[Hencredible Casanova]

(02-06-2014 06:30 PM)NY Digital Wrote:  

So youre saying you can make your points but we can't?

Not at all. Please point out where you think I said that so I can correct you.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(02-06-2014 06:30 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

These groups add value.

Groups that choose to assimilate their host countries values and cultural practices are not a problem. It's when they form enclaves and refuse to assimilate, and then agitate to get their hosts to accommodate their home culture, and even allow them exception to rules and laws, that's when we get problems.

What are some examples of the latter group you describe?

[NY Digital]

Quote:

How many guys on this thread has put on a uniform? Not many. Ali is one. He's not saying anything though. Yeah, don't talk about loyalty then when all you want is a damn job simply for existing on American soil.

[K Galt]

Have you not heard of the problems with Muslim enclaves in France and Dearborn, MI? Like I said as well, we here in Hawaii are seeing it with the recent influx of Micronesians. Let's also not forget the "la raza" contingent of Mexicans in the South West.

[Saga]

(02-06-2014 06:29 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Well, then do what the French do and hold some CEOs hostage. Arguing ad nauseum on the Roosh forum during "work hours" is only proving why multigenerational Americans have a terribly bad work ethic. The French figured out a long time ago to physically go after the man who signs the check on the front when they want a solution.

I'm stating my opinions about an issue, just like you are. I don't think it reflects on either of our work ethics, nor that of multigenerational Americans. It's simply important that we get the various arguments right.

[K Galt]

(02-06-2014 05:40 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I want to let this thread go, just to see how long it takes for you guys to tire yourselves out.

NO one gets tired of the topic of xenophobia!

Didn't you get the memo, Roosh? This is Post-Racial America, bay-bee!

[Hencredible Casanova]

(02-06-2014 06:35 PM)NY Digital Wrote:  

Quote:

How many guys on this thread has put on a uniform? Not many. Ali is one. He's not saying anything though. Yeah, don't talk about loyalty then when all you want is a damn job simply for existing on American soil.

Thanks. The bold section is the part I want to emphasize. I think it's fair to ask when I see posts questioning one's loyalty as an American whether they've put on a uniform, or done anything else selfless in service of the country.

JFK said it best.

[K Galt]

Oh, and Hen, I have the day off of work today....but you're right! Why am I wasting it arguing about shit I can't change at the RVF?

Aloha, I'm going to the beach!

[NY Digital]

Hen, nice dodge.

But that quote, from what I understand and I think others can agree with me; pretty much told us we have no right to comment on immigration, because we were born here and we did not serve in the armed forces.

[Walderschmidt]

(02-06-2014 06:41 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Thanks. The bold section is the part I want to emphasize. I think it's fair to ask when I see posts questioning one's loyalty as an American whether they've put on a uniform, or done anything else selfless in service of the country.

JFK said it best.

Have you ever worn a uniform?

Wald

[Hencredible Casanova]

(02-06-2014 06:38 PM)K Galt Wrote:  

Have you not heard of the problems with Muslim enclaves in France and Dearborn, MI? Like I said as well, we here in Hawaii are seeing it with the recent influx of Micronesians. Let's also not forget the "la raza" contingent of Mexicans in the South West.

France has long had a problem with North African Muslims, particularly Algerians. Algeria fought a very bloody colonial independence struggle against France where many Frenchmen died. That legacy is the source of that problem. France has made some headway. Their best soccer player of all time (arguably) was Zinedine Zidane - Algerian parents, but he grew up in Marseille. Sports and entertainment in most cultures tends to be the thing that help move society forward. The military is another institution. In the US, the military desegrated about a decade before civilian society did. They say that's what led to that happening; the logic being if men can die together on the battlefield, why can't they also live together?

As for Dearborn, from what I've always understood, the Arab community there is pretty well-assimilated and very successful. Some of the most prominent Arab-Americans either live there or grew up there. I remember seeing a Vice clip about how that suburb even thrived during the recession unlike neighboring Detroit.

There was even a show on TLC called All-American Muslim that was centered around families in Dearborn. They were as American as it gets (accents and everything) minus the hijabs.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAllAmericanMuslim


As for Hawaians, I've met a few native ones who feel the same way about Americans that some apparently do about Micronesians. They very much resent American subjugation of their history.

There's a minority of Mexicans who feel the same way a minority of whites feel about their history. Keep in mind the SW states used to belong to Mexico until the Mexican-American War.

[NY Digital]

Wald:

Quote:

Nope. I wanted to after college but OCS had budget issues and weren't taking any more candidates. Ended up getting a job instead and never looked back.

I'm just saying, to bring up loyalty, one has to ask what have they done for their country, not what their country can do for them.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(02-06-2014 06:50 PM)NY Digital Wrote:  

Hen, nice dodge.

But that quote, from what I understand and I think others can agree with me; pretty much told us we have no right to comment on immigration, because we were born here and we did not serve in the armed forces.

If that's what you inferred, then that's unfortunate. I don't know who "us" even is. I haven't even paid attention to your comments to know what your stance is. I had seen a post questioning one's loyalty to the country however, so the military question is fair IMO. What exactly am I dodging? You asked me if I served and I gave you a straightaway answer.

[soup]

Mexican coke is better than ours and jarritos is as well.

[Parlay44]

Is JJ short for Va-JJ

[svenski7]

(02-06-2014 06:53 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(02-06-2014 06:41 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Thanks. The bold section is the part I want to emphasize. I think it's fair to ask when I see posts questioning one's loyalty as an American whether they've put on a uniform, or done anything else selfless in service of the country.

JFK said it best.

Have you ever worn a uniform?

Wald

he just freaking answered that.

wach auf!

[Tenerife]

(02-06-2014 02:08 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

^ alright well you have basically proven the point. Bringing in best and brightest (immigration) causes the country to become powerful.

If people believe they can create power without change they are insane. The whole point of power is to have an edge, ie be different and ahead

If you don't bring them in well, they are coming for you anyway ie: how the USA was formed so better to play offense.

The USA was formed by Northwestern European people. It reached the zenith of its power by being homogenous and pulling talent from a limited selection of ethnic groups. At the end of World War II and until even the 80s, America was mostly a white country..

Now america is starting to decline, at the same time it is becoming more multicultural. As it's ethnic composition mirrors the third world, so will it's economy and cultural power. Just watch.

While I agree with your general argument that bring in the BEST is helpful, even if it's a mix of people, america is bringing in the POOREST and most UNEDUCATED people in large numbers, as well as smart people.

An increasingly large divide is developing between the upper class and the lower class, as it does in most racially mixed societies around the world.

More poor, uneducated masses from the third world are not going to help the country. They are a drain on the system.

[Walderschmidt]

(02-06-2014 07:18 PM)svenski7 Wrote:  

he just freaking answered that.

wach auf!

Actually, NY Digital beat you to the chase pointing that out for me.

You snooze, you lose.

Wach auf.

Wald

[Saga]

(02-06-2014 06:11 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

No one in the "real world" is listening to the guy who signs his checks from the back.

Do servicemen sign their checks on the front?

[Peregrine]

This thread O/U 15 pages - which would you take?

[Aliblahba]

(02-06-2014 07:50 PM)Saga Wrote:  

(02-06-2014 06:11 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

No one in the "real world" is listening to the guy who signs his checks from the back.

Do servicemen sign their checks on the front?

A veteran is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The 'United States of America', for an amount of 'up to and including my life'.

[samsamsam]

(02-06-2014 07:38 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

(02-06-2014 02:08 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

^ alright well you have basically proven the point. Bringing in best and brightest (immigration) causes the country to become powerful.

If people believe they can create power without change they are insane. The whole point of power is to have an edge, ie be different and ahead

If you don't bring them in well, they are coming for you anyway ie: how the USA was formed so better to play offense.

The USA was formed by Northwestern European people. It reached the zenith of its power by being homogenous and pulling talent from a limited selection of ethnic groups. At the end of World War II and until even the 80s, America was mostly a white country..

Now america is starting to decline, at the same time it is becoming more multicultural. As it's ethnic composition mirrors the third world, so will it's economy and cultural power. Just watch.

While I agree with your general argument that bring in the BEST is helpful, even if it's a mix of people, america is bringing in the POOREST and most UNEDUCATED people in large numbers, as well as smart people.

An increasingly large divide is developing between the upper class and the lower class, as it does in most racially mixed societies around the world.

More poor, uneducated masses from the third world are not going to help the country. They are a drain on the system.

Not all immigrants are uneducated. If anything there are a lot of poorly educated non immigrants in America. I do know you mention that educated people are also immigrating.

In 2011, 76% of patents awarded to the top 10 patent-producing American universities had at least one foreign-born inventor, according to the report.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/06/2...versities/

I doubt if you didn't have immigration, that some how America would be perfect. From what I understand, the civil rights and woman's movements were active in the 1960s. I don't think immigration (especially from Mexico) was that high at that time. Nothing says without immigration, you still don't see the decline (or at least some portion of it).

Whites are not doing the greatest job of educating their children, the best and brightest (laugh) major in Woman's studies. My point is you can't make the assumption that everything would be fine if it were not for the immigrants, from a technology/major advancements America has benefited from immigrants. Feminism would still be around since that is driven by mainly white chicks.

People go to where the opportunity is. If Americans didn't think they were too good for working in the farms or fast food, maybe there would not be so many immigrants that are being criticized on this thread. It isn't their fault, white America let that happen. If anything they should be admired for the risks they took to get here. How many of us have risked our lives? Not seen our families for decades?

Let us not forget slavery. Or mistreating of factory workers during the Industrial Revolution all in the name of Capitalism that built America. These immigrants are capitalists as well - seeing an opportunity, but some how that is not ok.

I am indifferent to the matter in the sense that I cannot nor do I care to spend my efforts trying to change immigration policies in the US. But America is considered a melting pot and the rights of the minority are supposed to be protected as well.

What I do find fascinating is some of the hardcore beliefs on both sides.

EDIT: Looks like in 1942 through 1964 there was a program called "the bracero program" which brought in laborers from Mexico. So it seems during a White America (mainly because Americans were in WWII) Mexicans planted some roots in America. So, without trying to be asshole, Americans sort of helped make the problem that we are now discussing. I get it was a program and was documented vs the undocumented that the majority of this thread has been about. But you can't deny that Mexicans wen back to Mexico and spoke about their experiences it didn't prime the pump.

"Over the next two decades about 4.8 million Mexican workers came into the country and provided cheap labor to many U.S. employers. Although braceros were supposed to be hired only if an adequate number of Americans could not be found, employers preferred the foreign workers who were willing to work for lesser wages." So capitalism that built the country brought it down? Just a question.

Like I said, I accept that their are illegal immigrants here. If a fair discussion is to be had, all non native Americans are illegal immigrants here.

(02-06-2014 07:51 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

This thread O/U 15 pages - which would you take?

Over. You forgot to ask about the number of people getting banned or temp banned lol.

Quote:

The Great Ali
A veteran is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The 'United States of America', for an amount of 'up to and including my life'.

I quote Ali because he is right.

About 30 percent of the military is made up of minorities. And correct me if I am wrong (and I don't mean to overstep given the number of Vets on this board) but a lot of people do it for opportunity, some do it for tradition in their families. Some are also very poor. But you don't see a ton of wealthy people sending their sons and daughters to join the military. They do back politicians who willingly send sons and daughters to war. But not their own kids.

So a minority who is willing to give his or her last full measure of devotion for a nation that oftentimes worships the dollar more than people is a bad person?

http://www.americaspromise.org/Our-Work/...mbers.aspx

[Peregrine]

(02-06-2014 08:10 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

ome of the hardcore beliefs on both sides.

(02-06-2014 07:51 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

This thread O/U 15 pages - which would you take?

Over. You forgot to ask about the number of people getting banned or temp banned lol.

O/U 0.5 for temp bans.

[samsamsam]

(02-06-2014 08:15 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

(02-06-2014 08:10 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

ome of the hardcore beliefs on both sides.

(02-06-2014 07:51 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  

This thread O/U 15 pages - which would you take?

Over. You forgot to ask about the number of people getting banned or temp banned lol.

O/U 0.5 for temp bans.

If you said permanent I would have bet real money, I think J.J got the boot.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(02-06-2014 08:10 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Quote:

The Great Ali
A veteran is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The 'United States of America', for an amount of 'up to and including my life'.

I quote Ali because he is right.

About 30 percent of the military is made up of minorities. And correct me if I am wrong (and I don't mean to overstep given the number of Vets on this board) but a lot of people do it for opportunity, some do it for tradition in their families. Some are also very poor. But you don't see a ton of wealthy people sending their sons and daughters to join the military. They do back politicians who willingly send sons and daughters to war. But not their own kids.

So a minority who is willing to give his or her last full measure of devotion for a nation that oftentimes worships the dollar more than people is a bad person?

Absolutely. The US Army is the one institution most responsible for the creation of the black middle class. Blacks have had more leadership positions in the Army than any other public or private institution. They make up more than a quarter of its members which is more than double the percentage of the general black population in the US.

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unb...moskos.htm

The vast majority of college educated African-Americans have a relative that served in the military.

What's also interesting is that African-Americans have served in every war since the nation's founding.

The most well-traveled black men I know are former military guys. In fact, I'm almost always asked when I'm overseas whether I'm in the military or used to be.

The desegregation of the armed forces is said to what have helped pave the way for the dismantling of Jim Crow laws.