For the RVFers in Kiev - be safe!
- Clint Barton
Ukraine conflict thread (retired)
I was watching a live feed from Kiev; sounds like some of the protesters were saying the Rosary.
http://24tv.ua/home/showOnline.do
http://24tv.ua/home/showOnline.do
“….and we will win, and you will win, and we will keep on winning, and eventually you will say… we can’t take all of this winning, …please Mr. Trump …and I will say, NO, we will win, and we will keep on winning”.
- President Donald J. Trump
"...it's the quiet cool...it's for someone who's been through the struggle and come out on the other side smelling like money and pussy."
"put her in the taxi, put her number in the trash can"
Looks like the revolution has begun.
BBC Story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26249330
I think this is a sign that the movement is actually over. The oligarchs and their puppet president have reached an agreement and now force can be used to return life back to normal. Understand that nothing happens without the consent of the oligarchs, so if force is finally being used, than the protest no longer serves their interests. The only exception is if massive crowds spontaneously rise up to stop the demolishing of the encampment.
I think this is a sign that the movement is actually over. The oligarchs and their puppet president have reached an agreement and now force can be used to return life back to normal. Understand that nothing happens without the consent of the oligarchs, so if force is finally being used, than the protest no longer serves their interests. The only exception is if massive crowds spontaneously rise up to stop the demolishing of the encampment.
Roosh
http://www.rooshv.com
Thank god.... the protesters were wrong here. Deciding a coup e tat against their democratically elected president and ignoring the wishes of the other half of the country.This defeat of the rebellion means feminism and political correctness won't invade!
Quote: (02-18-2014 06:50 PM)Roosh Wrote:
BBC Story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26249330
I think this is a sign that the movement is actually over. The oligarchs and their puppet president have reached an agreement and now force can be used to return life back to normal. Understand that nothing happens without the consent of the oligarchs, so if force is finally being used, than the protest no longer serves their interests. The only exception is if massive crowds spontaneously rise up to stop the demolishing of the encampment.
Exactly. At the end though it all depends on what the strongest institution in most countries is the Army will do. I suspect they might try a Egypt style fake democracy to really control the country incohoots with Oligarchs, to prevent a civil war.
I agree... the Police have permission to fire live ammo, and have taken control of the clock tower building where the protestors were organising everything from. The babushkas will all go home now that the kitchen has been destroyed and the free food has finished.
Yeah the police alone may not be able to put it down:
If the army is needed, but it's split just like the country, then this may turn into something that neither the government or oligarchs can control.
If the army is needed, but it's split just like the country, then this may turn into something that neither the government or oligarchs can control.
Roosh
http://www.rooshv.com
Quote: (02-18-2014 07:13 PM)Roosh Wrote:
If the army is needed, but it's split just like the country, then this may turn into something that neither the government or oligarchs can control.
They're only needed in a small part of Kiev, so the split isn't much of an issue, IMO. They only need to patrol the central area and set up checkpoints on the roads leading from the West.
Also, the hard-liners blocked fire trucks a few hours ago and let a whole bunch of people burn inside the clock tower building, so I can't imagine there being too much support for them going forward.
LOL at the cute Ukrainian chick at 2:57 throwing rocks she can barely lift at riot police.
Did anyone see the video of the female protester asking for help?
I swear it sounded like Princess Leia asking obiwan for help.
So Yanuk is Darth Vader, Putin is the Emperor?
So does that make Roosh han solo? (ONLY WANTS THE PUSSY). Well I am not being chewie..
I swear it sounded like Princess Leia asking obiwan for help.
So Yanuk is Darth Vader, Putin is the Emperor?
So does that make Roosh han solo? (ONLY WANTS THE PUSSY). Well I am not being chewie..
Anyone notice the Thailand protest and Ukraine protest started at the same time? Also both are ending at the same time with police moving in.
My opinion.
This will not end well for Yanukovich. These are forces (Ukrainian nationalism) well beyond his ability to control. This is his last attempt to keep a grip on power. His best outcomes,if he is successful tonight are a civil war or a police state. I believe he would lose the first and the second is unsustainable. Basically, Ukrainians will not roll over to despotic illegitimate power like Russians do. (We could argue at length about democratically elected Yanukovich's legitimacy, but we have to look at his record since being elected and the hijacking of democratic institutions and the constitution.)
Regarding the women. Nothing but opportunities for western forum members if Yanukovich loses power. Spoils goes to the victors. Any feminism, etc will come a generation or so from significant political change, which is itself probably a generation off.
Suggest Forum members take RT, as the Russian mouthpiece it is. They want Yanukovich to crackdown as Putin did and consolidate power, and eventually rejoin the empire. This is Putin's dream.
I am in the odd position of being a bit of a Putin apologist/fan, except when it comes to Ukraine. I wonder if it may be his Achilles heel.
This will not end well for Yanukovich. These are forces (Ukrainian nationalism) well beyond his ability to control. This is his last attempt to keep a grip on power. His best outcomes,if he is successful tonight are a civil war or a police state. I believe he would lose the first and the second is unsustainable. Basically, Ukrainians will not roll over to despotic illegitimate power like Russians do. (We could argue at length about democratically elected Yanukovich's legitimacy, but we have to look at his record since being elected and the hijacking of democratic institutions and the constitution.)
Regarding the women. Nothing but opportunities for western forum members if Yanukovich loses power. Spoils goes to the victors. Any feminism, etc will come a generation or so from significant political change, which is itself probably a generation off.
Suggest Forum members take RT, as the Russian mouthpiece it is. They want Yanukovich to crackdown as Putin did and consolidate power, and eventually rejoin the empire. This is Putin's dream.
I am in the odd position of being a bit of a Putin apologist/fan, except when it comes to Ukraine. I wonder if it may be his Achilles heel.
"Equality may perhaps be a right, but no power on earth can ever turn it into a fact."
"Want him to be more of a man? Try being more of a woman!"
"It is easier to be a lover than a husband, for the same reason that it is more difficult to be witty every day, than to say bright things from time to time."
Balzac, Physiology of Marriage
Interesting article on the US involvement in Ukraine:
http://www.voltairenet.org/article182188.html
I wonder what kind of response Putin has in store after the Olympics.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article182188.html
I wonder what kind of response Putin has in store after the Olympics.
Quote: (02-18-2014 07:13 PM)Roosh Wrote:
Yeah the police alone may not be able to put it down:
If the army is needed, but it's split just like the country, then this may turn into something that neither the government or oligarchs can control.
Wild video.
Yes. But, my thinking is that these two hypotheticals are already true.
"Equality may perhaps be a right, but no power on earth can ever turn it into a fact."
"Want him to be more of a man? Try being more of a woman!"
"It is easier to be a lover than a husband, for the same reason that it is more difficult to be witty every day, than to say bright things from time to time."
Balzac, Physiology of Marriage
Quote: (02-18-2014 08:44 PM)unbowed Wrote:
Interesting article on the US involvement in Ukraine:
http://www.voltairenet.org/article182188.html
I wonder what kind of response Putin has in store after the Olympics.
My opinion: this planned crackdown was at Putin's instigation, and the 2 billion loan went through yesterday. He didn't wait to make a move. Olympics provide great cover.
"Equality may perhaps be a right, but no power on earth can ever turn it into a fact."
"Want him to be more of a man? Try being more of a woman!"
"It is easier to be a lover than a husband, for the same reason that it is more difficult to be witty every day, than to say bright things from time to time."
Balzac, Physiology of Marriage
Quote: (02-18-2014 05:37 PM)presidentcarter Wrote:
Streaming from various POVs:
http://rt.com/on-air/ukraine-central-kiev-protest/
These two are actually coming from Ukraine TV networks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_LFrMcoEm4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh3_1L9XO60
"Equality may perhaps be a right, but no power on earth can ever turn it into a fact."
"Want him to be more of a man? Try being more of a woman!"
"It is easier to be a lover than a husband, for the same reason that it is more difficult to be witty every day, than to say bright things from time to time."
Balzac, Physiology of Marriage
![[Image: tumblr_m5wil1Bx9u1qbaj4uo1_500.jpg]](https://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5wil1Bx9u1qbaj4uo1_500.jpg)
For any of the guys in Kiev, before you light a Molotov cocktail, it's important to make sure you have a tight seal between the rag and the neck of the bottle.
Yanukovich has continually shot himself in the foot. At every lull in the protests his security forces provide some sort of provocation for events to once again spiral into riots.
The only smart thing that he has done so far is to close the roads to Kiev, which he should have been doing every weekend starting back in December. Controlling traffic is something that he could have gotten away with in the eyes of the West and it would have severely limited the size of these protests.
Now that the ultras are fighting alongside the nationalists I see no chance of de-escalation. I've met a few ultras and these are kids who have nothing to live for except getting drunk and fighting at football games. I'm sure this is already well known to most EE veterans but ultras (extreme football fans) devote their attention into organizing mass brawls instead of watching football. In other words, these guys are pretty hard.
The nationalists will likely continue to take advantage of the relative complacency of local security forces in Western Ukraine to amass arms which will causes further escalation, especially now that both sides are openly shooting each other.
The only silver lining for Yanukovich is that it will make it easier for him to call a state of emergency, with deaths in the police nearing double digits. However, this many deaths will only strengthen the West's resolve to remove him from power and he will have lost legitimacy with less interested observers. Putin will have to come to a decision soon of making a strong show of support for Yanukovich's actions or washing his hands clean. While Russia certainly doesn't want Ukraine to drift west, I doubt that the oligarchs or Putin will continue support him in office for much longer even if this mess clears up, given how he is universally disliked and mistrusted.
The only smart thing that he has done so far is to close the roads to Kiev, which he should have been doing every weekend starting back in December. Controlling traffic is something that he could have gotten away with in the eyes of the West and it would have severely limited the size of these protests.
Now that the ultras are fighting alongside the nationalists I see no chance of de-escalation. I've met a few ultras and these are kids who have nothing to live for except getting drunk and fighting at football games. I'm sure this is already well known to most EE veterans but ultras (extreme football fans) devote their attention into organizing mass brawls instead of watching football. In other words, these guys are pretty hard.
The nationalists will likely continue to take advantage of the relative complacency of local security forces in Western Ukraine to amass arms which will causes further escalation, especially now that both sides are openly shooting each other.
The only silver lining for Yanukovich is that it will make it easier for him to call a state of emergency, with deaths in the police nearing double digits. However, this many deaths will only strengthen the West's resolve to remove him from power and he will have lost legitimacy with less interested observers. Putin will have to come to a decision soon of making a strong show of support for Yanukovich's actions or washing his hands clean. While Russia certainly doesn't want Ukraine to drift west, I doubt that the oligarchs or Putin will continue support him in office for much longer even if this mess clears up, given how he is universally disliked and mistrusted.
Quote: (02-18-2014 10:48 PM)Blunt Wrote:
Yanukovich has continually shot himself in the foot. At every lull in the protests his security forces provide some sort of provocation for events to once again spiral into riots.
The only smart thing that he has done so far is to close the roads to Kiev, which he should have been doing every weekend starting back in December. Controlling traffic is something that he could have gotten away with in the eyes of the West and it would have severely limited the size of these protests.
Now that the ultras are fighting alongside the nationalists I see no chance of de-escalation. I've met a few ultras and these are kids who have nothing to live for except getting drunk and fighting at football games. I'm sure this is already well known to most EE veterans but ultras (extreme football fans) devote their attention into organizing mass brawls instead of watching football. In other words, these guys are pretty hard.
The nationalists will likely continue to take advantage of the relative complacency of local security forces in Western Ukraine to amass arms which will causes further escalation, especially now that both sides are openly shooting each other.
The only silver lining for Yanukovich is that it will make it easier for him to call a state of emergency, with deaths in the police nearing double digits. However, this many deaths will only strengthen the West's resolve to remove him from power and he will have lost legitimacy with less interested observers. Putin will have to come to a decision soon of making a strong show of support for Yanukovich's actions or washing his hands clean. While Russia certainly doesn't want Ukraine to drift west, I doubt that the oligarchs or Putin will continue support him in office for much longer even if this mess clears up, given how he is universally disliked and mistrusted.
Actually the protesters are to blame today..chances are they want to start shit knowing US will sanction . Yanuk might need to threaten weapons shipped to Iran and Syria if sanctions imposed .Russia of course can sanction the west with energy cutoff.
if opposition gets into office with a western agenda.. Ukraine might divide.Regional governors already are figuring on doing so. They will call i nRussia as peace keepers.
Just curious, is there any chance or sense in Western Ukraine joining Poland as a type of commonwealth?
In the past, Ukraine was a part of the large country known as the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth.
In the past, Ukraine was a part of the large country known as the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth.
Quote: (02-18-2014 11:37 PM)NY Digital Wrote:
Just curious, is there any chance or sense in Western Ukraine joining Poland as a type of commonwealth?
In the past, Ukraine was a part of the large country known as the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth.
I'd say practically no chance. Western Ukraine's history with Poland isn't a happy one...there was bitter fighting between Ukrainians and Poles at the end of WWI and I doubt it's been forgotten. Anyway, I think that if western Ukraine was going to break from the east, they'd absolutely want full independence and nothing less...coming into union with Poland would be seen by nationalists as a big step backwards from the status quo.
Quote: (02-19-2014 12:03 AM)Saga Wrote:
Quote: (02-18-2014 11:37 PM)NY Digital Wrote:
Just curious, is there any chance or sense in Western Ukraine joining Poland as a type of commonwealth?
In the past, Ukraine was a part of the large country known as the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth.
I'd say practically no chance. Western Ukraine's history with Poland isn't a happy one...there was bitter fighting between Ukrainians and Poles at the end of WWI and I doubt it's been forgotten. Anyway, I think that if western Ukraine was going to break from the east, they'd absolutely want full independence and nothing less...coming into union with Poland would be seen by nationalists as a big step backwards from the status quo.
There was also bitter fighting between the two during WW2 between both groups' resistances(Armia Krajowa vs the UPA) with all sorts of ethnic cleansing and reprisals going on.
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