[WestCoast]

^ all I am saying is you need a very minimal amount of game that is it. Also yes I will take being successful and having weak social skills if that were the case because it takes less than 2-3 months to fix those problems.

What kinda game do you need? I have stated from experience it took me less than 5 hours a week of practice to get extremely good.

So... I don't see the point of the post then.

---

What I mean by taking it seriously is I mean this

"I am going to go out of my way to go and game"

I have done that before = colossal waste of time.

Kick back, game when girls are around you. They should be if you live a great life.

---

Cmq in the post you quoted I specifically put *'s around the game because you don't need much at all to be honest.

I know many guys with below average game with stunners, but they are wildly successful in the rest of their lives. That's when you realize game is a hobby not a serious affair (unless it is your profession yet again)

[Christian McQueen]

"What kinda game do you need? I have stated from experience it took me less than 5 hours a week of practice to get extremely good."

^But you also stated that you're not an average male. I'm speaking to the AVERAGE male on here.

For the AVERAGE male it takes more than 5 hours a week.

If you counterpoint that with myself not being average and we go with that, then if I have put in easily 10,000 hours of game and I'm NOT average (based on your opinion), then how much MORE time would an average guy need to put in to become Great at Game?

[WestCoast]

^ same answer.

5 hours max.

You spend time lifting, building a career or business, blah blah

Then you just game on your free time.

Give yourself 5 hours to go out once a week. For fun on a Saturday (easiest day for a one night stand)

You'll be good to go.

After 5 years, you'll have strong game, a nice body and a sweet bank roll to boot. You will have spoken to thousands of chicks, no negative impact on your health and no negative impact on your bank account.

Not sure how this is even refutable.

I'll be generous and raise this to 6 hours a week of pure dedicated game time (for dudes who need 50+ chicks or something crazy). If you want. In that case go out Thursday and Saturday night 3 hours. $20-50 a pop. Good to go.

[Christian McQueen]

"after 5 years"

^Makes more sense based on your calculations to double that and cut the time in half.

An extra night a week and based on that working, then 2.5 years.

Reality is though, in order to become great one has to treat it with respect and that's my point: Game is necessary and should be respected for what it is.

We've exhausted our debate and while I disagree, I do so with respect.

At the end of the day everyone is going to do what they're going to do regardless of our opinions, but I wanted to shed light on the fact that Lifestyle ALONE does not = Game and never will.

The right balance of developing your Game and your Lifestyle concurrently, I believe is the right solution. Ignoring Game and expecting to use your lifestyle to have girls around you = heading into Sugar Daddy and Provider territory.

Only focusing on Game may leave your Lifestyle suffering, so balance is key.

Lastly, you may have a Lifestyle and be Popular Paul (because bitches can be leeches), but if you only have Game you will ALWAYS have a flow of hot pussy who want to be around you for you and how you make them feel.

[soup]

(03-20-2014 03:28 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

^ same answer.

5 hours max.

You spend time lifting, building a career or business, blah blah

Then you just game on your free time.

Give yourself 5 hours to go out once a week. For fun on a Saturday (easiest day for a one night stand)

You'll be good to go.

After 5 years, you'll have strong game, a nice body and a sweet bank roll to boot. You will have spoken to thousands of chicks, no negative impact on your health and no negative impact on your bank account.

Not sure how this is even refutable.

I'll be generous and raise this to 6 hours a week of pure dedicated game time (for dudes who need 50+ chicks or something crazy). If you want. In that case go out Thursday and Saturday night 3 hours. $20-50 a pop. Good to go.

I don't believe you can really become great at anything with throwing yourself into it.

I am a believer of building skills slowly over time, but for guys who are just getting into game, there is so much competition, so much to learn, so much to internalize..

I don't believe in the concept of a "weekend warrior" player. I think it's probably better to just be celibate.

It's aiming low.

Things are becoming very extreme black/white in the dating world. You have to always be ahead of the other guy.. especially if you only go out on the weekends when EVERY GUY is out there trying to pull.

I doubt you will develop the edge to beat these guys out unless you really learn how to do this shit.

This is not an easy pill to swallow.

There is no safe road.

Getting good at game takes risk, trial and error.. massive number crunching.

I say go hard or stay home.

[Samseau]

I think learning game is slow but easy. That's how it was for me, anyways. I also think there will be a time when young guys are just getting into the game will be obsessed with the game. Eventually they will get a lot out of it but move on, while keeping game in the background. That's how it is for me, anyways.

[WestCoast]

That's fine we can disagree.

You'll have a hard time getting many notches your first couple years I stated specifically 4 and 6 my first two years. Not many at all.

All I had time for was 5 hours a week.

It's really not that competitive out there come on now, you guys are making this game shit seem like a warzone or something.

How can game be so "hard" if you guys have been doing this for several years. It really isn't that hard to learn.

5 hours a week. For fun on Saturdays maybe add a Thursday (unnecessary) and just game hicks during your day.

do NOT spend more than 5 hours a week on game UNLESS it is specifically because the girl is around you (ie: you had a meeting, you were at the gym, you were getting food, etc.)

You will cross hundreds of chicks a day, just don't stay at home and twiddle your thumbs.

Different strokes my advice is in here.

[Christian McQueen]

Also, Game is not just about ONS's from the club.

Having true Game is having the ability to handle:

-ONS's in a nightlife environment
-DayGame
-Relationship Game
-Harem Control

Just being able to go out and pull a chick for a ONS is the 1st step. For cats wanting a gf etc, that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I was good at ONS Game for years but had terrible LTR Game until I went through experiences that taught me that Game doesn't end after you fuck her. It's just the beginning.

[WestCoast]

^ I don't understand that will come over the years if you put in the 5 hours a week.

As I noted I took game "seriously" one year and got in the 30s. I also had a chick on the side "LTR game" or whatever you want to call it.

That was the dumbest mistake of my life. Too much time wasted, I'll never get it back.

[Christian McQueen]

Can't forget that Game and Money are not mutually exclusive.

I've got friends who had mad game and not more than 2 nickels to rub together who married extremely wealthy women, who even if they divorce have guaranteed money the rest of their lives (pre-nup aggreements).

Or the Scott Disick types who use Game to drive around in their Rolls Royce all day and rock custom suits at no cost to themselves, due to knocking up the right chick.

Don't limit Game and it won't limit you.

[WestCoast]

^ so you're advocating getting extremely good at game to be a reverse gold digger?

What kinda man is that?

You've honestly lost me but I guess others seem to be on your side so I'll assume I am not seeing something here.

5 hours of play time and just game in your day to day activities. You're not gonna be attacked by a herd of super gamers or something if you live in a major city.

[Christian McQueen]

^Absolutely not.

I always advocate getting your own money as a man and being independent, I'm merely saying their are outliers in Game that use it to amass wealth too, in order to make the point that focusing on Game doesn't = poverty.

[WestCoast]

^ okay so how many hours are you saying a young guy should dedicate to game?

Ie: stop whatever you are doing and go game?

I said 5 hours or so is more than enough.

[Christian McQueen]

Maybe WC and I missed our calling and should have opened a law firm together, cuz we both like to debate.

[WestCoast]

^ nah I am just asking.

You really think a dude should spend more than 5 or 6 hours of his life per week on game?

I think that's crazy.

[Christian McQueen]

If he wants to become really good then...

-Fri and Sat night, with another random night thrown in during the week.

-Plus day gaming when girls cross his path.

A young guy can go hard working and staying out till 2am and still get up no problem. That's part of being young and having energy.

Actual hours a week: 15 on average.

So even if a cat works 50 hours a week, throw the 15 on top and he's still working harder than most people and still dedicating more time to Game then most and it's very doable.

His reward? Money + Pussy and at an accelerated rate.

[Christian McQueen]

A part of that 15 hours is time spent Texting, on a Date, having sex etc.

It's not much if you break it up.

[WestCoast]

Fair enough. I think that's overkill but that's just me. 3 nights a week is a lot of damage to your body unless you don't drink then I guess you're really really really in love with going out.

I wouldn't do it. Again different strokes.

I like to be efficient "you can come with me or not I don't care"

Because when they say yes, you know the bang is in the bag.

---

All your energy into building a company or career when you're young

5 hours a week for stress relief

Rest of time only game if they are in your path. At the gym, at the grocery store, at events you attend etc.

The key is just to live an active life. Ie: lifestyle.

[Christian McQueen]

(03-20-2014 04:09 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Fair enough. I think that's overkill but that's just me. 3 nights a week is a lot of damage to your body unless you don't drink then I guess you're really really really in love with going out.

I wouldn't do it. Again different strokes.

I like to be efficient "you can come with me or not I don't care"

Because when they say yes, you know the bang is in the bag.

I agree with this as a part of my own Game, but for newbies, just building up the confidence to have that Frame and Confidence to approach multiple girls and pull that off takes effort and time.

[bacan]

WC are you counting dates in those hours or just bars/clubs?

[WestCoast]

I would tell a newbie this.

"See a girl go fucking talk to her"

That's it.

Every single time in every awkward situation possible it doesn't matter.

See a girl at the gym? Say anything a hello is just fine.

See a girl on the bus going to work? say "hey that watch is Michael Kors right?"

See a girl at an event say what's up.

See a girl when you're getting pizza hit on her if she is the person at the cash register.

5 hours = pure stress relief rage whatever.

No reason to stop everything like the world is ending just to get the stupid notch.
---

Bacan I don't really go on dates.

I say "hey I am going to be here for xyz come by".

If they say no I just text the same message to a different girl.

My 5 hours is split between a new girl I really like and clubbing.

If I have a client I have to take out to dinner I say "come here" if they say yes, I just time it so as I am leaving they can come out or not.

doesn't impact my day at all.

I don't see a point to go out 24/7/365 unless you're on vacation.

I DO take vacation game VERY seriously. Why? There is nothing else to do! I am on vacation!

So I go out every single day (you can see that in my Colombia, Mexico, Iceland, frankfurt, Amsterdam etc. Reports)

[RexImperator]

(03-20-2014 04:02 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

Maybe WC and I missed our calling and should have opened a law firm together, cuz we both like to debate.

Then I guess one could say you are both master debaters.

[Christian McQueen]

(03-20-2014 04:15 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

(03-20-2014 04:02 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  

Maybe WC and I missed our calling and should have opened a law firm together, cuz we both like to debate.

Then I guess one could say you are both master debaters.

Better than Masterbaters

[Christian McQueen]

At the end of the day people get different dopamine hits over different successes.

For WC depositing a massive check obviously gives him a hit of pleasure and satisfaction. Nothing wrong with that.

We all like money for sure, but some are more motivated by having these 2 girls nibbling on our cock and balls in a Vegas suite.



To each their own.

Maybe I have more of a European style of life, appreciating my free time over slaving away.

[scorpion]

While I think that making money and cultivating a high level of game are both worthy pursuits, if your only goals in life are centered on money and pussy you're ultimately going to find yourself facing an existential crisis. The hedonistic pleasures offered by both money and women are only capable of providing a certain amount of enjoyment and satisfaction, and the perverse fact is that the greater your success in each area, the less pleasure you will receive from it. For example, losing your virginity is a hundred times as memorable and exciting as hitting your 200th or 300th notch, and making your first million will give you more satisfaction than going from $10 billion to $50 billion.

Guys who have reached the summit in either of these areas have realized how meaningless it all is. Look at the wealthiest guys in the world. What do they mostly do with their money? Give it away! They realize that it's impossible for them to derive any extra hedonistic pleasure from their money past a certain point. The more money they make, the more they have to give away. Similarly, look at a guy like Brad Pitt. World class looks, status and fame. He could literally bed a new 9 every night for the rest of his life if he were so inclined. He could live the ultimate hedonistic lifestyle. What does he do instead? He is a serial monogamist, now married with a bunch of kids, focused on creating a legacy through his career and charitable work.

If you want satisfaction and happiness over the long term, you need to cultivate goals that are not material focused and hedonistic in nature. The funny thing is, I think McQueen and WestCoast both realize this to an extent already - McQueen obviously gets a great deal of pleasure from helping other guys improve themselves, and WestCoast is talking about the virtues of being able to afford paying for relatives medical expenses. It's stuff like that that ultimately gives a man satisfaction, not another notch on the bedpost or another zero in the bank account.