[Disco_Volante]

Surprised the CIA WikiLeaks didn't find any vaccine shit. Perhaps it's compartmentalized separate from their cyber hacking units.

Maybe the CIA doesn't care about WikiLeaks cause they know bugging a TV is minor league shit compared to biological weapons like vaccines.

"Oh shucks you caught us bugging phones and tvs. yea that's the ugly underbelly of what we really do. nothing else".

[Grodin]

I think there is some risks with Thimerosal but the good news is there are better preservatives, and Thimerosal is no longer used in most vaccines.

One thing that I think has merit is the idea to space the injections out more. I've never seen a solid rebuttal to that request. The more reasonable vaccine skeptics are usually ignored to focus on the more rabid idiots in the movement (of which there are many).

I have a teenage son with autism and I think vaccines have nothing to do with it. I can understand why parents look in sketchy places for answers, the medical community has no answers and it's tough parenting a non-verbal kid and being told there's fuck all you can do about it.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

From observing patients from a wild variety of backgrounds, I am becoming more and more convinced that many cases autism are triggered by a combination of 2 things:

- Early childhood exposure to screens
- Early childhood exposure to preservatives and chemical flavours in processed food

Explanations:

A child's early years are supposed to be spent learning how to socialise. If you put a screen in front of a child, especially a male child (because male brains are inherently focused and less social to begin with), they miss out on that critical training period, and once it's lost, it's lost. Basically, if kids don't put in their 1000 hours of social training as a child, they will never become 'expert' enough on socialising, for the rest of their life.

The child's brain is also pretty sensitive to changes in gut bacteria. Gut bacteria can release chemicals that eventually reach the brain, helping or hindering it. There are cases of autism improving either on antibiotics (killing bad bacteria) or on probiotics (helping good bacteria). (One scientific article, as an example of this new field of research: https://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral....016-0225-7 )

This is just speculation on my part and I'm open to rebuttals of my hypothesis. I do think my hypothesis explains the rise in autism better than the vaccine hypothesis.

[Phoenix]

(03-08-2017 02:30 PM)TheWhiteWolf Wrote:  

Why did autism dramatically rise since the 1980s when a new vaccine regiment was introduced?

Correlation doesn't imply causation. It's amazing how many people think it does.

As an aside, I even heard a guy say once that "actually if they are increasing monotonically together it actually does imply causation" . Use a fancy word like monotonic and suddenly 3rd-factor causation or causal direction disappears .

(03-08-2017 02:30 PM)TheWhiteWolf Wrote:  

Why are 95% of autistic people male? could it be that the mercury in the vaccines reacts differently with testosterone.

Similar to the reason 100% of people with dicks are men. A more powerful and analytical brain is a male secondary sexual characteristic, and more complicated things have more things that can go wrong during construction. Men are also infinitely more likely to become dictators and kill themselves street-racing; it's simply connected to masculinity itself.

(03-08-2017 02:30 PM)TheWhiteWolf Wrote:  

Why why haven't they discovered what gene causes autism if it is genetic?

Because meet some researcher types. I don't think I've ever met a post-graduate or academic who behaved with a sense of urgency. They all just consider research to be a leisurely, lazy pursuit. I'll do a little dabble here, write a waffling paper there. These types are the opposite of business types. A business man wants to learn exactly what he needs to get a job done, as fast as he can, and no more. An academic wants to leisurely learn about something and pontificate about it.

The biggest cringe thing I ever heard was when I asked a bunch of high-university-score guys "what would you do with a million dollars?". Most said the usual stuff like "buy a nice house/car", "go traveling" etc. But one of them said "I'd become a professional student". That's somebody who studies things for the sake of it, as leisure. Cringe as fuck.

That's why there's been no real breakthroughs in medicine since forever. Or technology generally for that matter. Our planes are flying slower than they used to; people still mostly drive around in metal boxes fueled by burning dead tree & dinosaur; people still get pimples and colds; we still cook using frying pans and gas flames; we still use fucking buttons and shoelaces to bind our clothes .

The reason is the number of researchers who are fucking dabblers with no real motivation or sense of drive. Why that is is a separate question (it's probably because people don't invest in long-term minded research like they once did, thereby not drawing in good industrious men into the profession).

[CynicalContrarian]

There's one way to be sure.
Get a group of adults who are vaccine advocates.
Plug 'em with 20 vaccines in 20 months & then see how they fare after the fact.

After-all, there's no danger as they say...

[spokepoker]

I'd do it.

[Easy_C]

Somewhat. What I have been told by family members who are doctors (from top tier med schools.in the 80s) is that giving young infants vaccines is a complete waste of time because they do not produce antibodies in response....or at all in the case of extremely young infants. It's added tox for zero benefit.

[Phoenix]

(03-09-2017 01:34 AM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

There's one way to be sure.
Get a group of adults who are vaccine advocates.
Plug 'em with 20 vaccines in 20 months & then see how they fare after the fact.

After-all, there's no danger as they say...

Don't see why people are making this a black-white ideological thing.

Vaccines can injure you; nobody seriously debates this fact. That's why this exists:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_C...Injury_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_V...on_Program

Furthermore, nobody debates that humans have immune systems that remember pathogens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunization

So vaccines can reduce the chance of either you, your kid, or other kids or adults generally, catching something nasty. By how much so is of course variable.

Whether or not you or your kid should take a vaccine should be adjudged in the same way as everything else: calmly, rationally, balanced, and mindful of any and all facts at hand.

Simple example 1: flu vaccine - you are a young adult. Just ignore it, you are not better off taking it.

Simple example 2: rabies vaccine - you're going into a jungle full of rabies-infested monkeys. You should definitely take it.

Simple example 3: smallpox vaccine. Does smallpox still exist? Is there any reasonable chance you could get it? If not, don't take the vaccine.

I'd happily take those 20 vaccines if I needed them (like I was going into some kind of fucked-up infested African hellhole?), if you were offering them for free.

[sterling_archer]

Two years ago aggressive dog without owner bit me any my sister while we were walking. We went to the doctor and he explained that even though its possible for this dog to be rabid (its likely not), we should still vaccinate ourselves just for case.

We did and thought later nothing of it. Dog was not rabid but I don't have anything against vaccinating themselves for dangerous and rare diseases.
I live in the country side and from time to time, a rabid fox walks into our yard (or our neighbors). If for example it were to bit me, I wouldn't have to worry about it.

On the other hand there is correlation between taking flu vaccine and actually getting flu. There are too many people I know that started to get flu after they started to take flu vaccine each year.

[CynicalContrarian]

(03-09-2017 03:38 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

Two years ago aggressive dog without owner bit me any my sister while we were walking. We went to the doctor and he explained that even though its possible for this dog to be rabid (its likely not), we should still vaccinate ourselves just for case.
We did and thought later nothing of it. Dog was not rabid but I don't have anything against vaccinating themselves for dangerous and rare diseases.
I live in the country side and from time to time, a rabid fox walks into our yard (or our neighbors). If for example it were to bit me, I wouldn't have to worry about it.
On the other hand there is correlation between taking flu vaccine and actually getting flu. There are too many people I know that started to get flu after they started to take flu vaccine each year.

Only had 1 flu vaccine for work / travel purposes ~2010. Otherwise I never get flu vaccines.
Haven't had the flu since 1995.

[TheWhiteWolf]

I'm surprised Zelcorpion hasn't commented on this yet

[The Beast1]

I'll take my chances with vaccines for my children and myself. Fully inoculated and up to date on all of my shots.

Vaccines are the gift of modern medical science and to think otherwise is foolish.

This is what whooping cough sounds like:

Pertusis is entirely preventable and yet we have people who think otherwise and then fail to understand how herd immunity works.

Antivacers should be quarantined from modern society in a special place until such day that they decide to vaccinate themselves.

This is another mark of societal decline.

[hv123]

I strongly recommend this book to anyone who wants to get some insight in to issues to do with medical scares and the like. It also goes in to some depth about dodgy statistics and other things such as vitamins, alternative medicine etc.
Required reading:

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but BBC is an institution that claims there are 40 genders, illegal immigration is good for the economy and there is no such thing as radical islamic terrorism. Their endorsement strongly implies this book is crap.

[CynicalContrarian]

To take a different perspective.
Perhaps the paranoia in regards to the spread of diseases in infants would not be so prevalent if parents didn't shove their kids on mass in day care centers, kindergartens & the like, at such young ages.

I find it a rather odd decision of some parents who choose to have kids, only to spend most of their time working longer hours to pay for the excessive child care costs.
Cut out the one, you won't need the other...

Yet in this "modern" world, that would appear to be a price parents have to pay.
Almost a 'chicken & egg' type principle.
Don't pool young kids on mass in close confines & you may not need so many vaccines.

[The Beast1]

(03-09-2017 06:12 AM)hv123 Wrote:  

I strongly recommend this book to anyone who wants to get some insight in to issues to do with medical scares and the like. It also goes in to some depth about dodgy statistics and other things such as vitamins, alternative medicine etc.
Required reading:

Instead of sitting there telling me to read something, why don't you take 5 minutes and sum it up for me.

My "To Read" list is a mile long.

The only unnecessary vaccine is the flu shot. There's no point in getting that.

[TheWhiteWolf]

(03-09-2017 05:45 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

I'll take my chances with vaccines for my children and myself. Fully inoculated and up to date on all of my shots.

Vaccines are the gift of modern medical science and to think otherwise is foolish.

This is what whooping cough sounds like:

Pertusis is entirely preventable and yet we have people who think otherwise and then fail to understand how herd immunity works.

Antivacers should be quarantined from modern society in a special place until such day that they decide to vaccinate themselves.

This is another mark of societal decline.

Then I'd like to hear your explanation why autism is so prevalent nowadays when it wasn't in the past

[Phoenix]

^ He doesn't have to do so. Correlation doesn't imply causation.

Why is feminism so prevalent now versus in the past? Must be the vaccines.

Use your brain dude.

[Kona]

^^^^ Nobody likes to talk about the one pretty promising looking cause of autism: motherhood obesity.

How dare you tell an autism mom her fatness caused little Philbert's (they all got weird names) autism.

And I can't stand the "well they didn't have autism before, so its gotta be mercury " argument.

We didn't have a lot of thing before. Maybe its iPhone or Below Deck on Bravotv or bike helmets or a million other things.

I dealt with an autism kid and my nice this week. I hate it.

Aloha!

[Geomann180]

(03-09-2017 10:17 PM)Kona Wrote:  

^^^^ Nobody likes to talk about the one pretty promising looking cause of autism: motherhood obesity.

How dare you tell an autism mom her fatness caused little Philbert's (they all got weird names) autism.

And I can't stand the "well they didn't have autism before, so its gotta be mercury " argument.

We didn't have a lot of thing before. Maybe its iPhone or Below Deck on Bravotv or bike helmets or a million other things.

I dealt with an autism kid and my nice this week. I hate it.

Aloha!

I never considered obesity, but I always thought that the rising age of pregnant mothers had something to do with it.

20 year old and pregnant? probably no autism

vs

45 year old and pregnant? autism express

G

[spokepoker]

Is autism tracked in asian countries?

[The Beast1]

(03-09-2017 07:15 AM)TheWhiteWolf Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 05:45 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

I'll take my chances with vaccines for my children and myself. Fully inoculated and up to date on all of my shots.

Vaccines are the gift of modern medical science and to think otherwise is foolish.

This is what whooping cough sounds like:

Pertusis is entirely preventable and yet we have people who think otherwise and then fail to understand how herd immunity works.

Antivacers should be quarantined from modern society in a special place until such day that they decide to vaccinate themselves.

This is another mark of societal decline.

Then I'd like to hear your explanation why autism is so prevalent nowadays when it wasn't in the past

Your "muh vaccines" should be "muh maternal age" .

As Phoenix said, feminism is most likely is the cause of autism as feminism encourages a later maternal age.

[TheWhiteWolf]

(03-10-2017 04:04 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 07:15 AM)TheWhiteWolf Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 05:45 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

I'll take my chances with vaccines for my children and myself. Fully inoculated and up to date on all of my shots.

Vaccines are the gift of modern medical science and to think otherwise is foolish.

This is what whooping cough sounds like:

Pertusis is entirely preventable and yet we have people who think otherwise and then fail to understand how herd immunity works.

Antivacers should be quarantined from modern society in a special place until such day that they decide to vaccinate themselves.

This is another mark of societal decline.

Then I'd like to hear your explanation why autism is so prevalent nowadays when it wasn't in the past

Your "muh vaccines" should be "muh maternal age" .

As Phoenix said, feminism is most likely is the cause of autism as feminism encourages a later maternal age.

It still doesn't explain why there are no autistic women if it was genetically caused you think there would be an equal number of men and women like we see with down syndrome

[Benoit]

(03-10-2017 07:21 AM)TheWhiteWolf Wrote:  

It still doesn't explain why there are no autistic women if it was genetically caused you think there would be an equal number of men and women like we see with down syndrome

Because men and women are not the same, especially when it comes to brain development.

[ivansirko]

(03-09-2017 05:45 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

I'll take my chances with vaccines for my children and myself. Fully inoculated and up to date on all of my shots.

Vaccines are the gift of modern medical science and to think otherwise is foolish.

This is what whooping cough sounds like:

Pertusis is entirely preventable and yet we have people who think otherwise and then fail to understand how herd immunity works.

Presuming the autism vaccine thing is true (which its not).......tiny risk of autism vs seeing your child go through this.....hmmmm......

The crazy part of the original MMR paper is it took over 10 years to fully retract the fraudulent findings. Anyone says we have peer review to protect us from the scientific flavor of the week (Global Warming?).....it is not a fast process, meanwhile we will have the emotional choosing the risk of Whopping Cough.