[Roosh]

For a second I thought we were making a dent on feminism, but fat acceptance is making great strides in spite of the fact that obesity is detriment to human health. Heterophobia has yet to peak. "Male privilege" is becoming ingrained in America's cultural fiber. "Rape culture" advocates are making in-roads with kangaroo courts in colleges. The list goes on.

It's nice that the red pill is growing, and that more people are voicing our beliefs in comments of mainstream articles, but it's hard not to look at the general trends and realize that we are on the losing side. Things are getting worse, not better, and I wonder if it's really worth it to save American ideals instead of just helping men outright expatriate. I wonder if it's fruitless to make a stand. I'm far away from what many of you have to personally experience from living and working in America, but from my pleasant European city it's too upsetting to read just about any news coming out of the States. I don't have much hope.

[Aliblahba]

The pendulum is never centered in society. Right now we're seeing the shift to the left, but it'll lose momentum and head the other direction. When it does pass that middle mark, that is considered the 'golden eras'. But the shift this time is extreme, and will take something drastic to bring change. That part is going to suck.

[iknowexactly]

I talk at work with guys who are regularly denied alternate work schedules ( 4 day weeks, part time etc) while the same things are regularly granted without question to women. Also out and out rude unprofessional outbursts by women are far more tolerated than if a man does it.

In the quasi-military environment where I work, men are simply too dignified and proud to squeal and rant like bitches, if they are pissed, they ignore you, and you figure out how you fucked up and try to regain their trust again.

Even female contractors, lower on the status pole than perm employees, get more perks than a veteran male full timer. Obviously no one is even thinking of lawsuits. Yet.

I see light bulbs go on when I point out "Chick a and B got that schedule, and you and I were denied. Looks like sex discrimination doesn't it"

Things like this take decades to work out and balance out. Look at what happened with civil rights for black people.

Political change happens in decade, 50-year, and century blocks, not in single year blocks. Radical 2nd wave feminism is just about 50 years old now, and with family court and female preference at work we're just about at the bottom of the pit. First wave feminism 100 years ago was reasonably fair, they just got the vote.

At the same time Roosh is right about where the pendulum is now, and you have to consider your status ladder rung, time left to change it, and overall fit in the culture. I for one at 50+ won't be around long enough to see relatively fair treatment for men come back in the USA.

The first Philippines trip is coming.

If you're a 6'4" blond 22 year old fraternity king, you might be getting tons o' sluts climbing up the cock carousel.

1) Men are fertility detectors, women are status detectors.
2) Women don't have thoughts, they have reflexes.

Just had to say that...hahahah

[speakeasy]

(12-22-2013 02:24 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

For a second I thought we were making a dent on feminism, but fat acceptance is making great strides in spite of the fact that obesity is detriment to human health. Heterophobia has yet to peak. "Male privilege" is becoming ingrained in America's cultural fiber. "Rape culture" advocates are making in-roads with kangaroo courts in colleges. The list goes on.

It's nice that the red pill is growing, and that more people are voicing our beliefs in comments of mainstream articles, but it's hard not to look at the general trends and realize that we are on the losing side. Things are getting worse, not better, and I wonder if it's really worth it to save American ideals instead of just helping men outright expatriate. I wonder if it's fruitless to make a stand. I'm far away from what many of you have to personally experience from living and working in America, but from my pleasant European city it's too upsetting to read just about any news coming out of the States. I don't have much hope.

Only choices are: 1) Make your money here, save up and get out of dodge or 2) Find a great feminine woman(preferably a fresh off the boat immigrant) hunker down and isolate yourself from the negative cultural trends as best as possible.

[ms224]

Yes, to the bitter end.

We are the shining light of the world. People beat down our doors because the rest of the world is a shit hole.

Not that long ago, we were proud, strong (and pretty!).

Most of the crap that you point to as being wrong (feminazism, fatties, pseudo- marxism, PC etc) go against the grain of America historically. A lot of the arguments on their side is also, well hey the rest of the world does it like this (ex. universal healthcare/welfare, high taxes, gun control, mass transit, the list is pretty long).

The point of this Great Experiment was, really, that everyone has a chance at their own slice of pie. Free from royals (or apparatchiks) to come and take it away. To lift the boot off one's neck and unleash free thought and free enterprise.

Millions fought, suffered and more then a few died for this idea.

Are we to simply let a pack of vengeful commie barbaric bitches destroy the greatest experiment in history?
Shit, do you think pajama boy will take up arms for his cause?

And what the alternative?

Run away?

A glossed over kgbeshnik like Putin? Don't doubt for a moment that if you cross him in moscow they will throw you into a
tuberculosis ridden cell in without a second thought.

For all the problems we have, I generally like it here.

[Quintus Curtius]

This is a topic that we go back and forth on all the time, and it never gets old, because it touches the very essence of our lives. It's a subject of real anguish. I will be saying more about this very subject tomorrow in my post at ROK. But for now I can offer this opinion.

Is America worth saving? This question assumes we have the power to "save" something. We do not. The forces of historical decay will run their course over us, just as they have for countless empires past. To paraphrase the last line of Moby Dick, the "great shroud" of the Sea of history will roll on as it rolled five thousand years ago.

We can no more save the US than the monks and friars huddled in monasteries in the Dark Ages could protect a great state (Rome) from collapsing in the face of the barbarian deluge. And that's what we're facing today. A deluge of barbarism. But we can preserve what is worth preserving, in the hope that future generations will thank us. Just as posterity thanks those scribes and monks for copying and preserving the best of classical Greco-Roman civilization.

Our purpose should be to focus on saving ourselves, focusing on our own enlightenment, our own "salvation" (for lack of a better word). Most of us here are focused on patiently saving money for the inevitable day when we will have to hit the eject button and give the middle finger to the US and all its nonsense.

But even then, there will be challenges. Other parts of the world have their own problems, and we shouldn't expect an easy ride anywhere. The only solution is to develop ourselves in every way, so that we can become "islands unto ourselves" as much as possible. Let the world stew in its own rotten juices, I say.

Some places are better than others, to be sure. Eventually, I plan to say adieu to the US. But I will do it on my own terms. Until then, we have to keep the torch of Reason burning, keep the morale up, and not give in to the tide of barbarism. We can do no more.

[Aliblahba]

Yeah, now's the best time to be racking in the money. North Dakota is still going, W. Texas is better, and soon the Gulf Coast is going to kick off harder than post-Katrina. Huge money in the trades, women have never been better dressed (yoga pants), hotter, or sluttier, we still have guns and booze. Going abroad might be more exciting, but things aren't too bad here yet. Most of the bad we see only exists on the internet. Log off and it looks a lot better.

The problem is, when America tanks, most of the world will be looking worse, and the places that don't aren't going to be welcoming strangers in at that point.

[iknowexactly]

(12-22-2013 02:37 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(12-22-2013 02:24 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I'm far away from what many of you have to personally experience from living and working in America, but from my pleasant European city it's too upsetting to read just about any news coming out of the States. I don't have much hope.

Only choices are: 1) Make your money here, save up and get out of dodge or 2) Find a great feminine woman(preferably a fresh off the boat immigrant) hunker down and isolate yourself from the negative cultural trends as best as possible.

This raises the interesting question about how to best isolate in a pleasant area. Utah? Far Northern Calif? Montana?

[commiejoe]

This kind of question seems like "pass the buck".
We as a responsible generation need to be pro-active in restructuring society.
This means doing the hard work, even if we don't see the results by our death.

Personally, I've been trying to adjust the mindsets of my nieces and nephews (and my own children when that time comes). I am trying to cut through all the bullshit that my nephews are being taught, countering the crap that they are being brought up with, ie; bow down to girls, always give them the right of way, "poor" people need to be pitied and coddled, blah blah blah. Every once in a while I am able to convey ideals to a niece, the importance of being able to cook, how respect should only be received when you've earned it, and how they will truly be happy vs microwave happiness (don't be a slut, do everything you can to please your husband, work out=respect yourself to gain respect, etc.)

It's an uphill battle, it takes many reiterations, and it's difficult to fight, BUT if it was easy, it wouldn't be worth it.

I need to constantly give the other side of the coin to anything their facebook-all-fucking-day mothers tell them. I need to counter all the ridiculous shit that is being conveyed through media and try to get them to understand that just because it's on the internet and tv, doesn't mean it's true.

To save America (or whatever culture YOU are in) is going to take hard work and dedication, but fuck you if you just let the next generation deal with it.

[Sawyer]

I'm not sure what I'd do without the fight so I'd make a horrible expat. I wouldn't want to be one of those guys who moves somewhere and then interferes with the local politics.

I guess for a guy like me, who loves trouble, who loves standing alone, and who is extremely comfortable poking hornets nests, this time in the US may be just right. I wouldn't know what to do with myself otherwise.

[SheriffBart]

In terms of MRA thinking where you suppose that you'll have some appreciable impact on legal/economic circumstances, I don't believe it's worth the effort. We've crossed the tipping point where the country will just have to learn from their mistakes. Let them have Obamacare, single mother subsidies, gun control, and censorship and see what it gets them. People get the government/society they deserve. I believe the idea of liberty and the Constitution are always available for Americans to turn back to when we realize our mistakes. Let the government and the dollar/economy crash along with all these other ridiculous first world notions our opulence has bought us and go back to the drawing board.

In cultural or intellectual terms, it's always worth fighting off bad philosophy. There are real people out there who can benefit from good perspectives regardless of the direction of the mainstream.

[speakeasy]

(12-22-2013 02:53 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(12-22-2013 02:37 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(12-22-2013 02:24 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I'm far away from what many of you have to personally experience from living and working in America, but from my pleasant European city it's too upsetting to read just about any news coming out of the States. I don't have much hope.

Only choices are: 1) Make your money here, save up and get out of dodge or 2) Find a great feminine woman(preferably a fresh off the boat immigrant) hunker down and isolate yourself from the negative cultural trends as best as possible.

This raises the interesting question about how to best isolate in a pleasant area. Utah? Far Northern Calif? Montana?

Man, I recently took a 2,000 mile road trip across America. One thing I can say is that there is a hell of a lot of empty space in this country. Finding isolation isn't hard, even just outside of major cities. But I didn't simply mean geographic isolation, but also isolation from pop culture. I don't need to know what every bimbo celebrity with a Twitter account has to say. And I'm not interested in women who care about following them either. As is, I don't watch television at all and pay no attention to celebrity gossip or pop stars. Just give me an internet connection to browse sites of interest and get my work done, a gym, a mountain bike for cardio and some music and I'm cool. I've always had a closely knit group of like-minded friends, but in many ways I just feel like an island to myself.

[ms224]

Once you cross I35 going west, population density completely drops until you get to I5 along the coast. (with a few clustered cities in every now and then).

Part of the reason all the white supremacy cooks wind up in eastern Washington/Idaho is because one of them thought that would be the area least prone to nuclear war and natural disasters.

This is in back country Idaho.

New pickup line, sweetie, do you want to go on a picnic this weekend?
In my aeroplane?

For the price of a shitty house in most any major city on the east coast, you can buy a ranch out here.

[iknowexactly]

(12-22-2013 03:07 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(12-22-2013 02:53 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(12-22-2013 02:37 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(12-22-2013 02:24 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I'm far away from what many of you have to personally experience from living and working in America, but from my pleasant European city it's too upsetting to read just about any news coming out of the States. I don't have much hope.

Only choices are: 1) Make your money here, save up and get out of dodge or 2) Find a great feminine woman(preferably a fresh off the boat immigrant) hunker down and isolate yourself from the negative cultural trends as best as possible.

This raises the interesting question about how to best isolate in a pleasant area. Utah? Far Northern Calif? Montana?

Man, I recently took a 2,000 mile road trip across America. One thing I can say is that there is a hell of a lot of empty space in this country. Finding isolation isn't hard, even outside of major cities. But I didn't simply mean geographic isolation, but also isolation from pop culture.

It's easy to say "go anywhere" but if you've ever lived near a major city, and you move to a true small town where usually all the smart people leave every generation, you might feel quite bored and isolated.

I should have specified I was wondering what small cities could you go to that will offer some good things without the TwitteringFacewhoreTakeover factor.

Smartphones are everywhere unless you get into the real boonies where very few women want to live, it's kind of up to the culture to keep your wife from being a Facewhore .

A town where outdoor stuff is popular might be good. I went on a trip around the western USA and visited Moab, a great town for mountain biking in Utah. It's kind of small and seasonal, but in some ways that's good if you can keep an eye on your smokeshow foreign wife there. Bozeman MT is nice too.

[Enigma]

It's not just the societal ills that worry me, it's the constantly looming economic disaster, and eroding personal freedoms as the police state grows. I could give two fucks about fat people in comparison to people getting locked up left and right for breaking nonsensical laws (or none at all) to feed the privately owned prison system. The thing that worries me most about fat acceptance is not the disgusting fat asses, it's the building push for censorship.

The beauty of this all is the internet. You can make US dollars from any country in the world. You can fight against the cultural problems from a European poosy paradise, as Roosh has proven. They can't censor you in another country. Meanwhile, people within the States are getting fired for things they post on social media as government organizations monitor what kind of porn you watch.

[iknowexactly]

(12-22-2013 02:53 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

The problem is, when America tanks, most of the world will be looking worse, and the places that don't aren't going to be welcoming strangers in at that point.

Almost all places, say Switzerland, will welcome your money.

[iknowexactly]

(12-22-2013 02:53 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Most of us here are focused on patiently saving money for the inevitable day when we will have to hit the eject button and give the middle finger to the US and all its nonsense.

If you haven't lived abroad in a 2nd or 3rd world country, and done without, for example, the rule of law and sanitation in the US, among other things we take for granted here in the US, such talk is juvenile.

Roosh is rolling in the best 2nd world countries (Poland) with an independent biz, stellar game, relative youth and height genetics, thus his viewpoint is that of sort of a "1%-er expat." , much more successful than many who will try it, including myself.

[iknowexactly]

(12-22-2013 03:16 PM)ms224 Wrote:  

For the price of a shitty house in most any major city on the east coast, you can buy a ranch out here.

Yeah, but i'm too lazy to save up 150k or whatever...

[birdrussell]

I have to think that america isn't so far gone but we are a quiet minority compared to the white nights, femanazis, fatties.... hell you get the idea, all that we stand against. we have to make more noise. it pisses "them" off when we strike a blow with an article that goes viral, just like it pisses us off when some lgbt organization builds another inroad for their cause. I think us expats feel it a bit more because america is our home and we love it but now we are planted in a civilization full of beautiful feminine women and we want that for our homes our brothers and sisters. yes sisters. I think if women stopped trying to be men they would find more enjoyment out of life. just my way of looking at it.

[Veloce]

Everyone's pretty much hit on the key points so far.

I see things in my daily life that annoy me. But they don't get to me. I fly under the radar. I've managed to eke out a happy life, a nice apartment that's filled with all of my interests. Books. Music. My two cats. Obedient filipino gf. Occasional tryst with some strange. Flexible work schedule.

Am I fulfilling my potential? Probably not. There are probably places out there that could make me happier. I think any man could say that for himself. But right now I feel like I'm making major deposits in the game of life with the amount of money that I make and save. I'm on a solid financial path that will allow me to retire in my 40s unless something goes terribly wrong. I highly doubt I could say the same thing if I was working overseas. That presents me with a choice: I could work overseas and have more adventure in my life, but I wouldn't have much for my future, or I can make my own happiness in the U.S. and say Fuck You to the man in about 10-15 years. I'm choosing the latter.

The world is ever changing. By the time I have enough money to relocate overseas, who knows what will happen between now and then. Quintus Curtius nailed it; the best we can all do is work on ourselves and be the best-adapted men in today's world.

I have no hope for the U.S., the notion of a grassroots movement changing things for the better is bullshit. As red-pillers, the best thing we can do is stand our ground, enjoy life for what it is, and sit back and laugh.

[Aliblahba]

(12-22-2013 03:22 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(12-22-2013 02:53 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

The problem is, when America tanks, most of the world will be looking worse, and the places that don't aren't going to be welcoming strangers in at that point.

Almost all places, say Switzerland, will welcome your money.

Yeah, if you got a lot of it. I'd day 7 figures for Europe, low to mid 6's for the 3rd world. Consider in the initial buy in and then sustained COL for a few years.

If it gets bad enough a pension may not cut it. Cold hard cash in the local monetary repository. Money talks and promises walk.

Of course, a lot of countries might be crossed off the list due to pure instability, or good ole fashion American hate. If the world economy collapses, it'll collectively point fingers at us. Might make it hard to get love from thy new neighbors.

[Akula]

America is basically almost un-savable now. It's too far gone. I really think that all you can do is just ride it out and try to make the best of it if you're there. Better yourself and fight the good fight in terms of preaching to those around you, and create some options for you and your family in the future in other places. But even that's becoming increasingly tough these days. It's a mini-police state that's encroaching on every part of your life day in and day out. They tax us worldwide (almost nobody else does), persecute us at home for minor crimes, destroy honest married men who stand by their crappy, juvenile and spoiled wives via draconian, misandrist divorce laws, and can dig into every part of your life via the NSA, IRS or whatever and basically destroy you if you make one wrong move. I mean for Christ sake the Department of Education has the ability to send some sort of enforcement/SWAT team to your house if they think they have just cause.

We're riding on the coattails of a golden age (of sorts) that no longer exists. The US political system, with all the lobbying and special interests - both domestic and foreign - is increasingly corrupt to the core. It's not just all the ridiculous special interests groups like the Feminists or the Gay Lobby, or the other crazy, counterproductive 'victimization' lobbies, it's also our slavish reliance on oil and the Saudis, ME etc., our stupid and naive foreign policy of 'democratization', and even the lunacy of all the incredibly obese land whales running around while popular culture tells everyone it's ok to be fat and you should instead celebrate it.

As for me I am pretty much resigned to the fact that I can never truly go back full time. Marriage in the US is too dangerous, so is just having kids with a woman. The women are basically undatable. Nor do I want to give them the satisfaction of being able to even be with me. I'd rather knock up 10 Russian girls and pay for their kids for the rest of my life than get trapped by some 30-something Feminist & fat US girl. Things like catastrophic medical expenses are a real problem too, as I've seen with my relatives who've gotten ill in the later stages of life. I hate to make it sound so dire, but in many ways it is if you really think about it.

Trouble is, where is there going to be to go in a few years/decades? Hell I don't know anymore. Europe is a wreck, and even more PC and Feminist than the US in many places. Forget living in Russia or Ukraine at least in terms of buying property. Sh*t I don't know....wish I did!

[Sp5]

Some historical perspective: when were men of all classes more free and more prosperous than right now in the USA?

When did they have more economic opportunity, more access to knowledge, more ability to express themselves, more mobility and more sexual freedom?

This forum and blogs are examples of that. No human society will ever be perfect.

When did people have the right to pursue happiness more than now?

Support, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, or the equivalent ideals in your own country. These are expressions, or the grounding law of what V.S. Naipaul called "the Universal Civilization."

Quote:

. . . I suppose I have sensed it most of my life, but I have understood it philosophically only during the preparation of this talk—has been the beauty of the idea of the pursuit of happiness. Familiar words, easy to take for granted; easy to misconstrue. This idea of the pursuit of happiness is at the heart of the attractiveness of the civilization to so many outside it or on its periphery. I find it marvelous to contemplate to what an extent, after two centuries, and after the terrible history of the earlier part of this [20th] century, the idea has come to a kind of fruition. It is an elastic idea; it fits all men. It implies a certain kind of society, a certain kind of awakened spirit. I don’t imagine my father’s parents would have been able to understand the idea. So much is contained in it: the idea of the individual, responsibility, choice, the life of the intellect, the idea of vocation and perfectibility and achievement. It is an immense human idea. It cannot be reduced to a fixed system. It cannot generate fanaticism. But it is known to exist; and because of that, other more rigid systems in the end blow away.

http://www.city-journal.org/article02.php?aid=1597

[Brodiaga]

(12-22-2013 03:45 PM)Akula Wrote:  

Trouble is, where is there going to be to go in a few years/decades? Hell I don't know anymore. Europe is a wreck, and even more PC and Feminist than the US in many places. Forget living in Russia or Ukraine at least in terms of buying property. Sh*t I don't know....wish I did

I believe Asia is the answer.

"Go East, Young Man."

[Vicious]

America is the greatest cultural influence on the rest of the world.

It has to be saved in order to save everything else.