Making progress in my games but I recently ran into this problem twice. Disclaimer: I'm gaming in France and here it is not very common to fuck/kiss close girls on the first date except in bars/clubs.

I got the girl on a first date, had fun dancing, great kino, venue transferring her to my house, talked and had great connection. When I went in for the kiss she refused playfully. But she still cuddles with me and let me foreplay all over her cheeks and her neck. Then she asked: "You are really a player! You really go for what you want. And you like girls" To which I laughed and replied "well of course I like girls I aint gay"

I tried to kiss her several times and always got LMR. But she never left, in fact she looked quite pleased.

It's much better than before bc I tried, and even if I lose the girl I will not have to deal with friendzone and shit.

Happened twice with 2 different girls, so similar that I'm starting to think there's a French "lady school" here.

Anyway, what is happening when a girl accuses you of being a "player"? Does that mean I'm coming off too strong and need to tone my game down? Or is it just her being attracted and trying to rationalize it? In which case what should be my responses?

She is attracted. She won't call a beta a player right?

She doesn't want to be "used" like all the others, she's a special little snowflake.

That is all that LMR is, her denying what she wants in order to appear like more of a good girl.

The girls that are most attracted (read: border line obsessed) to me are that ones that know I am fucking multiple girls. I've always said it, having a players reputation is rarely a bad thing.

Keep on plowing, they will break in eventually. Best to get them a bit tipsy and horny, the alcohol inhibits the logical mind and lets them do what they really want to do.

Quote: (03-25-2014 10:08 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Then she asked: "You are really a player! You really go for what you want. And you like girls" To which I laughed and replied "well of course I like girls I aint gay"

I tried to kiss her several times and always got LMR. But she never left, in fact she looked quite pleased.

That was an invitation to tear her clothes off and ravage her.
You never ask for permission. You do what you want.

HER: "You are really a player! You really go for what you want. And you like girls"
YOU: "Only cute girls."
HER: "And you think I'm cute?"
YOU: "I haven't decided yet."

I have a dissenting opinion on these situations. I don't believe there is any such thing as being "player zoned." Or rather, being player zoned means something completely different.

Being player zoned is when a chick has you on speed-dial for booty calls. If a chick isn't fucking you, she doesn't really think of you as a player. She thinks of you as a wannabe player. And she feels safe enough around you to flirt with and tease you. She has no problem wasting your time to flatter herself with attention.

My advice is to cut out all the cutesy word play and witty banter and just keep escalating. If you get to a point where she won't go any further, just be out. Let her know that you are serious.

Quote: (03-25-2014 10:21 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

HER: "You are really a player! You really go for what you want. And you like girls"
YOU: "Only cute girls."
HER: "And you think I'm cute?"
YOU: "I haven't decided yet."

Stealing this

Quote:Quote:

If a chick isn't fucking you, she doesn't really think of you as a player. She thinks of you as a wannabe player. And she feels safe enough around you to flirt with and tease you. She has no problem wasting your time to flatter herself with attention.

My advice is to cut out all the cutesy word play and witty banter and just keep escalating. If you get to a point where she won't go any further, just be out. Let her know that your serious.

Yeah I'm really close with you on this one. That's why I keep hugging her and trying to kiss her over and over again, and every time is a "No" and then "I have to leave"

I escorted her to the bus station, took her hand and put it in mine. She smiled "you are really persistent!"

My only caveat is that, if she is indeed one of those sweet girls who like you but take time to get to the fuck, wouldn't cutting it rude mean you lose out on a potential lay?

Texted her a short one today just to see how she's doing. Got a 3-words rep : all is well. Guess this one is slipping. Fuck

Next session should go more smoothly, you stood your ground when she threw you the obvious chit test. No freak-out

You continued to build comfort and wasn't thrown off your square which works in your favor as it affirms to her that the game is IN you not just ON you. If women detect that YOU don't believe in the product you're selling (Your frame), they will be turned off.

If ever you find yourself in that scenario again, try some sly humor/amplify/divert then reset and escalate and bang accordingly.

Quote: (03-25-2014 10:37 AM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:  

You continued to build comfort and wasn't thrown off your square which works in your favor as it affirms to her that the game is IN you not just ON you. If women detect that YOU don't believe in the product you're selling (Your frame), they will be turned off.

If ever you find yourself in that scenario again, try some sly humor/amplify/divert then reset and escalate and bang accordingly.

Nicely put man. I'm glad I didn't let my game down. I was very close to trying to justify myself to her that I'm a good guy. Just when I'm about to open my mouth I managed to hold it off.

Bottom line: maintain the frame, keep pushing but don't freak the girl out I guess. Fine and dangerous line between pushing and a rape accusation.

Keep escalating without kissing. Massage her, kiss her neck and slowly go further and further. This is what I did when this happened to me and got the bang even if we didn't kiss. Some girls are weird.

Quote: (03-25-2014 10:23 AM)j r Wrote:  

I have a dissenting opinion on these situations. I don't believe there is any such thing as being "player zoned." Or rather, being player zoned means something completely different.

Being player zoned is when a chick has you on speed-dial for booty calls. If a chick isn't fucking you, she doesn't really think of you as a player. She thinks of you as a wannabe player. And she feels safe enough around you to flirt with and tease you. She has no problem wasting your time to flatter herself with attention.

My advice is to cut out all the cutesy word play and witty banter and just keep escalating. If you get to a point where she won't go any further, just be out. Let her know that you are serious.

Yes I agree with that actually. It's both a compliment and a shit test. A compliment because she probably does like you, but you're not strong enough to melt away her objections, so she is still in control to make these small shit tests to see how you react. I've usually taken it as a congruency test, to see if I would say some dumb shit, which I have in such situations.

/shrug

"I don't like girls. I like women."

Best way to deal with LMR?

Whip your dick out.

If she won't even give you a hand job, she's definitely a lost cause.

What about all the other girls you are talking to?

Some girls just have a three date rule or some other weird shit like that. The only way that I can think if to get her to losen that up on a first date is with copious amounts of booze or anything else that is going to distract get from the fact that she's in a first date.

Think about like this, in an ideal situation how would it go?

If you were johnny Depp hanging out with her in the first date you wouldn't be getting that resistance. She would feel stupid to not sleep with you. You don't literally have to becjohnny Depp.. You can create or become a powerful experience that she can be part if that will override her rules for normal guys and get her rationalization hamster revved up.

You have to reframe the situation so that it's no longer a date. It's got to be a hang or party where the rules are suspended.

I wouldn't call it "player-zoned". More like your game was pretty tight, take it as a compliment.

Quote: (03-25-2014 10:13 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

The girls that are most attracted (read: border line obsessed) to me are that ones that know I am fucking multiple girls. I've always said it, having a players reputation is rarely a bad thing.

^That, they don't seem to mind you fucking other girls. They're cool with knowing they'll get to be ravished by you once a week.

Could be a dangerous border though, I think more than once a week and they might cross that borderline obsessed line and start to get feelings.

Quote: (03-25-2014 09:19 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

Best way to deal with LMR?

Whip your dick out.

If she won't even give you a hand job, she's definitely a lost cause.

That move never fails during LMR, just whip it out.

I thought being "player-zoned" meant that your friend´s girl friends wont let you talk to her friends, making shitty excuses to take them away from you when you get to talk to them at parties, where you don´t get invited anymore.

Betray me once, shame on you. Betray me twice, shame on me

I actually don't mind getting fucked over. It tells me what I need to know about the person.
However, once somebody has backstabbed me in any shape or form, I do not entrust them with any secret or important things anymore.
Find some friends you can fully trust

Thanks people for the contributions. It will help a lot next time with the next girl for me. Though I agree with the few posts that said I was good but not good enough. I didn't get the bang and prolly won't.

After two days I text her to go grab dinner. She said "I finish late and actually wants to stay quiet until the next week, if you don't mind"

Me: "A quiet exotic dinner will be good for you and your music. How about tmr if u prefer?"

Her: "No thanks, really...."

Next time, I'll get her to drink more. Or just be upfront about having sex. Lesson learned.

I'm thinking "player zoned" would be straight up when a girl thinks you just want to use her to put a notch in your belt/booty call and she isn't down for that because she "wants something real."

Sounds to me like you could have easily banged her - but I know what it's like when you're in the moment and your dick, gut, and brain are all arguing because you can't decide whether you really should back off or be more direct and escalate.

Quote: (03-26-2014 02:10 PM)little wing Wrote:  

Betray me once, shame on you. Betray me twice, shame on me

I actually don't mind getting fucked over. It tells me what I need to know about the person.
However, once somebody has backstabbed me in any shape or form, I do not entrust them with any secret or important things anymore.
Find some friends you can fully trust

I only just noticed I posted in the wrong thread.
Sorry, please ignore

Digging up this thread again because even now after a bit of experience under my belt I'm encountering this kind of stuff again.

The other day I told this girl I've been working on for a week to go have a drink, and she called me saying she loves hanging out with me but she doesn't want to be my girlfriend. This is stupid because I didn't give any boyfriend vibe at all. I grab her ass, manhandling her around, make fun of her, call her baby, kissed her, all the heavy kino stuff. Maybe she equates having sex with being in a LTR?

Tonight just went on another date with another girl. Good dancing, good isolation and kino. Made out at the bar. Then she started talking about all this stuff "why did you do that/I have someone/how do I know if you are serious? You do that to every girl" I actually do flirt with every girl in our mutual social circle. I laughed it off "hey it's not my problem" and keep pushing but couldn't get her to come to my place for the bang.

There must be something I'm doing wrong here.

Quote: (11-10-2014 06:05 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Digging up this thread again because even now after a bit of experience under my belt I'm encountering this kind of stuff again.

The other day I told this girl I've been working on for a week to go have a drink, and she called me saying she loves hanging out with me but she doesn't want to be my girlfriend. This is stupid because I didn't give any boyfriend vibe at all. I grab her ass, manhandling her around, make fun of her, call her baby, kissed her, all the heavy kino stuff. Maybe she equates having sex with being in a LTR?

Tonight just went on another date with another girl. Good dancing, good isolation and kino. Made out at the bar. Then she started talking about all this stuff "why did you do that/I have someone/how do I know if you are serious? You do that to every girl" I actually do flirt with every girl in our mutual social circle. I laughed it off "hey it's not my problem" and keep pushing but couldn't get her to come to my place for the bang.

There must be something I'm doing wrong here.

I'm immediately reminded of a post from The Book of Pook (my Red Pill awakening):

http://no-maam.blogspot.ca/2004/07/pook-...r-not.html

Quote:Quote:

Years ago, when I first came to this forum, I was a Nice Guy. How am I going to get the women? One thing I said back then was KINOING. I said it because IT WORKED. I said, "Kinoing turns you into a SEXUAL BEING to her. If you do NOT kino her, she will see you sexually as a mannequin. Why? Because mannequins do not initiate kino."

Years later...

I do not kino a chick, certainly not on dates at first.

"Contradiction! Pook is contradicted!"

What you're forgetting is that after years, I am no longer that old Nice Guy.

The Nice Guy comes across to the woman as BORING and sexually a zero. Nice Guys also seem safe. So when I started kinoing and stuff, I got an INSTANT REACTION from her. Why, all of a sudden I am a Sexual Being!

One difference from those old Nice Guy days is that I've gained 30 + pounds of muscle mass, dress better, talk better, more confidant, etc. I am ALREADY a Sexual Being. If I start kinoing a girl now, I will be seen as coming on too strong and too desperate.

This is why I now agree wtih Anti-Dump in that archived thread. I'm not FOR or AGAINST kino. I also wouldn't recommend Nice Guys to act like how I am now.

So now I disregard talking about kino or 'how you say things' and just talk about sexuality. I'm already a sexual being now, there is no need for me to kino a girl. She will know I'm a sexual being already. I do not need to touch her.

But the Nice Guy needs to embrace his sexuality. He is a sexual dud. You need to LOOK, ACT, and THINK like a guy.

I've been through a similar journey myself.

Strikeback, this is a very good post. You just woke me up from a game reality I forgot.

I'm no longer the nice guy I was before I came here. And certainly I'm a lot less nice than when I first started this thread months ago.

I always compare myself to the old self from before transformation and keep hammering the same thing into my head as years ago but I forgot that some of that is no longer conducive to me. I might have come off as too strong while I was constantly being afraid of being the nice guy.

Game needs to evolve and change with your own personal progress. On the forum we tend to always err on the side of aggression so I guess that got to me.

IMO all these girls push back is just LMR and if you don't engage with it verbally but instead just keep escalating physically you should get through it i.e. just say "ok" or "uh huh"
If she likes what you are doing/how you are making her feel that will trump what her head is telling her, particularly with a couple of drinks in her.

I had this situation the other day. Went on a date with a girl, all went well, made out during a walk, then drove her back to her place. Started making out with her in the car when we pulled up and she pushed my hands away when I started going up her leg. She must have said "Good night" to me 3 or 4 times and i just smiled, said "OK" and kept doing what I was doing.
Then she said "fuck it, come inside" --> Bang.

My guess is that you weren't turning these girls on enough with that you were doing as they were able to override their emotions and feelings of pleasure with "logic".

Quote: (11-10-2014 10:36 PM)Roardog Wrote:  

Started making out with her in the car when we pulled up and she pushed my hands away when I started going up her leg. She must have said "Good night" to me 3 or 4 times and i just smiled, said "OK" and kept doing what I was doing.
Then she said "fuck it, come inside" --> Bang.

classic.

Quote: (03-25-2014 10:08 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Making progress in my games but I recently ran into this problem twice. Disclaimer: I'm gaming in France and here it is not very common to fuck/kiss close girls on the first date except in bars/clubs.

I got the girl on a first date, had fun dancing, great kino, venue transferring her to my house, talked and had great connection. When I went in for the kiss she refused playfully. But she still cuddles with me and let me foreplay all over her cheeks and her neck. Then she asked: "You are really a player! You really go for what you want. And you like girls" To which I laughed and replied "well of course I like girls I aint gay"

I tried to kiss her several times and always got LMR. But she never left, in fact she looked quite pleased.

It's much better than before bc I tried, and even if I lose the girl I will not have to deal with friendzone and shit.

Happened twice with 2 different girls, so similar that I'm starting to think there's a French "lady school" here.

Anyway, what is happening when a girl accuses you of being a "player"? Does that mean I'm coming off too strong and need to tone my game down? Or is it just her being attracted and trying to rationalize it? In which case what should be my responses?

Her calling you a player is just her way of reducing the self-image she's a whore.

Believe it or not, it may be their way of actually saying you're escalating too slowly. I don't want a girl to have the time to think I might be a player or not if the escalation is in full stride.

I've had same thing occur with a 9 who just wouldn't give it up, told me same shit.

In retrospect, I was so concerned about not fucking it up and kept kino and foreplay going so long that while it may have aroused her even more, equally so, it gave her time to build up a greater level of LMR, rather than grasping the reins and driving my point home.. pun intended.