[Kieran]

(03-21-2014 11:16 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(03-21-2014 08:22 AM)bacan Wrote:  

WIA you're a good poster .. Just share your opinion

I'm not trying to get all meltdown and head out like the homey Hencredible...

But

Sure GLL's advice might be sales copy, preaching to the converted, but

HE'S WRONG.
HE'S DEAD WRONG.
HE'S WRONGER THAN LINDY WEST IN A PAIR OF LULULEMON'S

And for the various people talking about how game hasn't been defined, lemme define it for you


Game is what you do and say to make a girl do what you want her to do.

Period.

The term "game" doesn't come from a book written by Neil Strauss.

They "borrowed" it, like they borrowed everything else from an underworld that celebrates game. They probably heard it once removed via hip hop. The fact that most people think they came up with "Who Lies More, men or women" means that most of these sorry idiots never watched Chris Rock's 1996 Comedy Special Bring the Pain.

Now lemme get off that soap box, and get on a different one.

If men had to meet some arbitrary "threshold of physical attractiveness" the human race would grind to a fucking halt. (well everywhere that doesn't have arranged marriages)

More importantly, if you can't bang a chick because you don't meet her "threshold of attractiveness"

Guess what partner? YOU DON'T HAVE GAME.

Game doesn't mean you say some magic words and Gisele Bundchen magically appears and falls to her knees.

For you fuckers who believe in 9's and 10's, Game means that you can punch way above your fighting weight, your sexual marketplace value.

And seriously, how is he gonna diss Mystery and Style for weird complicated canned routines and then come up with a phrase, "threshold of attractiveness"

Just cause you have muscles, doesn't mean you're not a nerd.

People who fall for his line of bullshit, really don't pay attention to the world around them, and really don't pay attention to the women they fuck, or the women in their lives.

Seriously, people don't think that their little blonde chick has never fucked a guy that didn't have 6 figure income and 6 pack abs?

They don't see their girlfriends, sisters, aunts, cousins, moms falling for guys that aren't Brad Clooney, or George Pitt?

Next new bitch you fuck, get her to tell you about all the skanky shit she's done, and her boyfriends, and her jump offs. Ever fucked a fat guy? White guy? Black guy? Jew? dude with bad breath? A short guy?

Run through your little list of "I bet she would never fuck a _____" and find out the truth.

YOU WILL BE AMAZED. Or disheartened. But the truth is, these bitches got raging hormones. It will really fuck with you to realize that it's not just this one bitch in your bed, it's every woman you know.

And unless you're a silverback gorilla with the ability to use the internet, MISS ME WITH THAT ALPHA THIS, BETA THAT, OMEGA THIS, SIGMA BULLSHIT. Men that are good with women, aren't necessarily good with men. And men that can lead other men, usually don't have a clue when it comes to women.

So lemme start you non-believers on a self-test on whether you have game.

Can you talk to a bitch?
Can you get her to stop being a bitch?
Can you make her laugh?
Can you make her get silly?
Can you call a bitch out?
Can you correct her?
Can you teach her?
Can you guide her?
Can you make her mad, and then make her smile?

If so, you might have game.
If not, you might not have game yet.

But if you think that you've got to meet some imaginary threshold of attractiveness...there's no hope for you. You clearly don't get it. Might as well stick to your niche and maximize that shit.

If you want to look like the Incredible Hulk and pull muscle sluts, cool.

If you want to look like a strung out on heroin drummer from a neo-glam dance rock band and pull hipster chicks that aspire to to be Suicide girls, do that.

You'd still be better learning game, and not relying on social familiarity, alcohol and tight logistics.

Game, for the most part, all you're doing is talking to her. You're seeing the true person that she is. You're looking past the make up, the high heels, the reverse slit dress, the liquor, and all of that camouflage.

Now a I know a number of you want to go back and forth with me, talking about various impossible situations, looking for some kind of logical trap or verbal conundrum, on some, "AHA, I'VE GOT YOU CORNERED WITH WORDS"

I'm not getting involved in any of that.
This thread angers me so much, that I'm not going to open this thread again.

You can either believe some dude on the internet, me or GLL, or you can look around your world and take notice of the massive variety in a guys that pull, and who girls will fuck.

If you take your blinders off, you'll see the real possibilities.

That's the true red pill of game.

It's not that feminists control the world, it's that these guys are fucking these hot chicks based on what they say. Not what they have, not what they look like, but what they say.

WIA

Brilliant post. Repped.

[bacan]

Great post WIA and I agree.
(Kieran you didn't have to quote the entire post for a three word reply)

[soup]

WIA

[anonymous123]

Wow! WIA - that might be the best post of read on this forum. Thank you sir.

[All or Nothing]

People are missing the underlying point that GLL is making.

First off, I do believe that physical attraction is not only way a girl will be sexually interested in a man. Status, lifestyle, social connections, and money also play a significant part in whether or not a woman will be sexually interested in a man.

GLL has built a significant part of his life around becoming more physically attractive, so it has become the barometer through which he compares his own status with other men. Through solipsism, he has applied this to women.

Still, the two main points he makes still stands.

Men cannot generate sexual attraction out of thin air just by spitting out some creative lines or by leaning back.

Men also cannot take a girl who is out of the market (strongly committed to her boyfriend) and somehow force her into the market through persistence and aggression.

To use the used car salesman analogy. A good used car salesman is a man who can effectively and efficiently close potential buyers who come to his lot.

A used car salesman does not go to the mall and try to convince totally random people who have no interest or need in buying a used car to buy one. That would be complete lunacy and a monumental waste of time.

Instead, he sets up his lot in a good location and closes people who are already looking to buy.

This is where Game as proposed by the PUA community has its limits.

You can DHV, neg, and do false takeaways all you want but that is not going to take a girl who has absolutely zero sexual interest in you and make her sexually interested in you. You can also plow through all you want, but that is not going to take a girl who is getting fucked right by her boyfriend on the reg and just drop him for you.

I have never ever ever heard of either of those things happening. I have never read of it happening. I have never seen it happen.

If it has, the guys who succeeded in the end probably could have fucked more and better women who were already available and interested in him in the time it took for him to take that one "no" to a "yes".

In the end, men should be more focused on these three things:

1. Becoming more attractive (improving health, lifestyle and career).
2. Becoming more efficient at finding potential buyers (screening).
3. Closing (p in v).

I do not know where Game fits into those three things and it does not really matter to me.

All I know is that I am more interested in finding girls who are already interested in having sex with me and making it happen rather than convincing girls who have no sexual interest in me to do so.

[soup]

I will say that I don't believe any girl I've hooked up with wasnt attracted to me from the get go and the game part is guiding that attraction to a bang.

I don't think I've convinced a girl who previously held no attraction for me to be attracted to me.

That said, I go through life thinking that all girls are attracted to me and that the real game is the one they play by lying to themselves and the world by trying pretend they aren't.

In this sense, the only game that is being run is the one happening between the girl and her hamster.

All of the stuff we do here is to help the hamster win.

Game is all about making rationalization hamster go to light speed.

[All or Nothing]

(03-22-2014 04:51 PM)soup Wrote:  

Game is all about making rationalization hamster go to light speed.

I was actually thinking about this recently.

Last week I was making out with a girl in my bedroom, but she refused to let me take her pants off.

I asked her why and she explained that if her pants came off and she ended up "losing all control", we would have sex. That was why she kept them on.

This helped me fully realize this one thing:

Being effective at closing is being effective at getting a girl so horny that she cannot logically control herself anymore.

[speakeasy]

(03-22-2014 04:31 PM)All or Nothing Wrote:  

People are missing the underlying point that GLL is making.

First off, I do believe that physical attraction is not only way a girl will be sexually interested in a man. Status, lifestyle, social connections, and money also play a significant part in whether or not a woman will be sexually interested in a man.

GLL has built a significant part of his life around becoming more physically attractive, so it has become the barometer through which he compares his own status with other men. Through solipsism, he has applied this to women.

Still, the two main points he makes still stands.

Men cannot generate sexual attraction out of thin air just by spitting out some creative lines or by leaning back.

Men also cannot take a girl who is out of the market (strongly committed to her boyfriend) and somehow force her into the market through persistence and aggression.

To use the used car salesman analogy. A good used car salesman is a man who can effectively and efficiently close potential buyers who come to his lot.

A used car salesman does not go to the mall and try to convince totally random people who have no interest or need in buying a used car to buy one. That would be complete lunacy and a monumental waste of time.

Instead, he sets up his lot in a good location and closes people who are already looking to buy.

This is where Game as proposed by the PUA community has its limits.

You can DHV, neg, and do false takeaways all you want but that is not going to take a girl who has absolutely zero sexual interest in you and make her sexually interested in you. You can also plow through all you want, but that is not going to take a girl who is getting fucked right by her boyfriend on the reg and just drop him for you.

I have never ever ever heard of either of those things happening. I have never read of it happening. I have never seen it happen.

If it has, the guys who succeeded in the end probably could have fucked more and better women who were already available and interested in him in the time it took for him to take that one "no" to a "yes".

In the end, men should be more focused on these three things:

1. Becoming more attractive (improving health, lifestyle and career).
2. Becoming more efficient at finding potential buyers (screening).
3. Closing (p in v).

I do not know where Game fits into those three things and it does not really matter to me.

All I know is that I am more interested in finding girls who are already interested in having sex with me and making it happen rather than convincing girls who have no sexual interest in me to do so.

I pretty much have come to your conclusion. I think where game comes in is in sealing the deal. Just because a girl has initial interest in you doesn't mean she's gonna fuck you. You still have to make some effort and make sure you don't make one of a thousand errors that will make that pussy go dry in a nanosecond or cause her to flake out. Getting IOIs is only the starting point. Before I had any concept of game, I utterly blew so many chances with girls that showed me the first IOI because I had no game to speak of and couldn't close. If I met those same girls today I'd smash with certainty.

I also think the car salesman analogy is on point. I think trying to create attraction out of thin air is mostly a losing proposition. Not saying it never happens, there's always the possibility that you grow on some girl as she gets to know you, but it's not as efficient as finding girls who are already looking to buy as is, and need to be seduced.

[speakeasy]

(03-19-2014 10:09 AM)Kieran Wrote:  

I agree appearance matters, but too many times to mention I've had girl's eyes light up that seemed completely unattracted, after I said some cocky-funny shit etc. Game works.

But did you end up fucking them? That's all that really matters. Eyes lighting up and some laughs only matter if they end up going home with you. We've all had this experience. Throw out some cocky humor and it gets good reactions. But we can't conflate good reactions with results.

[Merenguero]

(03-22-2014 12:16 PM)anonymous123 Wrote:  

Wow! WIA - that might be the best post of read on this forum. Thank you sir.

WIA's post said more in a few paragraphs than most books say in hundreds of pages.

[Moma]

Part of game is screening for potential targets and choosing where to invest one's energy. Part of game is honesty and knowing what works and what has a low ROI. I did mention the 80/20 rule in Nomad's thread about game requiring energy.

There are some areas or circles where no matter how you apply yourself, you're dead in the water on arrival.

Give you a personal example. I am terrible with lizards from South East Asia (India/Pakistan/etc). I've gone to joints with loads of them and literally tried to open at least 15 to 20. I couldn't even get eye contact. The culture doesn't make me a number one target.

No matter what stuff I try or how I angle it or hold my drink, my ROI is going to be extremely low in those circles. It's the same reason why cats aren't writing extensive datasheets on Bang India despite there being over a billion people there.

Does it mean game doesn't work? Of course not. Part of the hunt is knowing when to strike and when to wait. Does the hungry lion pounce on the healthy adult elephant in the middle of the herd? No, that is low ROI and probably get his ass stomped out.

Game is not this magic thing, you can reduce the amount of shots you take to get a basket but it is still ultimately a numbers game and one shouldn't spend too long intellectualising it. Get your shots up and let the percentages take care of themselves.

[L M McCoy]

(03-21-2014 11:16 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(03-21-2014 08:22 AM)bacan Wrote:  

WIA you're a good poster .. Just share your opinion

I'm not trying to get all meltdown and head out like the homey Hencredible...

But

Sure GLL's advice might be sales copy, preaching to the converted, but

HE'S WRONG.
HE'S DEAD WRONG.
HE'S WRONGER THAN LINDY WEST IN A PAIR OF LULULEMON'S

And for the various people talking about how game hasn't been defined, lemme define it for you


Game is what you do and say to make a girl do what you want her to do.

Period.

The term "game" doesn't come from a book written by Neil Strauss.

They "borrowed" it, like they borrowed everything else from an underworld that celebrates game. They probably heard it once removed via hip hop. The fact that most people think they came up with "Who Lies More, men or women" means that most of these sorry idiots never watched Chris Rock's 1996 Comedy Special Bring the Pain.

Now lemme get off that soap box, and get on a different one.

If men had to meet some arbitrary "threshold of physical attractiveness" the human race would grind to a fucking halt. (well everywhere that doesn't have arranged marriages)

More importantly, if you can't bang a chick because you don't meet her "threshold of attractiveness"

Guess what partner? YOU DON'T HAVE GAME.

Game doesn't mean you say some magic words and Gisele Bundchen magically appears and falls to her knees.

For you fuckers who believe in 9's and 10's, Game means that you can punch way above your fighting weight, your sexual marketplace value.

And seriously, how is he gonna diss Mystery and Style for weird complicated canned routines and then come up with a phrase, "threshold of attractiveness"

Just cause you have muscles, doesn't mean you're not a nerd.

People who fall for his line of bullshit, really don't pay attention to the world around them, and really don't pay attention to the women they fuck, or the women in their lives.

Seriously, people don't think that their little blonde chick has never fucked a guy that didn't have 6 figure income and 6 pack abs?

They don't see their girlfriends, sisters, aunts, cousins, moms falling for guys that aren't Brad Clooney, or George Pitt?

Next new bitch you fuck, get her to tell you about all the skanky shit she's done, and her boyfriends, and her jump offs. Ever fucked a fat guy? White guy? Black guy? Jew? dude with bad breath? A short guy?

Run through your little list of "I bet she would never fuck a _____" and find out the truth.

YOU WILL BE AMAZED. Or disheartened. But the truth is, these bitches got raging hormones. It will really fuck with you to realize that it's not just this one bitch in your bed, it's every woman you know.

And unless you're a silverback gorilla with the ability to use the internet, MISS ME WITH THAT ALPHA THIS, BETA THAT, OMEGA THIS, SIGMA BULLSHIT. Men that are good with women, aren't necessarily good with men. And men that can lead other men, usually don't have a clue when it comes to women.

So lemme start you non-believers on a self-test on whether you have game.

Can you talk to a bitch?
Can you get her to stop being a bitch?
Can you make her laugh?
Can you make her get silly?
Can you call a bitch out?
Can you correct her?
Can you teach her?
Can you guide her?
Can you make her mad, and then make her smile?

If so, you might have game.
If not, you might not have game yet.

But if you think that you've got to meet some imaginary threshold of attractiveness...there's no hope for you. You clearly don't get it. Might as well stick to your niche and maximize that shit.

If you want to look like the Incredible Hulk and pull muscle sluts, cool.

If you want to look like a strung out on heroin drummer from a neo-glam dance rock band and pull hipster chicks that aspire to to be Suicide girls, do that.

You'd still be better learning game, and not relying on social familiarity, alcohol and tight logistics.

Game, for the most part, all you're doing is talking to her. You're seeing the true person that she is. You're looking past the make up, the high heels, the reverse slit dress, the liquor, and all of that camouflage.

Now a I know a number of you want to go back and forth with me, talking about various impossible situations, looking for some kind of logical trap or verbal conundrum, on some, "AHA, I'VE GOT YOU CORNERED WITH WORDS"

I'm not getting involved in any of that.
This thread angers me so much, that I'm not going to open this thread again.

You can either believe some dude on the internet, me or GLL, or you can look around your world and take notice of the massive variety in a guys that pull, and who girls will fuck.

If you take your blinders off, you'll see the real possibilities.

That's the true red pill of game.

It's not that feminists control the world, it's that these guys are fucking these hot chicks based on what they say. Not what they have, not what they look like, but what they say.

WIA

[Kieran]

(03-22-2014 06:03 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(03-19-2014 10:09 AM)Kieran Wrote:  

I agree appearance matters, but too many times to mention I've had girl's eyes light up that seemed completely unattracted, after I said some cocky-funny shit etc. Game works.

But did you end up fucking them? That's all that really matters. Eyes lighting up and some laughs only matter if they end up going home with you. We've all had this experience. Throw out some cocky humor and it gets good reactions. But we can't conflate good reactions with results.

Not always, but on many occasions I've slept with girls that I might as well have been invisible to initially, or that acted like complete bitches when I first approached them. Had I just screened aggressively, and so on, as GLL advocates, then there's no way I would of got the bang. Game allowed them see me in a new light.

Now I'm not saying I can game around any girl, not even close, and I'm sure I wasn't physically repulsive to any of these girls. But they definitely were not attracted until I opened my mouth, and had some time to display dominance etc. My experience is that girls don't even need to like a man that much at all to sleep with them. Often I find that if I just hang in there, and engineer a situation where it would be possible and she won't be judged, then a lot of girls just think why not and will fuck.

[Libertas]

(03-21-2014 08:22 AM)bacan Wrote:  

I think GLL's advice is heavily influenced by his own experience

This. Pretty much. GLL has a lot of good stuff but the biggest weakness of that site is that the authors I think privilege their own experiences too much.

It's interesting to see all the "what is game?" debates come up again and I think that's largely what he was arguing against.

Personally after all I've gathered I think that success with women (there's a more concrete term) comes down to three basic "pillars"

1. Looks (height, build, style, etc.)
2. Lifestyle (status, money, etc.)
3. Behavior (frame control, masculine demeanor, etc. This is probably what most people think of when they hear the word "game.")

If you're fat guy you're probably going to need to have very high levels in the other two pillars to succeed, and it can go in all different combinations. There was a post on GLL where he himself said that status mattered more than looks.

Arguing about it probably doesn't solve anything. You should want to be as high as you can in each pillar. You probably won't get there by spending too much time on game sites and forums.

Though spending a bit of time has helped to keep me motivated and hold myself accountable.

[sox]

(03-23-2014 12:15 PM)Libertas Wrote:  

(03-21-2014 08:22 AM)bacan Wrote:  

I think GLL's advice is heavily influenced by his own experience

This. Pretty much. GLL has a lot of good stuff but the biggest weakness of that site is that the authors I think privilege their own experiences too much.

It's interesting to see all the "what is game?" debates come up again and I think that's largely what he was arguing against.

Personally after all I've gathered I think that success with women (there's a more concrete term) comes down to three basic "pillars"

1. Looks (height, build, style, etc.)
2. Lifestyle (status, money, etc.)
3. Behavior (frame control, masculine demeanor, etc. This is probably what most people think of when they hear the word "game.")

If you're fat guy you're probably going to need to have very high levels in the other two pillars to succeed, and it can go in all different combinations. There was a post on GLL where he himself said that status mattered more than looks.

Arguing about it probably doesn't solve anything. You should want to be as high as you can in each pillar. You probably won't get there by spending too much time on game sites and forums.

Though spending a bit of time has helped to keep me motivated and hold myself accountable.

If you're a fat guy, you're going to have a pain in the ass time building your behavior if you're coming at this from the self-assessment angle that most guys do. That's the hardest part. Assessing yourself and then developing an irrational level of self confidence to be able to match up to others who developed it more naturally.

I generally have a hard time with that kind of advice that comes from someone with any kind of natural advantage or privilege, unless they've taken time to study or seen others' perspectives. It's human nature to minimize one's advantages and play up things like ability and actions taken.

[good looking loser]

- Looks (sex appeal) = Physical Attraction
- 'Game' (we call it Killer Instinct) = Making it happen

I don't deny either of them, in fact - the entire GLL project is based on both.

PUA says that 'game' = Physical Attraction
It's doesn't, not significantly - only a small amount.

I get how this stuff works - a few of the posts misrepresent what we actually think. Obviously they both matter, a lot.