[OkStudies]

In my opinion, yes. Here's why:

Do truly high-status men get "flaked" with any regularity to make it upsetting? The fact that your getting flaked on in the first place probably means your beta, by definition.

I'd even venture to say your flake rate is a good way to measure your status. The higher the rate of flakes, the lower you are in their minds. I imagine guys with little to no game or status don't even get to the point of getting numbers. Their effective flake rate is 100%.

[Therapsid]

(10-17-2013 10:46 PM)OkStudies Wrote:  

In my opinion, yes. Here's why:

Do truly high-status men get "flaked" with any regularity to make it upsetting? The fact that your getting flaked on in the first place probably means your beta, by definition.

I'd even venture to say your flake rate is a good measurement of your status. The higher the rate of flakes, the lower you are in their minds. I imagine guys with little to no game or status don't even get to the point of getting numbers. Their effective flake rate is 100%.

No. It's not as simple as that.

Think about it - a guy who never goes for a girl will never get flaked on.

But even a guy who only occasionally goes for a girl who is beneath his standards or is in his social circle might be flaked on very rarely. Doesn't mean he has game.

As a man improves his standards, he could be flaked on more often *despite* having better game.

[OkStudies]

(10-17-2013 11:03 PM)Therapsid Wrote:  

Think about it - a guy who never goes for a girl will never get flaked on.

That's effectively a flake rate of 100%. Yes, it's not technically a flake, but if you don't take shots you won't make hoops. It's equivalent either way.

(10-17-2013 11:03 PM)Therapsid Wrote:  

But even a guy who only occasionally goes for a girl who is beneath his standards or is in his social circle might be flaked on very rarely. Doesn't mean he has game.

He has relative high-status within that context, which kinda proves my point.

(10-17-2013 11:03 PM)Therapsid Wrote:  

As a man improves his standards, he could be flaked on more often *despite* having better game.

Because his standards went up without a corresponding rise in status. You're basically admitting that game alone will not decrease your flake rate.

Game and status are two different things, the former being very poorly/loosely defined. I would call it a self protection/value-offering strategy. Social status works all the time in the background and can't be "turned off" by the man.

[Samseau]

(10-17-2013 10:46 PM)OkStudies Wrote:  

Do truly high-status men get "flaked" with any regularity to make it upsetting?

Are you kidding me? I've seen Doctors/Lawyers who can't get a date to save their lives.

Quote:

The fact that your getting flaked on in the first place probably means your beta, by definition.

No, it means no such thing, because no man gets 100% of women. Even the most alpha of alphas approach a mere 10% of women they approach (which is astronomical - 1 out of 10 is easy!)

[Doctore]

Few men had/have a higher status than this fella:

"I'm supposed to have a Ph.D. on the subject of women. But the truth is I've flunked more often than not."

- Frank Sinatra

Yep, he got flaked on a lot.

Unless you're Genghis Khan, which means flaking on you is punishable by death not only to her but her entire extended family, you'll be flaked on if you're active in the dating market.

I get mildly annoyed if the flake is close to meetup time, but usually I plan it so that I have interesting stuff to do at the venue by myself anyway, so I don't get upset anymore.

A mate of mine loves to laugh at me for getting flaked on all the time, but the fact is that I'm out there trying, while he's too terrified to do so and settles for an ugly chick who picks him.

[OkStudies]

(10-18-2013 12:05 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Are you kidding me? I've seen Doctors/Lawyers who can't get a date to save their lives.

Poor example. Let me put it this way, do you know any A-list (or even B-list) actors who "can't get a date?". Yeah.

(10-18-2013 12:05 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

No, it means no such thing, because no man gets 100% of women. Even the most alpha of alphas approach a mere 10% of women they approach (which is astronomical - 1 out of 10 is easy!)

If Brad Pitt or Jude Law walked into your local nightclub I'd venture to say he could have at least 50% of the available women there (or even un-available) at will and most of the guys there would be helpless to do anything about it. He's not even in his prime career or age wise. That's astronomical.

[OkStudies]

(10-18-2013 12:21 AM)Doctore Wrote:  

Few men had/have a higher status than this fella:

My point is not that high-status guys are not ever flaked on, its that they are flaked on considerably (actually probably an order of magnitude) less than non high status guys. And if and when it does happen, they probably don't get upset over it (for obvious reasons).

[Samseau]

(10-18-2013 12:22 AM)OkStudies Wrote:  

(10-18-2013 12:05 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Are you kidding me? I've seen Doctors/Lawyers who can't get a date to save their lives.

Poor example. Let me put it this way, do you know any A-list (or even B-list) actors who "can't get a date?". Yeah.

(10-18-2013 12:05 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

No, it means no such thing, because no man gets 100% of women. Even the most alpha of alphas approach a mere 10% of women they approach (which is astronomical - 1 out of 10 is easy!)

If Brad Pitt or Jude Law walked into your local nightclub I'd venture to say he could have at least 50% of the available women there (or even un-available) at will and most of the guys there would be helpless to do anything about it. He's not even in his prime career or age wise. That's astronomical.

No, you're dreaming without experience. Many girls know they have no chance to hold onto a man like Brad Pitt and will prefer not to be a pump and dump. Lesser attractive girls reject more attractive men all the time just to avoid this.

Also, A-list movie stars make up .000001% of the male population, so comparing ourselves to them isn't meaningful. At most, A-list movie stars probably get close to a 20% success rate. That's 1 in 5, which is so much pussy they would run out of sperm before they could fuck every girl possible.

In the real world, a high value man gets 5% success rate or more. That's 1 in 20 girls, which is a very respectable number. The average beta is closer to 1 in 100 girls.

[Samseau]

(10-18-2013 12:25 AM)OkStudies Wrote:  

(10-18-2013 12:21 AM)Doctore Wrote:  

Few men had/have a higher status than this fella:

My point is not that high-status guys are not ever flaked on, its that they are flaked on considerably (actually probably an order of magnitude) less than non high status guys. And if and when it does happen, they probably don't get upset over it (for obvious reasons).

Even a high status man would get angry if he got flaked on 30 minutes before the date. His time is valuable and getting blown off is a waste of time.

[mental]

(10-17-2013 10:46 PM)OkStudies Wrote:  

The fact that your getting flaked on in the first place probably means your beta, by definition.

What if he was flaked on because she though he was too good to her and was afraid he would flake on her?
What if he was flaked on because she broke her leg and had to stay at home?
What if he was flaked on because she had to help her family at home?
What if he was flaked on because she was grounded and couldn't get out?

[Ternarydemonite]

Even master puas with a notch in the 100s, have rejection/flakes count in the 1000s. Most master puas started as betas and through hard work and many years, managed to overcome it.

Only true naturals and a-list actors, mobsters, pimps and some powerful politicians could really brag about closing rates over 50%.

Some women will even reject very high value males to brag that they rejected them. Also, it is true that some lesser value women, with no chance to keep him, will flake higher value males for fear of being pumped and dumped (a rightful fear by the way).

[michelin]

I am less upset by flaking girls than ones that show interest, give me their number, take me through a text hell, and then go radio-silence. That is an even bigger waste of time than the average flake.

But let's face it: even with tight game, 30% of our time is wasted on badly chosen targets, attention whores, and so on. For example when a girl tells you she got a BF 30 minutes or more into the conversation.

[Plutoman]

(10-18-2013 10:45 AM)michelin Wrote:  

I am less upset by flaking girls than ones that show interest, give me their number, take me through a text hell, and then go radio-silence. That is an even bigger waste of time than the average flake.

Best way, in my own experience, to avoid this is to not get a number for a number; rather to ask them out directly, then and there, and while not verbally saying date, show through tonal cues and body language that it is not just a friends thing.

I get more immediate rejections and more yes's - I haven't had a girl do that to me in months. You still get the rejections, but they are typically more up front. You can generally tell from her reaction as to how she'll be - if she's hesitating to say yes to a date, then you don't bother getting her number.

[VincentVinturi]

It's neither alpha nor beta. This whole alpha/beta thing gets on my damn nerves!

Your time is precious, so when a girl flakes and you're not in the mood for it you naturally get pissed off.

On another totally separate occasion, you're having a great day and got laid the night before, so when a different girl flakes on you, you're surprisingly zen about it.

Feeling a normal emotional response and then beating yourself up because it's "beta" or not sufficiently "alpha" or too "omega with notes of cassis" is a good way to drive yourself crazy without accomplishing squat.

Instead, do something proactive. Get a ton of girls lined up so when a girl does flake on you (and they will), you'll have options and you'll have an actual, real reason not to get upset, because you've diversified your emotional investments.

In business, they say refunds are the cost of doing business. Well, flaky behavior is the cost of scoring with hot chicks. Accept it as a truth, and take action to reduce its negative impact on your life.

Yes, taking action...THAT is most certainly not beta.

[rudeBoy]

(10-18-2013 12:01 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  

It's neither alpha nor beta. This whole alpha/beta thing gets on my damn nerves!

Your time is precious, so when a girl flakes and you're not in the mood for it you naturally get pissed off.

On another totally separate occasion, you're having a great day and got laid the night before, so when a different girl flakes on you, you're surprisingly zen about it.

Feeling a normal emotional response and then beating yourself up because it's "beta" or not sufficiently "alpha" or too "omega with notes of cassis" is a good way to drive yourself crazy without accomplishing squat.

Instead, do something proactive. Get a ton of girls lined up so when a girl does flake on you (and they will), you'll have options and you'll have an actual, real reason not to get upset, because you've diversified your emotional investments.

In business, they say refunds are the cost of doing business. Well, flaky behavior is the cost of scoring with hot chicks. Accept it as a truth, and take action to reduce its negative impact on your life.

Yes, taking action...THAT is most certainly not beta.

Yeah, I think we polarize behavior too much. Maybe I'm just human. I'm usually aloof about common woman behavior I'm going through a tough time in life and emotions are a little harder to control.

[Kingsley Davis]

(10-18-2013 08:22 AM)mental Wrote:  

(10-17-2013 10:46 PM)OkStudies Wrote:  

The fact that your getting flaked on in the first place probably means your beta, by definition.

What if he was flaked on because she though he was too good to her and was afraid he would flake on her?
What if he was flaked on because she broke her leg and had to stay at home?
What if he was flaked on because she had to help her family at home?
What if he was flaked on because she was grounded and couldn't get out?

Or had gas and farting up a storm.

[Que enspastic]

you guys need to hit up more volume. stack your date nights deep. flake last minute on option B if option A turns up, etc.

a true player starts flaking on his girls because there's only a few days in the week and so many time slots to hand out to girls.

[Duke Castile]

This just happened to me and I'm fucking livid.

I know that girls are stupid etc, there's no accounting for their dumbassery, but it still drives me up the wall.