach us from our offsprings, deprive us from our assets, dignity and well-being, to opress us and to command what we can tell and not and how to think regardless of our race. There would be no need of a manosphere hadn't we on the other side a powerful and lavishly founded feminist counterpart which only goal is to leech us and make our lifes miserable. It would be ideal, for our own sake, if we all were on the same page.

Here one find men from virtually all corners of the world; all ages, social and cultural backgrounds, religious believes and political views. Can't you see the opportunity to learn from others' points of view beyond those of your social circle formed probably by people of your own kind? If you want to hear others who think like you there is no need to come to the internet.

Let's forget about history and focuse on present. One of the brand new heroes of RVF is a black guy who escaped the projects from NYC fled from the USA and became a refugee in Moscow. He is a really cool guy, and very intelligent. Do you think any normal person would have problems about having a guy like that as a neighbour just because he bangs white girls? guys wake up. From all the countries in the world he chose a European one, and from them not countries like UK, France or Italy with a population of African origin that reaches 7 figures in each of them but the one that probably have less black people (porcentually and in global terms) coincidence? I don't think so. I've seen many of his videos and I love them because you can learn a lot from both, Russian culture and african-americans; I've seen himself tactfully critizising his sistas and talking about how disgusting the female scene in their neighbourhoods is, specially after having travelled to EE. It is a classical example of someone who is constantly complains about his family but would not let anybody say the very same things he does about his parents, brothers or sisters because they're family and it's a matter of honour.

Those who label others as racist and complain about discrimination against blacks are the very same guys who post messages like: (white) Brazilian chicks are racist coz they won't bang black guys, some (x european country girls/x asian country girls) are racist because they don't want to bang me. Guys who leave their neighbourhood because they want in a non-black atmosphere, to countries where they can avoid banging black girls and then complain about people being racist with blacks. It turns out that our proud and aware black members try to escape their very own people, live so far as it gets from them, surround themselves by peoploe of other ethnity, want to mate non-black females to breed children who look the less black the better, and so on. How many of our proud African-American fellows have chosen Africa over Europe, LA or Asia once they got their passports? Have they even been there?

Regading the topic of the thread, Mikado started it. I came to post the story of a Russian porn actress who was kicked for making porn with black guys (the pics have been removed for being too explicit, but for those interested can find the whole news item here in russkie kontury info /news/rasovyj_pornoskandal_potrjas_organizaciju_russkikh_nacistov_foto/2012-02-28-563 enter under your own responsibility) I read the posts with opinions I don't share so I joined the party and gave my own. One can't just pretend to bring up such a polemic topic and expect everybody else to keep silent, agree with everything you say or keep politically correct in an oasis of freedom like this.

[randomForest]

Looks like the infiltration of the Heartiste brigade is complete. No idea how this thread hasn't been locked yet.

[Feisbook Control]

Excelsior: I think it's gone far beyond those historical reasons though. I understand people making the argument for Britain, France, etc. having the score "evened" due to historical injustices (even though I don't agree with that argument). Yet much of this push for diversity is occurring in countries that had little to no role in colonialism. In many cases, such countries might even have been colonies themselves. Examples would include Finland, Greece, and basically all of Eastern Europe (except Russia). As far as I know, Finland has absolutely no historic connection with Africa or Asia, and only the most miniscule of connections to the Americas in that some Finns settled in Sweden's brief colonial empire. Yet this push for diversity is not just for Britain, France, etc. It's for places that (should) bear no white guilt whatsoever. As such, I smell a rat.

Yet it goes further than that. Taiwan has its own extremely complicated history of colonisation (by Chinese, Europeans, more Chinese, Japanese, and more Chinese). There is plenty of racism here, including amongst ethnic Han Chinese. Yet again, I smell a rat because there are a lot of white foreigners here who want "diversity" in Taiwan (despite the fact that in the south and east of the country, something like 25% of kids are now born to foreign mothers, mostly Chinese or Southeast Asian). Taiwan has only a very recent history with most of the rest of the world, and yet I see all of the same zeal with turning it into a giant social experiment.

I would not be surprised if that were a commonly held position by a lot of white people in East Asia. Part of that is obviously them being immigrants themselves, but more than that, I think it's just part of some sort of bizarre mind virus transmitted by the education system, media, etc. in the West now. The real beneficiaries, as you pointed out, are a cabal of Davos Men, who ironically, aside from the "staff" who come to serve them every day, live in some of the least diverse places on the planet. I call massive BS on diversity since it is almost inevitably something put upon the working (and possibly middle) class, be they in Europe, North America, Australia, or even in Asia. As such, the average white progressive trumpeting "diversity" is nothing more than a useful idiot in his own economic and cultural castration. It's just a different facet of that giant dog turd being passed around like it's a diamond that is every other progressive issue du jour, e.g. feminism, transgenderism or anything else. Keeping us fragmented keeps us under control. Most Asians, not having gone through twelve to sixteen years of the BS we call Western education, see it for what it is. There is a big fracas going on right now about the president of Taiwan basically selling this country up the river, and people are pissed off about it. Though, of course, the average white guy here sees no irony in simultaneously being against Chinese swamping the country and being pro-mass immigration from other countries (both to Taiwan and elsewhere).

This may sound strange, but I am actually really against East Asian countries becoming less East Asian (sometimes, being a minority works for me, sometimes, it works against me, but ultimately, I don't want to be "accommodated") and even less distinct within the region. By extension, I am against European countries becoming less European, African countries becoming less African, etc. I think a great deal would be lost (particularly social cohesion) if they ended up looking like London. Some people laud London as some sort of great success story. I couldn't agree less. Everyone there hates everyone else (that's going to explode sooner, rather than later). It's a completely souless place now where it's actually hard to find anyone who is ethnically English (let alone a genuine, flesh and blood Londoner). The whole place feels like an airport lounge with some sort of faux architectural wallpaper serving as a backdrop to the same crappy chain store you saw at the last airport and the same surveillance cameras too.

[Roosh]

(03-28-2014 07:51 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Is it just me or does Sharky Jackson give off the vibe of a previously banned member? I'm guessing Shotgun Styles based on his posts.

Coming off as way too aggressive and familiar for a new face.

I definitely agree, especially with is nose in the Ali thread. He has been banned for 3 days and will be monitored closely.

[Roosh]

Quote:

No idea how this thread hasn't been locked yet.

What's the point? For years guys here can't help themselves and talk about race. I've locked dozens of race threads. A thread can't survive if people don't respond to it, so if you're responding, then this is obviously a topic that interests you, as much as you may protest about it.

It's better I just leave this open and use as a honey pot to ban the true race trolls. Hit report if someone steps out of line and I'll deal with it.

[mikado]

(03-29-2014 05:48 AM)Don Juan Tenorio Wrote:  

(03-28-2014 08:24 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

This thread was about a slutty German girl. How did it turn into this?

I am a man first and over all, that is what took me here; I came here for the fun and for learning. We share the same interests and face similar problems because of it. Feminist laws are engineered to detach us from our offsprings, deprive us from our assets, dignity and well-being, to opress us and to command what we can tell and not and how to think regardless of our race. There would be no need of a manosphere hadn't we on the other side a powerful and lavishly founded feminist counterpart which only goal is to leech us and make our lifes miserable. It would be ideal, for our own sake, if we all were on the same page.

Here one find men from virtually all corners of the world; all ages, social and cultural backgrounds, religious believes and political views. Can't you see the opportunity to learn from others' points of view beyond those of your social circle formed probably by people of your own kind? If you want to hear others who think like you there is no need to come to the internet.

Let's forget about history and focuse on present. One of the brand new heroes of RVF is a black guy who escaped the projects from NYC fled from the USA and became a refugee in Moscow. He is a really cool guy, and very intelligent. Do you think any normal person would have problems about having a guy like that as a neighbour just because he bangs white girls? guys wake up. From all the countries in the world he chose a European one, and from them not countries like UK, France or Italy with a population of African origin that reaches 7 figures in each of them but the one that probably have less black people (porcentually and in global terms) coincidence? I don't think so. I've seen many of his videos and I love them because you can learn a lot from both, Russian culture and african-americans; I've seen himself tactfully critizising his sistas and talking about how disgusting the female scene in their neighbourhoods is, specially after having travelled to EE. It is a classical example of someone who is constantly complains about his family but would not let anybody say the very same things he does about his parents, brothers or sisters because they're family and it's a matter of honour.

Those who label others as racist and complain about discrimination against blacks are the very same guys who post messages like: (white) Brazilian chicks are racist coz they won't bang black guys, some (x european country girls/x asian country girls) are racist because they don't want to bang me. Guys who leave their neighbourhood because they want in a non-black atmosphere, to countries where they can avoid banging black girls and then complain about people being racist with blacks. It turns out that our proud and aware black members try to escape their very own people, live so far as it gets from them, surround themselves by peoploe of other ethnity, want to mate non-black females to breed children who look the less black the better, and so on. How many of our proud African-American fellows have chosen Africa over Europe, LA or Asia once they got their passports? Have they even been there?

Regading the topic of the thread, Mikado started it. I came to post the story of a Russian porn actress who was kicked for making porn with black guys (the pics have been removed for being too explicit, but for those interested can find the whole news item here in russkie kontury info /news/rasovyj_pornoskandal_potrjas_organizaciju_russkikh_nacistov_foto/2012-02-28-563 enter under your own responsibility) I read the posts with opinions I don't share so I joined the party and gave my own. One can't just pretend to bring up such a polemic topic and expect everybody else to keep silent, agree with everything you say or keep politically correct in an oasis of freedom like this.

I came back on this thread since someone told me you were calling me out.

Yeah I launched this topic, first after seeing the Lika comment on multiculturalism, and secondly after witnessing after months here, and on ROK the same claims from people who are of white ethnicity, from what I understood. It was not started by me, far from that. The arguments about South Africa for example have been already discussed on this forum. Some users ( don't remember the names) said that they preferred the country to return to its previous state during Apartheid, with white people on top, because you know, for economic and welfare reasons, only them can bring the country ( and implying the continent) to the top.

Yeah I will call them out on that, because I can't stand keyboard jockeys who have never been on the other side of the barrier, who just throw out the superiority of white men over the other people, because even if they don't admit it frankly, all of their arguments point to that for me. For me, someone who takes a shit load of notes over the internet to justify that Europeans are not of african descent, minimizing the Negros, etc clearly have some race issues. Not a coincidence if many people I know who have the same kinds of arguments are listed on the Front National, the nationalist party in France, who preaches all kind of nazi messages, have its leader meet widely known nazi supporters. People who truly don't give a fuck about race will not even bother bringing out data.

Discussions like this are interesting, because it shows the people I will never bother shooting the shit with, IRL, or online.

[Samseau]

(03-29-2014 08:27 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Yeah I will call them out on that, because I can't stand keyboard jockeys who have never been on the other side of the barrier, who just throw out the superiority of white men over the other people, because even if they don't admit it frankly, all of their arguments point to that for me. For me, someone who takes a shit load of notes over the internet to justify that Europeans are not of african descent, minimizing the Negros, etc clearly have some race issues.

See, this is the part of race threads that I cannot understand. Why do people (like mikado here) get so worked up over this shit? Do you really care if someone believes South Africa was better under white rule? How can that get you worked up?

I can't relate. Personally if someone told me America would be better ruled by Hispanics or Blacks or some race contrary to my own, I wouldn't even blink. I couldn't care less if someone were to say that, because it will never personally affect me. And if something doesn't affect me personally, there is no reason to care.

Ideally, race discussions would be academic in nature, but instead they always become emotional when people start accusing one another of being "secret racists" who won't admit their preferences. At this point, conversation can only shut down since there is no rebuttal "secret racists" can even make.

So instead of shutting down the conversation why not try to reason with people you disagree with? Shutting down the conversation does nothing to solve underlying hostilities, it does nothing to promote understanding, and it creates a hostile environment where people are less likely to talk or trust one another.

Judging from the fact that race threads always pop up, especially from new members (as old members have learned to avoid talking about race in order to avoid bannings) it's obvious that men the world over have a deep interest on the topic of race. Instead of people going full apeshit when these threads appear, and instead of insulting various races, why can't people just discuss things calmly like the Britney Spears Wall Victim thread?