[Sturmgeist]

(11-10-2014 06:05 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Digging up this thread again because even now after a bit of experience under my belt I'm encountering this kind of stuff again.

The other day I told this girl I've been working on for a week to go have a drink, and she called me saying she loves hanging out with me but she doesn't want to be my girlfriend. This is stupid because I didn't give any boyfriend vibe at all. I grab her ass, manhandling her around, make fun of her, call her baby, kissed her, all the heavy kino stuff. Maybe she equates having sex with being in a LTR?

Tonight just went on another date with another girl. Good dancing, good isolation and kino. Made out at the bar. Then she started talking about all this stuff "why did you do that/I have someone/how do I know if you are serious? You do that to every girl" I actually do flirt with every girl in our mutual social circle. I laughed it off "hey it's not my problem" and keep pushing but couldn't get her to come to my place for the bang.

There must be something I'm doing wrong here.

Agree and amplify.

"You do that to every girl."
"You're damn right I do."

[Downtown]

I deliberately player zone myself. early on i lay it out there that I am indeed only looking for sexual relationships. saves me a lot of time and headache, but definitely lets some good ones slip by.

it also keeps my karma in check. i dont like lies or misdirection.

i'm definitely in IDGAF zone and well, IDGAF about that either ha.

women seem to respond well to that.

[kaotic]

(11-11-2014 03:22 PM)Downtown Wrote:  

I deliberately player zone myself. early on i lay it out there that I am indeed only looking for sexual relationships. saves me a lot of time and headache, but definitely lets some good ones slip by.

it also keeps my karma in check. i dont like lies or misdirection.

i'm definitely in IDGAF zone and well, IDGAF about that either ha.

women seem to respond well to that.

I guess that works.

I've taken the route into guiding any conversation to sex and men and woman.

I drop red pill truths like, men and women could never be friends, bilogically speaking men were meant to breed with as many women as possible, each sex decides to sleep with someone within 10 seconds of eye contact etc etc

You see where I'm going with this, most women tend to agree and laugh.

So you're dropping hints, but not outright saying hey I'm only looking for DTF' FWB's.

It leaves a little more mystery and keeps her guessing.

[StrikeBack]

I think some of you are missing the context here. To continue from my Pook theme earlier...

We can assume that Dalaran appears as an attractive guy who's comfortable with sexual escalations. However, he's pawing women sexually in public. It's a too overt way to display his sexuality, when he doesn't need to. What he's triggering is ASD, and he's making himself appear thirsty while making the women feel like sluts. Can you imagine James Bond getting gropey and making out with women in public, for example?

He needs to be more subtle in public, and saves the aggression for when he's successfully isolated the girl in private where it can actually lead to sex. This is doubly important in typical social circle game (his case) as girls talk, and the girl he's after doesn't want others to think she's easy.

The agree & amplify above, like some other responses, will just lead to arguing with the girl over silly BS, while missing the context entirely.

[The_e_man]

Do you guys think its possible for a girl to "player-zone" you as a way to softly reject you while not hurting your feelings?

I've recently posted a thread about not being able to secure day 2's after my SNLs and I noticed a good chunk of those girls give me the "your such a player" gambit. Yet I am under the impression that a girl desperately wants a player.
So I'm starting to wonder if women do this as a way to politely reject you while still having you think your the big man.

[Dalaran1991]

(11-11-2014 09:58 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

I think some of you are missing the context here. To continue from my Pook theme earlier...

We can assume that Dalaran appears as an attractive guy who's comfortable with sexual escalations. However, he's pawing women sexually in public. It's a too overt way to display his sexuality, when he doesn't need to. What he's triggering is ASD, and he's making himself appear thirsty while making the women feel like sluts. Can you imagine James Bond getting gropey and making out with women in public, for example?

He needs to be more subtle in public, and saves the aggression for when he's successfully isolated the girl in private where it can actually lead to sex. This is doubly important in typical social circle game (his case) as girls talk, and the girl he's after doesn't want others to think she's easy.

The agree & amplify above, like some other responses, will just lead to arguing with the girl over silly BS, while missing the context entirely.

Excellent remark. In fact the other day two girls at the same circle make the same remarks to me at two separate occasion "wow you are really the
ladies man, you like to manhandle girls". its unnecessary because already Im very comfortable with teasing and kinoing girls.

A lot of us here have the mindset "a player reputation makes panties drop", I dont find it to be the case at least here. Girls guard their reputation and dont want to be seen as just the next conquest.

[CurtisMartin]

what is LMR, ASD, SMV?

[DJ-Matt]

Last Minute Resistance and Sexual Marketplace Value.

[Dat ass]

I think i can relate with this, it is the second time it happes to me, fuck it i'm angry.

First time i posted about it some days ago, girl is very close, i kiss, she tells me that i do to every girl, i try to use the "no big deal, player vibe", so i'm like yeah why not, i'm just getting fun, i'm on vacation.

She gets angry and starts to tell me to leave and kiss others, i'm like WTF. I tought it might be because she was with her group and she felt slutty, so she is making that excuse to make me leave, i took her to a private part, gave her a long kiss and asked for her number.

Went home, a couple of days texted her, she doesn't answer, as the relaxed player side didn't work, i tried to put a nice guy routine and told her that she is misinterpreting stuff, i'm not that kind of guy, she tells me "no, everything it's good, you are on vacation, just having fun ". She didn't wanna come, so i could feel she was bitter, I realized she wanted me to stay that night, she was responsive to my kissing, i freaked out the fact that she was pushing me and that i didn't saw logistics very friendly, people have told me that girls here don't usually go for ONS, more if she is with friends who will judge her, but she was horny, her body was all against me, and proably expecting me to create some bubble to rationalize that she wasn't just another one, damn it.

The other night this girl saw me having fun with other girls that where giving me IOI's, she opens us, i see her kissing another guy, she looks me in the eyes, i go to another place thinking well fuck it, he got her. I'm dancing with some girl who is laughing of everything i say. This girl come and look at me, i ignore her, and then when the girl i'm dancing left, i go to look for the other one. She let me kiss her just after i open my mouth. She said that she is with her friends. I text her and manage to go out with her, i can't take her to my place due my long term girlfriend at time was a close friend of my neighbor.

We go to a park to drink. As my logistics are fucked up, it seems that the only way would be make her horny and take her to a love hotel. I go full caveman and grope her in the park, i can see, she wasn't comfortable with that hahah, she continues telling in a somewhat bitter way, how a great casanova i am and how i seem to be good to attract other girls.

I guess that is the reason you have that problem too, i have went home with girls who have given me a lot less IOI's and they didn't have any problem with me groping them (in private or in a dark alley of a club), she was very interested but the fact that i was so aggressive in a public space (there was barely anyone in the park anyway but she still felt embarassed) make her become aware of me. I couldn't push her to the love hotel and couldn't take her out again.

I remember people have told me to get numbers and not try to bang the same night (or propose it so aggressively), because "girls here are not into that" in the second case i could have played better and follow that rule.

But the first case makes me think that i need to push harder when girls are horny no matter what they say or the logistics are. I guess the criteria to not be seen as a creep is how horny they are?, how dark and isolated is this place?

Most of the bangs that i had where ONS, with girls that were not even giving me so much IOI's, but didn't complaint either with me escalating.

[jariel]

This thread reminds me of an exchange I had once with a girl who came over to my house late at night and then randomly decided to put it out there that we weren't going to have sex:

Quote:

Chick: "Look, you seem cool and all, but I know how you players are, you're just trying to rip and dip, and I'm not that kind of girl so..."

Me: "Oh, so you came over to let me know that we're not going to make love tonight?"

Chick: "Well I didn't come over just to tell you that, but I just thought that maybe you thought, I mean well yes, there will be no lovemaking between you and I tonight."

Me: "You haven't taken the time to get to know me yet so it's understandable you don't know how I think. I also don't think we've connected enough mentally nor emotionally to advance to the lovemaking stage of the relationship."

Chick: "Right, but just because I'm saying that, doesn't mean I'm not attracted to you."

Me: "Well I can see that in your eyes, I'm attracted to you too, curious, and willing to take the time to find out more, the connection is there, it's just a matter of when, not if."

Chick: "Damn, really?"

Me: "Yes Mami, I mean, we're on the same page. [holds her hand]"

Chick: "Well that's good, I feel comfortable now that you said that."

Me: [kiss her] "I'm comfortable with you too, so now that we both feel that way you're going to follow me upstairs, and what happens tonight between you and I will be it's own thing, and we'll let the lovemaking happen when it happens."

We fucked all night.

[jariel]

When girls are trying to be "cautious", you have to co-sign their concerns, even voice them yourself.

"I just think we might be moving too fast."

"You know, I've been thinking the same thing. I like what we have right now, I'm willing to go with the flow."

If she's down, what she's really waiting for is to be talked to into it, then she'll rationalize it as being swept up in a moment.

Out-dueling LMR is a higher level of game, some of your LMR is from chicks who weren't really down to begin with, you just missed the signs, the rest is down chicks who are waiting for you to push the right buttons so they can feel comfortable with proceeding.

[Dalaran1991]

(02-03-2015 03:03 PM)jariel Wrote:  

When girls are trying to be "cautious", you have to co-sign their concerns, even voice them yourself.

"I just think we might be moving too fast."

"You know, I've been thinking the same thing. I like what we have right now, I'm willing to go with the flow."

If she's down, what she's really waiting for is to be talked to into it, then she'll rationalize it as being swept up in a moment.

Out-dueling LMR is a higher level of game, some of your LMR is from chicks who weren't really down to begin with, you just missed the signs, the rest is down chicks who are waiting for you to push the right buttons so they can feel comfortable with proceeding.

So we're gonna have to talk about feelings now? Great. I feel so awkward already.

I'm already not comfortable voicing my own concerns to my bros, much less to a chick who is looking to you for leading.

I guess this is why I'm shit at the comfort game.

[CactusCat589]

They aren't your feelings or concerns, you're just saying what needs to be said in order to make progress.

[TravelerKai]

This is why guys must have a tiered system to deal with women.

A 50 year old and smooth player/Natural taught this to me.

The Barn - Keep your sweet, innocent like, Low N count, LTR/Wife material women in here. Don't pressure them too much. Date them. Take them out on weekends. Like a prized cow you give these the good hay and keep em brushed.

The Pasture (With the fence) - Keep your girls that are not LTR material in here. Treat them nice but you want to set and maintain boundaries. Never give them access to anything that can hurt you. Think Arm's Length. They are down to fuck. They are your fuck buddies that you can call when you need some loving and they enjoy your company. They will make time for you if they are free and if you guys cannot sync up, she isn't trippin. (And nor should you). Keep you some 5-7s in here.

The field/range or Pasture with no fence - ONS go in here. Fuck buddies. Women that already have a man, just might want some good dick from a dude. These will give you the drawls. This area is where you experiment with your game. Throw grenades out here. This area is a minefield. Dick pics. Whipping it out. Being blunt. Telling her, "Girl you better come over here and give me that pussy and quit playing with me." Asshole game is the best here. You do not ultimately care what happens in here because they are just merely in your sphere of influence. They come in and out as they please. The other cattle thieves can rope them and you would never give a shit.

As women improve their standing with you, feel free to move them from the pasture to the barn, or back out if they cop an attitude you do not like.

You must give yourself options because women can tell when you are thirsty or not. Your lack of thirst will always make them more curious than they were at first. Bitches are nosy. They want to know who you are fucking, whether or not you and her are fucking or not. Keep the mystery alive.

A good example:

"Do you have other girlfriends?"

Why? Anyone tell you something?

No... Im just asking you if you have another woman or not.

I'm here with you right now.

If she keeps asking, then go ahead and say no you dont. but that seed has been planted that someone else is vying for your attention. This turns on pre-validation or preselection game instantly. If she starts with that exclusive stuff, reply back saying, you can do exclusive but you need something in return. A be dead serious about it.

Another thing. You need to be more straight up with some of these women. You need to let them know that, you are constantly taking care of their emotional or being attentive to what they need. Tell them that and then follow up with, "I am a man and I have needs that I have to attend to, just like you do with your needs." Then you can give them that blank and serious look. You could even say, "Enough with the bullshit, You gonna give me those drawls or what?" But you better say it with enough conviction that you are about to grab your keys and leave. If she say, no, then walk off.

[TravelerKai]

I also want to add that based upon your posts a reoccurring theme I see is that your portfolio sucks. You need options brother. All men do. You cannot rush for pussy with high quality candidates and strong wife material women. Use your hoes for that. When you are not thirsty your game is A grade. So when the time does come, she will be ready and you can do your thing.

Every dude needs a diverse herd of heifers. Real talk.

Also you are in France! Didn't they invent drama? You better create some tension and drama with these women. Have other women loud while you are on the phone. Make intentional mistakes to grab that curiosity. These aren't black women or hot blooded Latinas are they? If not, then work some tryst and scandal and see how they react. Romance is not good guy game. Romance is lustful in nature. So stir the pot.

[Sonoma]

Got shit tested and failedddd

[jariel]

(02-03-2015 04:56 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

This is why guys must have a tiered system to deal with women.

A 50 year old and smooth player/Natural taught this to me.

The Barn - Keep your sweet, innocent like, Low N count, LTR/Wife material women in here. Don't pressure them too much. Date them. Take them out on weekends. Like a prized cow you give these the good hay and keep em brushed.

The Pasture (With the fence) - Keep your girls that are not LTR material in here. Treat them nice but you want to set and maintain boundaries. Never give them access to anything that can hurt you. Think Arm's Length. They are down to fuck. They are your fuck buddies that you can call when you need some loving and they enjoy your company. They will make time for you if they are free and if you guys cannot sync up, she isn't trippin. (And nor should you). Keep you some 5-7s in here.

The field/range or Pasture with no fence - ONS go in here. Fuck buddies. Women that already have a man, just might want some good dick from a dude. These will give you the drawls. This area is where you experiment with your game. Throw grenades out here. This area is a minefield. Dick pics. Whipping it out. Being blunt. Telling her, "Girl you better come over here and give me that pussy and quit playing with me." Asshole game is the best here. You do not ultimately care what happens in here because they are just merely in your sphere of influence. They come in and out as they please. The other cattle thieves can rope them and you would never give a shit.

As women improve their standing with you, feel free to move them from the pasture to the barn, or back out if they cop an attitude you do not like.

You must give yourself options because women can tell when you are thirsty or not. Your lack of thirst will always make them more curious than they were at first. Bitches are nosy. They want to know who you are fucking, whether or not you and her are fucking or not. Keep the mystery alive.

A good example:

"Do you have other girlfriends?"

Why? Anyone tell you something?

No... Im just asking you if you have another woman or not.

I'm here with you right now.

If she keeps asking, then go ahead and say no you dont. but that seed has been planted that someone else is vying for your attention. This turns on pre-validation or preselection game instantly. If she starts with that exclusive stuff, reply back saying, you can do exclusive but you need something in return. A be dead serious about it.

Another thing. You need to be more straight up with some of these women. You need to let them know that, you are constantly taking care of their emotional or being attentive to what they need. Tell them that and then follow up with, "I am a man and I have needs that I have to attend to, just like you do with your needs." Then you can give them that blank and serious look. You could even say, "Enough with the bullshit, You gonna give me those drawls or what?" But you better say it with enough conviction that you are about to grab your keys and leave. If she say, no, then walk off.

(02-03-2015 06:07 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

I also want to add that based upon your posts a reoccurring theme I see is that your portfolio sucks. You need options brother. All men do. You cannot rush for pussy with high quality candidates and strong wife material women. Use your hoes for that. When you are not thirsty your game is A grade. So when the time does come, she will be ready and you can do your thing.

Every dude needs a diverse herd of heifers. Real talk.

Also you are in France! Didn't they invent drama? You better create some tension and drama with these women. Have other women loud while you are on the phone. Make intentional mistakes to grab that curiosity. These aren't black women or hot blooded Latinas are they? If not, then work some tryst and scandal and see how they react. Romance is not good guy game. Romance is lustful in nature. So stir the pot.

[tacolove]

Maybe you are too pushy and rushing? Building comfort and trust is an ongoing goal. Its okay to physically escalate, but you also have to emotionally and intellectually escalate as well. What do you talk to these girls about? How do you talk to them? Try to tap into their deepest feelings and some of their insecurities. If you put a girl on too much of a pedastal and spoil her too much, she will walk all over you and call the shots.

Also, set the mood. Use candles, music and other romantic stuff. Dim the lights. Give her a nice massage. If she won't kiss you, she might let you finger her or go down on her. Kiss her on the neck, on the shoulders, thighs, stomach, breasts.

[tacolove]

Yeah, I sorta agree with this. She likes him as a friend, but for some reason she isn't sexually attracted to him yet. Now, I think some of this LMR might have to do with being short and not being seen as "alpha" enough for the girl. Something is missing, and she is not seeing the guy as "cool enough, strong enough, or alpha enough."

There's also the old addage, that you shouldn't be too needy and to make sure she wants the guy and desires the guy. Tease her, use push/pull. Maintain sexual tension, but don't be needy and gropey. But, make her work for your affection, attention, and approval.

Yeah, don't make out in public. Many girls don't like it. So you need to isolate to a private place or a dark corner of the bar.

As for "being player-zoned" - she might also not "TRUST the guy." Does he just want a one-time bang or does he want a girlfriend and LTR?

Girls don't want to feel like sluts or sex-slaves. They want to feel special and treated with respect. They want to feel monogamous (even if you never see her again). They want to feel like she is the only one.

So, she might call him a player because she doesn't Trust him to be monogamous and sees him talking to much with other girls. Its fine if you want to be a player, but its not a game if she doesn't make you work for it. She wants you to tell her that "she is the only one for you."

Try saying something like: "I'm may seem like a player, but I'm just trying to find the right girl. I'm trying to find someone I can trust and be with for a while. You're not another notch on my belt, you're someone special I can date."

Sometimes it just might take a 2nd date to earn her "Trust and Comfort." You might have to commit to a monogamous relationship before she sleeps with you. (At least for a few weeks).

I know when I date inter-racially, its sometimes difficult to figure her out, her culture, or her motives/expectations. When you date inter-racially, it takes time and communication to develop "Trust and Comfort." Keep up the sexual tension and flirting, but talk and communicate as much as possible to earn her "trust and comfort." She wants to know if this is some 'horny guy' who just wants easy sex; or if he is "self-assured, confident, and WORTHY of getting her sex."

(11-12-2014 03:03 AM)The_e_man Wrote:  

Do you guys think its possible for a girl to "player-zone" you as a way to softly reject you while not hurting your feelings?

I've recently posted a thread about not being able to secure day 2's after my SNLs and I noticed a good chunk of those girls give me the "your such a player" gambit. Yet I am under the impression that a girl desperately wants a player.
So I'm starting to wonder if women do this as a way to politely reject you while still having you think your the big man.

[LINUX]

(03-25-2014 09:11 PM)Sombro Wrote:  

/shrug

"I don't like girls. I like women."

Exactly! That's what I say every time. I can't stand it when people use the words girls and boys. It's 5th grade again.

[Dalaran1991]

(02-03-2015 06:07 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Also you are in France! Didn't they invent drama? You better create some tension and drama with these women. Have other women loud while you are on the phone. Make intentional mistakes to grab that curiosity. These aren't black women or hot blooded Latinas are they? If not, then work some tryst and scandal and see how they react. Romance is not good guy game. Romance is lustful in nature. So stir the pot.

I think I made a thread about how to use drama with girls because I have no fucking clue! I thought drama only works if the girl gives a shit. I can play basic jealousy game but I don't think I'm at a level to have my own soap opera!

Oh yeah French girls love drama. Well at least the few hot sluts I do know. Not even sure if it's a cliché or they are just playing along to some cultural expectation.

I started this thread when I was as green as fresh grass and still until this day it continues to receive good advice. Talk about "passive returns"

I no longer have problem with being player-zoned anymore. Sure I've learned to be discreet, but I've come to fully embraced the fact that I want to be a player and live that lifestyle. Own up to it and bear it with pride, like a warrior bearing his scars. It's that attitude that gets women hot for you.



I realized I got to the ultimate player-zoned when, every time I told my ex "I love you" in a laughing way, she said "no you don't" sometimes I thought I meant it

[Kieran]

If you're getting the player thing often, then something could be off in your vibe, too polished, inauthentic, like a salesman too desperate for the sale. Relax, build a bit of comfort.

Really it's better than her seeing you as a nice guy, but it would seem that she still feels that she's the chooser in the interaction (and she is choosing no). It should be the other way around, and she should be concerned that saying some stupid shit like that could fuck up her chance with you.

[Kristoph]

(11-11-2014 01:28 PM)Ingocnito Wrote:  

Her calling you a player is just her way of reducing the self-image she's a whore.

Believe it or not, it may be their way of actually saying you're escalating too slowly.

I agree with this, not too long back this was happening to me with a girl, and at first I faltered and tried to wordplay my way around it. It didn't work, but on the second date when the LMR came up again I just grabbed her, spun her round and rubbed my dick on her ass while fondling her tits and kissing/biting her neck.

All pretense of 'you're too much of a player to me' or 'I'm not just another girl you're going to fuck' disappeared immediately.

[Ingocnito]

(11-11-2014 05:57 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(11-11-2014 03:22 PM)Downtown Wrote:  

I deliberately player zone myself. early on i lay it out there that I am indeed only looking for sexual relationships. saves me a lot of time and headache, but definitely lets some good ones slip by.

it also keeps my karma in check. i dont like lies or misdirection.

i'm definitely in IDGAF zone and well, IDGAF about that either ha.

women seem to respond well to that.

I guess that works.

I've taken the route into guiding any conversation to sex and men and woman.

I drop red pill truths like, men and women could never be friends, bilogically speaking men were meant to breed with as many women as possible, each sex decides to sleep with someone within 10 seconds of eye contact etc etc

You see where I'm going with this, most women tend to agree and laugh.

So you're dropping hints, but not outright saying hey I'm only looking for DTF' FWB's.

It leaves a little more mystery and keeps her guessing.

I commonly use the phrase you mentioned: "men and women could never be friends".. but mellow it out to: "men and women weren't meant to be friends.." I then have no problem explaining the red-pill truth of exactly why, and MOST women who're dtf will then agree with me. Doesn't mean per se that they will or would fuck me at that moment or soon, but it serves as a supurb pre-screening tool .

In retrospect, 4 of my last 5 fucks, we actually had this discussion at one point or another before the bang.