[Tenerife]

I'm looking into buying either a 3 series beamer, or a honda civic from the 2000-2003 era, in the price range of 3-5 grand.

I was shocked at how cheap BMWs are at that age, even though they still look like new cars and are obviously more fashionable than a civic.

Are there any important caveats or drawbacks to be aware of with the purchase of the bmw? Do they require tons of repair that hondas usually don't?

Any thoughts?

[Screwston]

Bmws always have problems. Do regular maintance on a civic and it will be good. Get a lexus if you want a luxury car that wont give you headaches.

[WanderingSoul]

Never had a BMW, but knew a dude with an older 3 series and it was a piece of garbage. I usually see small scale dealers cruising them around, thinking they are cool.

I had a 94 Acura Integra, basically a better Civic, since I was 17. Just got rid of it recently. Had been sitting for the better part of 2-3 years. Closing in on 250k and ran great. I barely took are of it either.

I'd check out Integras also. Think they stopped making them in 00 or 02. Look better than a Civic and run just as well. More powerful engine.

Honda Prelude is an option as well.

[Sebastian]

Yeah people overthink about BMW. they think it's like porsche.

Btw, it was $30,000 new and after 10 years, it's about $10,000 or less. do you think it's cheap?

Anyways E46 bmw is not bad at all. you will have window regulator problems, maybe sunroof, other than that it's all maintenance like other cars. If you take it to the indie shops (buy parts online), it won't be any different than any other japanese cars. even better if you do small maintenance on your own. Make sure to check 'subframe issues' though.

[evilhei]

(10-06-2013 02:57 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  

Yeah people overthink about BMW. they think it's like porsche.

Btw, it was $30,000 new and after 10 years, it's about $10,000 or less. do you think it's cheap?

Anyways E46 bmw is not bad at all. you will have window regulator problems, maybe sunroof, other than that it's all maintenance like other cars. If you take it to the indie shops (buy parts online), it won't be any different than any other japanese cars. even better if you do small maintenance on your own. Make sure to check 'subframe issues' though.

Yea BMW-s are German made. Ive had 2 BMW-s in the past, E30 and E36 models. I loved the most E30 model, great and simple car and pleasure to drive. Although when they are old, it costs something to keep them running but not that much.

[JimNortonFan]

Civic runs forever with regular maintenance.

[Wreckingball]

(10-06-2013 06:29 AM)JimNortonFan Wrote:  

Civic runs forever with regular maintenance.

This.

And it's probably a better car than the BMW.

If you don't mind "status" (which btw you won't have when buying a 10year old bmw) go for the civic.
My father has a diesel Civic with 7-8 years with 240k Km. it still runs smooth and never had a problem with mechanics.

[Seth_Rose]

(10-06-2013 01:52 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Never had a BMW, but knew a dude with an older 3 series and it was a piece of garbage. I usually see small scale dealers cruising them around, thinking they are cool.

I had a 94 Acura Integra, basically a better Civic, since I was 17. Just got rid of it recently. Had been sitting for the better part of 2-3 years. Closing in on 250k and ran great. I barely took are of it either.

I'd check out Integras also. Think they stopped making them in 00 or 02. Look better than a Civic and run just as well. More powerful engine.

Honda Prelude is an option as well.

Yep Acura's are great cars. Family has a '95 Legend with 205k and it runs great. The thing is the resale is quite high on Acura's, but for a good reason.

As for BMW's I honestly don't think the quality is that great. It's a status symbol for most.

[Hotwheels]

If the Beemer is only around 3-5 grand it's probably a piece of shit.

Go here and if you are not scared off buy one;

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/index.html

Check out the preventative maintenance and do it yourself stuff.

My own opinion is most of the preventative stuff is crap, other than stabbing a new expansion tank in it as they are known to blow. And you do NOT want to overheat the motor, which is likely to happen if you lose the tank.

I do find it interesting that your other choice is a civic. Planning to JDM it or something?

If so, don't buy the Beemer.

They look gay as fuck slammed and shit.

PS-I picked up a bluetooth OBD-II reader that works with an app on my phone called Torque. Slick as shit as it will show you all kinds of interesting stuff. One of the options I have set on mine is a coolant temp gauge so I know exactly what the temp is. And, I programmed it to sound an alarm if the temp goes over 215 for some additional safety.

For the money you are looking to spend I'd probably buy a Grand Prix or something...

[Cincinnatus]

Awaiting el mechanico's arrival in this thread.

Between the two I'd probably go with the Honda.

[el mechanico]

A Civic is a tin box that gets you from point A to B but also could be turned into a high performance street machine with the benefit of it's light weight.

A 3 series is a solid built highway machine which requires more maintenance or does it???

I could make a list of everything that will break at what mileage.. Yup every single one does the exact thing. The beauty of this is the labor ovelaps if you do it all at once and it's a one day job but.... Nobody will go for it so they change one thing at a time which makes it seem like the car breaks alot. I'm talking 1k in parts and one days work. After that you'll get 60k trouble free miles on a car you bought with 70 to 100 k to start with. Like I said every single one has the same issues.

[LowerCaseG]

You will probably spend another 3-5k on the beamer in repairs within 18 months. Why don't you buy a cheap new car and finance it with 3-5k down. I bought a mazda 3, and I have done nothing but oil changes for 55k miles, well, I just got new tires but that's it. A mazda 2 is no gayer than a civic, and you can get into one for 13.5k probably. I used to always buy 2 thousand dollar cars thinking I was being thrifty. Buying a new car is the best money I ever spent. Or you can buy one slightly used with under 10k miles. That will save you a couple of grand and the used car warranties are actually better. Kia Fortes are really cheap too. Buy a manual because nobody else wants them, you can negotiate more, and they are usually $1000 less. Slightly better gas mileage on a manual.

The used car market is overvalued. There is better value in new cars under 25k.

[Tenerife]

The going rate for used BMWs from the early 2000s is about 4 or 5 grand. I agree that hondas are built like tanks.

Quote:

I do find it interesting that your other choice is a civic. Planning to JDM it or something?

The reason is that they are both the same price, but the BMW is a much more fashionable car.

[jimukr104]

Heard corollas are reliable..the MOST lol

[CaliforniaSupreme]

Civic takes the cake reliability wise.
BMWs are nice cars, but one that old will need too much upkeep, it'll become a headache. Parts can be scary expensive.

[RCP]

Yeah, older BMWs require a lot of maintenance. I've had a '94 318i for a couple of years now and I already had to deal with the radiator, battery, tires, and air filter all breaking down. And depending on where you live, BMW dealerships/parts can be pretty scarce.

I would suggest getting the civic, the fashion factor of owning an older BMW is just not worth it in comparison to the amount of maintenance expenditures you'll likely have to put into it.

[CaliforniaSupreme]

Oh yeah, beware of older M3s as well, the cost of ownership will be even higher. But SO much fun.
However, if the owner has solid records and the car has been through Inspection I and Inspection II, you could consider it.

[little wing]

A 2003 model E46 Coupe 328i with 6MT is what I would buy.
Looks good, loads of fun with a six banger, rear wheel drive, 50/50 weight distribution and manual transmission.

[CaliforniaSupreme]

Another bit of advice is avoid SMG transmissions, they're just going to become money pits, the pump itself is like $2500. Heed the advice and go for a 6 speed.

[Dr. Howard]

(10-06-2013 10:35 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

A Civic is a tin box that gets you from point A to B but also could be turned into a high performance street machine with the benefit of it's light weight.

A 3 series is a solid built highway machine which requires more maintenance or does it???

I could make a list of everything that will break at what mileage.. Yup every single one does the exact thing. The beauty of this is the labor ovelaps if you do it all at once and it's a one day job but.... Nobody will go for it so they change one thing at a time which makes it seem like the car breaks alot. I'm talking 1k in parts and one days work. After that you'll get 60k trouble free miles on a car you bought with 70 to 100 k to start with. Like I said every single one has the same issues.

This is good advice on the parts. Unless I buy a car from some equivalent car nutjob who has service records like myself then after I buy it I take it to a shop with a request to dump and change all fluids as well as the parts that are closest to the next major service interval ( I make that list, combined with an inspection of whats not so good). Its as close as I can get to pushing the 'reset' button on someone else's moderate maintenance choices.

[paninaro]

Look up the prices of common "wear" parts on both vehicles. Oil filter, brake pads, wiper blades, etc.

I'm guessing the BMW parts are more expensive than Honda parts, especially if it's OEM parts (which you may not need for common parts, but you may have no choice if it's less common like a timing belt, brake rotors, motor mount, etc).

[Hotwheels]

Don't buy BMW parts from the dealer. Get them online for a lot less. Just don't get cheap generic parts. Most parts sites will say if the part is OEM which is what you want. As long as you look around parts are not all that expensive for E46's.

ecstuning and bavauto are good, and there are many other sources out there.

[redwoodsandwaves]

Had an E36 328 about 6 years ago and it was a sick ass car. Sure there are problems that pop up, but they were mostly all superficial in my case, nothing major. The vacuum hoses are what I struggled with. Easy enough to change out though, just takes time and patience.

Go test drive a BMW, then drive a civic. World of difference. I've driven German because of that difference for a long time now.

And this is for anyone here who doesn't work on their vehicles -- be a man and get yourself a Bentley manual, get a little dirty, bust your knuckles up a bit, and learn how to work on a car.

[muc]

FWIW, I have a 5 series and I think they are quite reliable. Only problems I've had so far were brakes and the exhaust sensor. And there's many mechanics who know how fix that car. (Never go to a BMW-mecahnic, they will rip you off.) The engine runs very smoothly and the handling of a car is superb. And I've driven most German cars. (Because I was renting them non-stop when working as a consultant.) Best handling: BMW. Best comfort: Mercedes. Best price/comfort/handling ratio: Audi.

My Japan-experience is limited to Toyotas and Mazdas. Good cars, but no match for a BMW.

My advice: Take both for a test-drive. See what feels best. My guess: BMW. (I agree with redwoodsandwaves.)

[eradicator]

Ive got a 2004 civic and love it. It has 110k miles on it, and will probably get another 110k before I am done with it.