[ballsyamog]

@ soup. I don't believe, but if someone tries to convince me otherwise they'll have to prove that he does, and that is where their logic always seems to fall apart

[Quintus Curtius]

(10-12-2013 07:37 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 10:42 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

The only reference to Jesus by a pre-Christian author is found in Tacitus (Annales 15.44). It's not a flattering reference. See what he says:

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular."


Basically, Jesus was viewed as an upstart trouble maker by the Hebrew and Roman authorities, and they moved swiftly to get rid of him before he became a bigger nuisance. But it just happened that, after his death, all the conditions were right for a mass movement to take off. Other men (especially Paul) turned him into a major prophet, and transformed the legend into a deity. But so what? This is how all religions take off....all religions need a symbol.

D00D!! this kind of fascinating background information about history would take someone hundreds of hours to find. Feel free to rant, muse and speculate at length about all this interesting stuff.

If you want to collaborate on a pop history book along the lines of "The Schizophrenic Genius Jesus" I'm down and have somewhat marginal but real academic credentials including published research, PM me! I kan write lik a real smert guy too.

Although the effect of nearly-illiterate con-man/Mormonism founder Joseph Smith on millions of otherwise intelligent Mormons is evidence to the contrary, I believe Jesus's effects on history are prima facie evidence of his genius. I also think the particular disorganized flavor of quotes attributed to him have similarities to the speech of schizophrenia-spectrum individuals, as well as of the deliberately disruptive phrasing used in hypnosis as done by Milton Erickson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_H._Erickson

The combination of a radically new positivism about the individual, expressed with brilliant turns-of-phrases born of something like a mental disorder, and a hyper-dramatic martyrdom story, combined to make him the most influential person in history.

"Jesus Was A Schizophrenic"

As always when an idea has legs, the Rate-a-Hate meter on this one could be high, thereby briefly gaining FacewhoreMatrixCombineBigBrother focus and gaining Fame+Money=YoungCunny.

____________________

This is a great point.
Religion in ancient Rome before Christianity was actually a virile, masculine affair. It was basically a state-sponsored religion, in which each family kept its "Penates" (household gods) and a small shrine to its ancestors. There were public temples, dedicated to this or that god in the Greco-Roman pantheon, and there were public festivals for ceremonies related to solstices, fertility rites, harvests, coming-of-age, and things like that.
It was not a messianic religion like Christianity or Islam. It looked a lot like (in my uninformed opinion) Japanese shinto, in that worshiping ancestors and the emperor as the head of state was part of the overall program.
And yes, religious fanaticism was not part of the Roman psyche. They may have been nationalistic and miltaristic, but they were not religious zealots.
One interesting final note: believe it or not, public temples in the ancient world were often places of congregation for prostitutes and debauchery. This tradition seems to have started in ancient Egypt and Babylonia. There were women specifically designated to serve in that capacity, who could be found in temples to Venus (Aphrodite) or Diana.
No wonder the early Christians were so scandalized by the pagan rites of Greece and Rome.

[Samseau]

Jesus wasn't fat. Atheists are Fatties

[Sherman]

The idea of God coming to earth and then being crucified as a common criminal would have been completely alien to a group of Roman Aristocrats. They just wouldn't have thought like this. In India, Krishna was god who came to earth in the form of a ruling Prince. This was the more plausible version of the ancient world. Even Islam doesn't believe in the crucifixion because Mohammad didn't believe it was possible for a profit to suffer this type of fate. Also, the idea seems to be red pill because good people are observed throughout history to have been executed or persecuted for bringing the truth. Socrates was executed for asking simple questions that showed people in power they didn't know what the hell they were talking about. To posit that God was executed by the authorites for bringing good news is radical and red pill.

If there wasn't an initial charismatic figure to start Christianity and get the ball rolling then where did it come from? To believe that an Obamacare type bureaucratic committee formed a belief system that has endured for over 2000 years seems the greater miracle.

[soup]

(10-12-2013 04:06 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(10-12-2013 03:40 PM)soup Wrote:  

Seriously- do you really believe in Jesus? You have to be kidding me.

As a more or less lifelong atheist, I have started to believe that as long as they are not maniacs bothering people, it's more important for religious people to be happy than it is for me to be right.

It's like do you run around yelling at five year olds there's no Santa Claus?

Not everyone has the intellectual ability to understand a world with a God is more unlikely than a non-patrolled chaotic world.

And not everyone likes the idea they are just going to totally disappear.

As long as they don't bother you with their beliefs, why try to convert them? IF that person is happier as a religious person, isn't it better that they remain like that? It's not like Athiests believe there's a philosphy test at the end of life, and you win if you were smart enough not to believe. They'll just disappear, there'll be no literal "heaven", but they will have been happier through their life.

I disagree completely.

Let's compare it to something we all have in common.

Would you rather that most men have bad game and be beta, or would you want all guys to step up their game and thwart all the feminism?

I think the world would be better if bullshit was revealed.

Otherwise, why even try to post on this forum?

[Teutatis]

(10-12-2013 11:37 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Jesus wasn't fat. Atheists are Fatties

I honestly can't tell if that was satirical or serious but I'm going with satirical.

[soup]

(10-13-2013 03:37 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

I honestly can't tell if that was satirical or not.

I hope it is. If you aren't sure..go fuck a hundred women and you will find your answer.

[iknowexactly]

(10-13-2013 03:32 AM)soup Wrote:  

Would you rather that most men have bad game and be beta, or would you want all guys to step up their game and thwart all the feminism?

One could also say, I think everyone should be able to run a four minute mile. Not all people have the capability or
desire to be philosophers.

It's not my prerogative or obligation in life to demand people listen to my ideas and values whether asked or not.

[TheSlayer]

(10-13-2013 03:37 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(10-12-2013 11:37 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Jesus wasn't fat. Atheists are Fatties

I honestly can't tell if that was satirical or serious but I'm going with satirical.

Of course, it was satirical. It's just a shock piece to spread #fatshamingweek. Take it in jest.

[soup]

All men have to take responsibility for themselves.

If you don't, then you are are a woman, and you probably prefer sugary drinks over savory.

Be a man.

Don't take the easy path just because it tickles your mental clit.

A clit is just a micro penis.

Have a real dick and don't believe in fairy tales.

It's ok if girls do that because they are stupid.

As a man, you should know better.

[soup]

(10-13-2013 03:42 AM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(10-13-2013 03:37 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(10-12-2013 11:37 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Jesus wasn't fat. Atheists are Fatties

I honestly can't tell if that was satirical or serious but I'm going with satirical.

Of course, it was satirical. It's just a shock piece to spread #fatshamingweek. Take it in jest.

You are wrong. Samseau, for all his great wisdom on dance floor game, seems to draw the line there, and is not joking.

[2Wycked]

Another mindless religion thread.

You people must either not agree with me on my observations about American psychology or not read what I write. You are literally dumber than shit on a stick if you think a society that is so deeply steeped in religiosity (obsessive-compulsive personality disorder) can suddenly cast off religion and become some sort of Eden of logic. Humans are not inherently logical, they act off many emotions which also includes personality disorders and biological imbalances. Further, Americans have incredibly deep-seated anti-social & rage issues. Any fucking wonder that narcissism papered over all that?

Seriously, how many whiny atheists are on this forum? If reason and logic are your sword and shield, how come you curl up and beg for authority figures to save you from dissent? Religious people built the greatness of this society. You flippantly piss it away, whining about the illogicality and idiocy of Christianity, all the while enjoying the fruits of its labor it has brought you. You are like a teenager mocking their parents for how hard they work, telling them that in the BMW they bought you.

That is the relationship between American narcissists and obsessive types. Obsessive types made the world around you and you piss all over it because you are so damn ignorant and privileged you have absolutely zero idea what it is like to not have the privileges you have.

[TheSlayer]

(10-13-2013 03:50 AM)soup Wrote:  

(10-13-2013 03:42 AM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(10-13-2013 03:37 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(10-12-2013 11:37 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Jesus wasn't fat. Atheists are Fatties

I honestly can't tell if that was satirical or serious but I'm going with satirical.

Of course, it was satirical. It's just a shock piece to spread #fatshamingweek. Take it in jest.

You are wrong. Samseau, for all his great wisdom on dance floor game, seems to draw the line there, and is not joking.

Soup, I know that Samseau is actually religious but that piece is obviously a hit piece since religious people are just as fat if not more so. I am sure Samseau knows a lot of religious countries (Islamic, Christian, and others) are very obese.

[TheSlayer]

(10-13-2013 03:52 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  

Another mindless religion thread.

You people must either not agree with me on my observations about American psychology or not read what I write. You are literally dumber than shit on a stick if you think a society that is so deeply steeped in religiosity (obsessive-compulsive personality disorder) can suddenly cast off religion and become some sort of Eden of logic. Humans are not inherently logical, they act off many emotions which also includes personality disorders and biological imbalances. Further, Americans have incredibly deep-seated anti-social & rage issues. Any fucking wonder that narcissism papered over all that?

Seriously, how many whiny atheists are on this forum? If reason and logic are your sword and shield, how come you curl up and beg for authority figures to save you from dissent? Religious people built the greatness of this society. You flippantly piss it away, whining about the illogicality and idiocy of Christianity, all the while enjoying the fruits of its labor it has brought you. You are like a teenager mocking their parents for how hard they work, telling them that in the BMV they bought for you.

That is the relationship between American narcissists and obsessive types. Obsessive types made the world around you and you piss all over it because you are so damn ignorant and privileged you have absolutely zero idea what it is like to not have the privileges you have.

[soup]

(10-13-2013 03:55 AM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(10-13-2013 03:50 AM)soup Wrote:  

(10-13-2013 03:42 AM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(10-13-2013 03:37 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(10-12-2013 11:37 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Jesus wasn't fat. Atheists are Fatties

I honestly can't tell if that was satirical or serious but I'm going with satirical.

Of course, it was satirical. It's just a shock piece to spread #fatshamingweek. Take it in jest.

You are wrong. Samseau, for all his great wisdom on dance floor game, seems to draw the line there, and is not joking.

Soup, I know that Samseau is actually religious but that piece is obviously a hit piece since religious people are just as fat if not more so. I am sure Samseau knows a lot of religious countries (Islamic, Christian, and others) are very obese.

I think you are wrong. I think Samseau is just trying to make Atheist look bad. Using the same kinds of techniques that feminists use to shame men.

What is the real shame here?

[soup]

(10-13-2013 03:52 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  

Another mindless religion thread.

You people must either not agree with me on my observations about American psychology or not read what I write. You are literally dumber than shit on a stick if you think a society that is so deeply steeped in religiosity (obsessive-compulsive personality disorder) can suddenly cast off religion and become some sort of Eden of logic. Humans are not inherently logical, they act off many emotions which also includes personality disorders and biological imbalances. Further, Americans have incredibly deep-seated anti-social & rage issues. Any fucking wonder that narcissism papered over all that?

Seriously, how many whiny atheists are on this forum? If reason and logic are your sword and shield, how come you curl up and beg for authority figures to save you from dissent? Religious people built the greatness of this society. You flippantly piss it away, whining about the illogicality and idiocy of Christianity, all the while enjoying the fruits of its labor it has brought you. You are like a teenager mocking their parents for how hard they work, telling them that in the BMV they bought for you.

That is the relationship between American narcissists and obsessive types. Obsessive types made the world around you and you piss all over it because you are so damn ignorant and privileged you have absolutely zero idea what it is like to not have the privileges you have.

I don't think anybody here thinks that what you say in the first paragraph is possible.

Man, you write a lot of stuff, but nothing that I've read by you has helped me in my quest for pussy yet.

Did you drop any good game posts or threads yet? Please list them.

I respect truth. I refuse to believe in bullshit. I don't have time.

Let's get down to business.

You seem really intelligent, but socially awkward (like the time you told-off some female soldier instead of fucking her).

Give us the goods!

[TheSlayer]

(10-13-2013 04:00 AM)soup Wrote:  

I think you are wrong. I think Samseau is just trying to make Atheist look bad.

Maybe but who cares?

Look Soup, you and I and Teedub and many others posted in that religion thread and debated and discussed religion with Samseau and other religious people. It's pointless. Surprising that religion has a following here but pointless nonetheless. They can believe in god, and I can believe in what I wanna believe in.

[soup]

(10-13-2013 04:06 AM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(10-13-2013 04:00 AM)soup Wrote:  

I think you are wrong. I think Samseau is just trying to make Atheist look bad.

Maybe but who cares?

Look Soup, you and I and Teedub and many others posted in that religion thread and debated and discussed religion with Samseau and other religious people. It's pointless. Surprising that religion has a following here but pointless nonetheless. They can believe in god, and I can believe in what I wanna believe in.

Yeah, maybe you are right, and I expect more competency from people in general.

[Teutatis]

(10-13-2013 03:52 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  

Another mindless religion thread.

You people must either not agree with me on my observations about American psychology or not read what I write. You are literally dumber than shit on a stick if you think a society that is so deeply steeped in religiosity (obsessive-compulsive personality disorder) can suddenly cast off religion and become some sort of Eden of logic. Humans are not inherently logical, they act off many emotions which also includes personality disorders and biological imbalances. Further, Americans have incredibly deep-seated anti-social & rage issues. Any fucking wonder that narcissism papered over all that?

I don't think there's anyone here that thinks religion can simply be erased from society in a moment, where did you get that? But it is a important and interesting discussion to have, and we have to start somewhere.

(10-13-2013 03:52 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  

Seriously, how many whiny atheists are on this forum? If reason and logic are your sword and shield, how come you curl up and beg for authority figures to save you from dissent?

What are you referring to exactly?

(10-13-2013 03:52 AM)2Wycked Wrote:  

Religious people built the greatness of this society. You flippantly piss it away, whining about the illogicality and idiocy of Christianity, all the while enjoying the fruits of its labor it has brought you. You are like a teenager mocking their parents for how hard they work, telling them that in the BMV they bought for you.

That is the relationship between American narcissists and obsessive types. Obsessive types made the world around you and you piss all over it because you are so damn ignorant and privileged you have absolutely zero idea what it is like to not have the privileges you have.

How does any of this makes religion true? So we shouldn't have this discussion at all? Because the parents bought the BMW we have to accept whatever they say as truth? And who is pissing all over the world and whining? Again I don't know what exactly you're referring to.

[soup]

(10-13-2013 03:55 AM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(10-13-2013 03:50 AM)soup Wrote:  

(10-13-2013 03:42 AM)TheSlayer Wrote:  

(10-13-2013 03:37 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(10-12-2013 11:37 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Jesus wasn't fat. Atheists are Fatties

I honestly can't tell if that was satirical or serious but I'm going with satirical.

Of course, it was satirical. It's just a shock piece to spread #fatshamingweek. Take it in jest.

You are wrong. Samseau, for all his great wisdom on dance floor game, seems to draw the line there, and is not joking.

Soup, I know that Samseau is actually religious but that piece is obviously a hit piece since religious people are just as fat if not more so. I am sure Samseau knows a lot of religious countries (Islamic, Christian, and others) are very obese.

Why make a hit piece?

[Edmund Dantes]

Honestly, America was founded upon Christian beliefs. Over time we started straying away from it and look where we are now. I may not be as devout in Catholicism as I was when I was younger but I still believe in Jesus. You may not and it's your opinion but please keep it civil. I would bet none of you would talk shit to a Muslim in real life because that fucker would behead you in front of the chief of police. People pick Christians because if they retaliate then they would be accused of not "loving their neighbor."

[Felix88]

Does it really bother anyone here whether Jesus existed or not? Call me hippy if you want but I still think he's an admirable figure along with the buddha and I'm not religious.

[Chillen0707]

no one on this thread knows, that I know!

[Sargon of Akkad]

(10-14-2013 12:14 AM)Edmund Dantes Wrote:  

Honestly, America was founded upon Christian beliefs. Over time we started straying away from it and look where we are now.

The US was not founded upon "Christian beliefs". Most of its founders were Deists and secularists who wanted to keep state and religion as far apart as possible. The statement that it was founded as a "Christian Country" is demonstrably false to anyone with even the slightest bit of knowledge history. The slogan on US coins was originally "E Pluribus Unum" (not in "God We Trust"), while the pledge of allegiance didn't include the words "Under God" until as late as the 1930s. The US is going down the drain for a whole number of reasons, but "not being religious enough" is the last of them.

Quote:

I would bet none of you would talk shit to a Muslim in real life because that fucker would behead you in front of the chief of police. People pick Christians because if they retaliate then they would be accused of not "loving their neighbor."

The only people who say these things are those who've never met single a Muslim in their entire lives and base their views of them entirely on what they see on TV.

[Tailgunner]

(10-14-2013 02:25 AM)Sargon of Akkad Wrote:  

(10-14-2013 12:14 AM)Edmund Dantes Wrote:  

Honestly, America was founded upon Christian beliefs. Over time we started straying away from it and look where we are now.

The US was not founded upon "Christian beliefs". Most of its founders were Deists and secularists who wanted to keep state and religion as far apart as possible. The statement that it was founded as a "Christian Country" is demonstrably false to anyone with even the slightest bit of knowledge history. The slogan on US coins was originally "E Pluribus Unum" (not in "God We Trust"), while the pledge of allegiance didn't include the words "Under God" until as late as the 1930s. The US is going down the drain for a whole number of reasons, but "not being religious enough" is the last of them.

Quote:

I would bet none of you would talk shit to a Muslim in real life because that fucker would behead you in front of the chief of police. People pick Christians because if they retaliate then they would be accused of not "loving their neighbor."

The only people who say these things are those who've never met single a Muslim in their entire lives and base their views of them entirely on what they see on TV.

Hmmm....so Muslims would take a book tour by a man claiming Muhammed was a confection of a group of Romans rather than an actual person well would they Sargon?
Wonder what Salman Rusdie or Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Theo Van Gogh would think of your view of "The Religion of Peace"?
Remember the crappy film about Islam last year? Caused hundreds of deaths around the world. And a rally in Sydney had the charming vision of a 6 yo hoy holding a sign saying "Behead all those who insult the Prophet".
A series of cartoons about religion in a Danish newspaper was fine til it was the turn of Islam- then the credible death threats began.
Christians are definitely a soft target for critics. This Atwell cat wouldn't have the balls to have a go at Islam in the same way.
Pretending Muslims would take this kind of criticism well is laughable.